Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.

I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.

My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 18:58:42 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

"Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am
remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood sub floor. 3/4"
plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really
rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage.
Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands,
fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good
plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have
access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in
the middle of the joists.

I do not want to cut out the sub floor between the joists. Put in
blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly
because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And
there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New
flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.

My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the
basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I
need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged
plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to
go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim
coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for
a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other
ideas?"

How well is the flange attached, if it needs reinforcing you could do
it with the blocking underneath. If the flange rocks it will be a
problem later on, wax rings do seal but rocking causes problems with
sealing, which can lead to sewer gas causing a stink.

Leveling compound would work it will flow out flat just seal around
the pipe.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 18:58:42 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
>
>I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.

I'd just rip the subfloor up, block it, and replace the subfloor
between the two joists. It's not all that difficult. I'd not split a
sheet under the toilet.

>My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

That certainly wouldn't be my plan.

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:58:45 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
>
> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
>
> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but it would seem to be a lot easier just to cut out a square and replace the subfloor. You can reinforce the seams with blocking.

On 9/11/2022 8:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
>
> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
>
> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

I would replace the trotted wood. Who knows if it will continue to
deteriorate. Then use that sealer stuff on the new floor. IT MIGHT be
the RED stuff you paint on behind shower tile.

On 9/11/2022 8:58 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
>
> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
>
> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

would replace the trotted wood. Who knows if it will continue to
deteriorate. Then use that sealer stuff on the new floor. IT MIGHT be
the RED stuff you paint on behind shower tile.

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
>
> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
>
> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?

Maybe a picture would help.

Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood
back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the patch
for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the
joists/unsupported.

The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"

DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> writes:
>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com=
> wrote:
>
>> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking=
> on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new p=
>lywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams al=
>ong the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be viny=
>l sheet.=20
>>=20
>> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the ba=
>sement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to d=
>o something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top =
>smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a w=
>all is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as=
> good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And whic=
>h epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
>
>Maybe a picture would help.
>
>Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood=
>=20
>back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the p=
>atch=20
>for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the=20
>joists/unsupported.
>
>The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"

To use your solution (which I agree is better), Russell would need to
remove the flange. If ABS, that means cutting the waste pipe below
the flange far enough to support adding a coupling, a shorter length
of pipe and a new flange. If CI, it may be easier if you can melt
the lead/oakum and remove the old flange temporarily.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:17:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
> >
> > I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
> >
> > My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> Maybe a picture would help.
>
> Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood
> back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the patch
> for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the
> joists/unsupported.
>
> The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"

I was planning on the split to go around the drain pipe. Figured the plywood would provide better strength running length wise. 2-3 foot long by about 7 inches wide. Work both halves around the drain pipe from the sides. As opposed to your suggestion of putting full width, 15 inches wide, in front and behind the drain pipe. But once glued and screwed in place underneath, probably no difference in support. There has to be some cut in the patch piece underneath. At the circle for the drain pipe. Either across the joist bay or along the joist bay.

I need to go look at the job again. Get a better understanding of how water damaged the subfloor is. And whether the existing drain pipe flange can be secured in place. Or is the water damage already ruined the area around the flange. And evaluate how much access I have underneath and what gymnastics will be required to get wood up under the floor. It may be easiest after all to just cut everything out from up above. Put some support blocks along the joists under the floor. Should be easy to glue and screw those on. Then just lay the patch piece in from the top.

I'll keep you informed of the progress once I figure out more. Based upon the comments from you guys about things I had not thought about.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:01:16 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com=
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking=
> > on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new p=
> >lywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams al=
> >ong the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be viny=
> >l sheet.=20
> >>
> >> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the ba=
> >sement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to d=
> >o something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top =
> >smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a w=
> >all is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as=
> > good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And whic> >h epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> >
> >Maybe a picture would help.
> >
> >Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood=
> >=20
> >back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the p=
> >atch=20
> >for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the=20
> >joists/unsupported.
> >
> >The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"
> To use your solution (which I agree is better), Russell would need to
> remove the flange. If ABS, that means cutting the waste pipe below
> the flange far enough to support adding a coupling, a shorter length
> of pipe and a new flange. If CI, it may be easier if you can melt
> the lead/oakum and remove the old flange temporarily.

Its plastic waste pipe. I think. I don't really want to cut it. Its obviously not wide open and easy to get to. Its short and 90 degree elbows under the floor in the joist bay. Memory is bad at the moment. I think its plastic. Or maybe 6 inch copper. It is definitely not cast iron. No cast iron waste pipe.

The split instead of hole was to get the patch piece around the waste pipe from the sides, or front and back. I was always going to drill a hole for the drain pipe flange. But getting the patch around the pipe and flange required a cut of the hole. Either cut the hole length wise parallel to the joists, or side to side across perpendicular to the joists. Working under the assumption I was not going to take the drain pipe and flange out. Work the patch around the pipe while it was in place from underneath the floor.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 9/11/2022 8:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
> >
> > I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
> >
> > My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> I would replace the trotted wood. Who knows if it will continue to
> deteriorate. Then use that sealer stuff on the new floor. IT MIGHT be
> the RED stuff you paint on behind shower tile.

Right now I need to look at the project a lot more and maybe even take notes. And use the information provided here to evaluate things better. My first idea was maybe a spur of the moment off the top of my head idea. Maybe not the right one after all. Maybe, probably, doing it right by replacing the damaged wood might be the best way to do the job. Maybe. Thanks for the idea of the tile sealer. I'll look it up.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 2:01:16 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
> >On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com=
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking=
> > on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new p=
> >lywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams al=
> >ong the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be viny=
> >l sheet.=20
> >>=20
> >> My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the ba=
> >sement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to d=
> >o something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top =
> >smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a w=
> >all is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as=
> > good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And whic=
> >h epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> >
> >Maybe a picture would help.
> >
> >Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood=
> >=20
> >back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the p=
> >atch=20
> >for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the=20
> >joists/unsupported.
> >
> >The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"
> To use your solution (which I agree is better), Russell would need to
> remove the flange. If ABS, that means cutting the waste pipe below
> the flange far enough to support adding a coupling, a shorter length
> of pipe and a new flange. If CI, it may be easier if you can melt
> the lead/oakum and remove the old flange temporarily.

I don't necessarily agree. Both Danco and Pasco sell toilet flange repair rings
with screw tabs that allow you screw the ring to the subfloor outside of the
perimeter of the flange itself.

This is the Danco version and my Amazon page showed the Pasco 21013
at the top as an option.

https://www.amazon.com/Danco-88904-Toilet-Flange-Repair/dp/B00IA3QIGO

Granted the tabs don't extend very far out onto the subfloor, so it would require a
fairly precise hole, although I can think of a couple of ways to make sure that the
screws bite into a sufficient amount of wood to be secure.

The fact the OP can access the plywood from below makes that even easier.

Again, not knowing the exact situation/layout makes it hard to give a definitive
"Yes, they will work" proclamation, but it might be something worth looking at.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:11:32 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:17:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little.. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
> > >
> > > I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
> > >
> > > My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> > Maybe a picture would help.
> >
> > Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood
> > back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the patch
> > for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the
> > joists/unsupported.
> >
> > The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"
> I was planning on the split to go around the drain pipe. Figured the plywood would provide better strength running length wise. 2-3 foot long by about 7 inches wide. Work both halves around the drain pipe from the sides. As opposed to your suggestion of putting full width, 15 inches wide, in front and behind the drain pipe. But once glued and screwed in place underneath, probably no difference in support. There has to be some cut in the patch piece underneath. At the circle for the drain pipe. Either across the joist bay or along the joist bay.

Not necessarily. Look at my response to Scott about using the Danco or Pasco flange
repair rings, which come with screw tabs.

https://www.amazon.com/Danco-88904-Toilet-Flange-Repair/dp/B00IA3QIGO

Although, as you said, you have access from underneath, so a seam supported from
below, should be fine. In fact, even if you couldn't get underneath, a piece of wood
bridging the seam could be done from above. Just screw it to the bottom of one side
of the patch. leaving enough overhang to screw the other side of the patch to the brace
once it's in place.

Bottom line, I'd still remove the rotten wood. Just be sure that whatever wood you plan
to use ends up flush with the existing floor - before you get too far into the project. 3/4"
plywood isn't always 3/4", if you know what I mean.

>
> I need to go look at the job again. Get a better understanding of how water damaged the subfloor is. And whether the existing drain pipe flange can be secured in place. Or is the water damage already ruined the area around the flange. And evaluate how much access I have underneath and what gymnastics will be required to get wood up under the floor. It may be easiest after all to just cut everything out from up above. Put some support blocks along the joists under the floor. Should be easy to glue and screw those on. Then just lay the patch piece in from the top.
>
> I'll keep you informed of the progress once I figure out more. Based upon the comments from you guys about things I had not thought about.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:33:19 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:11:32 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:17:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
> > > >
> > > > I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
> > > >
> > > > My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> > > Maybe a picture would help.
> > >
> > > Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood
> > > back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the patch
> > > for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the
> > > joists/unsupported.
> > >
> > > The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"
> > I was planning on the split to go around the drain pipe. Figured the plywood would provide better strength running length wise. 2-3 foot long by about 7 inches wide. Work both halves around the drain pipe from the sides. As opposed to your suggestion of putting full width, 15 inches wide, in front and behind the drain pipe. But once glued and screwed in place underneath, probably no difference in support. There has to be some cut in the patch piece underneath. At the circle for the drain pipe. Either across the joist bay or along the joist bay.
> Not necessarily. Look at my response to Scott about using the Danco or Pasco flange
> repair rings, which come with screw tabs.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Danco-88904-Toilet-Flange-Repair/dp/B00IA3QIGO
>
> Although, as you said, you have access from underneath, so a seam supported from
> below, should be fine. In fact, even if you couldn't get underneath, a piece of wood
> bridging the seam could be done from above. Just screw it to the bottom of one side
> of the patch. leaving enough overhang to screw the other side of the patch to the brace
> once it's in place.
>
> Bottom line, I'd still remove the rotten wood. Just be sure that whatever wood you plan
> to use ends up flush with the existing floor - before you get too far into the project. 3/4"
> plywood isn't always 3/4", if you know what I mean.
> >
> > I need to go look at the job again. Get a better understanding of how water damaged the subfloor is. And whether the existing drain pipe flange can be secured in place. Or is the water damage already ruined the area around the flange. And evaluate how much access I have underneath and what gymnastics will be required to get wood up under the floor. It may be easiest after all to just cut everything out from up above. Put some support blocks along the joists under the floor. Should be easy to glue and screw those on. Then just lay the patch piece in from the top.
> >
> > I'll keep you informed of the progress once I figure out more. Based upon the comments from you guys about things I had not thought about.

Thanks for the links to flange repair rings. Not sure I need them or not. Right now I am going on memory. And as I have realized over the past number of years, my memory seems to not remember a lot of things. So I have to get back to the house and look at things a lot closer and think about what I should do. Also reassess how water damaged the floor is. And how much floor would need to be replaced. And is the flange attached to anything right now or is it floating in space? And which direction is the waste pipe coming from? Can I get lots of access to it to change it if need be? Things like that. Based on comments here, my initial idea of just putting a piece of plywood on the underside and trying to put a skim coat of epoxy on top to take care of the damaged subfloor may not be correct.

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 11:49:25 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:33:19 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:11:32 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:17:48 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:58:45 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo..com wrote:
> > > > > Carpentry question. Not a woodworking question. House bathroom I am remodeling. Stripped the floor down to the plywood subfloor. 3/4" plywood. Around the toilet it is sort of, kind of, but not really rotted out a little. 6 inches all around the toilet. Water damage. Top 1/4" or less is flaking and soft and you can pull up the strands, fibers. But underneath, from the basement, it looks like good plywood. No rot underneath. So its surface damage only. I have access from underneath in the basement. Toilet plumbing is right in the middle of the joists.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not want to cut out the subfloor between the joists. Put in blocking on the joists. Put a new piece of plywood on top. Partly because the new plywood would be split around the toilet flange. And there would be seams along the edges of the new plywood put in. New flooring to go in will be vinyl sheet.
> > > > >
> > > > > My plan is to glue and screw a sheet of 3/4" plywood underneath in the basement. Reinforce the damaged area from below. But I also think I need to do something on top too. Epoxy layer over the damaged plywood? Make the top smooth and solid for the new vinyl flooring to go on. With drywall when a wall is torn up and scarred, I just skim coat it with drywall mud and its as good as new. Would that work for a subfloor with epoxy skim coat? And which epoxy to use? Any other ideas?
> > > > Maybe a picture would help.
> > > >
> > > > Why would the plywood need to be split? Can't you cut the existing plywood
> > > > back to mid-joist on both slides of the flange and then cut a hole in the patch
> > > > for the flange? Use blocking for any seams that are perpendicular to the
> > > > joists/unsupported.
> > > >
> > > > The main question is "Why a split in the patch and not a hole?"
> > > I was planning on the split to go around the drain pipe. Figured the plywood would provide better strength running length wise. 2-3 foot long by about 7 inches wide. Work both halves around the drain pipe from the sides.. As opposed to your suggestion of putting full width, 15 inches wide, in front and behind the drain pipe. But once glued and screwed in place underneath, probably no difference in support. There has to be some cut in the patch piece underneath. At the circle for the drain pipe. Either across the joist bay or along the joist bay.
> > Not necessarily. Look at my response to Scott about using the Danco or Pasco flange
> > repair rings, which come with screw tabs.
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Danco-88904-Toilet-Flange-Repair/dp/B00IA3QIGO
> >
> > Although, as you said, you have access from underneath, so a seam supported from
> > below, should be fine. In fact, even if you couldn't get underneath, a piece of wood
> > bridging the seam could be done from above. Just screw it to the bottom of one side
> > of the patch. leaving enough overhang to screw the other side of the patch to the brace
> > once it's in place.
> >
> > Bottom line, I'd still remove the rotten wood. Just be sure that whatever wood you plan
> > to use ends up flush with the existing floor - before you get too far into the project. 3/4"
> > plywood isn't always 3/4", if you know what I mean.
> > >
> > > I need to go look at the job again. Get a better understanding of how water damaged the subfloor is. And whether the existing drain pipe flange can be secured in place. Or is the water damage already ruined the area around the flange. And evaluate how much access I have underneath and what gymnastics will be required to get wood up under the floor. It may be easiest after all to just cut everything out from up above. Put some support blocks along the joists under the floor. Should be easy to glue and screw those on. Then just lay the patch piece in from the top.
> > >
> > > I'll keep you informed of the progress once I figure out more. Based upon the comments from you guys about things I had not thought about.
> Thanks for the links to flange repair rings. Not sure I need them or not. Right now I am going on memory. And as I have realized over the past number of years, my memory seems to not remember a lot of things. So I have to get back to the house and look at things a lot closer and think about what I should do. Also reassess how water damaged the floor is. And how much floor would need to be replaced. And is the flange attached to anything right now or is it floating in space? And which direction is the waste pipe coming from? Can I get lots of access to it to change it if need be? Things like that. Based on comments here, my initial idea of just putting a piece of plywood on the underside and trying to put a skim coat of epoxy on top to take care of the damaged subfloor may not be correct.

Please be aware that the only reason I mentioned the repair ring is because
the ones I showed have tabs for screws that are outside the perimeter of the
flange itself.

I'm *not* saying that your flange may need to be repaired. I'm suggesting
a possible solution to your "seam concern". The screw tabs on the repair
ring may allow you to use the "single piece of plywood with a hole" method.

With the repair ring the subfloor doesn't need to go under the flange since the
repair ring can reach out onto the patch.

Good luck Keep us updated.

I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.

I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.

Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.

But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.

I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:11:24 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
>
>I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
>
>Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.

The old flange probably has been removed, maybe it is still on the old
toilet because it would not unbolt? The tapered cone sounds like a
seal for a non glued flange screwed to the disintegrated plywood.

>But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.

Make sure the waste pipe is half a bubble off and secure it so it
won't move would be my fix to make just a bit better.

>I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.

Four inch PVC would fit through a four and a half hole, so if you have
a hole saw that size would save a seam around the pipe.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 7:27:48 PM UTC-5, Markem618 wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:11:24 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> >
> >I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> >
> >Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.
> The old flange probably has been removed, maybe it is still on the old
> toilet because it would not unbolt? The tapered cone sounds like a
> seal for a non glued flange screwed to the disintegrated plywood.

Just talked to my brother and the old metal flange was tossed out into the yard by my mother. I'll look at it for fun when I get back there. Yes the rubber tapered cone is designed to fit into the hole on the bottom of the toilet. With wax ring to seal it completely. I will buy a new metal flange to go around the tapered rubber cone. After putting in new subfloor so there is something solid to screw to.

But I was just unaware of this method of installing a toilet. Flange not attached to the drain pipe? So the toilet is not bolted solidly to the drain pipe? Seems weird to me. All the toilets I have installed in the past had the flange, where the T bolts go, attached to the drain pipe. So there was a mechanical connection between the toilet and the drain pipe. With the wax to seal it up for gases. But it was all mechanically connected. But with this method, there is no mechanical attachment between the toilet and the pipe. Seems odd to me.

> >But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> Make sure the waste pipe is half a bubble off and secure it so it
> won't move would be my fix to make just a bit better.

Assume by "half a bubble off" you mean the bubble in the level is pointing so the drain pipe is sloping downwards in the right direction. I will definitely check the slope and make sure the drain pipe is secured from every angle.

> >I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> Four inch PVC would fit through a four and a half hole, so if you have
> a hole saw that size would save a seam around the pipe.

4 and 1/8" hole saw. Just installed some round electrical boxes in the garage ceiling and that size was perfect. May have to use a jigsaw to make the hole a little bigger to fit over the drain pipe cone thing sticking up through the floor a little bit. Or just buy the right size hole saw. That's probably the better idea.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 20:55:49 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>But I was just unaware of this method of installing a toilet. Flange not attached to the drain pipe? So the toilet is not bolted solidly to the drain pipe? Seems weird to me. All the toilets I have installed in the past had the flange, where the T bolts go, attached to the drain pipe. So there was a mechanical connection between the toilet and the drain pipe. With the wax to seal it up for gases. But it was all mechanically connected. But with this method, there is no mechanical attachment between the toilet and the pipe. Seems odd to me.

I have seen it done on TV, but have never run into one in life.
Correct on the level, carpenters centered, plumbers a half off.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
>
> I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall.. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
>
> Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.
>
> But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
>
> I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.

Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
was this type of toilet?

https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9

Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.

Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:13:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> >
> > I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> >
> > Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.
> >
> > But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement.. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> >
> > I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
> was this type of toilet?
>
> https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9

The old toilet is not like the ones shown in your link. I will have to look at the toilet again, its outside on the grass, to see if it looks normal. I assume it is a regular toilet. Waste out on the bottom that sits over a regular 4" drain pipe and flange with a wax ring. Normal. I will measure the pipe when I get back over there. Pretty sure its 4", but I will measure.

>
> Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
> broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
> ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.
>
> Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?

I will try to take a picture of the waste pipe in the floor and figure out how to post it. Hopefully. I have not removed the rubber cone. That is generally not something you happily run your hands over. But I will probably have to monkey with it. The drain pipe is plastic. But no flange was attached and then cut off. No.

The house is from the 1970s. It is one of those build in a factory houses. Where they build the two halves and truck them to the site and then lift them onto the basement foundation with a crane and then bolt the two halves together. And finish the very top of the roof ridge with shingles. So when it was built the bathrooms were finished except maybe the toilets and maybe sinks were not installed or hooked up. And then a plumber came in after the house was set on the foundation and did all the final water and drain pipe running in the basement. And maybe electrical connections too. The basement joists are covered on both sides with plywood. And the finish plumber cut out chunks of the plywood to run the pipes up to the bathrooms where they needed to be. The water pipes to the bathroom sinks and toilet are straight up through the floor. Not into the walls and then the pipe/valves out of the wall. A hole for the water pipe, and the toilet drain, straight up through the floor. So maybe it was easier and quicker to just drill a circle for the toilet drain pipe. Put the pipe up through the floor, put a rubber cone on it. Then screw a separate flange to the subfloor. Call it done. Put the toilet and wax ring on it. The bathroom sink did have the drain out of the wall. But it was a very big hole in the drywall. So I can imagine when the sink drain was hooked up, the plumber busted a huge hole in the drywall and used a long drill bit to drill down to the basement. Then the guy in the basement used a hole saw to make a big hole for the drain pipe that went up through the base plate of the wall and into the wall cavity.

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:09:27 AM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:13:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> > >
> > > I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> > >
> > > Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.
> > >
> > > But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> > >
> > > I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> > Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
> > was this type of toilet?
> >
> > https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9
> The old toilet is not like the ones shown in your link. I will have to look at the toilet again, its outside on the grass, to see if it looks normal.. I assume it is a regular toilet. Waste out on the bottom that sits over a regular 4" drain pipe and flange with a wax ring. Normal. I will measure the pipe when I get back over there. Pretty sure its 4", but I will measure.
> >
> > Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
> > broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
> > ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.
> >
> > Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?
> I will try to take a picture of the waste pipe in the floor and figure out how to post it. Hopefully.

You can create a free account at imgur.com, upload/drag and drop images, grab the "direct link"
and post it back here. No one here would need to register to see the image..

They have a desktop and smartphone app. Real easy to use. Shallow learning curve.

The main issue with imgur is that there is also a section where users post public images, memes,
videos, etc. The posts are then followed by comments. The reason that that is an issue is because
it's as bad as (if not worse than) YouTube as far as sucking you in and wasting vast amounts
of your time. DAMHIKT

> I have not removed the rubber cone. That is generally not something you happily run your hands over. But I will probably have to monkey with it. The drain pipe is plastic. But no flange was attached and then cut off. No.
>
> The house is from the 1970s. It is one of those build in a factory houses.. Where they build the two halves and truck them to the site and then lift them onto the basement foundation with a crane and then bolt the two halves together. And finish the very top of the roof ridge with shingles. So when it was built the bathrooms were finished except maybe the toilets and maybe sinks were not installed or hooked up. And then a plumber came in after the house was set on the foundation and did all the final water and drain pipe running in the basement. And maybe electrical connections too. The basement joists are covered on both sides with plywood. And the finish plumber cut out chunks of the plywood to run the pipes up to the bathrooms where they needed to be. The water pipes to the bathroom sinks and toilet are straight up through the floor. Not into the walls and then the pipe/valves out of the wall. A hole for the water pipe, and the toilet drain, straight up through the floor. So maybe it was easier and quicker to just drill a circle for the toilet drain pipe. Put the pipe up through the floor, put a rubber cone on it. Then screw a separate flange to the subfloor. Call it done. Put the toilet and wax ring on it. The bathroom sink did have the drain out of the wall. But it was a very big hole in the drywall. So I can imagine when the sink drain was hooked up, the plumber busted a huge hole in the drywall and used a long drill bit to drill down to the basement. Then the guy in the basement used a hole saw to make a big hole for the drain pipe that went up through the base plate of the wall and into the wall cavity.

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:09:27 AM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:13:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> > >
> > > I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> > >
> > > Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down.
> > >
> > > But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> > >
> > > I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> > Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
> > was this type of toilet?
> >
> > https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9
> The old toilet is not like the ones shown in your link. I will have to look at the toilet again, its outside on the grass, to see if it looks normal.. I assume it is a regular toilet. Waste out on the bottom that sits over a regular 4" drain pipe and flange with a wax ring. Normal. I will measure the pipe when I get back over there. Pretty sure its 4", but I will measure.
> >
> > Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
> > broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
> > ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.
> >
> > Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?
> I will try to take a picture of the waste pipe in the floor and figure out how to post it. Hopefully. I have not removed the rubber cone. That is generally not something you happily run your hands over. But I will probably have to monkey with it. The drain pipe is plastic. But no flange was attached and then cut off. No.
>
> The house is from the 1970s. It is one of those build in a factory houses.. Where they build the two halves and truck them to the site and then lift them onto the basement foundation with a crane and then bolt the two halves together. And finish the very top of the roof ridge with shingles. So when it was built the bathrooms were finished except maybe the toilets and maybe sinks were not installed or hooked up. And then a plumber came in after the house was set on the foundation and did all the final water and drain pipe running in the basement. And maybe electrical connections too. The basement joists are covered on both sides with plywood. And the finish plumber cut out chunks of the plywood to run the pipes up to the bathrooms where they needed to be. The water pipes to the bathroom sinks and toilet are straight up through the floor. Not into the walls and then the pipe/valves out of the wall. A hole for the water pipe, and the toilet drain, straight up through the floor. So maybe it was easier and quicker to just drill a circle for the toilet drain pipe. Put the pipe up through the floor, put a rubber cone on it. Then screw a separate flange to the subfloor. Call it done. Put the toilet and wax ring on it. The bathroom sink did have the drain out of the wall. But it was a very big hole in the drywall. So I can imagine when the sink drain was hooked up, the plumber busted a huge hole in the drywall and used a long drill bit to drill down to the basement. Then the guy in the basement used a hole saw to make a big hole for the drain pipe that went up through the base plate of the wall and into the wall cavity.

Lets hope this works. Below are hopefully images from imgur.com. I am not sure which link is which picture. So I will add a description of each picture and count on you matching the description up to the right picture.

https://i.imgur.com/cKOTQ0p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HJSU2Py.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aVzjyzg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NobbGZc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vux8U3y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/orbwV8N.jpg

Pic 1: Toilet pipe sticking up through floor into bathroom. The rot of the wood does not show up as rotted as it really is. And the picture makes it seem like the hole for the pipe is a good fit. Its not. The rubber cap on top isn't really a cone. Its flat rubber on top of the white plastic pipe funnel.
Pic 2: Bigger picture of where the toilet will sit. Tape measure to give a sense of distance. Wood is rotted.
Pic 3: Whole bathroom. Or where the toilet will sit and where the new vanity will sit. Shows the waste pipe coming out of the wall and the water pipes coming up through the floor. Bathroom was repainted in the past.
Pic 4: Underside of the bathroom from the basement. Looking up into the floor joists. Wood around the pipe going through the floor is rotted all around.
Pic 5: Bigger picture from underneath and the basement. The other PVC black pipe going up is into the wall I think and catches the sink drains.
Pic 6: Even bigger picture. Showing the drain system under the joists in the basement. The second toilet drain in the other bathroom is at the end of the white plastic pipe. Its not shown in the picture.

From the pictures it looks like I will replace all the subfloor above the drain pipe sticking up through the floor. Side to side in the joist bay and a couple inches in front of the toilet pipe. And back to the drywall. 12" x 18" total I think. And it looks like I have enough room to cut the vertical 4" pipe (white) and put a correct drain flange on top of the subfloor in the bathroom. No separate flange and separate pipe sticking up through the floor. I'll glue in one of the normal flanges where the flange is screwed to the floor and the whole thing is glued to the pipe. As was done in the other bathroom but not this one for some reason.

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 7:51:30 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:09:27 AM UTC-5, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:13:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> > > >
> > > > I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part.. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> > > >
> > > > Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask.. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down..
> > > >
> > > > But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> > > Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
> > > was this type of toilet?
> > >
> > > https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9
> > The old toilet is not like the ones shown in your link. I will have to look at the toilet again, its outside on the grass, to see if it looks normal. I assume it is a regular toilet. Waste out on the bottom that sits over a regular 4" drain pipe and flange with a wax ring. Normal. I will measure the pipe when I get back over there. Pretty sure its 4", but I will measure.
> > >
> > > Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
> > > broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
> > > ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.
> > >
> > > Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?
> > I will try to take a picture of the waste pipe in the floor and figure out how to post it. Hopefully. I have not removed the rubber cone. That is generally not something you happily run your hands over. But I will probably have to monkey with it. The drain pipe is plastic. But no flange was attached and then cut off. No.
> >
> > The house is from the 1970s. It is one of those build in a factory houses. Where they build the two halves and truck them to the site and then lift them onto the basement foundation with a crane and then bolt the two halves together. And finish the very top of the roof ridge with shingles. So when it was built the bathrooms were finished except maybe the toilets and maybe sinks were not installed or hooked up. And then a plumber came in after the house was set on the foundation and did all the final water and drain pipe running in the basement. And maybe electrical connections too. The basement joists are covered on both sides with plywood. And the finish plumber cut out chunks of the plywood to run the pipes up to the bathrooms where they needed to be. The water pipes to the bathroom sinks and toilet are straight up through the floor. Not into the walls and then the pipe/valves out of the wall. A hole for the water pipe, and the toilet drain, straight up through the floor. So maybe it was easier and quicker to just drill a circle for the toilet drain pipe. Put the pipe up through the floor, put a rubber cone on it. Then screw a separate flange to the subfloor. Call it done. Put the toilet and wax ring on it. The bathroom sink did have the drain out of the wall. But it was a very big hole in the drywall. So I can imagine when the sink drain was hooked up, the plumber busted a huge hole in the drywall and used a long drill bit to drill down to the basement. Then the guy in the basement used a hole saw to make a big hole for the drain pipe that went up through the base plate of the wall and into the wall cavity.
> Lets hope this works. Below are hopefully images from imgur.com. I am not sure which link is which picture. So I will add a description of each picture and count on you matching the description up to the right picture.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/cKOTQ0p.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/HJSU2Py.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/aVzjyzg.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/NobbGZc.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/vux8U3y.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/orbwV8N.jpg
>
> Pic 1: Toilet pipe sticking up through floor into bathroom. The rot of the wood does not show up as rotted as it really is. And the picture makes it seem like the hole for the pipe is a good fit. Its not. The rubber cap on top isn't really a cone. Its flat rubber on top of the white plastic pipe funnel.
> Pic 2: Bigger picture of where the toilet will sit. Tape measure to give a sense of distance. Wood is rotted.
> Pic 3: Whole bathroom. Or where the toilet will sit and where the new vanity will sit. Shows the waste pipe coming out of the wall and the water pipes coming up through the floor. Bathroom was repainted in the past.
> Pic 4: Underside of the bathroom from the basement. Looking up into the floor joists. Wood around the pipe going through the floor is rotted all around.
> Pic 5: Bigger picture from underneath and the basement. The other PVC black pipe going up is into the wall I think and catches the sink drains.
> Pic 6: Even bigger picture. Showing the drain system under the joists in the basement. The second toilet drain in the other bathroom is at the end of the white plastic pipe. Its not shown in the picture.
>
> From the pictures it looks like I will replace all the subfloor above the drain pipe sticking up through the floor. Side to side in the joist bay and a couple inches in front of the toilet pipe. And back to the drywall. 12" x 18" total I think. And it looks like I have enough room to cut the vertical 4" pipe (white) and put a correct drain flange on top of the subfloor in the bathroom. No separate flange and separate pipe sticking up through the floor. I'll glue in one of the normal flanges where the flange is screwed to the floor and the whole thing is glued to the pipe. As was done in the other bathroom but not this one for some reason.

Forgot to add it, but in the second link, the 7" and 5" written on the floor in black marker is how far from the center of the drain pipe to the joists on each side. Pipe is not perfectly centered in the joist bay. And this joist bay is not exactly 16" on center either. More like 13.5" on center. Not that it makes any difference.

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 7:51:30 PM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:09:27 AM UTC-5, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:13:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > I was able to get back over to the house and reassess things. Apparently having the subfloor exposed to the air resulted in a lot more damage over the past week. Amazing. I am positive the subfloor was not that damaged last time I looked at it. It will have to be replaced.
> > > >
> > > > I began the process. By drilling a couple holes in the floor near the drywall to mark out the back end of the patch. Looks like all the wood behind the toilet pipe in the joist bay will have to come out. Back to the drywall. And about 1 inch in front of the toilet pipe. That is the wood part.. Easy enough to figure out. And I have to cut the new plywood subfloor around the toilet pipe and the water pipe sticking up through the floor. But that is just cutting and gluing and screwing pieces in place.
> > > >
> > > > Now the odd part. The toilet drain. Sticks up through the floor about 1/4" or so. But it has no flange on it. Where you put the T bolts that move back and forth and go up into the porcelain toilet. Its just a 4 inch pipe, plastic, with a rubber cone on top. About 1 inch or so thick rubber cone on top of the pipe. Tapered rubber cone. Obviously that is where the toilet sits down onto and the wax ring. But the flange for the T bolts is completely separate. I did not tear the toilet out so cannot remember if there was a separate ring that was also torn up. Assume so but I will have to ask.. Buying a separate metal flange ring is no big deal. Easy to screw it down..
> > > >
> > > > But I am wondering about the support for the waste pipe in the basement. It has some metal straps underneath it to keep it in place. But its not really super solid. You can bang on the waste pipe and move it a little bit. I have never dealt with toilet drains that did not have the flange built into the pipe itself. Glued on fitting that has the screw holding slots. Fitting is glued onto the waste pipe. Then you screw the fitting into the subfloor. I can and likely will have to buy some more support straps and secure the waste pipe even more. And maybe add some wood blocking to really secure the waste pipe in place so it cannot possibly move.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure it works. Having the flange that capture the T bolts completely separate from the waste pipe itself. But its different than what I am experienced with.
> > > Have you measure the rough-in of the waste pipe? Any chance it
> > > was this type of toilet?
> > >
> > > https://images.app.goo.gl/bPk7gh8sa4WDex3N9
> > The old toilet is not like the ones shown in your link. I will have to look at the toilet again, its outside on the grass, to see if it looks normal. I assume it is a regular toilet. Waste out on the bottom that sits over a regular 4" drain pipe and flange with a wax ring. Normal. I will measure the pipe when I get back over there. Pretty sure its 4", but I will measure.
> > >
> > > Have you removed the rubber cone? Maybe the old plastic flange was
> > > broken and removed. Then the cone was stuck in the pipe and a repair
> > > ring was screwed to the floor as a separate piece.
> > >
> > > Any chance you could post a picture of what you currently have?
> > I will try to take a picture of the waste pipe in the floor and figure out how to post it. Hopefully. I have not removed the rubber cone. That is generally not something you happily run your hands over. But I will probably have to monkey with it. The drain pipe is plastic. But no flange was attached and then cut off. No.
> >
> > The house is from the 1970s. It is one of those build in a factory houses. Where they build the two halves and truck them to the site and then lift them onto the basement foundation with a crane and then bolt the two halves together. And finish the very top of the roof ridge with shingles. So when it was built the bathrooms were finished except maybe the toilets and maybe sinks were not installed or hooked up. And then a plumber came in after the house was set on the foundation and did all the final water and drain pipe running in the basement. And maybe electrical connections too. The basement joists are covered on both sides with plywood. And the finish plumber cut out chunks of the plywood to run the pipes up to the bathrooms where they needed to be. The water pipes to the bathroom sinks and toilet are straight up through the floor. Not into the walls and then the pipe/valves out of the wall. A hole for the water pipe, and the toilet drain, straight up through the floor. So maybe it was easier and quicker to just drill a circle for the toilet drain pipe. Put the pipe up through the floor, put a rubber cone on it. Then screw a separate flange to the subfloor. Call it done. Put the toilet and wax ring on it. The bathroom sink did have the drain out of the wall. But it was a very big hole in the drywall. So I can imagine when the sink drain was hooked up, the plumber busted a huge hole in the drywall and used a long drill bit to drill down to the basement. Then the guy in the basement used a hole saw to make a big hole for the drain pipe that went up through the base plate of the wall and into the wall cavity.
> Lets hope this works. Below are hopefully images from imgur.com. I am not sure which link is which picture. So I will add a description of each picture and count on you matching the description up to the right picture.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/cKOTQ0p.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/HJSU2Py.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/aVzjyzg.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/NobbGZc.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/vux8U3y.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/orbwV8N.jpg
>
> Pic 1: Toilet pipe sticking up through floor into bathroom. The rot of the wood does not show up as rotted as it really is. And the picture makes it seem like the hole for the pipe is a good fit. Its not. The rubber cap on top isn't really a cone. Its flat rubber on top of the white plastic pipe funnel.
> Pic 2: Bigger picture of where the toilet will sit. Tape measure to give a sense of distance. Wood is rotted.
> Pic 3: Whole bathroom. Or where the toilet will sit and where the new vanity will sit. Shows the waste pipe coming out of the wall and the water pipes coming up through the floor. Bathroom was repainted in the past.
> Pic 4: Underside of the bathroom from the basement. Looking up into the floor joists. Wood around the pipe going through the floor is rotted all around.
> Pic 5: Bigger picture from underneath and the basement. The other PVC black pipe going up is into the wall I think and catches the sink drains.
> Pic 6: Even bigger picture. Showing the drain system under the joists in the basement. The second toilet drain in the other bathroom is at the end of the white plastic pipe. Its not shown in the picture.
>
> From the pictures it looks like I will replace all the subfloor above the drain pipe sticking up through the floor. Side to side in the joist bay and a couple inches in front of the toilet pipe. And back to the drywall. 12" x 18" total I think. And it looks like I have enough room to cut the vertical 4" pipe (white) and put a correct drain flange on top of the subfloor in the bathroom. No separate flange and separate pipe sticking up through the floor. I'll glue in one of the normal flanges where the flange is screwed to the floor and the whole thing is glued to the pipe. As was done in the other bathroom but not this one for some reason.

Big thanks to DerbyDad03 for telling me about imgur.com and especially about the "Direct Link" choice. I never would have figured out that was the correct choice of all the options.