After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.

Bob

On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.
>
> Bob

I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
a Starrett that does the same thing?

Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett.  I should have done
>> this a long time ago.
>>
>> Bob
>
> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> a Starrett that does the same thing?
>
> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>

The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
on the spring.

I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
several times.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:24:03 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>>> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett.  I should have done
>>> this a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
>> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
>> a Starrett that does the same thing?
>>
>> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>>
>
>The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
>spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
>on the spring.
>

No pulling up involved in these spring loaded ones -
- just pressing down :

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/punches/56652-spring-loaded-punches

The Starrett is the same - position the point & push down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsY8U4exqOE

There is a version that self centers for hinges.

John T.

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:12:14 AM UTC-4, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.
>
> Bob

What failed?

I had an HF center punch that failed after about 10 years, so
I bought another one. Still going strong, although I don't remember
how long I've had the 2nd one. It's been quite a while, i.e. years.

The 1st device stopped firing. Current price is $4. I'd buy it again.

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 11:47:36 AM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:24:03 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
> >On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
> >> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> >>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
> >>> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
> >>> this a long time ago.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>
> >> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> >> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> >> a Starrett that does the same thing?
> >>
> >> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
> >>
> >
> >The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
> >spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
> >on the spring.
> >
> No pulling up involved in these spring loaded ones -
> - just pressing down :
>
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/punches/56652-spring-loaded-punches
>
> The Starrett is the same - position the point & push down.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsY8U4exqOE
>
> There is a version that self centers for hinges.
>
> John T.

I've used brad point drill bits as center punches.

For my last project, where I wanted to plug the screw holes,
I made a jig from 1/2" ply with 3/8" holes to line up the screw
holes. I chucked up a 3/8" brad point bit, held the jig in place,
and gave the trigger a quick pull in each hole. Removed the jig
and drilled each hole with a counter sink bit, then drove the
screws.

It's good to have 3 cordless drills. ;-)

In rec.woodworking, Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
> After the failure of the third miscellaneous
> brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet
> and bought a Starrett. I should have done this
> a long time ago.

About ten years ago I bought an automatic center punch from my local
hardware store. Clerk selling it said she'd recently had the same brand
one fail on her (busted spring) and I should save the receipt in case it
happens to me.

It hasn't, and I tossed the receipt, which I had tacked up on the wall
next to the bench, earlier this year.

Elijah
------
might consider replacing spring if it breaks

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.
> >
> > Bob
> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> a Starrett that does the same thing?
>
> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>
> --
> Jack
> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

I saw an article that highlighted the number of designs for automatic center punch at the US Patent office. The variations are an assortment of springs, ball bearings, and odd shaped metal pistons - not quite as uncomplicated as outside appearances.

Every one of mine that failed, just quit releasing the spring energy designed to slam the punch into the target workpiece. There was no obvious wear or misalignment.

Bob

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:24:08 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> >> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
> >> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
> >> this a long time ago.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> > to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> > a Starrett that does the same thing?
> >
> > Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
> >
> The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
> spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
> on the spring.
>
> I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
> old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
> several times.

An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.

Bob

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 9:05:58 PM UTC-4, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:24:08 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> > On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
> > > On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > >> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
> > >> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
> > >> this a long time ago.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >
> > > I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> > > to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> > > a Starrett that does the same thing?
> > >
> > > Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
> > >
> > The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
> > spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
> > on the spring.
> >
> > I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
> > old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
> > several times.
> An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.
>
> Bob

....and it's good to have multiple methods.

Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> on Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:05:55 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:24:08 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
>> > On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>> >> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>> >> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
>> >> this a long time ago.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >
>> > I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
>> > to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
>> > a Starrett that does the same thing?
>> >
>> > Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>> >
>> The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
>> spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
>> on the spring.
>>
>> I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
>> old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
>> several times.
>
>An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.

I have seen, (and sold) some which aren't "automatic" but are two
parts connected by a spring. place the pointy end on the target, pull
the other 'handle' away and let go, the spring provides enough "oomph"
to make the mark.
I wish I'd bought one. My one automatic punch has a burr ...
works fin as a "punch" but the pointy bit doesn't slide.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 08:54:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> on Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:05:55 -0700
>(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:24:08 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> > On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> >> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>>> >> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
>>> >> this a long time ago.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bob
>>> >
>>> > I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
>>> > to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
>>> > a Starrett that does the same thing?
>>> >
>>> > Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>>> >
>>> The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
>>> spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
>>> on the spring.
>>>
>>> I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
>>> old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
>>> several times.
>>
>>An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.
>
> I have seen, (and sold) some which aren't "automatic" but are two
>parts connected by a spring. place the pointy end on the target, pull
>the other 'handle' away and let go, the spring provides enough "oomph"
>to make the mark.
> I wish I'd bought one. My one automatic punch has a burr ...
>works fin as a "punch" but the pointy bit doesn't slide.

Woodcraft sells these with different sized pointy ends for hinges. I
don't see them on their site but they had them in the store(?).

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 15:46:32 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 08:54:00 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Bob Davis <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> on Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:05:55 -0700
>>(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:24:08 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> > On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>> >> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>>>> >> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done
>>>> >> this a long time ago.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Bob
>>>> >
>>>> > I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
>>>> > to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
>>>> > a Starrett that does the same thing?
>>>> >
>>>> > Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>>>> >
>>>> The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch. Some are
>>>> spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
>>>> on the spring.
>>>>
>>>> I use a pointy pokey thing, similar to an awl. for wood and a 40 year
>>>> old Craftsman center punch for metal. I have re-pointed that one
>>>> several times.
>>>
>>>An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.
>>
>> I have seen, (and sold) some which aren't "automatic" but are two
>>parts connected by a spring. place the pointy end on the target, pull
>>the other 'handle' away and let go, the spring provides enough "oomph"
>>to make the mark.
>> I wish I'd bought one. My one automatic punch has a burr ...
>>works fin as a "punch" but the pointy bit doesn't slide.
>
>Woodcraft sells these with different sized pointy ends for hinges. I
>don't see them on their site but they had them in the store(?).

Seems like a 2-handed device < ? > where a 1-handed version
is more-available .. and, I'd guess - much faster to use ..
Unless I'm missing something ?
I also use an ancient little scratch awl for my centre-pokes <wood>
and a much newer < ~ 50 year old > solid centre punch for sinking
finishing nails or for metal. No moving parts. No complaints.
John T.

hubops@ccanoemail.com on Tue, 16 Aug 2022 16:04:52 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>>>>An automatic punch can get into tight situations where there is no room for a manual punch and the associated hammer swing to drive it. In the end, it's all personal preference and style. Everyone's method is the best if it works for them.
>>>
>>> I have seen, (and sold) some which aren't "automatic" but are two
>>>parts connected by a spring. place the pointy end on the target, pull
>>>the other 'handle' away and let go, the spring provides enough "oomph"
>>>to make the mark.
>>> I wish I'd bought one. My one automatic punch has a burr ...
>>>works fin as a "punch" but the pointy bit doesn't slide.
>>
>>Woodcraft sells these with different sized pointy ends for hinges. I
>>don't see them on their site but they had them in the store(?).
>
>
>Seems like a 2-handed device < ? >

Now that I think about, yes, it is.

> where a 1-handed version is more-available .. and, I'd guess - much faster to use ..
> Unless I'm missing something ?

Nope. Which maybe one of the reasons I didn't get one.

>I also use an ancient little scratch awl for my centre-pokes <wood>
>and a much newer < ~ 50 year old > solid centre punch for sinking
>finishing nails or for metal. No moving parts. No complaints.

No moving parts is good.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 8/15/2022 11:24 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 8:56 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center
>>> punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett.  I should have done
>>> this a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it
>> seems to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's
>> less than a Starrett that does the same thing?
>>
>> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>>
>
> The key problem is probably the "automatic" center punch.   Some are
> spring loaded and I guess they will jump or relocate when pulling back
> on the spring.
The one I have you simply push down, no pulling required. I reckon the
spring could break, or weaken with enough use.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 8/15/2022 9:01 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.
>>>
>>> Bob
>> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
>> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
>> a Starrett that does the same thing?
>>
>> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
>>
>> --
>> Jack
>> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
>
> I saw an article that highlighted the number of designs for automatic center punch at the US Patent office. The variations are an assortment of springs, ball bearings, and odd shaped metal pistons - not quite as uncomplicated as outside appearances.
>
> Every one of mine that failed, just quit releasing the spring energy designed to slam the punch into the target workpiece. There was no obvious wear or misalignment.
>
> Bob
>
Thanks Bob, I reckon you use yours a lot. I've had mine a long time but
it doesn't get all that much use. The tension is adjustable, which I set
on most powerful and forget about it.

I use mine most often on wood in my wood lathe, where I can easily place
a dent for the live center and so on. Works great for that and it has a
permanent location in my lathe bench top. Works fine for punching metal
as well, and the one hand use is what is so handy.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:25:07 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 9:01 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> >> On 8/15/2022 12:12 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> >>> After the failure of the third miscellaneous brand automatic center punch, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett. I should have done this a long time ago.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >> I have an el-cheapo center punch that I mainly use on wood, but it seems
> >> to work fine on metal when I use it. I think I paid about 6x's less than
> >> a Starrett that does the same thing?
> >>
> >> Seems an extremely uncomplicated tool, I'm a little curious what failed?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jack
> >> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
> >
> > I saw an article that highlighted the number of designs for automatic center punch at the US Patent office. The variations are an assortment of springs, ball bearings, and odd shaped metal pistons - not quite as uncomplicated as outside appearances.
> >
> > Every one of mine that failed, just quit releasing the spring energy designed to slam the punch into the target workpiece. There was no obvious wear or misalignment.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> Thanks Bob, I reckon you use yours a lot.

I am a klutz when it comes to lining something up with one hand and striking it with a hammer in the other. The automatic punch requires less coordination (for me).