Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!

So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.

Near the sink.

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/

The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/

Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
58" and 6 drawers.

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/

A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.

https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!
>
> So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
> adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.
>
> Near the sink.
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/
>
> The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/
>
> Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
> the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
> wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
> 58" and 6 drawers.
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/
>
> A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/

It all looks great. Nice job on the doors and drawers.

We're still trying to figure out where to put the fridge. I mocked up a
couple of locations with a 2 x 4 frame covered with a sheet, just to get
a visual. Every idea we tried results in a blocked view or huge loss of
cabinet/counter space or some other negative issue.

It's a small 1950's kitchen and SWMBO is starting to understand what
I've been telling her all along: We may not like where the stove and fridge
are but there's a reason they are where they are. It's the only place that
results in maximum cabinet/counter area.

I've even called a couple of kitchen design places and they all agree with
me. While rearranging things may make the kitchen look "prettier", the
loss of storage/work space is something we have to consider. Is it worth
the sacrifice just to please our sense of design?

On 5/31/2023 7:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!
>>
>> So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
>> adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.
>>
>> Near the sink.
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/
>>
>> The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/
>>
>> Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
>> the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
>> wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
>> 58" and 6 drawers.
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/
>>
>> A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/
>
> It all looks great. Nice job on the doors and drawers.
>
> We're still trying to figure out where to put the fridge. I mocked up a
> couple of locations with a 2 x 4 frame covered with a sheet, just to get
> a visual. Every idea we tried results in a blocked view or huge loss of
> cabinet/counter space or some other negative issue.
>
> It's a small 1950's kitchen and SWMBO is starting to understand what
> I've been telling her all along: We may not like where the stove and fridge
> are but there's a reason they are where they are. It's the only place that
> results in maximum cabinet/counter area.
>
> I've even called a couple of kitchen design places and they all agree with
> me. While rearranging things may make the kitchen look "prettier", the
> loss of storage/work space is something we have to consider. Is it worth
> the sacrifice just to please our sense of design?

I redesigned out first kitchen about 34 years ago, and now this one.

Something to consider. On the first kitchen it was an apartment style
kitchen with a narrow path that wound around an elevated "L" shaped bar.
I eliminated the "L". That enabled me to end that section with just a
straight counter top, minus the L. And that opened up a wide path to
enter the kitchen. I added an 11' counter top opposite the counter
that had the L. We doubled maybe closer to tippled our counter space.

I was at a friends house last night and they have have a small kitchen
and much of it is like yours, designed about as good as it gets given
the restraints.

They have a dual level house, you climb the porch stairs up about 5'
tall, go in the door and then immediately go up another 4' or down 5'.
This was a trend 35~40 years ago.

Anyway at the top of the stairs is the Living room, relatively large
with a fire place. Further back the living room goes into a narrower
space to become the dining room. On the back left side of that space
is a doorway that goes immediately in to the kitchen.

"IF" they clocked their dining room table 90 degrees and eliminated the
wall separating the kitchen from the dining room the kitchen could
expand into the dining room.

Food for thought, can you eliminate a kitchen wall and expand out into
another room?

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 5/31/2023 7:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>> Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!
>>>
>>> So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
>>> adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.
>>>
>>> Near the sink.
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/
>>>
>>> The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/
>>>
>>> Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
>>> the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
>>> wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
>>> 58" and 6 drawers.
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/
>>>
>>> A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/
>>
>> It all looks great. Nice job on the doors and drawers.
>>
>> We're still trying to figure out where to put the fridge. I mocked up a
>> couple of locations with a 2 x 4 frame covered with a sheet, just to get
>> a visual. Every idea we tried results in a blocked view or huge loss of
>> cabinet/counter space or some other negative issue.
>>
>> It's a small 1950's kitchen and SWMBO is starting to understand what
>> I've been telling her all along: We may not like where the stove and fridge
>> are but there's a reason they are where they are. It's the only place that
>> results in maximum cabinet/counter area.
>>
>> I've even called a couple of kitchen design places and they all agree with
>> me. While rearranging things may make the kitchen look "prettier", the
>> loss of storage/work space is something we have to consider. Is it worth
>> the sacrifice just to please our sense of design?
>
>I redesigned out first kitchen about 34 years ago, and now this one.
>
>Something to consider. On the first kitchen it was an apartment style
>kitchen with a narrow path that wound around an elevated "L" shaped bar.
>I eliminated the "L". That enabled me to end that section with just a
>straight counter top, minus the L. And that opened up a wide path to
>enter the kitchen. I added an 11' counter top opposite the counter
>that had the L. We doubled maybe closer to tippled our counter space.
>
>I was at a friends house last night and they have have a small kitchen
>and much of it is like yours, designed about as good as it gets given
>the restraints.
>
>They have a dual level house, you climb the porch stairs up about 5'
>tall, go in the door and then immediately go up another 4' or down 5'.
>This was a trend 35~40 years ago.

Isn't that what they call a 'split-level ranch'?

My kitchen (single story ranch, circa 1976) is shaped like
a dogleg. One end of the dogleg is the door to the garage,
the other end opens into the dining room. DR and LR are one
large space spanning the width of the house.

Basic working organization is the traditional triangle;
sink-gas stove-refrigerator.

California granite countertops, ceramic faux wood-plank
tile floor (extending into LR/DR/hallway); recessed copper
single-basin sink, with bay window behind sink. Glass
walls. Cream-colored cabinets, several with glass
fronts all slow-close. Lots of drawer space. Swing-out
shelves in the corner base cabinet. 36" reefer,
wine fridge and drybar. Over-under wall-mount microwave and electric
oven (smaller than the gas oven in the Technogas range).
Pull-out vertical spice racks on either side of the range
in the floor cabinets.

https://www.superiore.us/range-deco-36-classic-6-gas-gas-oven-black-dual-color-brass-v46

The previous owner had done a complete remodel and
spared little expense - self-closing cabinets and drawers
with quality slides. He removed a skylight and added
the bay window. Great undercabinet lighting (even has
USB ports for chargers). Nothing really for me to
do to make it better (other than finishing the
incomplete wiring for the undercabinet lighting).

On 6/3/2023 10:10 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 5/31/2023 7:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!
>>>>
>>>> So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
>>>> adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.
>>>>
>>>> Near the sink.
>>>>
>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/
>>>>
>>>> The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.
>>>>
>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/
>>>>
>>>> Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
>>>> the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
>>>> wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
>>>> 58" and 6 drawers.
>>>>
>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/
>>>>
>>>> A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.
>>>>
>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/
>>>
>>> It all looks great. Nice job on the doors and drawers.
>>>
>>> We're still trying to figure out where to put the fridge. I mocked up a
>>> couple of locations with a 2 x 4 frame covered with a sheet, just to get
>>> a visual. Every idea we tried results in a blocked view or huge loss of
>>> cabinet/counter space or some other negative issue.
>>>
>>> It's a small 1950's kitchen and SWMBO is starting to understand what
>>> I've been telling her all along: We may not like where the stove and fridge
>>> are but there's a reason they are where they are. It's the only place that
>>> results in maximum cabinet/counter area.
>>>
>>> I've even called a couple of kitchen design places and they all agree with
>>> me. While rearranging things may make the kitchen look "prettier", the
>>> loss of storage/work space is something we have to consider. Is it worth
>>> the sacrifice just to please our sense of design?
>>
>> I redesigned out first kitchen about 34 years ago, and now this one.
>>
>> Something to consider. On the first kitchen it was an apartment style
>> kitchen with a narrow path that wound around an elevated "L" shaped bar.
>> I eliminated the "L". That enabled me to end that section with just a
>> straight counter top, minus the L. And that opened up a wide path to
>> enter the kitchen. I added an 11' counter top opposite the counter
>> that had the L. We doubled maybe closer to tippled our counter space.
>>
>> I was at a friends house last night and they have have a small kitchen
>> and much of it is like yours, designed about as good as it gets given
>> the restraints.
>>
>> They have a dual level house, you climb the porch stairs up about 5'
>> tall, go in the door and then immediately go up another 4' or down 5'.
>> This was a trend 35~40 years ago.
>
> Isn't that what they call a 'split-level ranch'?

Maybe but the house is pretty much a rectangle and the first story is
the same size as the second story, directly on top. The second story
does not change the footprint.

>
> My kitchen (single story ranch, circa 1976) is shaped like
> a dogleg. One end of the dogleg is the door to the garage,
> the other end opens into the dining room. DR and LR are one
> large space spanning the width of the house.
>
> Basic working organization is the traditional triangle;
> sink-gas stove-refrigerator.
>
> California granite countertops, ceramic faux wood-plank
> tile floor (extending into LR/DR/hallway); recessed copper
> single-basin sink, with bay window behind sink. Glass
> walls. Cream-colored cabinets, several with glass
> fronts all slow-close. Lots of drawer space. Swing-out
> shelves in the corner base cabinet. 36" reefer,
> wine fridge and drybar. Over-under wall-mount microwave and electric
> oven (smaller than the gas oven in the Technogas range).
> Pull-out vertical spice racks on either side of the range
> in the floor cabinets.
>
> https://www.superiore.us/range-deco-36-classic-6-gas-gas-oven-black-dual-color-brass-v46

I was hoping that you had a pic of your kitchen. ;~)
>
> The previous owner had done a complete remodel and
> spared little expense - self-closing cabinets and drawers
> with quality slides. He removed a skylight and added
> the bay window. Great undercabinet lighting (even has
> USB ports for chargers). Nothing really for me to
> do to make it better (other than finishing the
> incomplete wiring for the undercabinet lighting).

Sounds great! I went with self/soft close side mount drawer slides,
Dura Close from Hardware Resources. I use those on a kitchen redo 2
years ago and was pretty impressed by their closing mechanism. I have
had issues with KV G-Slide slides not wanting to close all of they way
when the capture pin that pulls the drawer completely closed wears out.
The Dura Close uses a larger steel T shaped capture pin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOIlJYlcXXk

I have looked at soft close cabinet doors but I use Blum Euro hinges
that attach to the inside edge of the face frame as opposed to a bracket
inside and on the cabinet side. Those transfer the strain of the soft
close to the cabinet carcass. My fear with using a soft close hinge
that attaches to the face frame is that some one pushing the cabinet
door closed, faster than the soft close hinge is designed, could place
excess strain on the FF. Nothing proven there just a long term concern.

I use LED ribbon lighting that self sticks to the bottom of the
cabinets. I bought this from Lee Valley 10-11 years ago and they have
worked well. We leave them on 24/7 to help with negotiating a trip to
the kitchen during the night for a drink.
You don't reuse them after 10 years so I bought more ribbon and a bigger
transformer, this time from Amazon, same brand, for less.

https://www.armacostlighting.com/

If the your cabinets are prefab, not built on site, you likely have
narrow gaps between the cabinets and behind the face frames, assuming
you don't have frame less Euro style cabinets. You can run your wires
in those spaces.

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 10:13:23 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 5/31/2023 7:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> Today we put in the toe kicks, and base boards, no pictures of that. Boring!
> >>
> >> So here are shots of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts installed. Not
> >> adjusted yet but they fit good as is so far.
> >>
> >> Near the sink.
> >>
> >> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531074/in/datetaken/
> >>
> >> The 35" x 128" pony wall revision with 12 large drawers.
> >>
> >> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52917796562/in/datetaken/
> >>
> >> Before adding the drawer pulls and where the refrigerator WAS. This was
> >> the whole point of the project. With the refrigerator in this spot my
> >> wife had an 18" wide counter top to the left of the range. Now she has
> >> 58" and 6 drawers.
> >>
> >> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52918531089/in/datetaken/
> >>
> >> A closer detail of how the doors and drawers look.
> >>
> >> https://flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/52930577384/in/datetaken/
> >
> > It all looks great. Nice job on the doors and drawers.
> >
> > We're still trying to figure out where to put the fridge. I mocked up a
> > couple of locations with a 2 x 4 frame covered with a sheet, just to get
> > a visual. Every idea we tried results in a blocked view or huge loss of
> > cabinet/counter space or some other negative issue.
> >
> > It's a small 1950's kitchen and SWMBO is starting to understand what
> > I've been telling her all along: We may not like where the stove and fridge
> > are but there's a reason they are where they are. It's the only place that
> > results in maximum cabinet/counter area.
> >
> > I've even called a couple of kitchen design places and they all agree with
> > me. While rearranging things may make the kitchen look "prettier", the
> > loss of storage/work space is something we have to consider. Is it worth
> > the sacrifice just to please our sense of design?
> I redesigned out first kitchen about 34 years ago, and now this one.
>
> Something to consider. On the first kitchen it was an apartment style
> kitchen with a narrow path that wound around an elevated "L" shaped bar.
> I eliminated the "L". That enabled me to end that section with just a
> straight counter top, minus the L. And that opened up a wide path to
> enter the kitchen. I added an 11' counter top opposite the counter
> that had the L. We doubled maybe closer to tippled our counter space.
>
> I was at a friends house last night and they have have a small kitchen
> and much of it is like yours, designed about as good as it gets given
> the restraints.
>
> They have a dual level house, you climb the porch stairs up about 5'
> tall, go in the door and then immediately go up another 4' or down 5'.
> This was a trend 35~40 years ago.
>
> Anyway at the top of the stairs is the Living room, relatively large
> with a fire place. Further back the living room goes into a narrower
> space to become the dining room. On the back left side of that space
> is a doorway that goes immediately in to the kitchen.
>
> "IF" they clocked their dining room table 90 degrees and eliminated the
> wall separating the kitchen from the dining room the kitchen could
> expand into the dining room.
>
> Food for thought, can you eliminate a kitchen wall and expand out into
> another room?

Sure, if we want to give up some of the already too-small the living
room. Plus it’s a load bearing wall, which of course *could* be dealt
by adding a beam. Rerouting the 4 HVAC ducts and 2 returns should
be a breeze too. ;-)

In the end, all it would do is make the living room narrower and the
kitchen wider. It wouldn’t add any more counter space or room for
an appliance.

I’ve got 2 “designers” from local kitchen remodeling places coming
over on Thursday to confirm what I already know. There always the
chance that they’ll see something that I’m missing, like a certain style
of fridge that will fit (and open) in a spot that I don’t see or something
like that. My gut feeling is that we’ll end up leaving the kitchen layout
just as it is. New appliances, new countertop, the new doors/drawer
fronts that I’m working on and we’ll be done.