Do you still have the grizzly jointer?

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/grizzly-8-jointer-for-sale-in-dallas-tx-600-10169-.htm

On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 11:01:48 AM UTC-5, Andrew wrote:
> Do you still have the grizzly jointer?
>
> --
> For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/grizzly-8-jointer-for-sale-in-dallas-tx-600-10169-.htm

The original post is 17 years old.

On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 11:01:48 AM UTC-5, Andrew wrote:
> > Do you still have the grizzly jointer?
> >
> > --
> > For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/grizzly-8-jointer-for-sale-in-dallas-tx-600-10169-.htm
> The original post is 17 years old.

I know the original post is 17 years old. But that is sort of irrelevant to the conversation. Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?), 8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at the time was $6-800 or so. Not sure how old the for sale jointer was. Probably just a few years at most. So the seller was trying to get 75% or more of new price for a used, out of warranty(?) jointer.

Today, Grizzly is selling its 8" jointers for:
Grizzly G0947 - 8" Benchtop Jointer with Spiral-Type Cutterhead $425
Grizzly G0855 - 8" x 72" Jointer with Built-in Mobile Base $1,345
Grizzly G0857 - 8" x 76" Parallelogram Jointer with Mobile Base $1,795
Grizzly G0490X - 8" x 76" Jointer with Parallelogram Beds and Spiral Cutterhead $1,995
Grizzly G0856 - 8" x 72" Jointer with Helical Cutterhead & Mobile Base $2,045
Grizzly G0656X - 8" x 72" Jointer with Spiral Cutterhead $2,115

I am going to assume 17 years ago the jointer for sale was similar to the $1345 or maybe the $1795 jointers. Almost certainly the $1345 one. Straight blades since the helical ones now desired had hardly been invented at the time.

Personally, I think trying or expecting to get 75% or more of new price for a used Grizzly was too optimistic even 17 years ago. Grizzly is known for selling based on price. Not top quality or newest innovation. And today we still have the Covid supply side shortages. So used is holding its price because of limited new supply. But that is easing.

My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodworking equipment? Big equipment, not handheld tools. I know brand name is applicable. Lets say its Delta or Powermatic or General back when they were known as the mainstays. And its older technology. All mechanical. So no electronic scales or positioner or finger saving or LED lights. And straight cutters instead of spiral helical.

Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold? If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%? Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago? Look for an eBay sale and calculate your percentages in hindsight?

I know where you are located is also very important. If you are located on the North Dakota Canada border, you don't really have many potential customers within a two day drive. But if you are near Washington DC, you have millions of people in NYC, Philly, Newark, Baltimore, Virginia, all within a few hours of you.

"russellseaton1@yahoo.com" <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> writes:
>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=

>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
>ing equipment?

Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.

On 11/2/2022 5:19 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

> My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodworking equipment? Big equipment, not handheld tools. I know brand name is applicable. Lets say its Delta or Powermatic or General back when they were known as the mainstays. And its older technology. All mechanical. So no electronic scales or positioner or finger saving or LED lights. And straight cutters instead of spiral helical.

I've seen some heavy machinery (I am thinking of old metal lathes, and
equipment) basically available for your cost of moving it. But anything
on Craigslist will be overpriced! : )

If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%? Or
percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago? Look for an eBay
sale and calculate your percentages in hindsight?
>

On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>"russellseaton1@yahoo.com" <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
>
>>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
>>ing equipment?
>
>Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
>

Yep.
Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
.. even within a certain geographic area.
John T.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
> >
> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
> >>ing equipment?
> >
> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
> >
> Yep.
> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
> .. even within a certain geographic area.
> John T.

I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere.. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.

So my question is "what is the starting price"?

Yes I know there are many variables involved. Brand, age, type of equipment, etc, etc, etc. Is there a general set of rules to start with? And I did give some parameters before. Mainstay brand, Delta, Powermatic, bigger main shop equipment such as tablesaw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, and 30 years old I will add. Back when everything was mechanical and really unchanged from the way things were 10-20-30-40 years before that.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:35:26 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> On 11/2/2022 5:19 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodworking equipment? Big equipment, not handheld tools. I know brand name is applicable. Lets say its Delta or Powermatic or General back when they were known as the mainstays. And its older technology. All mechanical. So no electronic scales or positioner or finger saving or LED lights. And straight cutters instead of spiral helical.
> I've seen some heavy machinery (I am thinking of old metal lathes, and
> equipment) basically available for your cost of moving it. But anything
> on Craigslist will be overpriced! : )

Yes. I have seen 1950s era metal working lathes that are 10 feet long and 5 tons being sold for essentially scrap steel prices. But I am talking about woodworking machines used and owned by people and kept in their garage or basement. The typical recreational woodworker machines and tools. Stuff you can go to your local woodworking store and see on the floor and buy.

As for your comment about Craigslist, that is why I am asking this question.. You assume its overpriced if its on Craigslist. But what is the correct price then? If the Craigslist person had some better rules or guides, then maybe they could list it at the right price instead of overpriced.

> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%? Or
> percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago? Look for an eBay
> sale and calculate your percentages in hindsight?
> >

On 11/3/2022 4:06 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:35:26 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
>> On 11/2/2022 5:19 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodworking equipment? Big equipment, not handheld tools. I know brand name is applicable. Lets say its Delta or Powermatic or General back when they were known as the mainstays. And its older technology. All mechanical. So no electronic scales or positioner or finger saving or LED lights. And straight cutters instead of spiral helical.
>> I've seen some heavy machinery (I am thinking of old metal lathes, and
>> equipment) basically available for your cost of moving it. But anything
>> on Craigslist will be overpriced! : )
>
> Yes. I have seen 1950s era metal working lathes that are 10 feet long and 5 tons being sold for essentially scrap steel prices. But I am talking about woodworking machines used and owned by people and kept in their garage or basement. The typical recreational woodworker machines and tools. Stuff you can go to your local woodworking store and see on the floor and buy.
>
> As for your comment about Craigslist, that is why I am asking this question. You assume its overpriced if its on Craigslist. But what is the correct price then? If the Craigslist person had some better rules or guides, then maybe they could list it at the right price instead of overpriced.

Do you watch the stock market at all? ROKU is down 15% to from 54 to 46
today since YESTERDAY--Down from 490 (!) in July 2021. If you can
explain to me why it is down MORE THAN 90% since then, then you will
have the answer to your question in the palm of your hand! ; )

And, what I described above occurred in a "liquid market".
If you worked in a factory building a certain brand of machinery, it may
be worth more to you than someone who worked in a competing factory.
The old machinery you are interested in often goes for more far away
from big industrial cities, such as Chicago, as it is more scarce away
from Chicago.

It is often said that no one knows the value of a product more than the
seller, but that is just a rule of thumb. What I've written here is
clearly just the "tip of the iceberg", but I hope that it helps.

One last thought--"How many different versions of "Kelly's Blue Book"
for autos are there? One for buyers, one for sellers, et cetera. Ask
someone who used to work in a dealership, or similar, about the value of
a car! %-)

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
>> >
>> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
>> >>ing equipment?
>> >
>> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
>> >
>> Yep.
>> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
>> .. even within a certain geographic area.
>> John T.
>
>I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.

No, in every sale the buyer and seller agree on the price. That's the
definition of capitalism. It's why it's the best system ever
invented. Both the buyer and seller are happy.

If the seller asks for $1M and the seller will only pay $1, neither is
happy and the sale doesn't happen. If the seller is asking $1 and the
buyer was willing to pay $1M, the sale happens and, once again,
everyone is happy. No negotiation is required.

I don't negotiate for a Big Mac. I pay what the seller is asking, we
exchange my $20 for his Big Mac and we both walk away happy.

>So my question is "what is the starting price"?

That's an entirely different question. Selling a house, you find a
"comp" and use that as a guide. If you can't find a "comp", you're
pretty well lost. You haven't got a good way to price the house. The
buyer is in the same pickle. That's exactly the situation you're in
now. It doesn't mean that it's not worth exactly what someone is
willing to pay. That 'is the definition of "worth".

>Yes I know there are many variables involved. Brand, age, type of equipment, etc, etc, etc. Is there a general set of rules to start with? And I did give some parameters before. Mainstay brand, Delta, Powermatic, bigger main shop equipment such as tablesaw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, and 30 years old I will add. Back when everything was mechanical and really unchanged from the way things were 10-20-30-40 years before that.

Look for a "comp". If you can't find one, guess and see if anyone
bites. If not, you guessed too high. If someone snatches it up, you
both walk away happy because you got what you wanted for it and he got
it for what he was willing to pay. It's "worth" has been established.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:14:27 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> >> wrote:
> >> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
> >> >
> >> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
> >> >>ing equipment?
> >> >
> >> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
> >> >
> >> Yep.
> >> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
> >> .. even within a certain geographic area.
> >> John T.
> >
> >I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.
> No, in every sale the buyer and seller agree on the price. That's the
> definition of capitalism. It's why it's the best system ever
> invented. Both the buyer and seller are happy.

Not always. Just because they "agree" on a price, it doesn't mean that
both sides of the party are happy.

Sometimes the seller has to sell at a price that makes him unhappy
because no one is willing to pay his happy price. He won't be happy
if he doesn't sell it either, so he sells it at a lower price and is unhappy.

Sometimes a buyer has to pay a price that makes him unhappy because
availability is limited. Sometimes he just doesn't want to spend what the
going price is regardless of availability, but he needs what is being sold.

There are other combinations/situations where one or the other party might
not be happy even after a price has been agreed upon.

Are both sides happy over at that tweet company? ;-)

>
> If the seller asks for $1M and the seller will only pay $1, neither is
> happy and the sale doesn't happen. If the seller is asking $1 and the
> buyer was willing to pay $1M, the sale happens and, once again,
> everyone is happy. No negotiation is required.
>
> I don't negotiate for a Big Mac. I pay what the seller is asking, we
> exchange my $20 for his Big Mac and we both walk away happy.
> >So my question is "what is the starting price"?
> That's an entirely different question. Selling a house, you find a
> "comp" and use that as a guide. If you can't find a "comp", you're
> pretty well lost. You haven't got a good way to price the house. The
> buyer is in the same pickle. That's exactly the situation you're in
> now. It doesn't mean that it's not worth exactly what someone is
> willing to pay. That 'is the definition of "worth".
> >Yes I know there are many variables involved. Brand, age, type of equipment, etc, etc, etc. Is there a general set of rules to start with? And I did give some parameters before. Mainstay brand, Delta, Powermatic, bigger main shop equipment such as tablesaw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, and 30 years old I will add. Back when everything was mechanical and really unchanged from the way things were 10-20-30-40 years before that.
> Look for a "comp". If you can't find one, guess and see if anyone
> bites. If not, you guessed too high. If someone snatches it up, you
> both walk away happy because you got what you wanted for it and he got
> it for what he was willing to pay. It's "worth" has been established.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 20:15:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:14:27 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
>> >> >
>> >> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
>> >> >>ing equipment?
>> >> >
>> >> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
>> >> >
>> >> Yep.
>> >> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
>> >> .. even within a certain geographic area.
>> >> John T.
>> >
>> >I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.
>> No, in every sale the buyer and seller agree on the price. That's the
>> definition of capitalism. It's why it's the best system ever
>> invented. Both the buyer and seller are happy.
>
>Not always. Just because they "agree" on a price, it doesn't mean that
>both sides of the party are happy.

Is someone forced into the transaction?

>Sometimes the seller has to sell at a price that makes him unhappy
>because no one is willing to pay his happy price. He won't be happy
>if he doesn't sell it either, so he sells it at a lower price and is unhappy.

If he weren't happy with the transaction he wouldn't make it. He may
not be happy with the situation that forced the issue,

>Sometimes a buyer has to pay a price that makes him unhappy because
>availability is limited. Sometimes he just doesn't want to spend what the
>going price is regardless of availability, but he needs what is being sold.
>There are other combinations/situations where one or the other party might
>not be happy even after a price has been agreed upon.
>
>Are both sides happy over at that tweet company? ;-)

Yes, in fact they are. ...it wouldn't have closed. If I were paid
last year's price for my stock portfolio today, you bet I'd be happy.
The other side gets the control he desires at the price it was worth
to him.
>>
>> If the seller asks for $1M and the seller will only pay $1, neither is
>> happy and the sale doesn't happen. If the seller is asking $1 and the
>> buyer was willing to pay $1M, the sale happens and, once again,
>> everyone is happy. No negotiation is required.
>>
>> I don't negotiate for a Big Mac. I pay what the seller is asking, we
>> exchange my $20 for his Big Mac and we both walk away happy.
>> >So my question is "what is the starting price"?
>> That's an entirely different question. Selling a house, you find a
>> "comp" and use that as a guide. If you can't find a "comp", you're
>> pretty well lost. You haven't got a good way to price the house. The
>> buyer is in the same pickle. That's exactly the situation you're in
>> now. It doesn't mean that it's not worth exactly what someone is
>> willing to pay. That 'is the definition of "worth".
>> >Yes I know there are many variables involved. Brand, age, type of equipment, etc, etc, etc. Is there a general set of rules to start with? And I did give some parameters before. Mainstay brand, Delta, Powermatic, bigger main shop equipment such as tablesaw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, and 30 years old I will add. Back when everything was mechanical and really unchanged from the way things were 10-20-30-40 years before that.
>> Look for a "comp". If you can't find one, guess and see if anyone
>> bites. If not, you guessed too high. If someone snatches it up, you
>> both walk away happy because you got what you wanted for it and he got
>> it for what he was willing to pay. It's "worth" has been established.

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>
>I know the original post is 17 years old.
> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>

Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
- closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
Start your dadabase / study.

https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100

Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
.... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
John T.

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:27:08 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 20:15:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:14:27 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail..com wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail..com wrote=
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
> >> >> >>ing equipment?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
> >> >> >
> >> >> Yep.
> >> >> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
> >> >> .. even within a certain geographic area.
> >> >> John T.
> >> >
> >> >I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere.. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.
> >> No, in every sale the buyer and seller agree on the price. That's the
> >> definition of capitalism. It's why it's the best system ever
> >> invented. Both the buyer and seller are happy.
> >
> >Not always. Just because they "agree" on a price, it doesn't mean that
> >both sides of the party are happy.
> Is someone forced into the transaction?

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t matter.

I’m sure you’ve made choices in life that didn’t make you happy that
you weren’t “forced” into making. You settled. Lessor of two evils, that
sort of thing. Compromises don’t always end with both parties saying
“I’m happy with that solution.” Neither do all buy/sell transactions.

> >Sometimes the seller has to sell at a price that makes him unhappy
> >because no one is willing to pay his happy price. He won't be happy
> >if he doesn't sell it either, so he sells it at a lower price and is unhappy.
> If he weren't happy with the transaction he wouldn't make it.

Gotta call BS on that one. Sometimes we choose to settle.

I have an extra snowblower. I’m not going to get what I want for it, but
I’d rather not have it taking up space in my garage. I’m not forced to
sell it either, but I’m choosing to not have it take up room in my garage.
(not forced, choosing) I won’t be happy with the price I’ll get, but I will
either sell it for less than I’ll be happy about or I’ll donate it. That won’t
make me happy either, but it’ll make me less unhappy than selling it to
some cheap bastard. I’ll accept a reasonable price, but I won’t get my
happy price.

> He may
> not be happy with the situation that forced the issue,
> >Sometimes a buyer has to pay a price that makes him unhappy because
> >availability is limited. Sometimes he just doesn't want to spend what the
> >going price is regardless of availability, but he needs what is being sold.
>
> >There are other combinations/situations where one or the other party might
> >not be happy even after a price has been agreed upon.
> >
> >Are both sides happy over at that tweet company? ;-)
> Yes, in fact they are. ...it wouldn't have closed.

Gotta call BS on that one too. Just about every employee was paid some
portion of their salary in stock, making them partial owners. Some of them
may have voted for the deal, but many of them didn’t. ~3700 of the ~7500
partial owners were laid off today. Even if they voted for the deal, they aren’t
very happy today, and they probably weren’t happy the day the deal closed
because they were already worried about losing their jobs.

One guy was attending a meeting via conference call when his line went dead..
Laid off by disconnect. My guess? Not happy.

> If I were paid
> last year's price for my stock portfolio today, you bet I'd be happy.

Even if it cost you your job?

> The other side gets the control he desires at the price it was worth
> to him.

You do know that he tried to back out of the deal, right? He’s complained
for months that the price was too high. He only changed his mind to avoid
a trial that he was expected to lose and immediately started gutting the
company in an effort to save money.

Major advertisers have already paused spending on Twitter and Musk is
bitching that anyone advising companies to stop advertising is trying
to stifle free speech.

You really think he’s “happy” right now? Read his tweets.

> >>
> >> If the seller asks for $1M and the seller will only pay $1, neither is
> >> happy and the sale doesn't happen. If the seller is asking $1 and the
> >> buyer was willing to pay $1M, the sale happens and, once again,
> >> everyone is happy. No negotiation is required.
> >>
> >> I don't negotiate for a Big Mac. I pay what the seller is asking, we
> >> exchange my $20 for his Big Mac and we both walk away happy.
> >> >So my question is "what is the starting price"?
> >> That's an entirely different question. Selling a house, you find a
> >> "comp" and use that as a guide. If you can't find a "comp", you're
> >> pretty well lost. You haven't got a good way to price the house. The
> >> buyer is in the same pickle. That's exactly the situation you're in
> >> now. It doesn't mean that it's not worth exactly what someone is
> >> willing to pay. That 'is the definition of "worth".
> >> >Yes I know there are many variables involved. Brand, age, type of equipment, etc, etc, etc. Is there a general set of rules to start with? And I did give some parameters before. Mainstay brand, Delta, Powermatic, bigger main shop equipment such as tablesaw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, and 30 years old I will add. Back when everything was mechanical and really unchanged from the way things were 10-20-30-40 years before that.
> >> Look for a "comp". If you can't find one, guess and see if anyone
> >> bites. If not, you guessed too high. If someone snatches it up, you
> >> both walk away happy because you got what you wanted for it and he got
> >> it for what he was willing to pay. It's "worth" has been established.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 22:35:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:27:08 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 20:15:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:14:27 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:40:55 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:29:21 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >"russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> >> >>On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:58:00 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote=
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>My question is what is the correct selling, market price for older woodwork=
>> >> >> >>ing equipment?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Whatever a buyer and a seller agree on.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Yep.
>> >> >> Too many variables to try to formulate a rule-of-thumb.
>> >> >> .. even within a certain geographic area.
>> >> >> John T.
>> >> >
>> >> >I am not happy with Scott Lurndal's response. How would the seller and buyer even agree if they did not meet or communicate with each other? Usually when selling things, the seller offers an item for a price. And then the buyer contacts the seller to purchase it at the asking price or negotiate a price. But if the seller asks $1 million dollars, then I doubt the potential buyer would even bother to contact the seller. So how would they ever agree on a price? Most buying, selling, negotiating has to start somewhere. So a price needs to be chosen in the beginning to even have the buyer and seller talk so they can reach an agreement.
>> >> No, in every sale the buyer and seller agree on the price. That's the
>> >> definition of capitalism. It's why it's the best system ever
>> >> invented. Both the buyer and seller are happy.
>> >
>> >Not always. Just because they "agree" on a price, it doesn't mean that
>> >both sides of the party are happy.
>> Is someone forced into the transaction?
>
>Maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t matter.
>
>I’m sure you’ve made choices in life that didn’t make you happy that
>you weren’t “forced” into making. You settled. Lessor of two evils, that
>sort of thing. Compromises don’t always end with both parties saying
>“I’m happy with that solution.” Neither do all buy/sell transactions.
>
>> >Sometimes the seller has to sell at a price that makes him unhappy
>> >because no one is willing to pay his happy price. He won't be happy
>> >if he doesn't sell it either, so he sells it at a lower price and is unhappy.
>> If he weren't happy with the transaction he wouldn't make it.
>
>Gotta call BS on that one. Sometimes we choose to settle.

Then you're happy with the transaction.

>I have an extra snowblower. I’m not going to get what I want for it, but
>I’d rather not have it taking up space in my garage. I’m not forced to
>sell it either, but I’m choosing to not have it take up room in my garage.
>(not forced, choosing) I won’t be happy with the price I’ll get, but I will
>either sell it for less than I’ll be happy about or I’ll donate it. That won’t
>make me happy either, but it’ll make me less unhappy than selling it to
>some cheap bastard. I’ll accept a reasonable price, but I won’t get my
>happy price.

Yeah, I'd be happy to get $10M for my house too but no one is going to
pay that and I'm not willing to sell for what the comps say. The deal
doesn't happen. Your prospective customer isn't going to pay the
original price for your snowblower so the transaction doesn't happen.
If you settle for less you're happy that you got something and don't
have two. ...or you'd just keep the spare.
>
>> He may
>> not be happy with the situation that forced the issue,
>> >Sometimes a buyer has to pay a price that makes him unhappy because
>> >availability is limited. Sometimes he just doesn't want to spend what the
>> >going price is regardless of availability, but he needs what is being sold.
>>
>> >There are other combinations/situations where one or the other party might
>> >not be happy even after a price has been agreed upon.
>> >
>> >Are both sides happy over at that tweet company? ;-)
>> Yes, in fact they are. ...it wouldn't have closed.
>
>Gotta call BS on that one too. Just about every employee was paid some
>portion of their salary in stock, making them partial owners. Some of them
>may have voted for the deal, but many of them didn’t. ~3700 of the ~7500
>partial owners were laid off today. Even if they voted for the deal, they aren’t
>very happy today, and they probably weren’t happy the day the deal closed
>because they were already worried about losing their jobs.

Ever hear of a democracy? They got to vote their shares. They could
have sold at any time. They may not be happy but it has nothing to do
with the sale price.
>
>One guy was attending a meeting via conference call when his line went dead.
>Laid off by disconnect. My guess? Not happy.

Which had nothing to do with the sale. People are deemed superfluous
all the time.
>
>> If I were paid
>> last year's price for my stock portfolio today, you bet I'd be happy.
>
>Even if it cost you your job?

You bet, though that's irrelevant. It wouldn't take me another ten
years (actually, it'll never happen) to recover.
>
>> The other side gets the control he desires at the price it was worth
>> to him.
>
>You do know that he tried to back out of the deal, right? He’s complained
>for months that the price was too high. He only changed his mind to avoid
>a trial that he was expected to lose and immediately started gutting the
>company in an effort to save money.

It's called "negotiation" and it's not done yet.
>
>Major advertisers have already paused spending on Twitter and Musk is
>bitching that anyone advising companies to stop advertising is trying
>to stifle free speech.

He's not wrong but advertisers are customers.
>
>You really think he’s “happy” right now? Read his tweets.

I think he's played poker at the big table before. Yes, I think he's
happy.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>
>>I know the original post is 17 years old.
>> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
>> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>>
>
>
> Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
> - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
>Start your dadabase / study.
>
>https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
>
>Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
>... then convert from Canadian dollars ..

It looks like a lot of junk to me.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 20:45:03 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>
>>>I know the original post is 17 years old.
>>> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>>>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>>>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
>>> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>>>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
>> - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
>>Start your dadabase / study.
>>
>>https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
>>
>>Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
>>... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
>
>It looks like a lot of junk to me.

Which don't you like - the Festool, Veritas, Jessem ..
Fein, Hettech, Porter Cable, ..
I guess some folks just have higher standards than others ..
John T.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 20:43:21 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>Ever hear of a democracy? They got to vote their shares. They could
>have sold at any time. They may not be happy but it has nothing to do
>with the sale price.

Do not think Musk is going to be happy with having to pay out One
Billion in interest per year out of Twitters profits and given that
twitter has only posted a profit in 2018 and 2019 might be digging in
other pockets.

Great deal for those who sold, best guess for the buyers (Musk has
investors) it going to be a ruff ride, but the banks will make money.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:45:07 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>
> >>I know the original post is 17 years old.
> >> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
> >>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
> >>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
> >> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
> >>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
> > - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
> >Start your dadabase / study.
> >
> >https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
> >
> >Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
> >... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
> It looks like a lot of junk to me.

Some of it was junk. But there was also a lot of quality pieces too. When I looked at all the pictures I kind of saw my own tool collection. Sort of. Lot of stuff of all types. Some high end, some middle end, and some low end. Wide variety. I bet almost everyone here if they had their stuff listed like this auction, it would look the same. I bet we all have some nice tools and some medium they got the job done tools too. And all of the other random stuff every tool person collects over the decades.

The auction makes me kind of sad. If all my treasures were disposed of like this, in a mass auction, it would not bring the correct price. Much better to dispose of everything in a meticulous manner piece by piece. Then you might optimize the valuable items. Still lose on the lower items and most of the medium items. But your odds would be better for maximizing the total return. This big auction and everything goes quick is not a good way to sell tools.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 2:36:05 AM UTC-5, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:45:07 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> > >>
> > >>I know the original post is 17 years old.
> > >> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
> > >>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
> > >>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
> > >> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
> > >>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
> > > - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
> > >Start your dadabase / study.
> > >
> > >https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
> > >
> > >Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
> > >... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
> > It looks like a lot of junk to me.
> Some of it was junk. But there was also a lot of quality pieces too. When I looked at all the pictures I kind of saw my own tool collection. Sort of.. Lot of stuff of all types. Some high end, some middle end, and some low end. Wide variety. I bet almost everyone here if they had their stuff listed like this auction, it would look the same. I bet we all have some nice tools and some medium they got the job done tools too. And all of the other random stuff every tool person collects over the decades.
>
> The auction makes me kind of sad. If all my treasures were disposed of like this, in a mass auction, it would not bring the correct price. Much better to dispose of everything in a meticulous manner piece by piece. Then you might optimize the valuable items. Still lose on the lower items and most of the medium items. But your odds would be better for maximizing the total return. This big auction and everything goes quick is not a good way to sell tools.

And if done your way, most people would still not be 100% happy. At best, satisfied. And tired. ;-)

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 00:36:03 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 7:45:07 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >>
>> >>I know the original post is 17 years old.
>> >> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>> >>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>> >>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
>> >> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>> >>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
>> > - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
>> >Start your dadabase / study.
>> >https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
>> >Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
>> >... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
>>
>> It looks like a lot of junk to me.
>>
>
>Some of it was junk. But there was also a lot of quality pieces too.
> When I looked at all the pictures I kind of saw my own tool collection.
> Lot of stuff of all types. Some high end, some middle end, and some low end.
>The auction makes me kind of sad.
> If all my treasures were disposed of like this, in a mass auction,
> it would not bring the correct price.
>Much better to dispose of everything in a meticulous manner piece by piece.
>Then you might optimize the valuable items.
>Still lose on the lower items and most of the medium items.
>But your odds would be better for maximizing the total return.
>This big auction and everything goes quick is not a good way to sell tools.
>

Seriously ?
Can you imagine trying to sell off this much stuff through
online classified sites < CraigsList, Kijiji, Facebook etc .. >
.... there are 382 auction lots - how many online arses are
you going to be forced to meet and haggle with ?
If we just look at clamps - he has almost 100 - arranged in
about a dozen lots .. I can see it taking forever to get top dollar
for them by selling through online classified sites - in the process
you'd be dealing with low-ballers and people who want 2-of-those
and 2-of-these .. agreeing to come for them and not showing up..
etc etc
.. and then you've only sold the clamps - you've just begun !
.. uuugggh .. shudder ..
Usually the final selling prices are shown the day-after
the sale closes - I strongly suspect that this guy will get fair
dollar for most of his stuff - and it will be all gone on the
scheduled pick-up day. No fuss, no muss, no dickering.
It's by-far the best way < the only way > to sell
such a large quantity of stuff.
John T.

hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 20:45:03 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>
>>>>I know the original post is 17 years old.
>>>> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>>>>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>>>>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
>>>> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>>>>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
>>> - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
>>>Start your dadabase / study.
>>>
>>>https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
>>>
>>>Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
>>>... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
>>
>>It looks like a lot of junk to me.
>
>
> Which don't you like - the Festool, Veritas, Jessem ..
> Fein, Hettech, Porter Cable, ..

Not to mention the very nice workbench, or the Delta DJ-20 (currently at CAD105).

On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 21:47:52 -0500, Markem618 <markrm618@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 20:43:21 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>Ever hear of a democracy? They got to vote their shares. They could
>>have sold at any time. They may not be happy but it has nothing to do
>>with the sale price.
>
>Do not think Musk is going to be happy with having to pay out One
>Billion in interest per year out of Twitters profits and given that
>twitter has only posted a profit in 2018 and 2019 might be digging in
>other pockets.

Yes. ...but the fat lady hasn't even gotten to the podium yet.

>Great deal for those who sold, best guess for the buyers (Musk has
>investors) it going to be a ruff ride, but the banks will make money.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 22:17:30 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 20:45:03 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:15:47 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>
>>>>I know the original post is 17 years old.
>>>> Back in 2005 a person was trying to sell a used, slightly(?),
>>>>8" Grizzly jointer for $600 and its new retail price at
>>>>Do you establish a price based on percentage of a similar new model being sold?
>>>> If there even is a similar new model being sold today. 10%? 50%?
>>>>Or percentage of what you paid new years or decades ago?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's some woodworking stuff at auction near me -
>>> - closing on Wed. Nov. 9 2022.
>>>Start your dadabase / study.
>>>
>>>https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/catalog/407805/nov-9-22-lisbon-online-auction/?ipp=100
>>>
>>>Don't forget to add 15 % auctioneer fee and then 13 % sales tax.
>>>... then convert from Canadian dollars ..
>>
>>It looks like a lot of junk to me.
>
>
> Which don't you like - the Festool, Veritas, Jessem ..
> Fein, Hettech, Porter Cable, ..
> I guess some folks just have higher standards than others ..
> John T.
>
I didn't see anything in there but beat-up junk. Porter Cable, yeah,
bottom of the junk pile and getting worse. They had some decent
routers and dovetail jigs but no more.

> Some of it was junk. But there was also a lot of quality pieces too. When I looked at all the pictures I kind of saw my own tool collection. Sort of.. Lot of stuff of all types. Some high end, some middle end, and some >low end. Wide variety. I bet almost everyone here if they had their stuff listed like this auction, it would look the same. I bet we all have some nice tools and some medium they got the job done tools too. And all of the >other random stuff every tool person collects over the decades.
>
> The auction makes me kind of sad. If all my treasures were disposed of like this, in a mass auction, it would not bring the correct price. Much better to dispose of everything in a meticulous manner piece by piece. >Then you might optimize the valuable items. Still lose on the lower items and most of the medium items. But your odds would be better for maximizing the total return. This big auction and everything goes quick is >not a good way to sell tools.

I plan on being around another 20+ years so I have taken a different approach to my "stuff." I've given my sons and friends a lot of tools and other things and downsized. At the same time I've also gotten a lot of better tools... e.g., replaced all my screwdrivers (except the L-N), pliers, electrical tools, etc. with Klein and Knipex and got a new rolling tool cabinet. Once I had all the new stuff I regretted not doing it sooner as the tools work so much better than those I replaced!

That said, regarding seller/buyer satisfaction, what is somewhat/often times over looked are the opportunity costs of holding out for the last dollar, or holding out to save the last dollar. For one thing, time can not be recouped. Not taking a bit less has opportunity costs too... other opportunities may be missed or the market my dry up. I recently responded to a "wanted" ad and offer the guy stuff for free. While on the phone with him I found out he needed something else I had and offered him that for free too... He drove 40 miles one way and insisted on paying me for the stuff. Market value was probably in the $100-120 range and we both knew it. I said $30... he gave me $40 and was thrilled to have the stuff. I bought lunch. We were both happy. 😉