In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 14:54:58 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 14:58:37 GMT,
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>>hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>>>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>>(5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>>(waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>>people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>
>>>>You guys have any tips?
>>>>
>>>>Many thanks,
>>>>-T
>>>>
>>>
>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>>flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>>caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>>The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>> ps : have you tried dimmable vs non dimmable ?
>>>I think all of mine are dimmable ..
>>
>>It is "T", trolling you. The frequency used in LED lights
>>cannot be distinguished by the human eye as "flicker"
>>(aside some special purpose bulbs like christmas lights).
>>
>T is certainly not reliable, to say the least, but dyno dan posted bulbs
>that advertise "no flicker", so it makes me think that maybe some do,
>
>Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>
>Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>T!) should read.

I forgot to include the link:
https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering

AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Apr 2024 14:14:24 -0500, Mark Lloyd
<not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

>[snip]
>
>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>
>About the frame rate of movie film. I've wondered if that has anything
>to do with old movies being called "flicks".

Absolutely, but it's not because the light source flickers. It's
because the image did, as it changed from frame of the movie film to the
next.

Movie theatres tended to use arc-lamps,because they are bright enough,
and although I read that their power was DC, I don't know where a movie
theatre would get DC power.

"Carbon arc lighting left its imprint on other film projection
practices. The practice of shipping and projecting motion pictures on
2,000-foot reels, and employing "changeovers" between two projectors,
was due to the carbon rods used in projector lamphouses having a
lifespan of roughly 22 minutes (which corresponds to the amount of film
in said reels when projected at 24 frames/second). The projectionist
would watch the rod burn down by eye (though a peephole like a welder's
glass) and replace the carbon rod when changing film reels. The
two-projector changeover setup largely disappeared in the 1970s with the
advent of xenon projector lamps, being replaced with single-projector
platter systems, though films would continue to be shipped to cinemas on
2,000-foot reels."

Complete with pictures: https://silentfilmmusic.com/carbon-arc/

Later, a small white rectangle was made to appear in the upper right
corner on the screen when it was about time to change reels. I suspect
one can still see this on old movies, even after they've been digitized
and there are no reels to change. .
>
>> _very noticable_
>>
>> Hope you / she find a solution.
>> John T.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
<dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

>In <kahQN.385491$q3F7.346073@fx45.iad> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:
>
>>[snip]
>
>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>
>
>sidenote: back 1975ish I was in the NYC subway station
>right next to Penn Station, and the incandescent
>lamps were... yes .. wired to the 25 CPS of the
>rail road supply. Who knows why?
>Anyway, it was a super cold winter, about zero F,
>and yes, I definitely saw the flickering.
>
>

The old-timers said that they could discern the sound
of the 25 Hz. from the 60 Hz.
" the 25 cycle hum " .. of the big power transformers.
I can't say that I could hear it - must have been the
wet behind my ears ..
John T.

In <lcj31jlrlsembmsoe6gokot9ds2apg4b5g@4ax.com> hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:

>The old-timers said that they could discern the sound
>of the 25 Hz. from the 60 Hz.
>" the 25 cycle hum " .. of the big power transformers.
> I can't say that I could hear it - must have been the
>wet behind my ears ..

For reasons I don't quite agree with, but 'dem's da breaks,
the so-called "60 Hz hum" people hear from transformers
is ususually actually 120 Hz...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 4/6/24 07:08, dyno dan wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 19:00:16 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>
>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>
>
>
> I've been using these for a couple of years now:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PZSTX8B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
>
> Quite bright. No noticeable flicker at any time. Rated at 13w, but
> much brighter than a regular 75w bulb. None have failed yet.
>
> In fact, the description includes: "No flicker or strobe. Each bulb is
> stict (sic) tested before ship, no need to worry about the problem you
> suffered before with other bulbs such as flicker, strobe, glare and
> color rendition. Healthy for every member of your family. "
>
> -dan z-

Thank you!

On 4/6/2024 6:02 PM, micky wrote:

>> Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>>
>> Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>> T!) should read.
>
> I forgot to include the link:
> https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering
>
> AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
> who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.

The flicker of the lights is also a dangerous thing to be aware of.
The container ship Dali was entering the Baltimore Port and the lights
flickered. Soon after, it hit the bridge and knocked it down.

Reliable sources say the pilot hit the light button and caused the
problem and the trainee did not drop the starboard anchor.

Ed P wrote:
> On 4/6/2024 6:02 PM, micky wrote:
>
>>> Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>>>
>>> Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>>> T!) should read.
>>
>> I forgot to include the link:
>> https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering
>>
>> AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
>> who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.
>
>
> The flicker of the lights is also a dangerous thing to be aware of.
> The container ship Dali was entering the Baltimore Port and the lights flickered.  Soon after, it hit the bridge and knocked it down.
>
> Reliable sources say the pilot hit the light button and caused the problem and the trainee did not drop the starboard anchor.

That has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

On 4/6/2024 6:03 PM, JRB Ware wrote:
>
> Ed P wrote:
>> On 4/6/2024 6:02 PM, micky wrote:
>>
>>>> Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>>>> T!) should read.
>>>
>>> I forgot to include the link:
>>> https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering
>>>
>>> AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
>>> who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.
>>
>>
>> The flicker of the lights is also a dangerous thing to be aware of.
>> The container ship Dali was entering the Baltimore Port and the lights
>> flickered.  Soon after, it hit the bridge and knocked it down.
>>
>> Reliable sources say the pilot hit the light button and caused the
>> problem and the trainee did not drop the starboard anchor.
>
>
> That has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

He's just trying to compete in kind with Big Thumb Wannabe Rod Speed.

On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 20:15:03 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on 6 Apr 2024 00:10:02 GMT, Xeno
><xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Shouldn’t be on the same circuit since lights are on a lighting circuit and
>>power points are on a separate higher current rating circuit. At least,
>>thats the way its done here.
>
>Not everyone lives on Xenon.
>
>>____
>>Xeno
Many decades ago it was done that way here too - back when you had no
meter and you paid for power by the number of lighting devices and the
number of "power points" - and you had 2 circuits - and 2 fuses. The
only things that you could plug into the power points were things like
toasters and irons - and mabee fans or space heaters because that's
all you could buy - - -
Funny how parts of Europe and possibly(parts of) the UK still do
things that way

On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 23:42:13 -0500, Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On 6 Apr 2024 00:10:02 GMT, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>><hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>
>>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -T
>>>>
>>>
>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>
>>Shouldn’t be on the same circuit since lights are on a lighting circuit and
>>power points are on a separate higher current rating circuit. At least,
>>that’s the way it’s done here.
>
>When I added electrical service to a shed in my back yard, I added a 15-amp
>circuit for lighting and a 20-amp circuit for receptacles. In my house, however,
>the builders created one 20-amp circuit per room, mostly. Bedrooms 3 & 4 are on
>the same circuit. There is no area of the house where there's a separate circuit
>for lighting and receptacles. I wish there was.
"best practice" back in the 70s and 80s was receptacles in one room
on one circuit - along with lights in another room - so if you
overloaded an outlet and tripped the breaker you were not left in the
dark in that room. That was the way my dad - a licenced electrician -
laid things out when wiring houses. Virtually every room was served by
AT LEAST 2 circuits

In <lc041j9u4sdg64ul9ooc55858o7imkc0ik@4ax.com> Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> writes:

[snip]
>Many decades ago it was done that way here too - back when you had no
>meter and you paid for power by the number of lighting devices and the
>number of "power points" - and you had 2 circuits - and 2 fuses. The

Kind of a similar situation, more or less, for "public street lighting".

The utilities in many parts of the US simply charge the Local
Authority Having Jurisdiction a flattish rate based on, more
or less, what the luminaires would draw on ten hours of use
(at the very low.. off peak rate)...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 06 Apr 2024 09:14:18 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-04-06, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>><hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>
>>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -T
>>>>
>>>
>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>
>> Shouldn’t be on the same circuit since lights are on a lighting circuit and
>> power points are on a separate higher current rating circuit. At least,
>> that’s the way it’s done here.
>
>Not all houses are wired properly. Clueless homeowners do a lot
>of strange stuff. I once saw a house that used lamp cord instead
>of Romex in an attic--and it was laid on top of the joists where
>it might get pinched if someone laid down plywood for walking in
>the attic.

I've even seen basements wired with telephone wire - the old copper
coated steel "twinlead" external overhead phone wire. Looks like 300
ohm twinlead antenna cable but 14 or 16 guage solid conductor

On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 10:08:39 -0400, dyno dan <logic@is.important>
wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 19:00:16 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>
>>>I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>(5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>(waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>
>>>You guys have any tips?
>>>
>
>
>I've been using these for a couple of years now:
>https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PZSTX8B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
>
>Quite bright. No noticeable flicker at any time. Rated at 13w, but
>much brighter than a regular 75w bulb. None have failed yet.
>
>In fact, the description includes: "No flicker or strobe. Each bulb is
>stict (sic) tested before ship, no need to worry about the problem you
>suffered before with other bulbs such as flicker, strobe, glare and
>color rendition. Healthy for every member of your family. "
>
>-dan z-
any line voltage LED that uses a switch mode power supply will NOT
have 60Hz flicker because they run at a much higher frequency to
minimize the inductor and transformer sizes

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 13:49:41 -0400, Retirednoguilt
<HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>On 4/6/2024 10:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>
>>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> -T
>>>>
>>>
>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>> ps : have you tried dimmable vs non dimmable ?
>>> I think all of mine are dimmable ..
>>
>> It is "T", trolling you. The frequency used in LED lights
>> cannot be distinguished by the human eye as "flicker"
>> (aside some special purpose bulbs like christmas lights).
>>
>>
>
>T trolls so much you can't tell if he's just crying wolf or being
>serious. If he's being serious, I suspect the flicker he's complaining
>about is due to either overloaded or poorly wired electrical service in
>his home rather than either from what his electric company is providing
>or from the circuitry inside his bulbs. The flicker he's complaining
>about is probably due to short duration voltage drops when a high
>current device turns on (heat pump, refrigerator, etc.) If he lives in
>a multi-unit dwelling and the wiring is sketchy or the building's
>service panel supplies insufficient current, the source of the voltage
>drop might not even be in his unit. I have several Phillips LED bulbs
>and none of them flicker except very briefly when I turn on a laser printer.

Actually I do have one lighting circuit with LEDs that flickers when
dimmed. Dimmable bulbs. Tried 3 different dimmers. Tried 2 different
brands of bulbs. It is a slow irregular flicker. All connections have
been checked - no flicker with incandescents or when full bright.
Dlicker regardless if there is anything else running in the house -
and other lights don't flicker. The only thing I have not done is
change the actual sockets

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 18:19:33 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Apr 2024 14:14:24 -0500, Mark Lloyd
><not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>>
>>About the frame rate of movie film. I've wondered if that has anything
>>to do with old movies being called "flicks".
>
>Absolutely, but it's not because the light source flickers. It's
>because the image did, as it changed from frame of the movie film to the
>next.
>
>Movie theatres tended to use arc-lamps,because they are bright enough,
>and although I read that their power was DC, I don't know where a movie
>theatre would get DC power.
>
>"Carbon arc lighting left its imprint on other film projection
>practices. The practice of shipping and projecting motion pictures on
>2,000-foot reels, and employing "changeovers" between two projectors,
>was due to the carbon rods used in projector lamphouses having a
>lifespan of roughly 22 minutes (which corresponds to the amount of film
>in said reels when projected at 24 frames/second). The projectionist
>would watch the rod burn down by eye (though a peephole like a welder's
>glass) and replace the carbon rod when changing film reels. The
>two-projector changeover setup largely disappeared in the 1970s with the
>advent of xenon projector lamps, being replaced with single-projector
>platter systems, though films would continue to be shipped to cinemas on
>2,000-foot reels."
>
>
>Complete with pictures: https://silentfilmmusic.com/carbon-arc/
>
>Later, a small white rectangle was made to appear in the upper right

Not a rectangle. Two dots. " to trained personnel, the two sets of
dots appearing on the screen on the top right corner every 15 minutes
indicated that a change-over was about to take place."
https://www.whitelight.com.mt/2021/06/24/the-history-of-projector-light-sources/

>corner on the screen when it was about time to change reels. I suspect
>one can still see this on old movies, even after they've been digitized
>and there are no reels to change. .
>>
>>> _very noticable_
>>>
>>> Hope you / she find a solution.
>>> John T.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 14:14:24 -0500, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
wrote:

>[snip]
>
>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>
>About the frame rate of movie film. I've wondered if that has anything
>to do with old movies being called "flicks".
>
>> _very noticable_
>>
>> Hope you / she find a solution.
>> John T.
Old movies were 24FPS, weren't they?? Talkies were 14-26FPS.

On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 18:19:33 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Apr 2024 14:14:24 -0500, Mark Lloyd
><not.email@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>>
>>About the frame rate of movie film. I've wondered if that has anything
>>to do with old movies being called "flicks".
>
>Absolutely, but it's not because the light source flickers. It's
>because the image did, as it changed from frame of the movie film to the
>next.
>
>Movie theatres tended to use arc-lamps,because they are bright enough,
>and although I read that their power was DC, I don't know where a movie
>theatre would get DC power.

Rectifiers
>
>"Carbon arc lighting left its imprint on other film projection
>practices. The practice of shipping and projecting motion pictures on
>2,000-foot reels, and employing "changeovers" between two projectors,
>was due to the carbon rods used in projector lamphouses having a
>lifespan of roughly 22 minutes (which corresponds to the amount of film
>in said reels when projected at 24 frames/second). The projectionist
>would watch the rod burn down by eye (though a peephole like a welder's
>glass) and replace the carbon rod when changing film reels. The
>two-projector changeover setup largely disappeared in the 1970s with the
>advent of xenon projector lamps, being replaced with single-projector
>platter systems, though films would continue to be shipped to cinemas on
>2,000-foot reels."
>
>
>Complete with pictures: https://silentfilmmusic.com/carbon-arc/
>
>Later, a small white rectangle was made to appear in the upper right
>corner on the screen when it was about time to change reels. I suspect
>one can still see this on old movies, even after they've been digitized
>and there are no reels to change. .
>>
>>> _very noticable_
>>>
>>> Hope you / she find a solution.
>>> John T.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 22:21:17 -0400, Clare Snyder
<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 23:42:13 -0500, Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 6 Apr 2024 00:10:02 GMT, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>><hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>> -T
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>>
>>>Shouldn’t be on the same circuit since lights are on a lighting circuit and
>>>power points are on a separate higher current rating circuit. At least,
>>>that’s the way it’s done here.
>>
>>When I added electrical service to a shed in my back yard, I added a 15-amp
>>circuit for lighting and a 20-amp circuit for receptacles. In my house, however,
>>the builders created one 20-amp circuit per room, mostly. Bedrooms 3 & 4 are on
>>the same circuit. There is no area of the house where there's a separate circuit
>>for lighting and receptacles. I wish there was.
> "best practice" back in the 70s and 80s was receptacles in one room
>on one circuit - along with lights in another room - so if you
>overloaded an outlet and tripped the breaker you were not left in the
>dark in that room. That was the way my dad - a licenced electrician -
>laid things out when wiring houses. Virtually every room was served by
>AT LEAST 2 circuits

I know one house I lived in had that, probably the one built in 1950.

This one, built in '79 only had a ceiling fixture in the kitchen and the
dining area, before I put one in two of the bedrooms.

There's a switch in every bedroom that turns on an outlet, but I find it
of no practical use. One lamp will not illuminate more than a little
corner of a room.

I put everything I added on one circuit, the light and receptacles above
the basement work bench, the ceiling lights in the bedrooms, the attic
roof fan and the attic light.

On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 18:38:48 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
><dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>In <kahQN.385491$q3F7.346073@fx45.iad> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:
>>
>>>[snip]
>>
>>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>>
>>
>>sidenote: back 1975ish I was in the NYC subway station
>>right next to Penn Station, and the incandescent
>>lamps were... yes .. wired to the 25 CPS of the
>>rail road supply. Who knows why?
>>Anyway, it was a super cold winter, about zero F,
>>and yes, I definitely saw the flickering.
>>
>>
>
>The old-timers said that they could discern the sound
>of the 25 Hz. from the 60 Hz.
>" the 25 cycle hum " .. of the big power transformers.
> I can't say that I could hear it - must have been the
>wet behind my ears ..
> John T.
Definitely could tell the differece between 25 anf 60 hz.
Between 50 and 60 you can tell the difference if they are side by side
- particularly if it is a 60hz transformer running on 50 and it starts
to saturate - - - - anyone with "perfect pitch" could tell you if it
was 50 or 60 even when not side by side.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Apr 2024 19:05:42 -0400, Ed P
<esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 4/6/2024 6:02 PM, micky wrote:
>
>>> Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>>>
>>> Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>>> T!) should read.
>>
>> I forgot to include the link:
>> https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering
>>
>> AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
>> who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.
>
>
>The flicker of the lights is also a dangerous thing to be aware of.
>The container ship Dali was entering the Baltimore Port and the lights
>flickered. Soon after, it hit the bridge and knocked it down.
>
>Reliable sources say the pilot hit the light button and caused the
>problem and the trainee did not drop the starboard anchor.

Yes, I think I read that here. Definitely a reliable source.

On 4/6/2024 7:38 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 13:49:41 -0400, Retirednoguilt
> <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2024 10:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> hubops@ccanoemail.com writes:
>>>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>> -T
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>>>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>>>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>>>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>>>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>>>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>>>> ps : have you tried dimmable vs non dimmable ?
>>>> I think all of mine are dimmable ..
>>>
>>> It is "T", trolling you. The frequency used in LED lights
>>> cannot be distinguished by the human eye as "flicker"
>>> (aside some special purpose bulbs like christmas lights).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> T trolls so much you can't tell if he's just crying wolf or being
>> serious. If he's being serious, I suspect the flicker he's complaining
>> about is due to either overloaded or poorly wired electrical service in
>> his home rather than either from what his electric company is providing
>> or from the circuitry inside his bulbs. The flicker he's complaining
>> about is probably due to short duration voltage drops when a high
>> current device turns on (heat pump, refrigerator, etc.) If he lives in
>> a multi-unit dwelling and the wiring is sketchy or the building's
>> service panel supplies insufficient current, the source of the voltage
>> drop might not even be in his unit. I have several Phillips LED bulbs
>> and none of them flicker except very briefly when I turn on a laser printer.
>
>
> Actually I do have one lighting circuit with LEDs that flickers when
> dimmed. Dimmable bulbs. Tried 3 different dimmers. Tried 2 different
> brands of bulbs. It is a slow irregular flicker. All connections have
> been checked - no flicker with incandescents or when full bright.
> Dlicker regardless if there is anything else running in the house -
> and other lights don't flicker. The only thing I have not done is
> change the actual sockets

I have 2 dimmable LED spotlights in the bedroom that we used dimmed to a
low setting for reading lights. Very directional so their light doesn't
go to the wrong persons side. One of those lights flickers if dimmed too
low while the other is on. Turn it up a little or turn off the other and
no flicker. They are both on the same 20 amp circuit.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 22:50:31 -0400, Clare Snyder
<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 18:38:48 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
>><dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In <kahQN.385491$q3F7.346073@fx45.iad> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>>>
>>>
>>>sidenote: back 1975ish I was in the NYC subway station
>>>right next to Penn Station, and the incandescent
>>>lamps were... yes .. wired to the 25 CPS of the
>>>rail road supply. Who knows why?
>>>Anyway, it was a super cold winter, about zero F,
>>>and yes, I definitely saw the flickering.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The old-timers said that they could discern the sound
>>of the 25 Hz. from the 60 Hz.
>>" the 25 cycle hum " .. of the big power transformers.
>> I can't say that I could hear it - must have been the
>>wet behind my ears ..
>> John T.
> Definitely could tell the differece between 25 anf 60 hz.
>Between 50 and 60 you can tell the difference if they are side by side
>- particularly if it is a 60hz transformer running on 50 and it starts
>to saturate - - - - anyone with "perfect pitch" could tell you if it
>was 50 or 60 even when not side by side.

Most people don't have perfect pitch, and many don't come close.

If I hear a C and a D, or even an E, I can't tell which is higher.

Even though I play the piano fairly well, because the two are unrelated.

On 4/6/2024 7:03 PM, JRB Ware wrote:
>
> Ed P wrote:
>> On 4/6/2024 6:02 PM, micky wrote:
>>
>>>> Do LED bulbs flicker, gives a lot of hits in google.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one that seems longer than others and maybe the OP (oh, that's
>>>> T!) should read.
>>>
>>> I forgot to include the link:
>>> https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/blogs/news/top-reasons-why-your-led-lights-keep-flickering
>>>
>>>
>>> AFAICT, most people don't even notice when led's flicker, including some
>>> who "notice" it sublimally and can get headaches etc.
>>
>>
>> The flicker of the lights is also a dangerous thing to be aware of.
>> The container ship Dali was entering the Baltimore Port and the lights
>> flickered.  Soon after, it hit the bridge and knocked it down.
>>
>> Reliable sources say the pilot hit the light button and caused the
>> problem and the trainee did not drop the starboard anchor.
>
>
> That has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

(Assuming you are serious..)

Ed is trying to win Ed's Worst Post Ever award?

I thought it was really funny. Like the dangers of Polio vaccine.

On 4/5/2024 6:10 PM, Xeno wrote:
> <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 12:50:45 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am looking for defused, flicker free LED light bulbs
>>> (5000K, 60w equiv). Had no luck with the Phillips
>>> (waste of money). I see a lot of reviews but then
>>> people complain about the flicker anyway.
>>>
>>> You guys have any tips?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> -T
>>>
>>
>> Flickering all-the-time ? .. intermittent / random ?
>> .. when other devices are going on-off ?
>> I have several LED bulbs in my home and the only
>> flicker I notice is the kitchen ceiling fan lights - 1 flicker -
>> caused by the laser printer coming to life for a print job.
>> The printer is in the next room but may well be off the same circuit.
>
> Shouldn’t be on the same circuit since lights are on a lighting circuit and
> power points are on a separate higher current rating circuit. At least,
> that’s the way it’s done here.
>

The US-NEC does not have separate lighting circuits. Some receptacles
are on power/nonlighting circuits - laundry, bathroom, kitchen related.
General lighting circuits can have computers and other nonlighting loads.

On 2024-04-07, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 06 Apr 2024 22:50:31 -0400, Clare Snyder
><clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 Apr 2024 18:38:48 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
>>><dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In <kahQN.385491$q3F7.346073@fx45.iad> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> I've worked in the 25 Hz flicker -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>sidenote: back 1975ish I was in the NYC subway station
>>>>right next to Penn Station, and the incandescent
>>>>lamps were... yes .. wired to the 25 CPS of the
>>>>rail road supply. Who knows why?
>>>>Anyway, it was a super cold winter, about zero F,
>>>>and yes, I definitely saw the flickering.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The old-timers said that they could discern the sound
>>>of the 25 Hz. from the 60 Hz.
>>>" the 25 cycle hum " .. of the big power transformers.
>>> I can't say that I could hear it - must have been the
>>>wet behind my ears ..
>>> John T.
>> Definitely could tell the differece between 25 anf 60 hz.
>>Between 50 and 60 you can tell the difference if they are side by side
>>- particularly if it is a 60hz transformer running on 50 and it starts
>>to saturate - - - - anyone with "perfect pitch" could tell you if it
>>was 50 or 60 even when not side by side.
>
> Most people don't have perfect pitch, and many don't come close.
>
> If I hear a C and a D, or even an E, I can't tell which is higher.

Perfect pitch isn't required to tell whether one sound is higher
than the other.

Each pitch in a chromatic scale is approximately 10 Hz different from
the preceding or succeeding note. The human ear is capable of
distinguishing much finer gradations.

> Even though I play the piano fairly well, because the two are unrelated.

Good thing you don't play the trombone, or any other instrument that
requires you to produce the desired pitch yourself.

All these years later, I can still hear A 440 Hz in my head from
tuning up in high school band.

--
Cindy Hamilton