On 2024-03-01 17:17, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> lar3ryca wrote:
>
>> That's annoying, to say the least. The other annoyance is 'celebrities'
>> who are referred to by their first name only, or worse, by a concoction
>> consisting of portions of their names. I kept hearing about 'Arod' and
>> 'Jaylo' for months before I found out who they were.
>
> In a tv program about computers one might hear "see plus plus". Do you
> think that that is annoying to many people? Or is it just in both cases
> a question of where your interest lies?

It may well be. Everyone is free to be annoyed by anything they choose.

--
I went to a restaurant that serves “breakfast at any time”.
So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.

On 02-Mar-24 22:07, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2024-03-01 17:17, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>>> That's annoying, to say the least. The other annoyance is 'celebrities'
>>> who are referred to by their first name only, or worse, by a concoction
>>> consisting of portions of their names. I kept hearing about 'Arod' and
>>> 'Jaylo' for months before I found out who they were.
>>
>> In a tv program about computers one might hear "see plus plus". Do you
>> think that that is annoying to many people? Or is it just in both cases
>> a question of where your interest lies?
>
> It may well be. Everyone is free to be annoyed by anything they choose.
>
There should be some limits.

Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled:
"This cutlery is cold."

(aka silverware for some North Americans)
--
Sam Plusnet

On 04/03/24 05:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled: "This
> cutlery is cold."
>
> (aka silverware for some North Americans)

AusE makes a distinction between "cutlery" and "silver cutlery". Only
relatively wealthy people have the latter.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan wrote:

>> Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled: "This
>> cutlery is cold."
>>
>> (aka silverware for some North Americans)
>
> AusE makes a distinction between "cutlery" and "silver cutlery". Only
> relatively wealthy people have the latter.

I think that Danish does as well - "sølvtøj" eller "knivtøj" - but my
mother always said "sølvtøj" though we didn't have even one piece of
silver, so that is what I call it. It was only decades into my adulthood
that my "sølvtøj" made someone laugh and educate me.

About Danish:
The word "tøj" has two completely different meanings (it's actually two
words). As a stand-alone word it means "clothes", but as a suffix it
means something like "-tool". German has a specific word for the latter
meaning, "-zeug".

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 2024-03-01, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 01-Mar-24 1:18, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2024-02-29 17:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 01/03/24 03:10, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-29 01:01, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
>>>>>> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
>>>>>> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
>>>>>> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.
>>>>>
>>>>> Changes in the meaning of words in different regions are often
>>>>> difficult
>>>>> to explain. Take the word "famous" which is "famøs" in Danish, but
>>>>> while
>>>>> "famous" is positive, "famøs" is not. A "famøs" person is sort of
>>>>> well-known, but not for their qualities.
>>>>
>>>> We need a word like "famøs" to more easily say "He is famous for being
>>>> famous."
>>>
>>> We already have the word "notorious".
>>
>> Fair enough, but I won't use it in that sense, due to there being too
>> many other related meanings.
>>
> Only today my wife commented that people now use "infamous" where they
> simply mean "famous".
> Her example was
> "Try our infamous recipe for" <some dish>.

It might be a warning!

--
A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs.
Kill him. ---Ivan Stang

On 2024-03-02, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 15:39:21 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>>On 2024-03-01 05:14, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-29, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>
>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves:
>>>>> Name Jr.
>>>>> or
>>>>> Name II
>>>
>>> II generally means the child is named after a living relative other
>>> than his father.
>>
>>In my experience, it generally (in Canada) means that he has the same
>>first name as his father.
>>
> More than that. The person has both the same first name and middle
> name as the father. John David Jones's son John William Jones would
> not be a "Jr".

I meant named "all the way", not just partly. But lar3ryca's comment
is interesting --- I was always under the impression that John David
Jones Jr has the same name as his father whereas John David Jones II
has the same name as some living relative *other than* his
father. (This applies to one of my university friends.)

Maybe people also use "II" because it sounds more dignified than
"Junior".

--
The [music] business would be a good thing, except that it's
dominated by drug addicts and businessmen. ---Tom Scholz

On Mon, 04 Mar 2024 14:45:26 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-03-02, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 15:39:21 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2024-03-01 05:14, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-29, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves:
>>>>>> Name Jr.
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> Name II
>>>>
>>>> II generally means the child is named after a living relative other
>>>> than his father.
>>>
>>>In my experience, it generally (in Canada) means that he has the same
>>>first name as his father.
>>>
>> More than that. The person has both the same first name and middle
>> name as the father. John David Jones's son John William Jones would
>> not be a "Jr".
>
>I meant named "all the way", not just partly. But lar3ryca's comment
>is interesting --- I was always under the impression that John David
>Jones Jr has the same name as his father whereas John David Jones II
>has the same name as some living relative *other than* his
>father. (This applies to one of my university friends.)
>
>Maybe people also use "II" because it sounds more dignified than
>"Junior".

As far as I know, the choice of "Jr" or "II" is simply the preference
of the parents when naming the child.

On my mother's side of the family, there was a "Hugh Second" and a
"Hugh Third". That what was used when speaking about them. I don't
know what was on their birth certificates or what they signed on
formal documents.

Hugh Second was elderly at the time, so his father was never mentioned
in my hearing. I don't know if he was ever "Hugh First" or just
"Hugh".

The male offspring of "Hugh Third" was named "David", so no
continuation of the naming came forth.

Adam Funk wrote:

> On 2024-03-02, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 15:39:21 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2024-03-01 05:14, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-29, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves:
>>>>>> Name Jr.
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> Name II
>>>>
>>>> II generally means the child is named after a living relative other
>>>> than his father.
>>>
>>>In my experience, it generally (in Canada) means that he has the same
>>>first name as his father.
>>>
>> More than that. The person has both the same first name and middle
>> name as the father. John David Jones's son John William Jones would
>> not be a "Jr".

My XBIL, I'm told, signed checks with "Jr." for years before he found
out his middle name was different from his father's.

But this is all a matter of custom, not law.

> I meant named "all the way", not just partly. But lar3ryca's comment
> is interesting --- I was always under the impression that John David
> Jones Jr has the same name as his father whereas John David Jones II
> has the same name as some living relative *other than* his
> father. (This applies to one of my university friends.)

> Maybe people also use "II" because it sounds more dignified than
> "Junior".

I have the feeling, with no evidence, that some people switch from
Jr. to II when they engender a III.

When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
"Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
uniforms.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 2024-03-04 08:42, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2024-03-01, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> On 01-Mar-24 1:18, lar3ryca wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-29 17:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 01/03/24 03:10, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-02-29 01:01, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
>>>>>>> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
>>>>>>> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
>>>>>>> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changes in the meaning of words in different regions are often
>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>> to explain. Take the word "famous" which is "famøs" in Danish, but
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> "famous" is positive, "famøs" is not. A "famøs" person is sort of
>>>>>> well-known, but not for their qualities.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need a word like "famøs" to more easily say "He is famous for being
>>>>> famous."
>>>>
>>>> We already have the word "notorious".
>>>
>>> Fair enough, but I won't use it in that sense, due to there being too
>>> many other related meanings.
>>>
>> Only today my wife commented that people now use "infamous" where they
>> simply mean "famous".
>> Her example was
>> "Try our infamous recipe for" <some dish>.
>
> It might be a warning!

Tes! Like "Infamous maple syrup".

--
Yeah, Windows is great... I used it to download Linux.

On 04-Mar-24 19:09, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2024-03-04 08:42, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2024-03-01, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>>> On 01-Mar-24 1:18, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-29 17:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> On 01/03/24 03:10, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-02-29 01:01, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
>>>>>>>> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
>>>>>>>> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
>>>>>>>> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changes in the meaning of words in different regions are often
>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>> to explain. Take the word "famous" which is "famøs" in Danish, but
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> "famous" is positive, "famøs" is not. A "famøs" person is sort of
>>>>>>> well-known, but not for their qualities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need a word like "famøs" to more easily say "He is famous for
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> famous."
>>>>>
>>>>> We already have the word "notorious".
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough, but I won't use it in that sense, due to there being too
>>>> many other related meanings.
>>>>
>>> Only today my wife commented that people now use "infamous" where they
>>> simply mean "famous".
>>> Her example was
>>> "Try our infamous recipe for" <some dish>.
>>
>> It might be a warning!
>
> Tes! Like "Infamous maple syrup".
>
Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me.

(Someone had to quote Kenneth Williams in this thread.)

--
Sam Plusnet

On 05/03/24 01:45, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2024-03-02, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 15:39:21 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-01 05:14, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-29, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves: Name Jr. or
>>>>>> Name II
>>>>
>>>> II generally means the child is named after a living relative
>>>> other than his father.
>>>
>>> In my experience, it generally (in Canada) means that he has the
>>> same first name as his father.
>>>
>> More than that. The person has both the same first name and
>> middle name as the father. John David Jones's son John William
>> Jones would not be a "Jr".
>
> I meant named "all the way", not just partly. But lar3ryca's comment
> is interesting --- I was always under the impression that John David
> Jones Jr has the same name as his father whereas John David Jones II
> has the same name as some living relative *other than* his father.
> (This applies to one of my university friends.)
>
> Maybe people also use "II" because it sounds more dignified than
> "Junior".

Yesterday, while updating some genealogy files, I was updating the
details for Angus Mor MacDonald and Angus Og MacDonald. In English,
those names would be something like "Angus the Great" and "Angus
Junior". The "Og" definitely sounds deprecating to me, and I've wondered
why people would use it.

They were, if I've counted correctly, the 5th and 6th Lords of the
Isles. Those are more impressive titles.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Jerry Friedman:
> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
> "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
> uniforms.

When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
uniforms but their team logo and player number.

http://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTk2MDg2Njk5MDA5OTQ5/140103124243-1965-bobby-hull-single-image-cutjpg.jpg

--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "*Nature*, Mr. Allnutt, is what we are put in this
msb@vex.net | world *to rise above*." -- The African Queen

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 10:32:08 +1100, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/03/24 01:45, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2024-03-02, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 15:39:21 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-01 05:14, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-02-29, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves: Name Jr. or
>>>>>>> Name II
>>>>>
>>>>> II generally means the child is named after a living relative
>>>>> other than his father.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, it generally (in Canada) means that he has the
>>>> same first name as his father.
>>>>
>>> More than that. The person has both the same first name and
>>> middle name as the father. John David Jones's son John William
>>> Jones would not be a "Jr".
>>
>> I meant named "all the way", not just partly. But lar3ryca's comment
>> is interesting --- I was always under the impression that John David
>> Jones Jr has the same name as his father whereas John David Jones II
>> has the same name as some living relative *other than* his father.
>> (This applies to one of my university friends.)
>>
>> Maybe people also use "II" because it sounds more dignified than
>> "Junior".
>
>Yesterday, while updating some genealogy files, I was updating the
>details for Angus Mor MacDonald and Angus Og MacDonald. In English,
>those names would be something like "Angus the Great" and "Angus
>Junior". The "Og" definitely sounds deprecating to me, and I've wondered
>why people would use it.
>
>They were, if I've counted correctly, the 5th and 6th Lords of the
>Isles. Those are more impressive titles.

"Og", in Danish, translates to "and". My brother, who lives in
Denmark, sometimes slipped a Danish work in letters to my parents. One
letter referred to my brother's three children as Soren, Peter og
Jens.

My father thought the youngest boy's name was Og Jens.

On 05/03/24 10:56, Mark Brader wrote:
> Jerry Friedman:

>> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to
>> have "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on
>> their uniforms.
>
> When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
> uniforms but their team logo and player number.
>
> http://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTk2MDg2Njk5MDA5OTQ5/140103124243-1965-bobby-hull-single-image-cutjpg.jpg

Australian sportspeople don't have names or numbers, they have sponsors.
I was going to give a link to an image, but I gave up after I saw that
the URL was eight lines long.

It bothers me that , more and more, the dominant sponsors seem to be
on-line betting scams.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Mark Brader wrote:

>> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
>> "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
>> uniforms.
>
> When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
> uniforms but their team logo and player number.

When I'm dictator, they won't even be allowed to wear a uniform.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 05-Mar-24 7:48, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Mark Brader wrote:
>
>>> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
>>> "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
>>> uniforms.
>>
>> When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
>> uniforms but their team logo and player number.
>
> When I'm dictator, they won't even be allowed to wear a uniform.
>
?? I thought dictators _liked_ having lots of people in uniform?

(Even if the uniform is only a peaked cap with a few letters on the front.)

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 04/03/24 05:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled: "This
> > cutlery is cold."
> >
> > (aka silverware for some North Americans)
>
> AusE makes a distinction between "cutlery" and "silver cutlery". Only
> relatively wealthy people have the latter.

And that is presumably plate.
Real silver silver has gone out of fashion almost completely.
(in these parts)
No need to be very wealthy:
it is worth little more than the metal value,
special cases excepted.
(about 500 euro/kg these days)

Jan

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 22:23:34 +0100, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/24 05:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> >
>> > Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled: "This
>> > cutlery is cold."
>> >
>> > (aka silverware for some North Americans)
>>
>> AusE makes a distinction between "cutlery" and "silver cutlery". Only
>> relatively wealthy people have the latter.
>
>And that is presumably plate.

Not necessarily. "Silverware" is correctly used to describe both
Sterling Silver (92.5% silver) and Silver Plate, although many people
use "silverware" (incorrectly) when referring to stainless steel
flatware.

>Real silver silver has gone out of fashion almost completely.
>(in these parts)
>No need to be very wealthy:
>it is worth little more than the metal value,

Perhaps in your "here", but not in my "here". Sterling Silver
flatware is expensive. This company sells *used* pieces and sets:
https://www.replacements.com/sterling-silver-flatware-sets/c/494206

While "cutlery" , by definition, includes knives, forks, and spoons,
in the US most people use "flatware" for knives, forks, and spoons but
"cutlery" for the knives used in food preparation.

>special cases excepted.
>(about 500 euro/kg these days)
>
>Jan
>

Tony Cooper wrote:

>>Real silver silver has gone out of fashion almost completely.
>>(in these parts)
>>No need to be very wealthy:
>>it is worth little more than the metal value,
>
> Perhaps in your "here", but not in my "here". Sterling Silver
> flatware is expensive. This company sells *used* pieces and sets:
> https://www.replacements.com/sterling-silver-flatware-sets/c/494206

Here's a Danish shop that isn't cheap either:
https://www.georgjensen.com/da-dk/soelvhaandvaerk/soelvbestik

1900 kr. =~ $276

--
Bertel, Denmark

In article <1qpywb9.1q03uzb2yaj39N%nospam@de-
ster.demon.nl>, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl says...
>
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 04/03/24 05:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > >
> > > Yesterday I served up breakfast to my wife and she grumbled: "This
> > > cutlery is cold."
> > >
> > > (aka silverware for some North Americans)
> >
> > AusE makes a distinction between "cutlery" and "silver cutlery". Only
> > relatively wealthy people have the latter.
>
> And that is presumably plate.
> Real silver silver has gone out of fashion almost completely.
> (in these parts)

Not here
> No need to be very wealthy:
> it is worth little more than the metal value,
> special cases excepted.

Here, real silver (cutlery and other table ware) sells
at huge prices and is avidly collected. Both antique, and
20th century .

Janet

Janet wrote:

>> Real silver silver has gone out of fashion almost completely.
>> (in these parts)
>
> Not here

Not in Holland either:

https://www.ebay.com/b/Holland-Silver-Spoon-In-Antique-Us-Sterling-Silver-Flatware/20104/bn_7022107321

--
Bertel, Denmark

Le 06/03/2024 à 12:26, Janet a écrit :
>
> Here, real silver (cutlery and other table ware) sells
> at huge prices and is avidly collected. Both antique, and
> 20th century .

Some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Makes you wonder what was going on in the womb.

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 05-Mar-24 7:48, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Mark Brader wrote:
>>
>>>> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
>>>> "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
>>>> uniforms.
>>>
>>> When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
>>> uniforms but their team logo and player number.
>>
>> When I'm dictator, they won't even be allowed to wear a uniform.
>>
> ?? I thought dictators _liked_ having lots of people in uniform?

Maybe Bertel took "gymnasium" too etymologically.

> (Even if the uniform is only a peaked cap with a few letters on the front.)

Even if he's only dictator for a day?

--
Jerry Friedman

In article <us9vih$fdoh$3@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>
> Le 06/03/2024 à 12:26, Janet a écrit :
> >
> > Here, real silver (cutlery and other table ware) sells
> > at huge prices and is avidly collected. Both antique, and
> > 20th century .
>
> Some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
>
> Makes you wonder what was going on in the womb.

Forceps delivery. Memorable.

Janet

In article
<c70011c813e37b5790eb6dc63f4b972d@www.novabbs.com>,
jerry.friedman99@gmail.com says...
>
> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> > On 05-Mar-24 7:48, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Mark Brader wrote:
> >>
> >>>> When I'm dictator, by the way, athletes will not be allowed to have
> >>>> "Jr" or "III" or anything similar after their surnames on their
> >>>> uniforms.
> >>>
> >>> When I'm dictator, they won't be allowed to have anything on their
> >>> uniforms but their team logo and player number.
> >>
> >> When I'm dictator, they won't even be allowed to wear
a uniform.

When I'm a dicktator, they'll all perform stark naked,
like the ancient Greeks.

That way no dick can pretend he's a woman.

Janet