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interests / soc.culture.china / Re: Russia's 64th Brigade terrorized Bucha

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o Re: Russia's 64th Brigade terrorized BuchaOleg Smirnov

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Re: Russia's 64th Brigade terrorized Bucha

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From: os3...@netc.eu (Oleg Smirnov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Russia's 64th Brigade terrorized Bucha
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 08:33:46 +0300
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 by: Oleg Smirnov - Thu, 2 Jun 2022 05:33 UTC

In March 29 there was a general announcement, after the negotiation
in Istanbul, - the Russian representatives said that the military
command decided to significantly reduce activities in the near-Kiev
region. The Russian troops were not driven out from Bucha by a Kiev
offencive in the area, in March 30 they simply left Bucha without
specific announcements. In order not to incite Kiev to attack the
retreating units in the back, the Russian military didn't announce
withdrawal from specific localities (which was later used by the
pro-Kiev propaganda to claim the troops remained there until April).

March 31 was sort of day of uncertainty in Bucha, until the locals
had finally realized that the Russian troops had actually left. The
first amateur videos from the abandoned town appeared in the social
networks on the evening of April 1 (8PM GMT and later, - this two
<https://is.gd/fJHyJC> <https://is.gd/LSzwuo> seemed to be the very
first, the both show the same video, - the spot where one of the
hottest local fights occurred). One can see dead bodies and damaged
cars at the streets, which should not surprise anyone, given that,
at some point, some streets of the town were the scene of intense
fightings and/or there were shellings causing collateral casualties
among non-combatants. That's the ugly reality of war, which still
doesn't mean a targeted massacre of civilians. On the part of Kiev,
there was also the so called territorial defense
<https://is.gd/1Vpuxs> <https://is.gd/aWd01c> which members are not
supposed to necessarily wear a military style uniforms (so their
corpses in civilian clothes could be confused with non-combatants).
One pro-regime outlet <https://is.gd/ZIa8V3> itself described it so
that while the Russian troops were attacked from the air by UAVs,
the territorial defence fought them on the ground.

In April 1, the Kiev units, accompanied with some accredited press
reporters, seemingly began cautiously entering the town, but there
were no news reports and claims about loads of corpses of civilians
at the streets. Some local Kiev officials, in their statements in
April 1, casually mentioned the fact of dead bodies (implicitly left
after the battles and still unburied) but didn't accentuate it. Some
of the Atlanticist MSM outlets later claimed <https://is.gd/xrraf7>
that their reporters were at the place already in April 1, but such
claims appeared only in their reports published since April 3, and
there's no credible explanation why they had delayed publication of
such shocking news by a day.

In April 2, the regime began a large-scale operation to completely
"clean up" Bucha using police and other forces, and by evening they
had published an official video report about their action. And this
report is strikingly contrary to the narratives promoted later. The
police drove around various streets of the town and talked to locals
and there were no loads of corpses seen in the video and the locals
said nothing about how the Russians sought to kill them en masse.
The report is here <https://youtu.be/Z7yIyNBMpQY> (I'm not sure they
haven't altered the content recently, and here is its copy without
age restriction <https://youtu.be/lvLlrUMl5zA>). A notable fact is
that in description of their clean-up action, the "national police"
had placed particular emphasis on clearing Bucha "from saboteurs and
accomplices of Russia" with a special forces unit with a frivolously
telling name "Safari" <https://archive.is/6PwGM> (which reveals the
attitude towards those "accomplices of Russia"). This fixation on
"saboteurs and accomplices" has led some to reason that this Safari
unit itself might kill those "accomplices", and it might later be
misrepresented as a result of Russian murderous action. Yet one more
notable fact related to April 2 was that a strict curfew had been
introduced in the town from 9 PM on April 2 to 6 AM on April 5, the
locals were forbidden to leave their homes, and one can only guess
what was happening on the streets of the town during that time (in
the absence of random witnesses).

The very first allegations about atrocities appeared April 2 midday,
the narratives about mass graves and dead civilians had been shot in
the back of their head, and dead civilians with their hands tied
behind their back and the like first appeared (still without images
and videos) in April 2, - there were no such narratives before.

Then, in April 3, a massive and coordinated media campaign started
with more bold and certain narratives, where the loads of corpses at
the streets were shown and the eyewitnesses were telling reporters
their very horrific stories. It was inconsistent with the earlier
reports. Moreover, even during the Russian occupation of Bucha there
were some local bloggers who were not Russia sympathisers but still
managed to post their videos from the occupied town and spoke out
some critical speeches, and what they told at the time in no way is
consistent with the atrocious allegations promoted later.

April 3, the Russian military issued an official rebuttal, and
shortly after it, in turn, the Atlanticist MSM published satellite
images intended to prove that the loads of corpses at the streets
and mass graves were there since mid-March, and other signs of the
Russian war crimes can be seen in the images long before the
withdrawal in late March. Some skeptics claimed that some elements
in the images indicate that the actual date, when those images were
taken, differs from the declared date. I am not competent to judge
such claims, but some more general consideration seems relevant.

It's natural, and the Americans themselves bragged so, the US gives
"real-time intelligence" to the Kiev regime "to help them attack
Russian forces" <https://is.gd/RnRJHJ>, <http://archive.is/bHuev>,
<https://archive.is/1Skgh>. And it must be that not only the US but
also other Western powers use their intelligence capabilities to
provide support to the regime. I think it's reasonable to believe
that in the areas occupied by the Russian troops, the US might keep
its informant agents who provide information about what is really
going on within these areas and what are the real Russian policies
there. And with regard to satellite imagery, the US must be
carefully analysing the satellite images of all the Ukraine's areas
where military activities go on. If the clear signs of the Russian
atrocities / war crimes were visible via satellites, and from other
intelligence, many days before, then why didn't the Atlanticist
powers make this information public before April?

The noted inconsistencies make one suspect that there may be not a
real reality but an attempt to fabricate in hindsight some virtual
reality in accordance to the agenda.

Basically, it's hardly possible to surely deny that some Russian
troops might commit some atrocities. War is a rough, dirty business,
and among soldiers of any army there always may be such persons who
might tend to sadistically abuse their power against non-combatants
or kill non-combatants simply through neglection. Such cases may
happen in any army. However, the Bucha-related story the way it's
presented by the pro-regime propaganda doesn't seem well-consistent.

Such cases require thorough investigation, but one can hardly hope
for a due investigation, given the unhealthy passion with which the
Atlanticism protects the regime and blames Russia for everything.

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