bud-- wrote on 4/6/2024 12:21 PM:
> On 4/6/2024 1:49 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> bud-- wrote on 4/5/2024 11:49 PM:
>>> On 4/5/2024 1:38 PM, bud-- wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2024 6:04 AM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>> On 4/5/2024 4:48 AM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 8:36 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>>>>> micky wrote on 4/3/2024 11:06 PM:
>>>>>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Apr 2024 22:28:36 -0400, ? Mighty
>>>>>>>> Wannabe
>>>>>>>> ? <@.> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob F wrote on 4/3/2024 9:58 PM:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 6:30 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed P wrote on 4/3/2024 9:05 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 8:31 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob F wrote on 4/3/2024 7:59 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 3:02 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micky wrote on 4/3/2024 9:46 AM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can't find the thread about the Key Bridge being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knocked down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, but wanted to comment on the racist pigs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USA who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claimed it had something to do with seeking diversity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in who the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shipping company hires.   What nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you notice that the news kept mentioning the "pilot"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the "captain"? The captain didn't hit the Baltimore Key
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bridge. The "pilot" who was working for Baltimore was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ship, not the captain. The pilot was hired to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because the pilot knows the water channel like the back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand. The pilot knows where the ship should avoid so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't run aground.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore authorities cannot sue the captain of the ship
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ship, because the "pilot" who was steering the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ship worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Baltimore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The pilot did not hit the bridge, the ship hit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bridge, after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's power systems failed. You actually think that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pilots
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fault?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you like to have been the second pilot, who was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being trained?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. Good luck blaming
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else for the accident. The US will have to pick up the tab
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third party liability (people hurt/killed as a result of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapse) and property damage (the bridge and the vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fell into the water).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How We Steer A Cargo Ship
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> He was at the helm, but the helm did not work. Can't pin
>>>>>>>>>>>> that on him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nice video.  Did you notice in the last minute that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> engines were
>>>>>>>>>>>> running and making power?  The ship that hit the bridge did
>>>>>>>>>>>> not have
>>>>>>>>>>>> that luxury.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. He might have
>>>>>>>>>>> accidentally killed
>>>>>>>>>>> the power by pushing the wrong button.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you Rod Speed??? You certainly have his stupid know it
>>>>>>>>>> all attitude.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I merely put forward the best, unbiased analysis of what
>>>>>>>>> caused the
>>>>>>>>> accident.
>>>>>>>> Might be unbiased, but definitely not the best analysis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other have answered pretty well but since you replied first to
>>>>>>>> my post,
>>>>>>>> I will take the bait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I were driving a Ford with 1000 miles on it, and the rack
>>>>>>>> and pinion
>>>>>>>> locked up so that I coudlnt' steer it, do you think I would be
>>>>>>>> liable
>>>>>>>> for the damages that followed or Ford would?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You were driving your own car. How's that relevant to the case
>>>>>>> of the Baltimore harbour pilots at the helm of a strange (or not
>>>>>>> so familiar) ship?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the same here.  Assuming the engine could have been turned
>>>>>>>> off, and
>>>>>>>> that the pilot had the power to do that, and he did it, that
>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>> the pilot and his employer liable. But you have to prove that by a
>>>>>>>> preponderance of the evidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there is a black box in ships like that. I think they
>>>>>>> got the hold of the black box.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.businessinsider.com/baltimore-bridge-collapse-cargo-ship-black-box-recovered-2024-3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could also be that the owner of the ship didn't maintain the
>>>>>>>> engines
>>>>>>>> properly and that caused the engines to stop.  That would make
>>>>>>>> the owner
>>>>>>>> liable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It worked fine all over the world until the Baltimore harbour
>>>>>>> pilots took over the helm. I'd blame the pilots first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could be, I hear, that the fuel they used was bad and that
>>>>>>>> made the
>>>>>>>> engnine and the electrical generating engines stop. That could
>>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>>> vendor of the fuel liable, unless maybe he took the standard
>>>>>>>> amount of
>>>>>>>> care but someone else not related to the fuel vendor intentionally
>>>>>>>> damaged the fuel.   Or it could be the fuel wholesaler or
>>>>>>>> producer made
>>>>>>>> bad fuel that fouled the engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bad fuel won't make the power go out and come back on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could be that none of those parties were negligent but it
>>>>>>>> turns out
>>>>>>>> the electical generating engines fail at a certain age, and it
>>>>>>>> was that
>>>>>>>> old but they buyers weren't warned.   The maker of the engines
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> have known they fail at that age and not warned the buyers, or
>>>>>>>> maybe he
>>>>>>>> didn't know this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This does not explain why the power went out and came back on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are other things that could have caused this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fat finger pushing the wrong button?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pilot never touches any buttons, other than perhaps the
>>>>>> switch on a microphone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not clear from afar, and it's not even clear to those on
>>>>>>>> the scene,
>>>>>>>> if someone was at fault and if so, who it was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You keep trying to make excuses for the Baltimore harbour pilots
>>>>>>> when their human error is the most likely culprit of this disaster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You keep blaming the pilot, without an ounce of evidence or any
>>>>>> reasonable way a pilot could have caused the power failure(s).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the reports are made, equipment failure will most likely be
>>>>>> the cause, and the pilot is highly unlikely to be held
>>>>>> responsible, since there is nothing a pilot could do to cause
>>>>>> equipment failures. Some form of poor maintenance will likely be
>>>>>> cited as the cause, with crew operational mistakes being the most
>>>>>> likely alternative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "There were two ship pilots aboard the ship as it left its berth
>>>>> in the Port of Baltimore. Can you tell us what ship pilots do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Post: Ship pilots are brought on board in what are considered
>>>>> restricted maneuverability or navigation areas. They are local
>>>>> experts who are usually certified by the state or federal
>>>>> government to provide advice to the master of the vessel as to how
>>>>> to control the vessel, safely and adequately, through the pilotage
>>>>> waters, which in this case would be down the river from the Port
>>>>> of Baltimore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pilots are well practiced in close-quarters maneuvering,
>>>>> especially with tugboats and docking the vessel alongside the
>>>>> assigned berth.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a pilot doesn’t come aboard the ship and take control of it,
>>>>> do they?
>>>>>
>>>>> Post: They are just advisers to the captain, who is known as the
>>>>> “master.” The master still has full responsibility for the safe
>>>>> navigation of the vessel. So the pilot will meet the ship out at
>>>>> sea or at the dock if it’s in port and leaving to go to sea. They
>>>>> proceed up to the bridge. Usually they exchange greetings, and
>>>>> usually a little bit of ship’s swag is given, either a hat or
>>>>> something else, or at least a cup of coffee.
>>>>>
>>>>> They then set up their gear. With the electronics that we now
>>>>> have, they plug into the ship’s electronic chart data information
>>>>> system. And then they conduct the pilot exchange with the master
>>>>> of the vessel, where the master of the vessel describes where they
>>>>> are going, what the characteristics of the ship are, who’s on the
>>>>> bridge, what their first language is and the air draft of the
>>>>> vessel, which refers to how high out of the water the vessel is,
>>>>> so that you know whether you can take the ship under a bridge safely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once that’s completed, the pilot then starts instructing the
>>>>> officer of the watch or the captain – those are usually the same
>>>>> person – in how to get to where they need to be to dock the ship,
>>>>> or undock the ship and bring it to sea. This instructing is done
>>>>> during complex maneuvers, not all the time. The pilot can also say
>>>>> he’s not going to do it, and can shut down their operations if
>>>>> conditions are unsafe or if they feel that the vessel is not in
>>>>> condition to be able to transit safely. That happens a lot,
>>>>> especially in fog.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ship pilot also interacts with the Coast Guard Vessel Traffic
>>>>> Service and other ships in the area, and coordinates with the
>>>>> tugboats and line handlers to be able to safely maneuver the
>>>>> vessel close to the pier or when a ship is leaving the berth."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://today.tamu.edu/2024/03/26/how-captains-and-harbor-pilots-safely-guide-ships-into-port/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting description.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Stupid idea - that a pilot directly operates the controls of a ship
>>>> he has no experience operating. (If that is not completely obvious
>>>> read above.)
>>>>
>>>> Stupid idea - that there is a readily accessible easily operated
>>>> button on the bridge that will shut down the engines. (If I am
>>>> driving and push the car Run/Off button nothing happens.)
>>>>
>>>> Someone is competing for Ed's coveted Worst Post Ever award. With
>>>> stiff competition I don't think he has quite made it yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I may have accidentally deleted a Mighty Wannabe post, because I am
>>> a mouthbreathing idiot!!!
>>>
>>
>> Fear not!!!
>>
>>
>> This is my reply to ED P's post. Apparently a trainee pilot from
>> Baltimore port authority was handling all the maneuvers on the bridge
>> of the container ship, right until the crash:
>
> Still unable to read and understand
>
>

You are typical of American school grads. Cannot read, write or do math.

This is my reply to ED P's post. Apparently a trainee pilot from
Baltimore port authority was handling all the maneuvers on the bridge of
the container ship, right until the crash:

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/baltimore/key-bridge-collapse-ship-pilot-LKDWFY237JFR5NCR7KXZIWRDVA/

The following paragraphs are excerpts from your link:

#1
“The pilot ordered a hard left rudder, and dropped the port anchor to
try to keep the ship from moving right,” said Clayton L. Diamond,
executive director and general counsel for The American Pilots’
Association. “The pilot did everything he could to slow the ship.”

#2
The Maryland pilot who guided the ship received years of training to
become a pilot, has a state license which requires knowledge of the
local waters and has more than a decade of experience. An apprentice
pilot was on board observing the pilot, but Diamond said he was new to
the pilot training program, having started on Feb. 1, and was not
involved in any of the decisions during the three minutes before the crash.

From the above two paragraphs (apparently carefully crafted), I can
understand that there was a pilot and a trainee. The second paragraph
above pointed out that the trainee "was not involved in any of the
decisions during the three minutes before the crash". That implies that
the trainee was making the decisions and operating the controls on
his/her own all the time, but was following orders from the pilot during
the three minutes before the crash. Everybody should understand that
when a pilot and a trainee pilot are present on the bridge of the ship,
the trainee pilot would be operating the controls (theoretically under
the supervision of the pilot, but generally that's not the case in real
life. The pilot would be drinking coffee, walking around, and yapping
with other people on the bridge). The trainee operating the controls is
how the trainee gets the experience in operating the controls.

From the first paragraph: "the pilot ordered a hard left rudder,
dropped the port anchor...". Apparently the pilot ordered the trainee to
drop the "port" anchor. From the crash video, the ship jerked to the
right and hit the bridge. If really the "port" anchor was dropped, the
ship would have jerked to the left. Apparently the trainee did not
understand "port" means left, and "starboard" means right, and dropped
the wrong anchor.

The ship's black box should reveal what the hell the trainee had done
and what buttons were pushed. I hope they have surveillance video of the
inside of the ship's bridge to see what the hell the pilot and the
trainee were doing the whole time.