Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On 26 Apr 2024 15:55:27 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 26 Apr 2024 02:23:00 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> AFAIK, Slackware has long supplied GNU Emacs.
>>>
>>> Has Slackware caught up with Wayland yet?
>>
>> No.

Apparently I erred. There *is* some Wayland stuff in Slack 15. But
AFAICT, when I type startx, it's X I get, not Wayland and Xwayland.

>> But I'm a trailing-edge-of-technology kind of guy so I'm good with
>> that.
>
> You do realize Slackware now includes PulseAudio, right?

I did notice that somehow audio "just works" without having to open a
mixer window, select a device or driver. Haven't paid attention to
details. AFAIR, the last time I really paid attention to audio was
when I got a new DVD drive and connected the analog cable to the mobo
and it didn't work. Eventually learned that the mfgr included the
external plug on the drive but didn't connect it to anything
internally.

>> (I use twm window manager, have a hand pump at the kitchen sink
>> and my working electric toaster is 111 years old.)
>
> Electric? Don't you have a stove?

Yes, a wood-burning kitchen range. In winter and cool weather,
(today, f'rgzample) a slice of bread on a recycled hibachi grill on
the stove top or directly on the stove cover (if the fire's a bit low)
makes toast. But from mid-May to mid-September, we only have a fire
in the stove when when we want to use the oven (for which we have no
alternative tech) for birthday cakes, lasagne etc. In summer,
stovetop cooking we do on a cast iron, 120 y.o (just guessing here)
two-burner propane hotplate. And toast by electricity.

Century-old joke, incomprehensible if yer so young you've never used
a pre-popup toaster:

Housewife to neighbor having coffee at kitchen table:

George is good for nothing in the kitchen. He can't even make
toast.

George, from next room:

I make toast the same way you do, dear! Put it in the toaster
and burn it, take it to the sink and scrape it.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 27 Apr 2024 14:48:06 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:

> There *is* some Wayland stuff in Slack 15. But
> AFAICT, when I type startx, it's X I get, not Wayland and Xwayland.

Yeah, I had a look, and it appears “startx” continues to start a regular
X11 session; it has no knowledge of anything Wayland.

Seems you have to use a command which is GUI-environment-specific to
launch the Wayland version of that GUI environment. For example,
this doc page <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE#No_display_manager> gives
the command for KDE Plasma as

dbus-launch --exit-with-session startplasma-wayland

Most people I guess just choose the session type from their GUI login
screen, and let the standard setup magic handle the rest.

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

--snip--
>>> (I use twm window manager, have a hand pump at the kitchen sink
>>> and my working electric toaster is 111 years old.)
>>
>> Electric? Don't you have a stove?
>
> Yes, a wood-burning kitchen range. In winter and cool weather,
> (today, f'rgzample) a slice of bread on a recycled hibachi grill on
> the stove top or directly on the stove cover (if the fire's a bit low)
> makes toast. But from mid-May to mid-September, we only have a fire
> in the stove when when we want to use the oven (for which we have no
> alternative tech) for birthday cakes, lasagne etc. In summer,
> stovetop cooking we do on a cast iron, 120 y.o (just guessing here)
> two-burner propane hotplate. And toast by electricity.
>
> Century-old joke, incomprehensible if yer so young you've never used
> a pre-popup toaster:
>
> Housewife to neighbor having coffee at kitchen table:
>
> George is good for nothing in the kitchen. He can't even make
> toast.
>
> George, from next room:
>
> I make toast the same way you do, dear! Put it in the toaster
> and burn it, take it to the sink and scrape it.

I'm genuinely curious. How do you use these kind of toasters? You just
wait until your toasts are done and get them out with pliers or kitchen
gloves? Or do they look like waffle makers, so you can open the device
to get your toast out? I assume there is no timer integrated. Or you
just do it 'George style'?

Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> writes:

> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
>> Century-old joke, incomprehensible if yer so young you've never used
>> a pre-popup toaster:
>>
>> Housewife to neighbor having coffee at kitchen table:
>>
>> George is good for nothing in the kitchen. He can't even make
>> toast.
>>
>> George, from next room:
>>
>> I make toast the same way you do, dear! Put it in the toaster
>> and burn it, take it to the sink and scrape it.
>
> I'm genuinely curious. How do you use these kind of toasters? You just
> wait until your toasts are done and get them out with pliers or kitchen
> gloves? Or do they look like waffle makers, so you can open the device
> to get your toast out? I assume there is no timer integrated. Or you
> just do it 'George style'?

There are (at least) two types. In one type, there is a door- or
hatch-like piece, hinged at the bottom, one on each side of the
toaster. You open the hatch (with a little wood- or
Bakelite-insulated knob), lay the bread on the hatch and close it
upward. That holds the bread near the heating elements. This one is
less ornamental than some:

https://sloanlongway.org/landers-frary-clark-toaster-1906/

As with both types, you must remain alert for the odor of toasting
bread or the first hint of smoke. That hint of smoke typically occurs
well before the toast is actually charred as tiny crumbs burn and
smoke harmlessly. This may depend to an extent on the kind of bread
you use with moderny poof-bread tending perhaps to be crumb-deficient
and more likely to burn. We buy quite substantial, unsliced bread
from a local bakery and slice it with a butcher knife.

In any case, assuming that you've detected that the toast is ready to
turn, you open the hatch(es) whereupon the slice slides down in to the
open hatch cover (that is, in the fully open position, a tray) but
with the untoasted side up. Reclosing the hatch brings the untoasted
side near the heater, whereupon you remain alert for the indicators
and open the toaster at just the right time.

We have one of this type, squirreled away as a backup in case our duty
toaster fails irreparably.

The one we use routinely looks like this:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zpAAAOSwx89lzrNB/s-l500.jpg

The bread is inserted into a sort of rack. When you judge that it's done
one one side, you grab the little insulated Bakelite knob and swing the
rack from one side to the other. Clever linkage makes this work
pretty well.

There is a cutaway or relief in the swing-type rack to let you grab the
slice w/o gloves or tools. With the door type, the slice lies
conveniently on the open door/tray for picking up.

With either type, any distraction may result in toast unacceptably
charred on one side. If the pillar of smoke rising from the toaster
recovers you from your distraction soon enough, and your bread is of a
suitable type, the charring is minimal and can be removed by scraping
with a table knife. This is done at the sink as it sprays charcoal
dust/bits in all directions.

Toasting on the wood range stovetop is subject to the same penalty for
distraction and uses the same remediation at the sink.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
> --snip--
>>>> (I use twm window manager, have a hand pump at the kitchen sink
>>>> and my working electric toaster is 111 years old.)
>>>
>>> Electric? Don't you have a stove?
>>
>> Yes, a wood-burning kitchen range. In winter and cool weather,
>> (today, f'rgzample) a slice of bread on a recycled hibachi grill on
>> the stove top or directly on the stove cover (if the fire's a bit low)
>> makes toast. But from mid-May to mid-September, we only have a fire
>> in the stove when when we want to use the oven (for which we have no
>> alternative tech) for birthday cakes, lasagne etc. In summer,
>> stovetop cooking we do on a cast iron, 120 y.o (just guessing here)
>> two-burner propane hotplate. And toast by electricity.
>>
>> Century-old joke, incomprehensible if yer so young you've never used
>> a pre-popup toaster:
>>
>> Housewife to neighbor having coffee at kitchen table:
>>
>> George is good for nothing in the kitchen. He can't even make
>> toast.
>>
>> George, from next room:
>>
>> I make toast the same way you do, dear! Put it in the toaster
>> and burn it, take it to the sink and scrape it.
>
> I'm genuinely curious. How do you use these kind of toasters? You just
> wait until your toasts are done and get them out with pliers or kitchen
> gloves? Or do they look like waffle makers, so you can open the device
> to get your toast out? I assume there is no timer integrated. Or you
> just do it 'George style'?
>

We used to have one. I don’t know if it’s the same. Heating element in the
middle, doors on side hinged at the bottom and open down. I can’t recall,
but we must have had to flip the bread halfway thru.

https://images.app.goo.gl/pWSwnyDpR3Xggi476

--
Pete

According to Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>:
>George, from next room:
>
> I make toast the same way you do, dear! Put it in the toaster
> and burn it, take it to the sink and scrape it.

My father told me that his father, who was born in 1876, said he was
21 years old before he knew you could make toast without scraping it
off over the sink.

In that era a toaster was a triangular thing you put on the stove. Here's one
intended for camp stoves:

https://www.amazon.com/Folding-Toaster-Stainless-Camping-Breakfast/dp/B0156JJ1I6

and a spiffy modern version:

http://www.deltatoast.com/

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

To: Peter Flass
-=> Peter Flass wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

PF> We used to have one. I donrCOt know if itrCOs the same. Heating
PF> element in the middle, doors on side hinged at the bottom and open
PF> down. I canrCOt recall, but we must have had to flip the bread halfway
PF> thru.

I worked at the company that made the "flying toasters" screen saver. We
had a "toaster museum" in the office, replete with the style you
described, old turn-of-the-century toasters that looked like a fire
hazard even when unplugged, to modern dualit toasters. No toaster ovens,
which superceded upright toasters, IMO.

Nothing like trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich in an upright
toaster. :)

kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet

.... A NEW LIFE AWAITS YOU IN THE OFF-WORLD COLONIES!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Win32 NewsLink 1.114
* realitycheckBBS - Aptos, CA - telnet://realitycheckbbs.org

On Mon, 6 May 2024 06:50:00 -0700, Kurt Weiske wrote:

> I worked at the company that made the "flying toasters" screen saver.

Berkeley Systems? Of the famous “After Dark” screen saver collection?

Great fun for its time. Nowadays, of course, you have the amazing Open
Source collection maintained by Jamie Zawinski. Some of those are truly
mesmerizing.

On Sun, 05 May 2024 12:02:24 +0200, Gabriel Rolland
<gabrielrolland@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> I'm genuinely curious. How do you use these kind of toasters? You just
> wait until your toasts are done and get them out with pliers or kitchen
> gloves? Or do they look like waffle makers, so you can open the device
> to get your toast out? I assume there is no timer integrated. Or you
> just do it 'George style'?

My grandmother had a toaster that sat on a stove burner. I don't know
whether she took it with her when they moved to a house with running
water. I have her stovetop oven, which still works quite well.

(They had electricity, but there was no place to put a bathroom, and
the pump was on a glassed-in porch, so there wasn't a lot of
motivation to wreck a room.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net