I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk

and there's this too:

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software

On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>
> and there's this too:
>
> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software

There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.

I won't buy one either. Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
ugly to me. Quality has been an issue too.

On 4/10/2024 9:07 AM, Ed P wrote:
> On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
>> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>>
>> and there's this too:
>>
>> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>
>
> There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
> Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.
>
> I won't buy one either.  Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
> ugly to me.  Quality has been an issue too.
>

Musk probably would not like you guys but would gladly sell you a Tesla.

I like Musk but I'll be damned if I will buy a Tesla or any other
electric car.

On 4/10/2024 10:25 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 4/10/2024 9:07 AM, Ed P wrote:
>> On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
>>> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>>>
>>> and there's this too:
>>>
>>> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>>
>>
>> There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
>> Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.
>>
>> I won't buy one either.  Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
>> ugly to me.  Quality has been an issue too.
>>
>
> Musk probably would not like you guys but would gladly sell you a Tesla.
>
> I like Musk but I'll be damned if I will buy a Tesla or any other
> electric car.
>
>
My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
than 10 minute charge

Think of the EV of today as part of the evolution, like the gas cars of
the 1920s. It will take time to get the charging stations in place,
same as it was for gas stations for our grandparents.

There are infrastructure issues to overcome, people need to adapt to new
technology. Electric grid needs to grow.

If you think these are reasons no to change to EVs, think about the
Wright Brothers. It was really stupid of them to invent the airplane
where there were no airports in existence.

In <6616b0af$0$2909313$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
[snip]

>My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>than 10 minute charge

hahahaha.

the 600 - 800 mile range is a plausible improvement over
what's available today, if some of the lab-shelf stuff
actually pans out. Not exactly likely, but not off
the wall crazy.

But that 10 minute charge? hahahahah

It takes about 1/4 kw-hr for a mile of steady
state driving on level road. So 800 miles of
range would need 200 kw-hr.

(A kw-hr is roughly what a toaster oven would
use in an hour...)

So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.

That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)

[ignoring power factor issues]

or at 240V, 5,000 amps.

That's, umm, some pretty thick wire.

Oh, for good measure, if you have a super
duper unobtanium transformer/regulator/charger
which is 90% efficient, meaning 10% goes
poof as heat, you've got to blow away
about 100 toaster ovens of hot air.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>In <6616b0af$0$2909313$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
>[snip]
>
>>My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>>state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>>than 10 minute charge
>
>hahahaha.
>
>the 600 - 800 mile range is a plausible improvement over
>what's available today, if some of the lab-shelf stuff
>actually pans out. Not exactly likely, but not off
>the wall crazy.
>
>But that 10 minute charge? hahahahah
>
>It takes about 1/4 kw-hr for a mile of steady
>state driving on level road. So 800 miles of
>range would need 200 kw-hr.
>
>(A kw-hr is roughly what a toaster oven would
>use in an hour...)
>
>So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>
>That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>
>[ignoring power factor issues]
>
>or at 240V, 5,000 amps.

Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).

In <GAyRN.231702$zF_1.185250@fx18.iad> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

>>So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>>have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>>
>>That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>>
>>[ignoring power factor issues]
>>
>>or at 240V, 5,000 amps.

>Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
>100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).

So in other words, your local, electrified, cateneray based
commuter railroad can set up charging stations....

(no, that's NOT practical.)
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>In <GAyRN.231702$zF_1.185250@fx18.iad> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>>>So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>>>have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>>>
>>>That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>>>
>>>[ignoring power factor issues]
>>>
>>>or at 240V, 5,000 amps.
>
>>Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
>>100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).
>
>So in other words, your local, electrified, cateneray based
>commuter railroad can set up charging stations....

Most of the local pole pigs have a 12/22kv primary. The
underground distribution lines to the neighborhood
transformer is usually 12kv or 22kv.

It's available pretty much everywhere.

>
>(no, that's NOT practical.)

It's certainly practical for charging stations; it was not
my suggestion that it be available for home use.

Scott Lurndal wrote on 4/10/2024 11:52 AM:
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>> In <6616b0af$0$2909313$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
>> [snip]
>>
>>> My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>>> state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>>> than 10 minute charge
>> hahahaha.
>>
>> the 600 - 800 mile range is a plausible improvement over
>> what's available today, if some of the lab-shelf stuff
>> actually pans out. Not exactly likely, but not off
>> the wall crazy.
>>
>> But that 10 minute charge? hahahahah
>>
>> It takes about 1/4 kw-hr for a mile of steady
>> state driving on level road. So 800 miles of
>> range would need 200 kw-hr.
>>
>> (A kw-hr is roughly what a toaster oven would
>> use in an hour...)
>>
>> So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>> have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>>
>> That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>>
>> [ignoring power factor issues]
>>
>> or at 240V, 5,000 amps.
> Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
> 100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).
>

There is a flaw in your math. Charging a battery is by driving
electrical current through the battery. When you charge a 12V car
battery, you use a voltage slightly higher than 12V in order to drive
the current through the battery. You will be wasting energy if you
rectify a 110V AC source to drive DC through a 12V battery. You will
waste even more energy if you rectify 12.5v/22kv AC to drive DC through
a 12V battery. EV battery is about 350-450V. When you use a transformer
to step down the voltage from 12.5v/22kv, you still end up with
extraordinarily high current to try to charge the battery in such a
short time (if the battery doesn't explode in your face when you plug
the charger in).

On 4/10/2024 11:47 AM, danny burstein wrote:
> In <6616b0af$0$2909313$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
> [snip]
>
>> My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>> state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>> than 10 minute charge
>
> hahahaha.
>
> the 600 - 800 mile range is a plausible improvement over
> what's available today, if some of the lab-shelf stuff
> actually pans out. Not exactly likely, but not off
> the wall crazy.
>
> But that 10 minute charge? hahahahah
>
> It takes about 1/4 kw-hr for a mile of steady
> state driving on level road. So 800 miles of
> range would need 200 kw-hr.
>
> (A kw-hr is roughly what a toaster oven would
> use in an hour...)
>
> So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
> have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>
> That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>
> [ignoring power factor issues]
>
> or at 240V, 5,000 amps.
>
> That's, umm, some pretty thick wire.
>
> Oh, for good measure, if you have a super
> duper unobtanium transformer/regulator/charger
> which is 90% efficient, meaning 10% goes
> poof as heat, you've got to blow away
> about 100 toaster ovens of hot air.

So the people that have done it (Toyota) lied to us?

https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyota-solid-state-ev-battery-plans-750-mi-range/

Toyota confirmed plans to launch solid-state EV batteries with 10-minute
fast charging and up to 750 miles (1,200 km) WLTP range to close the gap
with Tesla. However, with the new EV battery tech still a few years out,
Toyota could fall further behind

On 4/10/24 07:25, Frank wrote:
> On 4/10/2024 9:07 AM, Ed P wrote:
>> On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
>>> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>>>
>>> and there's this too:
>>>
>>> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>>
>>
>> There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
>> Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.
>>
>> I won't buy one either.  Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
>> ugly to me.  Quality has been an issue too.
>>
>
> Musk probably would not like you guys but would gladly sell you a Tesla.
>
> I like Musk but I'll be damned if I will buy a Tesla or any other
> electric car.
>
>

1+

On 4/10/2024 10:37 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>> In <GAyRN.231702$zF_1.185250@fx18.iad> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>>> So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>>>> have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>>>>
>>>> That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>>>>
>>>> [ignoring power factor issues]
>>>>
>>>> or at 240V, 5,000 amps.
>>
>>> Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
>>> 100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).
>>
>> So in other words, your local, electrified, cateneray based
>> commuter railroad can set up charging stations....
>
> Most of the local pole pigs have a 12/22kv primary. The
> underground distribution lines to the neighborhood
> transformer is usually 12kv or 22kv.
>
> It's available pretty much everywhere.

Distribution in Minneapolis is about all 13.8/8kV with 8kV single phase
to residential transformers.

>
>>
>> (no, that's NOT practical.)
>
> It's certainly practical for charging stations; it was not
> my suggestion that it be available for home use.
>

I can't picture how an average consumer could connect 12kV 100A to a car
and how it would be safe. 12kV GFCI?

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 00:21:14 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>
>and there's this too:
>
>https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
I would never deal with the "MuskRat"

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:30:55 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 10:25 AM, Frank wrote:
>> On 4/10/2024 9:07 AM, Ed P wrote:
>>> On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
>>>> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>>>>
>>>> and there's this too:
>>>>
>>>> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>>>
>>>
>>> There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
>>> Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.
>>>
>>> I won't buy one either.  Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
>>> ugly to me.  Quality has been an issue too.
>>>
>>
>> Musk probably would not like you guys but would gladly sell you a Tesla.
>>
>> I like Musk but I'll be damned if I will buy a Tesla or any other
>> electric car.
>>
>>
>My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>than 10 minute charge
>
>Think of the EV of today as part of the evolution, like the gas cars of
>the 1920s. It will take time to get the charging stations in place,
>same as it was for gas stations for our grandparents.
>
>There are infrastructure issues to overcome, people need to adapt to new
>technology. Electric grid needs to grow.
>
>If you think these are reasons no to change to EVs, think about the
>Wright Brothers. It was really stupid of them to invent the airplane
>where there were no airports in existence.

I'm likely the reader on this list with the earliest EV experience -
both building and driving - back in 1979.
Lead acid batteries and rudimentary speed control - 50 mile range at
30MPH and 30 miles at 50 MPH - back then the onboard charger recharged
drom a 15 amp circuit in 8 hours or so for a quarter.

It was a converted 1975 Fiat 128 Sport with an aircraft
starter-generator for a motor

On 4/10/2024 11:16 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:30:55 -0400, Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2024 10:25 AM, Frank wrote:
>>> On 4/10/2024 9:07 AM, Ed P wrote:
>>>> On 4/10/2024 12:21 AM, micky wrote:
>>>>> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>>>>>
>>>>> and there's this too:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There was another article recently about Tesla and the recent decline.
>>>> Dislike of Musk was one reason some people won't buy the car.
>>>>
>>>> I won't buy one either.  Model S looks OK, most of the others look too
>>>> ugly to me.  Quality has been an issue too.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Musk probably would not like you guys but would gladly sell you a Tesla.
>>>
>>> I like Musk but I'll be damned if I will buy a Tesla or any other
>>> electric car.
>>>
>>>
>> My next car will be an electric, but not like the ones today. Solid
>> state batteries (no lithium) will have 600 to 800 mile range and less
>> than 10 minute charge
>>
>> Think of the EV of today as part of the evolution, like the gas cars of
>> the 1920s. It will take time to get the charging stations in place,
>> same as it was for gas stations for our grandparents.
>>
>> There are infrastructure issues to overcome, people need to adapt to new
>> technology. Electric grid needs to grow.
>>
>> If you think these are reasons no to change to EVs, think about the
>> Wright Brothers. It was really stupid of them to invent the airplane
>> where there were no airports in existence.
>
>
> I'm likely the reader on this list with the earliest EV experience -
> both building and driving - back in 1979.
> Lead acid batteries and rudimentary speed control - 50 mile range at
> 30MPH and 30 miles at 50 MPH - back then the onboard charger recharged
> drom a 15 amp circuit in 8 hours or so for a quarter.
>
> It was a converted 1975 Fiat 128 Sport with an aircraft
> starter-generator for a motor

That sounds cool.

If I had two cars, one would be an EV. For my local driving it would
easily go a couple of weeks on a charge. Right now the problem is a
couple of long trips a year that I make.

Oh, I saw a cyber truck today. Did not get a good look as I was behind
it for a couple of miles and could not get a side view. It is a bit
bigger than I thought from photos, but it is just as ugly as I thought
it was.

micky wrote:
> I might have wanted a Tesla but I don't like Elon Musk
>
> and there's this too:
>
> https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2024/04/09/tesla-settles-lawsuit-over-man-s-death-in-a-crash-involving-its-semi-autonomous-driving-software
>

Elon Mush hired a WEF Nazi libtard as CEO of Twixxxer so I would think you would like him.
The whole Twixxxer thing smells like a SeeIA operation to me.

Personally, I don't think I'll be goose-steppin' down to my neighborhood Tesla dealer and buying an EV. Way too fucking expensive!
I'd consider a Ford Escape but Ford can't seem to keep the oil and coolant separate in the ecoboost engines so I'll probably buy another Honda.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 10 Apr 2024 21:57:32 -0600, bud--
<null@void.com> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 10:37 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:
>>> In <GAyRN.231702$zF_1.185250@fx18.iad> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>
>>>>> So if you want 200-kw-hr in 10 minutes, you'd
>>>>> have to feed 1,200 kws through that wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's 1,200 KVA (or similarly, 1,000 toaster ovens)
>>>>>
>>>>> [ignoring power factor issues]
>>>>>
>>>>> or at 240V, 5,000 amps.
>>>
>>>> Or, at the typical distribution voltage of 12.5kv/22kv,
>>>> 100 to 50 amps (1-aught or AWG6).
>>>
>>> So in other words, your local, electrified, cateneray based
>>> commuter railroad can set up charging stations....
>>
>> Most of the local pole pigs have a 12/22kv primary. The
>> underground distribution lines to the neighborhood
>> transformer is usually 12kv or 22kv.
>>
>> It's available pretty much everywhere.
>
>Distribution in Minneapolis is about all 13.8/8kV with 8kV single phase
>to residential transformers.
>
>>
>>>
>>> (no, that's NOT practical.)
>>
>> It's certainly practical for charging stations; it was not
>> my suggestion that it be available for home use.
>>
>
>I can't picture how an average consumer could connect 12kV 100A to a car
>and how it would be safe. 12kV GFCI?

Just use rubber gloves. And maybe a long stick.

If children don't have sense enough to stay clear, it would help evolve
smarter children.