Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Feb 2024 19:46:54 -0800
> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Therapists are probably interested in the latter spot.
> --^^^^^^^^^^
> I often worry about words like that; I'm now retired, so no longer
> unionised.

And not underfed either, I guess,

Jan

Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

> In article <urmr0q$3okb4$2@dont-email.me>, vpaereru-
> unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> >
> > Le 27/02/2024 à 21:43, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> > > On 28/02/24 04:25, lar3ryca wrote:
> > >>
> > >> My wife's parents used 'D' for all their children; Donald, Diane,
> > >> Darlene, Deborah, and Delphine (in order of oldest to youngest).
> > >
> > > In the town where I grew up, the Denshaw family had 13 children, all of
> > > whom had names starting with 'D'. Dalma and Denzel were in my class.
> > >
> > > It brings to mind the Dr Seuss story "Too many Daves".
> >
> > I think it's better if everyone in a household has a unique initial.
> > Then letters are not opened by the wrong person, and privacy is preserved.
>
> Where's the fun in that?
>
> Janet (sister of John and Joy, daughter of James).

Long ago I knew a family with a family name beginning with N,
and by tradition all children had names starting with N,
so they could all sign with N.N.

Jan

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> The 'kombuis' 'kabuse' was a small hut built on the main deck
> of a sea-going ship where warm food was prepared. (E. the galley)
> At other times it also served as shelter for the crew.

Danish ships have a "kabys" which is the kitchen. The word is common
among sailing people.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Le 28/02/2024 à 11:04, Janet a écrit :
> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>
>> It's of interest to me whether I'm talking about my older brother or my
>> younger brother, and somewhat that I'm the caboose of the family.
>
> I had to look up what "caboose of the family" means.

I think I'd have guessed from context that it means 'guard's van', and
therefore the last of the litter.

Le 28/02/2024 à 13:57, Hibou a écrit :
> Le 28/02/2024 à 11:04, Janet a écrit :
>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>> It's of interest to me whether I'm talking about my older brother or my
>>> younger brother, and somewhat that I'm the caboose of the family.
>>
>>     I had to look up what  "caboose of the family" means.
>
> I think I'd have guessed from context that it means 'guard's van', and
> therefore the last of the litter.

That 'caboose' means guard's van and 'caboose of the family' means last
of the litter.

(Not on form today.)

On 2024-02-28 07:57, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> The 'kombuis' 'kabuse' was a small hut built on the main deck
>> of a sea-going ship where warm food was prepared. (E. the galley)
>> At other times it also served as shelter for the crew.
>
> Danish ships have a "kabys" which is the kitchen. The word is common
> among sailing people.

The term was also adopted in western Canada to describe a
heated horse-drawn sleigh, which was also known as a 'cutter'.

Google 'saskatchewan sleigh cutter caboose' (without the quotes) to see
examples.

I have also heard 'caboose' used as a term for the bum.

--
How do you tittilate an ocelot?
You oscillate its tit a lot.

On 2024-02-28 05:58, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> Actually, we'd be even more likely to ask the question indirectly, for
>> example "Were [1] you the youngest?". The person being asked would then
>> reply with something like "No, I was the second oldest".
>>
>> [1] Past tense, because it's a question about the person's childhood.
>> Once we reach adulthood, birth order usually stops being a matter of
>> interest.
>
> For certain values of "stops". Some psycologists think that your
> position in the group of siblings influences your personality.

"She's a middle child. She's the reason rules were made."

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from
the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent
disinclination to do so.
—Douglas Adams

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
>
> And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)

I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
etymology is copied directly:

Danish text translated:

The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
tab "etymology" it says, however:

Quote:

Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
cambuse ‘apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
18th c.’ (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
the history and etymology are altogether obscure.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 18:43:51 +0100
Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
> >
> > And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> > To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
>
> I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
> answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
> etymology is copied directly:
>
> Danish text translated:
>
> The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
> oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
> tab "etymology" it says, however:
>
> Quote:
>
> Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
> Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
> cambuse ‘apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
> 18th c.’ (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
> the history and etymology are altogether obscure.

Presumable CabHouse is a false friend.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 28-Feb-24 11:04, Janet wrote:
> In article <mn.dca27e824fb7d4be.127094@snitoo>,
> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Tuesday, Peter Moylan pointed out that ...
>>> On 28/02/24 12:35, navi wrote:
>>>> Thank you all very much,
>>>>
>>>> In both Armenian and Persian too we can ask 'whichth child of the
>>>> family are you'. I think 'whichth' is a good word and has to come
>>>> into full existence. It seems to have a shadowy one at present.
>>>> Actually, I had never heard it.
>>>
>>> You hadn't heard it because most native speakers of English would not
>>> think of using "whichth" in that sort of question. Instead we might ask
>>> something like "Where in the family did you come?"
>>>
>>> Actually, we'd be even more likely to ask the question indirectly, for
>>> example "Were [1] you the youngest?". The person being asked would then
>>> reply with something like "No, I was the second oldest".
>>>
>>> [1] Past tense, because it's a question about the person's childhood.
>>> Once we reach adulthood, birth order usually stops being a matter of
>>> interest.
>>
>> It's of interest to me whether I'm talking about my older brother or my
>> younger brother, and somewhat that I'm the caboose of the family.
>
> I had to look up what "caboose of the family" means.

I doubt if "guard's van of the family" will catch on.

--
Sam Plusnet

Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
> >
> > And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> > To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
>
> I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
> answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
> etymology is copied directly:
>
> Danish text translated:
>
> The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
> oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
> tab "etymology" it says, however:

Eh, no, but there are no doubt many other places
where the same information can be found.

> Quote:
>
> Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
> Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
> cambuse 'apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
> 18th c.' (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
> the history and etymology are altogether obscure.

It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
One may speculate that the original function was indeed
for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.

The Dutch equivalent is called a 'remwagen'. (brake van)
When the eary trains became longer and heavier the steam engine alone
could no longer brake the train reliably and stably,
and a brake wagon had to be added.
Originally the brakemen worked exposed to all weather
from the roofs of the carriages, but this was dangerous,
and very uncomfortable, hence unreliable,

Jan

Thank you all very much,

"Whichth" can be used in a lot of different contexts that don't have anything to do with family.

I heard this on a TV show once: "I don't mind a little junk in the trunk, a little juice in the caboose."

It prompted me to look up 'caboose'.

--
Respectfully,
Navi

Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Interested in strange structures
Obsessed with ambiguity

J. J. Lodder submitted this gripping article, maybe on Wednesday:
> Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <mn.dca27e824fb7d4be.127094@snitoo>,
>> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, Peter Moylan pointed out that ...
>>>> On 28/02/24 12:35, navi wrote:
>>>>> Thank you all very much,
>>>>>
>>>>> In both Armenian and Persian too we can ask 'whichth child of the
>>>>> family are you'. I think 'whichth' is a good word and has to come
>>>>> into full existence. It seems to have a shadowy one at present.
>>>>> Actually, I had never heard it.
>>>>
>>>> You hadn't heard it because most native speakers of English would not
>>>> think of using "whichth" in that sort of question. Instead we might ask
>>>> something like "Where in the family did you come?"
>>>>
>>>> Actually, we'd be even more likely to ask the question indirectly, for
>>>> example "Were [1] you the youngest?". The person being asked would then
>>>> reply with something like "No, I was the second oldest".
>>>>
>>>> [1] Past tense, because it's a question about the person's childhood.
>>>> Once we reach adulthood, birth order usually stops being a matter of
>>>> interest.
>>>
>>> It's of interest to me whether I'm talking about my older brother or my
>>> younger brother, and somewhat that I'm the caboose of the family.
>>
>> I had to look up what "caboose of the family" means.
>
> You might have guessed from Bob Dylan's 'on the caboose of the train',
> from 'Only a Pawn in Their Game'.
> It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
>
> And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
>
> The 'kombuis' 'kabuse' was a small hut built on the main deck
> of a sea-going ship where warm food was prepared. (E. the galley)
> At other times it also served as shelter for the crew.
>
> From the American Navy it moved to the railroad
> as shelter for the train crews at the end of the train.
> (needed for shunting operations, and sometimes for braking)
>
> Jan

Thanks. I've never seen it except in the railroad context and the
casual derivatives such as I applied to myself, but as a sometime
ragpicker I'm delighted to add the nautical image.

/dps

--
https://xkcd.com/2704

lar3ryca wrote on 2/28/2024 :
> On 2024-02-28 07:57, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> The 'kombuis' 'kabuse' was a small hut built on the main deck
>>> of a sea-going ship where warm food was prepared. (E. the galley)
>>> At other times it also served as shelter for the crew.
>>
>> Danish ships have a "kabys" which is the kitchen. The word is common
>> among sailing people.
>
> The term was also adopted in western Canada to describe a
> heated horse-drawn sleigh, which was also known as a 'cutter'.
>
> Google 'saskatchewan sleigh cutter caboose' (without the quotes) to see
> examples.
>
> I have also heard 'caboose' used as a term for the bum.

Hey!

-d

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

On Wednesday or thereabouts, J. J. Lodder asked ...
> Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
>>>
>>> And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
>>> To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
>>
>> I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
>> answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
>> etymology is copied directly:
>>
>> Danish text translated:
>>
>> The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
>> oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
>> tab "etymology" it says, however:
>
> Eh, no, but there are no doubt many other places
> where the same information can be found.
>
>> Quote:
>>
>> Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
>> Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
>> cambuse 'apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
>> 18th c.' (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
>> the history and etymology are altogether obscure.
>
> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.

The early American trains didn't do long distances (meal-wise),
although those were beginning to show up in the 1850s.

> The Dutch equivalent is called a 'remwagen'. (brake van)
> When the eary trains became longer and heavier the steam engine alone
> could no longer brake the train reliably and stably,
> and a brake wagon had to be added.
> Originally the brakemen worked exposed to all weather
> from the roofs of the carriages, but this was dangerous,
> and very uncomfortable, hence unreliable,
>
> Jan

Originally, US-wise, the engine only had brakes for itself, and the
brakemen had to turn wheels on each car. Even with only 20 boxcars,
that was a lot of jumping between cars for 4 or 5 brakemen. The first
air brakes tried were direct-air ... increasing the pipe pressure
pushed the brake shoes onto the wheels. This had problems when
connections broke ... and in those days, trains came apart much more
often than planned. Westinghouse's triple valve changed the equation
.... decreasing the pipe pressure caused air stored in a tank to be
applied to the brakes. When air pressure increased, the tank was
refilled.

I don't know how many people invented the same system, but George got
the credit over here.

/dps

--
"I'm glad unicorns don't ever need upgrades."
"We are as up as it is possible to get graded!"
_Phoebe and Her Unicorn_, 2016.05.15

On 28/02/24 19:31, Hibou wrote:
> Le 27/02/2024 à 21:43, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>> On 28/02/24 04:25, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>> My wife's parents used 'D' for all their children; Donald,
>>> Diane, Darlene, Deborah, and Delphine (in order of oldest to
>>> youngest).
>>
>> In the town where I grew up, the Denshaw family had 13 children,
>> all of whom had names starting with 'D'. Dalma and Denzel were in
>> my class.
>>
>> It brings to mind the Dr Seuss story "Too many Daves".
>
> I think it's better if everyone in a household has a unique initial.
> Then letters are not opened by the wrong person, and privacy is
> preserved.
>
> It's true that this is relevant only to what's shoved through the box
> by the postie - also, one can add the person's first name to remove
> ambiguity. This must be done carefully, IMHO. Our energy company
> writes to me as "Dear <first name>", which unasked-for informality
> makes me bridle a bit. English first names are a bit like the French
> tutoiement; both should be used with care.

It's relatively common for a child to have the same name as one of the
parents. Now and then this can cause confusion with mail.

I recall a case where a child phoned and asked to speak to George. The
Lady of the House asked "Do you mean big George or little George?"

"Ah, big George I guess. He's in second grade."

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.

Changes in the meaning of words in different regions are often difficult
to explain. Take the word "famous" which is "famøs" in Danish, but while
"famous" is positive, "famøs" is not. A "famøs" person is sort of
well-known, but not for their qualities.

Even within Scandinavia a word can have different meanings. "Rar" is a
word in Norwegian, Swedish and Danish. In Norwegian it means "rare"
(same word), but in Swedish and Danish it means "nice". We do, however,
have a reminiscence of the rare-meaning in the word "raritet" (rarity).

--
Bertel, Denmark

navi wrote:

> I heard this on a TV show once: "I don't mind a little junk in the trunk, a little juice in the caboose."
>
> It prompted me to look up 'caboose'.

I have played some train games on computer. That's where I learned
"caboose".

--
Bertel, Denmark

Peter Moylan wrote:

> It's relatively common for a child to have the same name as one of the
> parents.

Not in Denmark. I was surprised to find out that that is common in some
countries.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday or thereabouts, J. J. Lodder asked ...
> > Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> >
> >> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>
> >>> It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
> >>>
> >>> And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> >>> To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
> >>
> >> I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
> >> answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
> >> etymology is copied directly:
> >>
> >> Danish text translated:
> >>
> >> The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
> >> oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
> >> tab "etymology" it says, however:
> >
> > Eh, no, but there are no doubt many other places
> > where the same information can be found.
> >
> >> Quote:
> >>
> >> Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
> >> Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
> >> cambuse 'apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
> >> 18th c.' (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
> >> the history and etymology are altogether obscure.
> >
> > It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
> > from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
> > One may speculate that the original function was indeed
> > for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.
>
> The early American trains didn't do long distances (meal-wise),
> although those were beginning to show up in the 1850s.
>
> > The Dutch equivalent is called a 'remwagen'. (brake van)
> > When the eary trains became longer and heavier the steam engine alone
> > could no longer brake the train reliably and stably,
> > and a brake wagon had to be added.
> > Originally the brakemen worked exposed to all weather
> > from the roofs of the carriages, but this was dangerous,
> > and very uncomfortable, hence unreliable,
> >
> > Jan
>
> Originally, US-wise, the engine only had brakes for itself, and the
> brakemen had to turn wheels on each car.

Wikipedia find pictures of brakemen from as late as WWII.

> Even with only 20 boxcars,
> that was a lot of jumping between cars for 4 or 5 brakemen.

But they soon became ionised. Insisting that they must be un-
ionised for safety they made rules of no more than two cars
for each brakeman.

> The first air brakes tried were direct-air ... increasing the pipe
> pressure pushed the brake shoes onto the wheels. This had problems when
> connections broke ... and in those days, trains came apart much more often
> than planned. Westinghouse's triple valve changed the equation ...
> decreasing the pipe pressure caused air stored in a tank to be applied to
> the brakes. When air pressure increased, the tank was refilled.

IIRC more modern systems have the brakes on by springs,
and use air pressure to release them. (with a two-pipe system)
Loss of pressure means automatic braking.
The reality is no doubt more complicated than I know about.

> I don't know how many people invented the same system, but George got
> the credit over here.

In Europe too, but there are competing systems,

Jan

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder submitted this gripping article, maybe on Wednesday:
> > Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <mn.dca27e824fb7d4be.127094@snitoo>,
> >> snidely.too@gmail.com says...
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, Peter Moylan pointed out that ...
> >>>> On 28/02/24 12:35, navi wrote:
> >>>>> Thank you all very much,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In both Armenian and Persian too we can ask 'whichth child of the
> >>>>> family are you'. I think 'whichth' is a good word and has to come
> >>>>> into full existence. It seems to have a shadowy one at present.
> >>>>> Actually, I had never heard it.
> >>>>
> >>>> You hadn't heard it because most native speakers of English would not
> >>>> think of using "whichth" in that sort of question. Instead we might ask
> >>>> something like "Where in the family did you come?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, we'd be even more likely to ask the question indirectly, for
> >>>> example "Were [1] you the youngest?". The person being asked would then
> >>>> reply with something like "No, I was the second oldest".
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] Past tense, because it's a question about the person's childhood.
> >>>> Once we reach adulthood, birth order usually stops being a matter of
> >>>> interest.
> >>>
> >>> It's of interest to me whether I'm talking about my older brother or my
> >>> younger brother, and somewhat that I'm the caboose of the family.
> >>
> >> I had to look up what "caboose of the family" means.
> >
> > You might have guessed from Bob Dylan's 'on the caboose of the train',
> > from 'Only a Pawn in Their Game'.
> > It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
> >
> > And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
> > To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
> >
> > The 'kombuis' 'kabuse' was a small hut built on the main deck
> > of a sea-going ship where warm food was prepared. (E. the galley)
> > At other times it also served as shelter for the crew.
> >
> > From the American Navy it moved to the railroad
> > as shelter for the train crews at the end of the train.
> > (needed for shunting operations, and sometimes for braking)
> >
> > Jan
>
> Thanks. I've never seen it except in the railroad context and the
> casual derivatives such as I applied to myself, but as a sometime
> ragpicker I'm delighted to add the nautical image.

For your imagery: the 'kombuis' was always built up on a topmost deck.
The risk of fire on wooden ships was such that they didn't want
to have a kitchen fire below decks.

And if Hornblower ordered to 'prepare for action'
he would expect the fires to be doused immediately,

Jan

"Navi":
> "Whichth" can be used in a lot of different contexts that don't have
> anything to do with family.

It could if it existed. Give up.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I don't _want_ people using Linux for ideological
msb@vex.net | reasons. I think ideology sucks." -- Torvalds

J. J. Lodder formulated the question :
> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday or thereabouts, J. J. Lodder asked ...
>>> Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It is even used in the USA as "on the caboose of the family-train"
>>>>>
>>>>> And guess what? It is another word from Middle-Dutch/Middle-German.
>>>>> To American by way of French. (by way of the navy)
>>>>
>>>> I wrote to a modern Danish dictionary with your information and got an
>>>> answer. The translation of the answer is mine, but the quote about the
>>>> etymology is copied directly:
>>>>
>>>> Danish text translated:
>>>>
>>>> The Dutch member of the language group seems to have access to
>>>> oed.com, where you'll find the information he supplies. Under the
>>>> tab "etymology" it says, however:
>>>
>>> Eh, no, but there are no doubt many other places
>>> where the same information can be found.
>>>
>>>> Quote:
>>>>
>>>> Identical with Dutch kabuis, kombuis, earlier Dutch combûse, cabûse,
>>>> Middle Low German kabhûse (whence modern German kabuse), also French
>>>> cambuse 'apparently introduced into the navy about the middle of the
>>>> 18th c.' (Littré). The original language was perhaps Low German; but
>>>> the history and etymology are altogether obscure.
>>>
>>> It is not very clear how the meaning transfered
>>> from the navy to the railways, and only in the USA.
>>> One may speculate that the original function was indeed
>>> for cooking for the train crews, on those long American distances.
>>
>> The early American trains didn't do long distances (meal-wise),
>> although those were beginning to show up in the 1850s.
>>
>>> The Dutch equivalent is called a 'remwagen'. (brake van)
>>> When the eary trains became longer and heavier the steam engine alone
>>> could no longer brake the train reliably and stably,
>>> and a brake wagon had to be added.
>>> Originally the brakemen worked exposed to all weather
>>> from the roofs of the carriages, but this was dangerous,
>>> and very uncomfortable, hence unreliable,
>>>
>>> Jan
>>
>> Originally, US-wise, the engine only had brakes for itself, and the
>> brakemen had to turn wheels on each car.
>
> Wikipedia find pictures of brakemen from as late as WWII.
>
>> Even with only 20 boxcars,
>> that was a lot of jumping between cars for 4 or 5 brakemen.
>
> But they soon became ionised. Insisting that they must be un-
> ionised for safety they made rules of no more than two cars
> for each brakeman.
>
>> The first air brakes tried were direct-air ... increasing the pipe
>> pressure pushed the brake shoes onto the wheels. This had problems when
>> connections broke ... and in those days, trains came apart much more often
>> than planned. Westinghouse's triple valve changed the equation ...
>> decreasing the pipe pressure caused air stored in a tank to be applied to
>> the brakes. When air pressure increased, the tank was refilled.
>
> IIRC more modern systems have the brakes on by springs,
> and use air pressure to release them. (with a two-pipe system)
> Loss of pressure means automatic braking.
> The reality is no doubt more complicated than I know about.

I think some truck (rubber-wheeled self-propelled asphalt denters) have
air brakes on the same principle. There is also a bunch of trucks with
"air over hydraulics", which I know little about.

>
>> I don't know how many people invented the same system, but George got
>> the credit over here.
>
> In Europe too, but there are competing systems,
>
> Jan

Not to mention electric brakes, mainly on passenger trains AIUI.

/dps

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 08:08:29 +0100
Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > It's relatively common for a child to have the same name as one of the
> > parents.
>
I am; it's a terrible idea. My father's side generally recycled about 4
first names; not great for researching my genealogy. I suppose it does
make easier to give a gggg-grandfather a name, but not easy to
distinguish if it could also be any number of his uncles, cousins or
grandchildren.

> Not in Denmark. I was surprised to find out that that is common in some
> countries.
>
> --
> Bertel, Denmark

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 2024-02-29 01:08, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> It's relatively common for a child to have the same name as one of the
>> parents.
>
> Not in Denmark. I was surprised to find out that that is common in some
> countries.

Usually, the child(ren) the call themselves:
Name Jr.
or
Name II
Name III
etc.

--
I recenly heard that scientists have isolated the gene that makes
scientists want to isolate genes.