On 4/6/2024 9:21 AM, bud-- wrote:
> On 4/6/2024 1:49 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> bud-- wrote on 4/5/2024 11:49 PM:
>>> On 4/5/2024 1:38 PM, bud-- wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2024 6:04 AM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>> On 4/5/2024 4:48 AM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 8:36 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>>>>> micky wrote on 4/3/2024 11:06 PM:
>>>>>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 3 Apr 2024 22:28:36 -0400, ? Mighty
>>>>>>>> Wannabe
>>>>>>>> ? <@.> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob F wrote on 4/3/2024 9:58 PM:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 6:30 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed P wrote on 4/3/2024 9:05 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 8:31 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob F wrote on 4/3/2024 7:59 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/2024 3:02 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> micky wrote on 4/3/2024 9:46 AM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can't find the thread about the Key Bridge being knocked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, but wanted to comment on the racist pigs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USA who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claimed it had something to do with seeking diversity in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shipping company hires.   What nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you notice that the news kept mentioning the "pilot"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the "captain"? The captain didn't hit the Baltimore Key
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bridge. The "pilot" who was working for Baltimore was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ship, not the captain. The pilot was hired to do just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because the pilot knows the water channel like the back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand. The pilot knows where the ship should avoid so that it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't run aground.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore authorities cannot sue the captain of the ship
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the ship, because the "pilot" who was steering the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ship worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Baltimore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The pilot did not hit the bridge, the ship hit the bridge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's power systems failed. You actually think that was the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pilots
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fault?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you like to have been the second pilot, who was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being trained?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. Good luck blaming
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else for the accident. The US will have to pick up the tab for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> third party liability (people hurt/killed as a result of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapse) and property damage (the bridge and the vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fell into the water).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How We Steer A Cargo Ship
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> He was at the helm, but the helm did not work. Can't pin
>>>>>>>>>>>> that on him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nice video.  Did you notice in the last minute that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> engines were
>>>>>>>>>>>> running and making power?  The ship that hit the bridge did
>>>>>>>>>>>> not have
>>>>>>>>>>>> that luxury.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. He might have accidentally
>>>>>>>>>>> killed
>>>>>>>>>>> the power by pushing the wrong button.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you Rod Speed??? You certainly have his stupid know it all
>>>>>>>>>> attitude.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I merely put forward the best, unbiased analysis of what caused
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> accident.
>>>>>>>> Might be unbiased, but definitely not the best analysis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other have answered pretty well but since you replied first to
>>>>>>>> my post,
>>>>>>>> I will take the bait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I were driving a Ford with 1000 miles on it, and the rack and
>>>>>>>> pinion
>>>>>>>> locked up so that I coudlnt' steer it, do you think I would be
>>>>>>>> liable
>>>>>>>> for the damages that followed or Ford would?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You were driving your own car. How's that relevant to the case of
>>>>>>> the Baltimore harbour pilots at the helm of a strange (or not so
>>>>>>> familiar) ship?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the same here.  Assuming the engine could have been turned
>>>>>>>> off, and
>>>>>>>> that the pilot had the power to do that, and he did it, that
>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>> the pilot and his employer liable. But you have to prove that by a
>>>>>>>> preponderance of the evidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there is a black box in ships like that. I think they got
>>>>>>> the hold of the black box.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.businessinsider.com/baltimore-bridge-collapse-cargo-ship-black-box-recovered-2024-3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could also be that the owner of the ship didn't maintain the
>>>>>>>> engines
>>>>>>>> properly and that caused the engines to stop.  That would make
>>>>>>>> the owner
>>>>>>>> liable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It worked fine all over the world until the Baltimore harbour
>>>>>>> pilots took over the helm. I'd blame the pilots first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could be, I hear, that the fuel they used was bad and that
>>>>>>>> made the
>>>>>>>> engnine and the electrical generating engines stop. That could
>>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>>> vendor of the fuel liable, unless maybe he took the standard
>>>>>>>> amount of
>>>>>>>> care but someone else not related to the fuel vendor intentionally
>>>>>>>> damaged the fuel.   Or it could be the fuel wholesaler or
>>>>>>>> producer made
>>>>>>>> bad fuel that fouled the engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bad fuel won't make the power go out and come back on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It could be that none of those parties were negligent but it
>>>>>>>> turns out
>>>>>>>> the electical generating engines fail at a certain age, and it
>>>>>>>> was that
>>>>>>>> old but they buyers weren't warned.   The maker of the engines
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> have known they fail at that age and not warned the buyers, or
>>>>>>>> maybe he
>>>>>>>> didn't know this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This does not explain why the power went out and came back on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are other things that could have caused this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fat finger pushing the wrong button?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pilot never touches any buttons, other than perhaps the switch
>>>>>> on a microphone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not clear from afar, and it's not even clear to those on
>>>>>>>> the scene,
>>>>>>>> if someone was at fault and if so, who it was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You keep trying to make excuses for the Baltimore harbour pilots
>>>>>>> when their human error is the most likely culprit of this disaster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You keep blaming the pilot, without an ounce of evidence or any
>>>>>> reasonable way a pilot could have caused the power failure(s).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the reports are made, equipment failure will most likely be
>>>>>> the cause, and the pilot is highly unlikely to be held
>>>>>> responsible, since there is nothing a pilot could do to cause
>>>>>> equipment failures. Some form of poor maintenance will likely be
>>>>>> cited as the cause, with crew operational mistakes being the most
>>>>>> likely alternative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "There were two ship pilots aboard the ship as it left its berth in
>>>>> the Port of Baltimore. Can you tell us what ship pilots do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Post: Ship pilots are brought on board in what are considered
>>>>> restricted maneuverability or navigation areas. They are local
>>>>> experts who are usually certified by the state or federal
>>>>> government to provide advice to the master of the vessel as to how
>>>>> to control the vessel, safely and adequately, through the pilotage
>>>>> waters, which in this case would be down the river from the Port of
>>>>> Baltimore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pilots are well practiced in close-quarters maneuvering, especially
>>>>> with tugboats and docking the vessel alongside the assigned berth.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a pilot doesn’t come aboard the ship and take control of it, do
>>>>> they?
>>>>>
>>>>> Post: They are just advisers to the captain, who is known as the
>>>>> “master.” The master still has full responsibility for the safe
>>>>> navigation of the vessel. So the pilot will meet the ship out at
>>>>> sea or at the dock if it’s in port and leaving to go to sea. They
>>>>> proceed up to the bridge. Usually they exchange greetings, and
>>>>> usually a little bit of ship’s swag is given, either a hat or
>>>>> something else, or at least a cup of coffee.
>>>>>
>>>>> They then set up their gear. With the electronics that we now have,
>>>>> they plug into the ship’s electronic chart data information system.
>>>>> And then they conduct the pilot exchange with the master of the
>>>>> vessel, where the master of the vessel describes where they are
>>>>> going, what the characteristics of the ship are, who’s on the
>>>>> bridge, what their first language is and the air draft of the
>>>>> vessel, which refers to how high out of the water the vessel is, so
>>>>> that you know whether you can take the ship under a bridge safely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once that’s completed, the pilot then starts instructing the
>>>>> officer of the watch or the captain – those are usually the same
>>>>> person – in how to get to where they need to be to dock the ship,
>>>>> or undock the ship and bring it to sea. This instructing is done
>>>>> during complex maneuvers, not all the time. The pilot can also say
>>>>> he’s not going to do it, and can shut down their operations if
>>>>> conditions are unsafe or if they feel that the vessel is not in
>>>>> condition to be able to transit safely. That happens a lot,
>>>>> especially in fog.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ship pilot also interacts with the Coast Guard Vessel Traffic
>>>>> Service and other ships in the area, and coordinates with the
>>>>> tugboats and line handlers to be able to safely maneuver the vessel
>>>>> close to the pier or when a ship is leaving the berth."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://today.tamu.edu/2024/03/26/how-captains-and-harbor-pilots-safely-guide-ships-into-port/
>>>>
>>>> Interesting description.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Stupid idea - that a pilot directly operates the controls of a ship
>>>> he has no experience operating. (If that is not completely obvious
>>>> read above.)
>>>>
>>>> Stupid idea - that there is a readily accessible easily operated
>>>> button on the bridge that will shut down the engines. (If I am
>>>> driving and push the car Run/Off button nothing happens.)
>>>>
>>>> Someone is competing for Ed's coveted Worst Post Ever award. With
>>>> stiff competition I don't think he has quite made it yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I may have accidentally deleted a Mighty Wannabe post, because I am a
>>> mouthbreathing idiot!!!
>>>
>>
>> Fear not!!!
>>
>>
>> This is my reply to ED P's post. Apparently a trainee pilot from
>> Baltimore port authority was handling all the maneuvers on the bridge
>> of the container ship, right until the crash:
>
> Still unable to read and understand what is in Bob F's post Wannabeatrol
> repeats the same delusional bullshit.
>
> Pilots do not operate the ship controls.

Big Thumb Wannabe Rod Speed is exactly performing as Rod Speed.
Repeating the exact same nonsense over and over as if that will make it
right despite the clear evidence he is wrong.

This Troll cannot learn, and is the perfect example of a classic
"know-it-all".