On 3/28/2024 10:29 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <660613b5$3$1258331$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
> esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Correct, that is my point. That should not be able to happen. IMO, it
>> is a design flaw to not have at lease some redundancy. If the engine in
>> your car fails, you can still steer and brake, though it may take more
>> effort.
>>
>>
>
> I do not know about the ships but some airplanes are 'fly by wire' and
> if something hapens to the computer or wire links there is no direct
> control for them.
>
> Do the all electric cars still have mechanical breaks or do they have
> some electrical breaking system where a fuse blowes or a wire comes
> loose can they stop?
>
>
>
>

Does fly-by-wire still use hydraulics?
Fly-by-wire -
For this reason, most fly-by-wire systems incorporate either redundant
computers (triplex, quadruplex etc.), some kind of mechanical or
hydraulic backup or a combination of both

EVs have regenerative brakes, but also have standard mechanical brakes.

In article <66062b89$5$1258341$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
esp@snet.xxx says...
>
> Does fly-by-wire still use hydraulics?
> Fly-by-wire -
> For this reason, most fly-by-wire systems incorporate either redundant
> computers (triplex, quadruplex etc.), some kind of mechanical or
> hydraulic backup or a combination of both
>
>
> EVs have regenerative brakes, but also have standard mechanical brakes.
>
>

Fly by wire is when the controls are just electrical wires connecting
the stearing wheel (so to speak) to a computer. There is no mechanical
linkage to the controls. One airplane crashed even though it had either
3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
all the lines.

What is the name of those airplanes that crashed not too long ago, 737
max ? Computer glich and the crew did not switch that computer part to
manual or bypass.

On 3/28/2024 10:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <66062b89$5$1258341$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
> esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Does fly-by-wire still use hydraulics?
>> Fly-by-wire -
>> For this reason, most fly-by-wire systems incorporate either redundant
>> computers (triplex, quadruplex etc.), some kind of mechanical or
>> hydraulic backup or a combination of both
>>
>>
>> EVs have regenerative brakes, but also have standard mechanical brakes.
>>
>>
>
> Fly by wire is when the controls are just electrical wires connecting
> the stearing wheel (so to speak) to a computer. There is no mechanical
> linkage to the controls. One airplane crashed even though it had either
> 3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
> all the lines.
>
> What is the name of those airplanes that crashed not too long ago, 737
> max ? Computer glich and the crew did not switch that computer part to
> manual or bypass.

Does not matter how much backup you have if the crew does not handle it
properly.

Another plane recently had a problem. The computer for the auto-pilot
has to be rebooted every 200 some hours. Ooopsie, forgot to do it.

Then if you bump the seat switch you can do a dive and injur 50 people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/15/latam-dreamliner-dive-boeing-switch/

On 3/28/2024 8:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <66062b89$5$1258341$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
> esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Does fly-by-wire still use hydraulics?
>> Fly-by-wire -
>> For this reason, most fly-by-wire systems incorporate either redundant
>> computers (triplex, quadruplex etc.), some kind of mechanical or
>> hydraulic backup or a combination of both
>>
>>
>> EVs have regenerative brakes, but also have standard mechanical brakes.
>>
>>
>
> Fly by wire is when the controls are just electrical wires connecting
> the stearing wheel (so to speak) to a computer. There is no mechanical
> linkage to the controls.
>
> One airplane crashed even though it had either
> 3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
> all the lines.

That was this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
Was hydraulic control, not fly by wire. As you said all 3 hydraulic
systems were cut when one of three engines failed shooting fan blades
out. The only control of direction and altitude was by controlling the
throttle of 2 remaining engines. Amazingly they made it to an airport
but crashed. Over half of passengers and crew survived.

>
> What is the name of those airplanes that crashed not too long ago, 737
> max ? Computer glich and the crew did not switch that computer part to
> manual or bypass.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:35:25 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 3/28/2024 6:39 PM, Fishrrman wrote:
>> On 3/28/24 8:30 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>>> Anyone know if the Dali has horizontal thrusters?
>>
>> It does have them, but apparently with the loss of power they were
>> unavailable in "the moment of need"...
>
>
>I'm a bit surprised by that. Sure, loss of power by the main engine is
>a problem, but I'd have thought there would be a secondary source for
>things like rudder or even thrusters.
>
>Just like manufacturing plants. We always had two boilers, two
>compressors, etc. Rare we ever had to 100% stop, aside from a flood and
>a fire.
With the reputation of that ship it was likely running on the backup
system already.

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 22:29:29 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

>In article <660613b5$3$1258331$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Correct, that is my point. That should not be able to happen. IMO, it
>> is a design flaw to not have at lease some redundancy. If the engine in
>> your car fails, you can still steer and brake, though it may take more
>> effort.
>>
>>
>
>I do not know about the ships but some airplanes are 'fly by wire' and
>if something hapens to the computer or wire links there is no direct
>control for them.
>
>Do the all electric cars still have mechanical breaks or do they have
>some electrical breaking system where a fuse blowes or a wire comes
>loose can they stop?
>
>
>
They have regen braking - but still have a friction braking system.
What scares me more ie electric power steering - not electric
hydraulic

On 3/28/2024 7:35 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 3/28/2024 6:39 PM, Fishrrman wrote:
>> On 3/28/24 8:30 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
>>> Anyone know if the Dali has horizontal thrusters?
>>
>> It does have them, but apparently with the loss of power they were
>> unavailable in "the moment of need"...
>
>
> I'm a bit surprised by that. Sure, loss of power by the main engine is
> a problem, but I'd have thought there would be a secondary source for
> things like rudder or even thrusters.
>
> Just like manufacturing plants. We always had two boilers, two
> compressors, etc. Rare we ever had to 100% stop, aside from a flood and
> a fire.

Absence of redundancy in vital engineering spaces certainly increases
vulnerability. However, if the diesel fuel for all generators came from
the same source and it was contaminated, you've just obviated the
utility of having redundancy. Also, we don't know how the electrical
circuits and/or hydraulics were isolated or were they all interconnected
through a single point of vulnerability.

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> writes:
>In article <660613b5$3$1258331$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Correct, that is my point. That should not be able to happen. IMO, it
>> is a design flaw to not have at lease some redundancy. If the engine in
>> your car fails, you can still steer and brake, though it may take more
>> effort.
>>
>>
>
>I do not know about the ships but some airplanes are 'fly by wire' and
>if something hapens to the computer or wire links there is no direct
>control for them.

You don't know much about aircraft either. There are at least
two backup systems (Direct Law and Alternate Law).

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> writes:
>In article <66062b89$5$1258341$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>esp@snet.xxx says...
>>
>> Does fly-by-wire still use hydraulics?
>> Fly-by-wire -
>> For this reason, most fly-by-wire systems incorporate either redundant
>> computers (triplex, quadruplex etc.), some kind of mechanical or
>> hydraulic backup or a combination of both
>>
>>
>> EVs have regenerative brakes, but also have standard mechanical brakes.
>>
>>
>
>Fly by wire is when the controls are just electrical wires connecting
>the stearing wheel (so to speak) to a computer. There is no mechanical
>linkage to the controls.

That's all incorrect.

> One airplane crashed even though it had either
>3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
>all the lines.

That was a DC-10 and the engine mounted in the tail lost a blade
which cut all three lines. The aircraft was able to land, sort of.

Long before "fly-by-wire".

>
>What is the name of those airplanes that crashed not too long ago, 737
>max ? Computer glich and the crew did not switch that computer part to
>manual or bypass.

No. The MAX issue was a combination of bad design, bad
engineering, stupid decisions by boeing and bad piloting;
all were necessary for both fatal crashes.

In article <ViBNN.165498$zF_1.52575@fx18.iad>, scott@slp53.sl.home
says...
>
> > One airplane crashed even though it had either
> >3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
> >all the lines.
>
> That was a DC-10 and the engine mounted in the tail lost a blade
> which cut all three lines. The aircraft was able to land, sort of.
>
> Long before "fly-by-wire".
>
>
>

That was the point I was trying to make. That no matter that there were
3 lines to backup each other it does not matter if everything fails.
The plane was able to make it to land due to the skill of the pilot but
I think it sort of crashed and not all survived.

The plane that went down in the Hudson was cased by a flight of birds,
something that could not be backed up against. Due to the skill of the
pilot he landed safely in the river and all survived.

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> writes:
>In article <ViBNN.165498$zF_1.52575@fx18.iad>, scott@slp53.sl.home
>says...
>>
>> > One airplane crashed even though it had either
>> >3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
>> >all the lines.
>>
>> That was a DC-10 and the engine mounted in the tail lost a blade
>> which cut all three lines. The aircraft was able to land, sort of.
>>
>> Long before "fly-by-wire".
>>
>>
>>
>
>That was the point I was trying to make. That no matter that there were
>3 lines to backup each other it does not matter if everything fails.

Except that point has nothing to do with 'fly-by-wire' which is designed
with three levels of independent backup. Yes, the DC-10 design was flawed,
and you'll note that no aircraft designed subsequently has had that same flaw.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <ViBNN.165498$zF_1.52575@fx18.iad>, scott@slp53.sl.home
> says...
>>
>>> One airplane crashed even though it had either
>>> 3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
>>> all the lines.
>>
>> That was a DC-10 and the engine mounted in the tail lost a blade
>> which cut all three lines. The aircraft was able to land, sort of.
>>
>> Long before "fly-by-wire".
>>
>>
>>
>
> That was the point I was trying to make. That no matter that there were
> 3 lines to backup each other it does not matter if everything fails.
> The plane was able to make it to land due to the skill of the pilot but
> I think it sort of crashed and not all survived.
>
> The plane that went down in the Hudson was cased by a flight of birds,
> something that could not be backed up against. Due to the skill of the
> pilot he landed safely in the river and all survived.
>

Exactly!

Flying is easy and boring...until really bad weather on final or shit
starts breaking.

On Fri, 29 Mar 24 20:09:14 UTC, Juanita Smith
<juanita.smith@inter.webz> wrote:

>Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <ViBNN.165498$zF_1.52575@fx18.iad>, scott@slp53.sl.home
>> says...
>>>
>>>> One airplane crashed even though it had either
>>>> 3 or 4 hydraulic lines going up the tail and something hapened that cut
>>>> all the lines.
>>>
>>> That was a DC-10 and the engine mounted in the tail lost a blade
>>> which cut all three lines. The aircraft was able to land, sort of.
>>>
>>> Long before "fly-by-wire".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That was the point I was trying to make. That no matter that there were
>> 3 lines to backup each other it does not matter if everything fails.
>> The plane was able to make it to land due to the skill of the pilot but
>> I think it sort of crashed and not all survived.
>>
>> The plane that went down in the Hudson was cased by a flight of birds,
>> something that could not be backed up against. Due to the skill of the
>> pilot he landed safely in the river and all survived.
>>
>
>Exactly!
>
>Flying is easy and boring...until really bad weather on final or shit
>starts breaking.
Flying is simple. Taking off a little more complex, and landing a bit
more complex than that. Flying without controls is a LOT more
difficult - as is flying without power, or without major missing
portions of the airframe

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 28 Mar 2024 00:06:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 3/28/2024 12:38 AM, bud-- wrote:
>
>> I believe Buttigieg has said he doesn't know of any bridge that could
>> withstand a similar hit. The energy is huge. Unless the barrier extended
>> far from the piers (to gradually slow) the barrier would put a huge dent
>> in the ship (which requires a less large barrier that won't move,
>> perhaps made of unobtainium). You can't suddenly stop the ship.
>>
>> May be more practical to require tug boats accompany large ships. Lower
>> speeds (was going about 9 mph)?
>>
>> "When an irresistible force such as [a ship] meets an old immovable
>> object like [a bridge]...."
>
>
>Have you ever piloted a boat? At lower speed it may have been more of a
>danger and less maneuverable. The rudder requires motion to make the
>vessel turn. Tides and currents are factors also.
>
>Tug may or may not have helped, depending on timing and staging.

There were two tugs, but they seem to have left early on. I don't know
if the two they had were able to do anything:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/03/28/key-bridge-collapse-timeline/
12:51 a.m.: The Dali’s status is changed to “under way using engine” and
its speed is recorded at about 3 knots on myshiptracking.com, a website
that tracks ships’ locations via the Automatic Identification System, a
technology used to avoid collisions.

1:09 a.m.: Two tugboats guiding the Dali leave once the ship turns to
begin its departure out of the port waters.
......
1:24:59: The sounds of numerous alarms are recorded on the ship bridge’s
audio. The ship’s power goes out, flickers partially back on a minute
later, and goes out again by 1:26 a.m. Black smoke billows from the
ship.

1:26:39: With the power outage likely impacting navigation, the pilot
radios for a tug boat. A pilot association dispatcher, meanwhile, phones
a Maryland Transportation Authority duty officer to report the ship’s
loss of power.

I haven't played the audios.

One part of this article is uplifting at least, that they only had 2
minutes or maybe 90 secodns from the time the Mayday went out and were
still able to block the bridge from added traffic.

1:27:04: The pilot orders the Dali to drop an anchor and issues steering
commands. Cars and trucks continue to travel on the roadway.

1:27:05 a.m. to 1:29 a.m.: The pilot issues a mayday alert to the Coast
Guard. Maryland Transportation Authority Police stop bridge traffic in
both directions. A handful of vehicles cross the bridge as the Dali
closes in on the bridge’s western steel support column.

“Hold all traffic on the Key Bridge. There’s a ship approaching that
just lost their steering,” a dispatcher says.

An officer asks whether a construction crew is working on the bridge.

“Just make sure no one’s on the bridge right now. I’m not sure what —
there’s a crew up there. You might want to notify whoever the foreman
is, see if we can get them off the bridge temporarily,” a dispatcher
responds.

A half minute later, an officer says he’ll grab the construction workers
when backup arrives. [Because he was stopping the traffic on the
Beltway.]

But there’s no time.

Traveling at a speed of just under 7 knots or about 8 mph, the ship rams
into the bridge. The voyage data recorder captures what sounds like the
collision at 1:29 a.m. The NTSB said Wednesday night that more analysis
was needed to determine the precise time of impact.
-- end quote --

As to the two men who came out of the water first, I heard that one was
fine and the other was in critical condition in the hospital, but a few
days later I heard the second man was released already.

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:41:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 01:38:20 +1100, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>
>> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 02:53:32 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
>> ? <@.> wrote:
>>
>>> Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>>>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>>>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>>>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy
>>>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter
>>>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were
>>>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We
>>>> continued on I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>>>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>>>
>>>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross
>>>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>>>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to
>>>> fishing piers.
>>>
>>> It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>>> supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>>> truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>>> the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>>> blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
>>> lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>>> tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>>> South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>>>
>>>
>> I was going to point this out somewhere anyhow, and this seems the right
>> spot. they didn't have ships anywhere near this big or heavy when the
>> bridge was built. And i don't think anyone foresaw them either.
>
>Yes they did. And they had even heavier tankers then

Oh, you. Always have an opinion, but never have any sources. And
wrong in this case and, I'm sure, many, many others. Since you post
off the top of your head without reading anything.

Quote:
When Key Bridge was built, the biggest container ship in the world in
storage terms, the German-made Hamburg Express, could carry 2,950
20-foot units of containers. Such TEUs are standard measurement for the
industry, though most containers are 40 feet. The Dali, built in 2015,
could hold nearly 10,000 TEUs. The biggest in the world today, the
Chinese-built MSC Marina, carries 24,346.

“At the time the Key Bridge was designed, such vessels didn’t exist,”
said Ian Firth, a British structural engineer and bridge designer, in a
telephone interview with The Baltimore Sun. “Nobody had the foggiest
idea that such a vessel could possibly ever exist. No way the designer
could have imagined this, and indeed, not just the designer, but those
who commissioned the bridge and the project and decided on the size of
the span.”
https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/04/06/engineers-cable-stayed-bridge-baltimore/?lctg=944A34AF55F3A4C5F5A074E8A7&utm_email=944A34AF55F3A4C5F5A074E8A7&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.baltimoresun.com%2f2024%2f04%2f06%2fengineers-cable-stayed-bridge-baltimore%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking-News-Alerts&utm_content=alert

micky wrote on 4/6/2024 3:09 PM:
> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:41:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 01:38:20 +1100, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 02:53:32 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
>>> ? <@.> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>>>>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>>>>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>>>>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy
>>>>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter
>>>>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were
>>>>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We
>>>>> continued on I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>>>>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross
>>>>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>>>>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to
>>>>> fishing piers.
>>>> It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>>>> supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>>>> truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>>>> the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>>>> blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
>>>> lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>>>> tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>>>> South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I was going to point this out somewhere anyhow, and this seems the right
>>> spot. they didn't have ships anywhere near this big or heavy when the
>>> bridge was built. And i don't think anyone foresaw them either.
>> Yes they did. And they had even heavier tankers then
> Oh, you. Always have an opinion, but never have any sources. And
> wrong in this case and, I'm sure, many, many others. Since you post
> off the top of your head without reading anything.
>
> Quote:
> When Key Bridge was built, the biggest container ship in the world in
> storage terms, the German-made Hamburg Express, could carry 2,950
> 20-foot units of containers. Such TEUs are standard measurement for the
> industry, though most containers are 40 feet. The Dali, built in 2015,
> could hold nearly 10,000 TEUs. The biggest in the world today, the
> Chinese-built MSC Marina, carries 24,346.
>
> “At the time the Key Bridge was designed, such vessels didn’t exist,”
> said Ian Firth, a British structural engineer and bridge designer, in a
> telephone interview with The Baltimore Sun. “Nobody had the foggiest
> idea that such a vessel could possibly ever exist. No way the designer
> could have imagined this, and indeed, not just the designer, but those
> who commissioned the bridge and the project and decided on the size of
> the span.”
> https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/04/06/engineers-cable-stayed-bridge-baltimore/

How come China built the biggest of everything? What's wrong with the US?

China built the biggest container cargo ship
(https://newatlas.com/marine/msc-tessa-worlds-largest-container-ship/).

China built the biggest hydro electric dam (The Three Gorges Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam).

China built the largest radio telescope
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-hundred-meter_Aperture_Spherical_Telescope).

😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ <@.> wrote:
> micky wrote on 4/6/2024 3:09 PM:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:41:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 01:38:20 +1100, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 02:53:32 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
>>>> ? <@.> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>>>>>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>>>>>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>>>>>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy
>>>>>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter
>>>>>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were
>>>>>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We
>>>>>> continued on I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>>>>>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross
>>>>>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>>>>>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to
>>>>>> fishing piers.
>>>>> It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>>>>> supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>>>>> truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>>>>> the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>>>>> blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
>>>>> lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>>>>> tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>>>>> South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I was going to point this out somewhere anyhow, and this seems the right
>>>> spot. they didn't have ships anywhere near this big or heavy when the
>>>> bridge was built. And i don't think anyone foresaw them either.
>>> Yes they did. And they had even heavier tankers then
>> Oh, you. Always have an opinion, but never have any sources. And
>> wrong in this case and, I'm sure, many, many others. Since you post
>> off the top of your head without reading anything.
>>
>> Quote:
>> When Key Bridge was built, the biggest container ship in the world in
>> storage terms, the German-made Hamburg Express, could carry 2,950
>> 20-foot units of containers. Such TEUs are standard measurement for the
>> industry, though most containers are 40 feet. The Dali, built in 2015,
>> could hold nearly 10,000 TEUs. The biggest in the world today, the
>> Chinese-built MSC Marina, carries 24,346.
>>
>> “At the time the Key Bridge was designed, such vessels didn’t exist,”
>> said Ian Firth, a British structural engineer and bridge designer, in a
>> telephone interview with The Baltimore Sun. “Nobody had the foggiest
>> idea that such a vessel could possibly ever exist. No way the designer
>> could have imagined this, and indeed, not just the designer, but those
>> who commissioned the bridge and the project and decided on the size of
>> the span.”
>> https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/04/06/engineers-cable-stayed-bridge-baltimore/
>
> How come China built the biggest of everything?

Bigger isn’t necessarily better.

What's wrong with the US?
>
> China built the biggest container cargo ship
> (https://newatlas.com/marine/msc-tessa-worlds-largest-container-ship/).

China buys in engineering talent.
>
> China built the biggest hydro electric dam (The Three Gorges Dam
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam).
>
Ah, the one that is cracking and moving downstream. The one where no
foreigners are allowed to get near! That one??

> China built the largest radio telescope
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-hundred-meter_Aperture_Spherical_Telescope).
>
Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme that
encompasses 30% of the entire Chinese economy and is currently in the
process of collapsing and taking $trillions out of Chinese people’s life
savings. Yep, China has the world’s largest cadre of state sanctioned
criminals in history.

____
Xeno

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
<xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme

The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's largest
Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you useless babbling
idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the outback down under more
often to see the world pass you by.

On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>
>
> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's largest
> Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you useless babbling
> idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the outback down under more
> often to see the world pass you by.
>
You aint seen nothin' yet Fake Micky!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

In alt.home.repair, on Mon 8 Apr, 2024 05:12:30 +0000, Xeno wrote:
> On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>
>>
>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's
>> largest Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you
>> useless babbling idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the
>> outback down under more often to see the world pass you by.
>>
>
> You aint seen nothin' yet !
>
>

I have seen koalas a lot faster and smarter than you.

On 8/4/2024 10:04 pm, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon 8 Apr, 2024 05:12:30 +0000, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
>>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's
>>> largest Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you
>>> useless babbling idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the
>>> outback down under more often to see the world pass you by.
>>>
>>
>> You aint seen nothin' yet !
>>
>>
>
> I have seen koalas a lot faster and smarter than you.
>
Wait till you meet up with a drop bear! You'll be the fastest piece of
shit in existence.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno wrote:
> On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>
>>
>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's largest Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you useless babbling idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the outback down under more often to see the world pass you by.
>>
> You aint seen nothin' yet Fake Micky!
>
>

<sarcasm> The Biden Crime Family is too big to fail. </sarcasm>

On 8/4/2024 11:31 pm, Ben Verified - ✅ wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
>>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's
>>> largest Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you
>>> useless babbling idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the
>>> outback down under more often to see the world pass you by.
>>>
>> You aint seen nothin' yet Fake Micky!
>>
>>
>
> <sarcasm> The Biden Crime Family is too big to fail. </sarcasm>
>
Ji Jin Ping thought China was too big to fail also.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:12:10 +1000, Xeno
<xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>
>>
>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's largest
>> Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you useless babbling
>> idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the outback down under more
>> often to see the world pass you by.
>>
>You aint seen nothin' yet Fake Micky!

Good for you. Yes indeed, it's not me.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 8 Apr 2024 08:04:20 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Mon 8 Apr, 2024 05:12:30 +0000, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/4/2024 3:09 pm, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 7 April, 2024 20:19:30 +0000, Xeno
>>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never forget they also built the worlds largest ponzi scheme
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2007/2008 subprime mortgage bubble in the US was the world's
>>> largest Ponzi scheme that brought down the world's economy, you
>>> useless babbling idiot. Your should crawl out of your rock in the
>>> outback down under more often to see the world pass you by.
>>>
>>
>> You aint seen nothin' yet !
>>
>>
>
>I have seen koalas a lot faster and smarter than you.
>
Also a forger, not posted by me.