Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:04:35 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>>>
>>> Click on an active auction - there is a link for "Auction Terms"
>>> that describes the 15 % buyer premium and some other details
>>> but I didn't see any shipping services ? But I suspect it's
>>> somewhere in their info .. Perhaps you need to register first ?
>>
>> When I have to register in order to get basic info, I am less
>> inclined to go even further. Auctions sites, clothing, tools, random
>> news, ... nope.
>
>Well, this is a legitimate business. They rent a conference room (or 4),
>travel with everything round trip from the east cost, have employees
>that need to be lodged and fed, etc. I wrote that with a little
>patience, you could probably get just about anything that you want. I
>didn't say it would be cheap! : ) I am someone who doesn't own any
>"green" tools. When I went, I talked briefly with a couple who came
>from Illinois for the "event". That's a four-night stay at the motel
>plus travel and meal costs--all in addition to the cost of any tools
>procured! But I guess they didn't have to pay "shipping" on them, just
>the 15% buyers premium. ; ) I forget whether there was an entry fee,
>but I believe there was a "nominal" one, maybe $15. If you think about
>it, the auction house only makes it's money on the entree fee, the
>buyers premium, and maybe their catalog, and they need to deduct all of
>their "expenses" from those things alone. Well, they most-likely charge
>a "sellers fee" too.

Thanks fo that info.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:04:35 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>>> Click on an active auction - there is a link for "Auction Terms"
>>> that describes the 15 % buyer premium and some other details
>>> but I didn't see any shipping services ? But I suspect it's
>>> somewhere in their info .. Perhaps you need to register first ?
>>
>> When I have to register in order to get basic info, I am less
>> inclined to go even further. Auctions sites, clothing, tools, random
>> news, ... nope.
>
>Well, this is a legitimate business.

Is not a question of "Is this a legitimate business?" MDJ Tools
is as far as I can tell, legit. But having to wade through a bunch of
stuff to find out about shipping, "title, tax, and license" for total
costs, annoys the heck out of me.

Mine is a question more of "How do I know if I want to buy from
you when I have to create an account in order to see what you have?"

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On 3/30/2023 12:21 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:04:35 -0400 typed in

>>> When I have to register in order to get basic info, I am less
>>> inclined to go even further. Auctions sites, clothing, tools, random
>>> news, ... nope.
>>
>> Well, this is a legitimate business.
>
> Is not a question of "Is this a legitimate business?" MDJ Tools
> is as far as I can tell, legit. But having to wade through a bunch of
> stuff to find out about shipping, "title, tax, and license" for total
> costs, annoys the heck out of me.
>
> Mine is a question more of "How do I know if I want to buy from
> you when I have to create an account in order to see what you have?"
>

I understand and would feel the same way! I haven't visited their web
site recently. I think it's safe to say that they will make the buyer
pay the full shipping fees (but they will probably combine orders to
minimize them).

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:39:38 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>On 3/30/2023 12:21 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:04:35 -0400 typed in
>
>>>> When I have to register in order to get basic info, I am less
>>>> inclined to go even further. Auctions sites, clothing, tools, random
>>>> news, ... nope.
>>>
>>> Well, this is a legitimate business.
>>
>> Is not a question of "Is this a legitimate business?" MDJ Tools
>> is as far as I can tell, legit. But having to wade through a bunch of
>> stuff to find out about shipping, "title, tax, and license" for total
>> costs, annoys the heck out of me.
>>
>> Mine is a question more of "How do I know if I want to buy from
>> you when I have to create an account in order to see what you have?"
>>
>
>I understand and would feel the same way! I haven't visited their web
>site recently. I think it's safe to say that they will make the buyer
>pay the full shipping fees (but they will probably combine orders to
>minimize them).
>

The auctioneers in my area all have the shipping details clearly
defined in their " Terms ". They tack on a handling fee
for their trouble plus the shipping cost. There are always many
items that they will not ship - clearly stated in the description
of the item.
You need to register and log-in to make a bid - but it' not
required just to see the details, terms, and all the bidding.
Some will post the final selling prices - some do not.

This is just posted as an example - not for tools content :

https://jantziauctions.hibid.com/auction/441746/april-10-23-online-auction/

The condundrum over "collectors" and bargain hunters exists in
most of these auctions - the selling prices usually climb when the
item is close to closing - the beauty of the online auction is that
you can bid your maximum as your first and only bid - then carry
on with your life ! .. the bidding increases in defined increments
- you get a notification when you are outbid or when you are
the successful buyer.
John T.

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) on Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:48:39 GMT
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>
>> Like a lot of these things - I could make one, but who has the
>>time?
>>
>> So, recommendations for sources for similar hand tools? Or parts?
>
>Flea markets and antique stores have been my go-to. Just picked up a
>nice Stanley Bailey #2 at a local antique store for $25. Felt guilty and
>gave the dealer an additional $20 since the plane is worth far more than
>that on the collectors market and it cleaned up nicely.
>
>Pete Neiderberger advertises in fine woodworking, and Pat Leach (http://www.supertool.com/).
>
>I've purchased from both.
>
>https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Many thanks.

Not sure I'll be buying but still "oh man ..."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:39:38 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On 3/30/2023 12:21 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:04:35 -0400 typed in
>
>>>> When I have to register in order to get basic info, I am less
>>>> inclined to go even further. Auctions sites, clothing, tools, random
>>>> news, ... nope.
>>>
>>> Well, this is a legitimate business.
>>
>> Is not a question of "Is this a legitimate business?" MDJ Tools
>> is as far as I can tell, legit. But having to wade through a bunch of
>> stuff to find out about shipping, "title, tax, and license" for total
>> costs, annoys the heck out of me.
>>
>> Mine is a question more of "How do I know if I want to buy from
>> you when I have to create an account in order to see what you have?"
>>
>
>I understand and would feel the same way! I haven't visited their web
>site recently. I think it's safe to say that they will make the buyer
>pay the full shipping fees (but they will probably combine orders to
>minimize them).

As I used to wisecrack "Of course there's a shipping and handling
fee. Those fingerprints don't get on the merchandise without effort!"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On 3/30/2023 8:32 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

> The condundrum over "collectors" and bargain hunters exists in
> most of these auctions - the selling prices usually climb when the
> item is close to closing - the beauty of the online auction is that
> you can bid your maximum as your first and only bid - then carry
> on with your life !

The problem with that is that some sellers have learned to game the
system. Basically, the seller, or her "friend", will outbid you and
cancel the bid if it is the highest. Ebay has special rules for
cancellation which one can read if interested. Having felt the victim of
this, I often place my ebay bid in the final seconds of an auction.
THEN, it works the way you wish, or at least it is more likely.

In a related story, someone in my area was selling a lathe on Ebay.
Then I saw the same photos on Craigslist the day after the auction. The
seller told me he outbid me because he "didn't think my bid was high
enough"--he said it was my fault for not bidding more. Without going
into the details, I don't think he payed Ebay any commission either.
It's a jungle out there... ; ) I ordered some "tested" new speakers for
my television off of Ali-express last year, and they were worse than the
bad one I already had. I just "ate" the $30-40 cost. Some purchases work
out okay too! Oh, I bought a "used" GPU last year off E-bay last year,
and it didn't work at all (and it didn't look like it saw a day of work
in it's life despite seller claims to the contrary). I got back my
money, but not my time.

.. the bidding increases in defined increments
> - you get a notification when you are outbid or when you are
> the successful buyer.
> John T.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 21:47:17 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>On 3/30/2023 8:32 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>> The condundrum over "collectors" and bargain hunters exists in
>> most of these auctions - the selling prices usually climb when the
>> item is close to closing - the beauty of the online auction is that
>> you can bid your maximum as your first and only bid - then carry
>> on with your life !
>
>The problem with that is that some sellers have learned to game the
>system. Basically, the seller, or her "friend", will outbid you and
>cancel the bid if it is the highest. Ebay has special rules for
>cancellation which one can read if interested. Having felt the victim of
>this, I often place my ebay bid in the final seconds of an auction.
>THEN, it works the way you wish, or at least it is more likely.
>

The auction sales that I'm referring to are not ebay - they are
estate and consignment auctions run by an established local auction
company - there is no cancelling of bids possible - you register
with your credit card and it gets billed soon after closing.
As a buyer - if you bid your maximum as your first and only bid
then you cannot be gamed in any way - someone out bid you -
- period. If it was the seller - he pays 15 % buyers fee plus
13 % sales tax and then tries to sell it again ? possible .. but
quite doubtful. Add the bother of delivering the item to the
auctioneer's site and picking it up again ..
John T.

On 3/30/2023 9:47 PM, Bill wrote:

> In a related story, someone in my area was selling a lathe on Ebay.
> Then I saw the same photos on Craigslist the day after the auction. The
> seller told me he outbid me because he "didn't think my bid was high
> enough"--he said it was my fault for not bidding more.  Without going
> into the details, I don't think he payed Ebay any commission either.
> It's a jungle out there... ; )
It occurred to me that I have seen the same phenomenon at my local
auction house. Say the auction has a box of "identical" widgets. There
is this person standing next to me in the front row that bids just
frequently enough to make sure no widget is sold for less than $15. I
didn't catch on immediately. Same place, different day--a worker
followed me over to a different building to quietly look over someone's
shoulder to stare at the computer screen to examine the bid I was
placing in advance on a piece of furniture. I notified the "management"
explaining that it would all be on their video camera, and they said
"Find a different auction house if you want". Maybe it is just a
coincidence, but I don't think I've been back. I have one or two more
stories like those, but those two are enough to make my point. Things
aren't always as they seem! :) My final offering to you, which might
save you some money, is to "bid as nonchalantly as you can". In
particular, a bid placed in advance is not as subtle as it might be...
you may get a better price bidding in person. YMMV.

On 3/30/2023 11:07 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 21:47:17 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2023 8:32 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The condundrum over "collectors" and bargain hunters exists in
>>> most of these auctions - the selling prices usually climb when the
>>> item is close to closing - the beauty of the online auction is that
>>> you can bid your maximum as your first and only bid - then carry
>>> on with your life !
>>
>> The problem with that is that some sellers have learned to game the
>> system. Basically, the seller, or her "friend", will outbid you and
>> cancel the bid if it is the highest. Ebay has special rules for
>> cancellation which one can read if interested. Having felt the victim of
>> this, I often place my ebay bid in the final seconds of an auction.
>> THEN, it works the way you wish, or at least it is more likely.
>>
>
> The auction sales that I'm referring to are not ebay - they are
> estate and consignment auctions run by an established local auction
> company - there is no cancelling of bids possible - you register
> with your credit card and it gets billed soon after closing.
> As a buyer - if you bid your maximum as your first and only bid
> then you cannot be gamed in any way - someone out bid you -
> - period. If it was the seller - he pays 15 % buyers fee plus
> 13 % sales tax

Yes, Unless he works for the auction house, right? He doesn't even need
to move item. He can sell it "next week" from the exact same location.

and then tries to sell it again ? possible .. but
> quite doubtful. Add the bother of delivering the item to the
> auctioneer's site and picking it up again ..
> John T.

>>>
>>> The problem with that is that some sellers have learned to game the
>>> system. Basically, the seller, or her "friend", will outbid you and
>>> cancel the bid if it is the highest. Ebay has special rules for
>>> cancellation which one can read if interested. Having felt the victim of
>>> this, I often place my ebay bid in the final seconds of an auction.
>>> THEN, it works the way you wish, or at least it is more likely.
>>>
>>
>> The auction sales that I'm referring to are not ebay - they are
>> estate and consignment auctions run by an established local auction
>> company - there is no cancelling of bids possible - you register
>> with your credit card and it gets billed soon after closing.
>> As a buyer - if you bid your maximum as your first and only bid
>> then you cannot be gamed in any way - someone out bid you -
>> - period. If it was the seller - he pays 15 % buyers fee plus
>> 13 % sales tax and then tries to sell it again ? possible .. but
>> quite doubtful. Add the bother of delivering the item to the
>> auctioneer's site and picking it up again ..
>> John T.

>Yes, Unless he works for the auction house, right? He doesn't even need
>to move item. He can sell it "next week" from the exact same location.
>

Nope. You're just dreamin' stuff up now - be careful that little
pixies don't come and steal your gold fillings while you sleep !
John T.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 23:17:03 -0400, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>On 3/30/2023 9:47 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> In a related story, someone in my area was selling a lathe on Ebay.
>> Then I saw the same photos on Craigslist the day after the auction. The
>> seller told me he outbid me because he "didn't think my bid was high
>> enough"--he said it was my fault for not bidding more.  Without going
>> into the details, I don't think he payed Ebay any commission either.
>> It's a jungle out there... ; )

>It occurred to me that I have seen the same phenomenon at my local
>auction house. Say the auction has a box of "identical" widgets. There
>is this person standing next to me in the front row that bids just
>frequently enough to make sure no widget is sold for less than $15. I
>didn't catch on immediately. Same place, different day--a worker
>followed me over to a different building to quietly look over someone's
>shoulder to stare at the computer screen to examine the bid I was
>placing in advance on a piece of furniture. I notified the "management"
>explaining that it would all be on their video camera, and they said
>"Find a different auction house if you want". Maybe it is just a
>coincidence, but I don't think I've been back. I have one or two more
>stories like those, but those two are enough to make my point. Things
>aren't always as they seem! :) My final offering to you, which might
>save you some money, is to "bid as nonchalantly as you can". In
>particular, a bid placed in advance is not as subtle as it might be...
>you may get a better price bidding in person. YMMV.

The pandemic pushed our local auctioneers from live auctiona
to online auctions - where they seem to do better for most items -
- they're staying online for that reason - with just a couple of
old-school guys trying to go back to live sales. A few have devised
a combination live + online but I haven't looked at their sales -
large equipment sales.
Anyone who thinks that they're getting gamed at an auction sale
is usually just a tightwad or sore loser.
John T.

On 3/31/2023 12:13 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

> Anyone who thinks that they're getting gamed at an auction sale
> is usually just a tightwad or sore loser.
>

Anyone who thinks people won't use methods available to them to take
extra bucks off the table is naive or somehow has a vested interest!
I've seen enough to know (one of my previous posts mentioned a few
incidents). How many auctions have you actually attended?

On 3/31/2023 12:01 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> The problem with that is that some sellers have learned to game the
>>>> system. Basically, the seller, or her "friend", will outbid you and
>>>> cancel the bid if it is the highest. Ebay has special rules for
>>>> cancellation which one can read if interested. Having felt the victim of
>>>> this, I often place my ebay bid in the final seconds of an auction.
>>>> THEN, it works the way you wish, or at least it is more likely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The auction sales that I'm referring to are not ebay - they are
>>> estate and consignment auctions run by an established local auction
>>> company - there is no cancelling of bids possible - you register
>>> with your credit card and it gets billed soon after closing.
>>> As a buyer - if you bid your maximum as your first and only bid
>>> then you cannot be gamed in any way - someone out bid you -
>>> - period. If it was the seller - he pays 15 % buyers fee plus
>>> 13 % sales tax and then tries to sell it again ? possible .. but
>>> quite doubtful. Add the bother of delivering the item to the
>>> auctioneer's site and picking it up again ..
>>> John T.
>
>
>> Yes, Unless he works for the auction house, right? He doesn't even need
>> to move item. He can sell it "next week" from the exact same location.
>>
>
> Nope. You're just dreamin' stuff up now - be careful that little
> pixies don't come and steal your gold fillings while you sleep !
> John T.

There is no shame in admitting you haven't thought this out.

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:55:26 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> The other day I got an auction site in my social media feed. Lots
> of old tools. "Ook, ook, me want!"
>
> But these are being sold as collectibles and for "collectors",
> which is cool and groovey, but ... I'm looking for tools I can use. On
> the other hand, I see tools I didn't know I wanted until I see the
> picture. E.G., "Stair rabbet saw" - which could also be a "kerf
> cutter" for ripping timbers /lumber. And similar old school tools
> which put the "work" into "woodworking". (After using the hand tools,
> you understand why power tools were invented. But I digress.)
>
> Like a lot of these things - I could make one, but who has the
> time?
>
> So, recommendations for sources for similar hand tools? Or parts?
> --
> pyotr filipivich.
> Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
> "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
> boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

This store in Catskill, NY is fantastic... not giving anything away but fairly priced. I like looking around there for things I don't have but need. No more tool museum in my shop!

https://www.facebook.com/people/Swamp-Angel-Antiques/100054373877354/

Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
> On 3/23/2023 10:55 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> > The other day I got an auction site in my social media feed. Lots
> > of old tools. "Ook, ook, me want!"
>
> There is an auction house that specialized in "old school tools" (I will
> look them up for you if you are interested). IIRC, they are located out
> east, but they travel a bit. They post all of
> their "stuff" online, and even publish a catalog. I visited them when
> they held their auction at a motel in Indianpolis (I think they do this
> once a year). One issue is that with 150 tool "collectors" in a room
> (not counting those online), 99% of things do not sell for prices one
> might consider attractive. I bought a set of 6 miscellaneous molding
> planes for $40, just so I didn't have to come home "empty handed".
> In short, there is still interest out there for "old school tools".

I came across this video on an auction from Brown Tools:
https://buildshownetwork.com/contents/antique-tool-auction
who appear to be:
https://www.finetoolj.com/

On 4/12/2023 1:20 PM, Theo wrote:
> Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>> On 3/23/2023 10:55 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> The other day I got an auction site in my social media feed. Lots
>>> of old tools. "Ook, ook, me want!"
>>
>> There is an auction house that specialized in "old school tools" (I will
>> look them up for you if you are interested). IIRC, they are located out
>> east, but they travel a bit. They post all of
>> their "stuff" online, and even publish a catalog. I visited them when
>> they held their auction at a motel in Indianpolis (I think they do this
>> once a year). One issue is that with 150 tool "collectors" in a room
>> (not counting those online), 99% of things do not sell for prices one
>> might consider attractive. I bought a set of 6 miscellaneous molding
>> planes for $40, just so I didn't have to come home "empty handed".
>> In short, there is still interest out there for "old school tools".
>
> I came across this video on an auction from Brown Tools:
> https://buildshownetwork.com/contents/antique-tool-auction
> who appear to be:
> https://www.finetoolj.com/

The auction appears *very* similar, but it appears to be a different
company that the one I posted a link to earlier. Looks like good stuff,
huh? My wife said she'd wait for me in the lobby (of the hotel). : )

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 4:14:09 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
> On 4/12/2023 1:20 PM, Theo wrote:
> > Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:
> >> On 3/23/2023 10:55 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >>> The other day I got an auction site in my social media feed. Lots
> >>> of old tools. "Ook, ook, me want!"
> >>
> >> There is an auction house that specialized in "old school tools" (I will
> >> look them up for you if you are interested). IIRC, they are located out
> >> east, but they travel a bit. They post all of
> >> their "stuff" online, and even publish a catalog. I visited them when
> >> they held their auction at a motel in Indianpolis (I think they do this
> >> once a year). One issue is that with 150 tool "collectors" in a room
> >> (not counting those online), 99% of things do not sell for prices one
> >> might consider attractive. I bought a set of 6 miscellaneous molding
> >> planes for $40, just so I didn't have to come home "empty handed".
> >> In short, there is still interest out there for "old school tools".
> >
> > I came across this video on an auction from Brown Tools:
> > https://buildshownetwork.com/contents/antique-tool-auction
> > who appear to be:
> > https://www.finetoolj.com/
> The auction appears *very* similar, but it appears to be a different
> company that the one I posted a link to earlier. Looks like good stuff,
> huh? My wife said she'd wait for me in the lobby (of the hotel). : )

Is that where the bar is? ;-)

On 4/12/2023 4:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 4:14:09 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:

>>> I came across this video on an auction from Brown Tools:
>>> https://buildshownetwork.com/contents/antique-tool-auction
>>> who appear to be:
>>> https://www.finetoolj.com/
>> The auction appears *very* similar, but it appears to be a different
>> company that the one I posted a link to earlier. Looks like good stuff,
>> huh? My wife said she'd wait for me in the lobby (of the hotel). : )
>
> Is that where the bar is? ;-)

It's worse than that. I think she has a cell phone growing out of her
hand! : )