I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.

I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.

I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
piers.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>
>
>I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>
>I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>piers.

I don't understand Sleepy Joe's quick statement about paying for
the repairs - the ship's insurance should be paying 100 %.
John T.

On 3/26/2024 8:13 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>> in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>> Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>> piers.
>
>
> I don't understand Sleepy Joe's quick statement about paying for
> the repairs - the ship's insurance should be paying 100 %.
> John T.

Perhaps that should be clarified. Do you think the insurance company
will be sending a check this week? Will it cover 100% of the cost to
replace? Should we wait for the check to get started or start tomorrow
with government funds?

https://tinyurl.com/m62pwrvk

While the accident will generate a complex web of claims and liability
that may take years to untangle, the financial fallout is expected to
fall heavily on the reinsurance industry.

"No doubt both marine insurers and reinsurers will be involved with this
loss," said Loretta Worters, a spokesperson for the Insurance
Information Institute.

On 27/3/2024 11:13 am, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>> in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>> Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>> piers.
>
>
> I don't understand Sleepy Joe's quick statement about paying for
> the repairs - the ship's insurance should be paying 100 %.
> John T.

It's been made clear in the media that the feds will pay to *expedite*
the repairs - then the insurance will likely be charged the cost of said
repairs. The bridge is a vital artery, the rebuilding needs to happen
*before* the investigations, court cases, etc.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship.  Went down like a kids toy.
>
>
> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen.  One
> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia.  Heavy
> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute.  My daughter
> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it.  I told here they were
> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about.  
> We continued on I95 north.  Next morning, I have the news on and hear
> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>
> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility.  I often cross
> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay.  It is the bridge rebuilt after the
> original went down in 1980.  What remained has been converted to
> fishing piers.

It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.

hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>> in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>> Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>> piers.
>
>
> I don't understand Sleepy Joe's quick statement about paying for
> the repairs - the ship's insurance should be paying 100 %.
> John T.
>

The insurance company would fight back, the taxpayers won't.

I think the Biden Crime Family will form a new DEI construction company to do the rebuild.
Maybe Mayor Pete will be the CEO?
Will the new bridge look like a giant rainbow?

On 3/27/2024 2:53 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship.  Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen.  One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia.  Heavy
>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute.  My daughter
>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it.  I told here they were
>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about.  
>> We continued on I95 north.  Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility.  I often cross
>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay.  It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980.  What remained has been converted to
>> fishing piers.
>
> It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
> supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
> truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
> the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
> blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
> lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
> tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
> South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>
>
>

You seem so enamored with the way China is doing things, why don't you
move there? Permanently!

On 3/26/2024 7:54 PM, Ed P wrote:
>
>
> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>

Many of us have had close calls. I'm an extremely punctual person, to
the point of usually being somewhat early. Only once in my life did I
ever miss an airplane flight. I was a high school student visiting an
out of town college to be interviewed and also to try to decide if I
wanted to apply. There were accidents on the road ahead during the cab
ride from my home to the airport and we were in stop and go traffic for
almost an hour. I missed the plane - which crashed with no survivors
during the flight that I missed. Life is just a series of serendipitous
happenings.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 02:53:32 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
? <@.> wrote:

>Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship.  Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen.  One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia.  Heavy
>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute.  My daughter
>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it.  I told here they were
>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about.  
>> We continued on I95 north.  Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility.  I often cross
>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay.  It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980.  What remained has been converted to
>> fishing piers.
>
>It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
>lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>
>
I was going to point this out somewhere anyhow, and this seems the right
spot. they didn't have ships anywhere near this big or heavy when the
bridge was built. And i don't think anyone foresaw them either.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 10:27:25 -0400, Retirednoguilt
<HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>On 3/26/2024 7:54 PM, Ed P wrote:
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>
>Many of us have had close calls. I'm an extremely punctual person, to
>the point of usually being somewhat early. Only once in my life did I
>ever miss an airplane flight. I was a high school student visiting an
>out of town college to be interviewed and also to try to decide if I
>wanted to apply. There were accidents on the road ahead during the cab
>ride from my home to the airport and we were in stop and go traffic for
>almost an hour. I missed the plane - which crashed with no survivors
>during the flight that I missed. Life is just a series of serendipitous
>happenings.

That *is* close.

Around 1986, I was on a business trip to Montreal, and in the basement
of the trainstation connected to the hotel were lockers for travelers to
use, and I was going to stay serveral hours after I had to check out of
the hotel - but they were still going to let me use one of their
bicycles.

I went to the lockers the first day to see if they were really
available, then again 3 days later to put my stuff in one, and several
hours later to get my stuff. It was either the next day at the same
clock time I had been there, or 7 days later at that time, that Quuebec
terrorists blew up the lockers, and killed people and injured more. Not
as close as your near miss but it's too close for me.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 02:53:32 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
? <@.> wrote:

>Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship.  Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen.  One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia.  Heavy
>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute.  My daughter
>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it.  I told here they were
>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about.  
>> We continued on I95 north.  Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility.  I often cross
>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay.  It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980.  What remained has been converted to
>> fishing piers.
>
>It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>blame capitalism.

Maybe this is a better point to make: I've found people use the word
capitalism for all kinds of meanings, often related to money, but which
are not actually capitalism. Free enterprise, free market, market
system, supply and demand, and there are more even further afield I
can't think of right now. I hear businesses which require no capital
referred to as capitalist.

Do you honestly think everything in non-capitalist economies is well
built? Those built by private builders, or only by the government? Do
you think all the so-called non-capitalist countries' governments are
rolling in money they overdesign what they build. Or do they have more
things to spend money on than they have money to spend, and so they
often build things just to what they think is a reasonable standard, or
even less than that. The ugly barren apartment buildings of the Soviet
Union is one example of "less than that", at least in apparance if not
structural endurance.

How much could you possible know about construction throughout the
world?

> Award the project to the company which submits the
>lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>
>

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P
<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>
>
>I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>
>I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>piers.

I have to go to New Jersey tomorrow, and at 10 PM last night google maps
was still showing me the Key Bridge as one possible route.

But now it has a red exclamation mark and says it was updated 17 hours
ago. That would be 6 PM yesterday but I'm sure it was 8, 9, or even 10
when it was still routing me across the bridge.

micky wrote on 3/27/2024 11:09 AM:
> In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 26 Mar 2024 19:54:21 -0400, Ed P
> <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key bridge
>> in Baltimore getting hit my a ship. Went down like a kids toy.
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility. I often cross the
>> Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay. It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>> original went down in 1980. What remained has been converted to fishing
>> piers.
> I have to go to New Jersey tomorrow, and at 10 PM last night google maps
> was still showing me the Key Bridge as one possible route.
>
> But now it has a red exclamation mark and says it was updated 17 hours
> ago. That would be 6 PM yesterday but I'm sure it was 8, 9, or even 10
> when it was still routing me across the bridge.

The red exclamation mark you saw might have meant the road construction
that was going on. Six construction workers who were pouring concrete on
the bridge went down with the bridge.

Now I click on the red exclamation mark, it says:

Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse
Maryland, United States
Updated 19 hours ago

Retirednoguilt wrote on 3/27/2024 9:58 AM:
> On 3/27/2024 2:53 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> Ed P wrote on 3/26/2024 7:54 PM:
>>> I image most of you have seen the video of the Francis Scott Key
>>> bridge in Baltimore getting hit my a ship.  Went down like a kids toy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen.  One
>>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia.  Heavy
>>> traffic on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute.  My daughter
>>> noticed the bridge moving and asked about it.  I told here they were
>>> designed to move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about.
>>> We continued on I95 north.  Next morning, I have the news on and hear
>>> the Mianus River Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>>
>>> I don't worry, but I do think about the possibility.  I often cross
>>> the Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay.  It is the bridge rebuilt after the
>>> original went down in 1980.  What remained has been converted to
>>> fishing piers.
>> It's a matter of time a large ship would hit the pier and take out the
>> supporting truss structure (note that even the legs of the bridge are
>> truss A-frames, not concrete columns) of the truss bridge. They built
>> the bridge so flimsy, for convenience. No "over-engineering" at all. I
>> blame capitalism. Award the project to the company which submits the
>> lowest bid. Brace for more "bare minimum" American engineering come
>> tumbling down. China is building infrastructure all over Africa and
>> South America. Maybe pay China to "Build Back Better" for Uncle Sam.
>>
>>
>>
> You seem so enamored with the way China is doing things, why don't you
> move there? Permanently!

I live in Canada, which provided sanctuary to American draft dodgers (I
am so proud), and we have strict construction standards. Do you remember
the Florida condo came tumbling down? If you look at the close-up photos
of the pile of dirt, there were hardly any rebar or concrete. They built
the condo with mostly sea sand and watered-down Elmer's glue.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Surfside+condo+collapse&udm=2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse

On 3/27/2024 10:27 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
> On 3/26/2024 7:54 PM, Ed P wrote:
>>
>>
>> I never thought much about it in the past, but things happen. One
>> Sunday night we were going home to CT from Philadelphia. Heavy traffic
>> on the GW bridge and we were stopped a minute. My daughter noticed the
>> bridge moving and asked about it. I told here they were designed to
>> move in high winds and storms, nothing to worry about. We continued on
>> I95 north. Next morning, I have the news on and hear the Mianus River
>> Bridge collapsed a bit after we crossed it.
>>
>
> Many of us have had close calls. I'm an extremely punctual person, to
> the point of usually being somewhat early. Only once in my life did I
> ever miss an airplane flight. I was a high school student visiting an
> out of town college to be interviewed and also to try to decide if I
> wanted to apply. There were accidents on the road ahead during the cab
> ride from my home to the airport and we were in stop and go traffic for
> almost an hour. I missed the plane - which crashed with no survivors
> during the flight that I missed. Life is just a series of serendipitous
> happenings.
>

We are now hearing that a project has been going on at the Delaware
Memorial twin span to add protectors to the bridge column. Should be
complete next year. They did foresee the need with bigger vessels going
up the river.

https://www.delawarepublic.org/delaware-headlines/2024-03-26/work-on-the-delaware-memorial-bridge-collision-protection-system-is-going-smoothly

Apparently the other bridges going to PA are OK.

On 3/27/2024 11:09 AM, micky wrote:

>
> I have to go to New Jersey tomorrow, and at 10 PM last night google maps
> was still showing me the Key Bridge as one possible route.
>
> But now it has a red exclamation mark and says it was updated 17 hours
> ago. That would be 6 PM yesterday but I'm sure it was 8, 9, or even 10
> when it was still routing me across the bridge.

When I pass around Baltimore going to NJ it takes me I95 through the
tunnel so I never saw that bridge.

It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute and such.
It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go around. It will take
from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.

Ed P wrote on 3/27/2024 1:12 PM:
> On 3/27/2024 11:09 AM, micky wrote:
>
>>
>> I have to go to New Jersey tomorrow, and at 10 PM last night google maps
>> was still showing me the Key Bridge as one possible route.
>>
>> But now it has a red exclamation mark and says it was updated 17 hours
>> ago.  That would be 6 PM yesterday but I'm sure it was 8, 9, or even 10
>> when it was still routing me across the bridge.
>
>
> When I pass around Baltimore going to NJ it takes me I95 through the
> tunnel so I never saw that bridge.
>
> It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute and such.
> It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go around. It will
> take from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.

You can probably pay China to build it in just one year. Look at all
those artificial islands China built out of coral reefs in the middle of
South China Sea in no time flat, including airports, runways, hangars,
piers, and concrete buildings. China has all those dredgers, barges, and
concrete mixers ready to go. Just ask them for a quote.

On 3/27/2024 1:36 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> Ed P wrote on 3/27/2024 1:12 PM:
>> On 3/27/2024 11:09 AM, micky wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have to go to New Jersey tomorrow, and at 10 PM last night google maps
>>> was still showing me the Key Bridge as one possible route.
>>>
>>> But now it has a red exclamation mark and says it was updated 17 hours
>>> ago.  That would be 6 PM yesterday but I'm sure it was 8, 9, or even 10
>>> when it was still routing me across the bridge.
>>
>>
>> When I pass around Baltimore going to NJ it takes me I95 through the
>> tunnel so I never saw that bridge.
>>
>> It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute and such.
>> It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go around. It will
>> take from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.
>
>
> You can probably pay China to build it in just one year. Look at all
> those artificial islands China built out of coral reefs in the middle of
> South China Sea in no time flat, including airports, runways, hangars,
> piers, and concrete buildings. China has all those dredgers, barges, and
> concrete mixers ready to go. Just ask them for a quote.
>
>
>

The river is relatively narrow compared to the South China Sea and has
tidal and rip currents. The bottom is covered with a thick layer of
silt. Construction also has to contend with a high volume of ships
going to and from the Baltimore Port that will need to transit the
construction zone. That's a completely different construction
environment than the Chinese had to deal with. Also, construction costs
in China are negligible. They enslave a work force and pay them nothing
or next to nothing, work them long hours with minimal time off, and only
have the expenses of materials and lousy food and shelter for the
slaves. You're comparing apples and oranges.

On 3/27/24 1:12 PM, Ed P wrote:
> It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute
> and such. It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go
> around.  It will take from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.

I would advocate that they NOT build another bridge, but
instead construct a tunnel.

I realize the bridge had served as a route for hazardous
trucks that couldn't use the existing tunnels. So be it.

For them, I would recommend that they also get a small fleet
of specialized boats.
You know... they used to have them everywhere.
Called... "ferries".

Again, only for those vehicles that would be banned from the
tunnel.

On 3/27/2024 12:58 PM, Frank wrote:

>
> We are now hearing that a project has been going on at the Delaware
> Memorial twin span to add protectors to the bridge column.  Should be
> complete next year.  They did foresee the need with bigger vessels going
> up the river.
>
> https://www.delawarepublic.org/delaware-headlines/2024-03-26/work-on-the-delaware-memorial-bridge-collision-protection-system-is-going-smoothly
>
> Apparently the other bridges going to PA are OK.

They probably see the big ships.

Going back some years, Philly never had the huge ships like that and
very few of any size went as far a Trenton. I imagine they have since
built larger terminals towards the southern end, no room once up in the
Philly/Camden area where the old terminals are.

Fishrrman <Fishrrman2000@yahoo.com> writes:
>On 3/27/24 1:12 PM, Ed P wrote:
>> It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute
>> and such. It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go
>> around.  It will take from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.
>
>I would advocate that they NOT build another bridge, but
>instead construct a tunnel.

At twice the cost (or more)?

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:32:57 -0400, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:

> I live in Canada, which provided sanctuary to American draft dodgers (I
> am so proud), and we have strict construction standards. Do you remember
> the Florida condo came tumbling down? If you look at the close-up photos
> of the pile of dirt, there were hardly any rebar or concrete. They built
> the condo with mostly sea sand and watered-down Elmer's glue.

Was that built by the same DEI company that built the bridge that fell
down before it was even used?

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:15:58 -0400, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:

> The red exclamation mark you saw might have meant the road construction
> that was going on. Six construction workers who were pouring concrete on
> the bridge went down with the bridge.

https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/who-is-missing-in-baltimores-
francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-what-we-know-about-those-unaccounted-for

"The men, who are now presumed dead, are from El Salvador, Guatemala,
Honduras and Mexico, and were living in Dundalk and Highlandtown,
according to WJZ media partner The Baltimore Banner."

Hmmmmm...

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 16:16:23 -0400, Fishrrman
<Fishrrman2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 3/27/24 1:12 PM, Ed P wrote:
>> It is going to suck for people that use if for daily commute
>> and such. It will add quite a bit of time and distance to go
>> around.  It will take from 5 to 8 years to rebuild.
>
>I would advocate that they NOT build another bridge, but
>instead construct a tunnel.

I thought of that too. I think without reading your post or anything
else that suggested it.

>I realize the bridge had served as a route for hazardous
>trucks that couldn't use the existing tunnels. So be it.

You seem to know a lot about it. Yes, they don't allow hazmats in the 2
current tunnels.

>For them, I would recommend that they also get a small fleet
>of specialized boats.
>You know... they used to have them everywhere.
>Called... "ferries".

I don't know if that would work. Other people would know how many such
trucks there are each day, how much they weigh, etc.

>Again, only for those vehicles that would be banned from the
>tunnel.

I don't know if Scott is right about the higher price, but even if so,
it might be more than made up for if it can be ready sooner. I was not
here then but the current two tunnels were not, for the most part,
drilled. They were pre-made tubes that were lowered to the bottom,
weighed down, and buried. It sounds like making the tubes themselves
would take up the most time, but they could perhaps be made on several
'assembly' lines at once.

"The [harbor] tunnel opened on November 29, 1957, with a dedication by
Maryland Governor Theodore McKeldin and a crowd of 4,000 spectators. The
initial toll for standard cars was 40¢. In the first 12 hours of
operation, the tunnel handled an estimated 10,000 vehicles, mostly
drivers from Maryland. In the same period, the tunnel also experienced
its first collision (15 minutes after opening), first flat tire and
first stalled vehicle." LOL

At the Lincoln and Holland tunnels in NYC they keep a tow truck parked
at the exit for times like this. Don't konw about Baltimore, where I
have taken the tunnels a total of one time each. When i worked at Beth
Steel I used to take the bridge twice a day most work days.

rbowman wrote on 3/27/2024 9:20 PM:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:32:57 -0400, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>
>> I live in Canada, which provided sanctuary to American draft dodgers (I
>> am so proud), and we have strict construction standards. Do you remember
>> the Florida condo came tumbling down? If you look at the close-up photos
>> of the pile of dirt, there were hardly any rebar or concrete. They built
>> the condo with mostly sea sand and watered-down Elmer's glue.
> Was that built by the same DEI company that built the bridge that fell
> down before it was even used?

There were no such thing as DEI in 1981 when the condo was built. Ronald
Reagan was president.