We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
... any useful advice is appreciated.
John T.

On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
> John T.

We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
$140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
oil furnace.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
>> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
>> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
>> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>> John T.
>
>We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
>October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
>$140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
>weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
>believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
>Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
>needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
>oil furnace.
>

Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
require something bigger ?
John T.

On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
> John T.

My house came with the builder installed Trane. My climate is milder
than yours, but it works well and trouble free in just over 5 years.

When switching from one mode to the other, it takes a few minutes for
everything to switch.

My house is 1583 sq ft and the lowest temperature I've ever seen here is
34F but never had to kick in the electric heat. Operating cost is
reasonable too.

In article <4i9e1j5o64o0aobp3i9uuu3fjrr80kepbh@4ax.com>,
hubops@ccanoemail.com says...
>
> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
> require something bigger ?
> John T.
>
>

You would probably need to keep the propane or some other heat source
when the temperature gets below around 25 deg F. The aux heater in my
heat pummp is 10 kw and I am in the middle of North Carolina. I have a
wood stove for backup if the power is out which it seldom is for more
than a day. Where you are it would probably take much more than 10 kw
of aux heat and more than 5 kw to run the heat pump if the aux heat was
not on.
I would run the heat pump for heat to the temp gets below 25 or so deg F
and even compair the electricity rate for the aux vers the propane for
even lower temp.

On 4/10/2024 6:01 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>>> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
>>> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
>>> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
>>> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>>> John T.
>>
>> We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
>> October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
>> $140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
>> weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
>> believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
>> Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
>> needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
>> oil furnace.
>>
>
> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
> require something bigger ?
> John T.
>

Not just aux electric heat. A furnace is a minor load. A heat pump is a
much larger air conditioner. Check if you generator will start and run
what you think about buying.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 22:16:13 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 6:01 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>>>> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
>>>> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
>>>> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
>>>> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>>>> John T.
>>>
>>> We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
>>> October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
>>> $140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
>>> weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
>>> believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
>>> Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
>>> needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
>>> oil furnace.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
>> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
>> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
>> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
>> require something bigger ?
>> John T.
>>
>
>Not just aux electric heat. A furnace is a minor load. A heat pump is a
>much larger air conditioner. Check if you generator will start and run
>what you think about buying.
John has the right idea - Propane when power is out. Not at all
practical to run the heat pump on a generator - or aux electric heat.
If John contacts me off-line I can give him the name of a local guy
who is doing a fair number of heat pumps - a friend of mine

On 4/10/2024 8:01 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>>> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
>>> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
>>> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
>>> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>>> John T.
>>
>> We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
>> October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
>> $140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
>> weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
>> believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
>> Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
>> needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
>> oil furnace.
>>
>
> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
> require something bigger ?
> John T.

It is a problem that my generator cannot handle the heat pump as it did
the oil furnace. We had a two day outage this winter and had it lasted
longer we would have gone to a son's house. Along with fireplace I now
have a couple of propane heaters for backup. We had considered a whole
house generator but without natural gas service wife did not like the
need for a large tank of propane for the generator. Whole house
generator can use 2-4 gal. of propane an hour. My brother has had one
for over a year and has yet to need it yet it costs about $300/yr to
maintain.

We had to get rid of the oil furnace as it was aging and then we found
the oil inlet to the basement tank had rusted through and there was
water in the oil.

In article <uv8ifn$1lrll$1@dont-email.me>, "frank "@frank.net says...
>
> It is a problem that my generator cannot handle the heat pump as it did
> the oil furnace. We had a two day outage this winter and had it lasted
> longer we would have gone to a son's house. Along with fireplace I now
> have a couple of propane heaters for backup. We had considered a whole
> house generator but without natural gas service wife did not like the
> need for a large tank of propane for the generator. Whole house
> generator can use 2-4 gal. of propane an hour. My brother has had one
> for over a year and has yet to need it yet it costs about $300/yr to
> maintain.
>
> We had to get rid of the oil furnace as it was aging and then we found
> the oil inlet to the basement tank had rusted through and there was
> water in the oil.
>
>

It all depends on how much you are willing to pay for the generator
system . For me I can not afford to pay a large amount and our power is
seldom out. I have a 3.5 kw gen that runs on propane or gasoline. I
only run it on propane, but have a 5 kw older generator for the gasoline
and to power for longer periods of time.
With a heatpump I do not want to pay the cost to run it but have a wood
stove in the basement for heat and while i would not use it a fire place
in the main part of the house. If I just had a fire place I would
install a wood stove insert or similar.

So there are two basic ways to go. Small generaor to get by and another
source of heat or large generator with much cost.

For tose with many days below 25 deg F it will probably need a oil or
propane heat for the cold days and the heat pump for the AC and days it
is more efficent to use the heat pump instead of the gas or oil het.

Frank wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 8:01 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>>>>mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall
>>>>heat ; we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for
>>>>winter heating. Any good/bad experiences - brand names
>>>>to avoid ? .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>>>> John T.
>>>
>>>We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat
>>>pump in October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service
>>>cost will be $140. Do not know what weather is like where you
>>>live but we had many weeks of freezing this winter here in
>>>Delaware and it worked fine. I believe if it gets real cold
>>>there is additional electric heating. Electric bills were high
>>>but maybe half the cost of oil we would have needed. My wife is
>>>very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old oil furnace.
>>>
>>
>>Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
>>The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
>>Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
>>I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
>>require something bigger ?
>> John T.
>
>It is a problem that my generator cannot handle the heat pump as it
>did the oil furnace. We had a two day outage this winter and had it
>lasted longer we would have gone to a son's house. Along with
>fireplace I now have a couple of propane heaters for backup. We had
>considered a whole house generator but without natural gas service
>wife did not like the need for a large tank of propane for the
>generator. Whole house generator can use 2-4 gal. of propane an
>hour. My brother has had one for over a year and has yet to need it
>yet it costs about $300/yr to maintain.
>
>We had to get rid of the oil furnace as it was aging and then we
>found the oil inlet to the basement tank had rusted through and there
>was water in the oil.

My mother had a standby generator installed and she lives in Naples,
FL. After the last hurricane which knocked out power for a couple
weeks, the two old people living there wouldn't accept that anymore.
She doesn't have a natural gas pipeline so a propane tank was installed
underground. I think the generator is automatically tested every week
or two so the propane truck has to come by every so often to fill it up.

Don't quote me on this, but I think the total cost for the generator,
propane tank, installation was around $25,000 in affluent Naples
prices. It's likely much less in other areas.

On 4/11/2024 10:03 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <uv8ifn$1lrll$1@dont-email.me>, "frank "@frank.net says...
>>
>> It is a problem that my generator cannot handle the heat pump as it did
>> the oil furnace. We had a two day outage this winter and had it lasted
>> longer we would have gone to a son's house. Along with fireplace I now
>> have a couple of propane heaters for backup. We had considered a whole
>> house generator but without natural gas service wife did not like the
>> need for a large tank of propane for the generator. Whole house
>> generator can use 2-4 gal. of propane an hour. My brother has had one
>> for over a year and has yet to need it yet it costs about $300/yr to
>> maintain.
>>
>> We had to get rid of the oil furnace as it was aging and then we found
>> the oil inlet to the basement tank had rusted through and there was
>> water in the oil.
>>
>>
>
> It all depends on how much you are willing to pay for the generator
> system . For me I can not afford to pay a large amount and our power is
> seldom out. I have a 3.5 kw gen that runs on propane or gasoline. I
> only run it on propane, but have a 5 kw older generator for the gasoline
> and to power for longer periods of time.
> With a heatpump I do not want to pay the cost to run it but have a wood
> stove in the basement for heat and while i would not use it a fire place
> in the main part of the house. If I just had a fire place I would
> install a wood stove insert or similar.
>
> So there are two basic ways to go. Small generaor to get by and another
> source of heat or large generator with much cost.
>
> For tose with many days below 25 deg F it will probably need a oil or
> propane heat for the cold days and the heat pump for the AC and days it
> is more efficent to use the heat pump instead of the gas or oil het.
>

I seldom use the fireplace but have an insert that blows heated air from
the grates. Actually have two fireplaces but closed one off as it had a
sharp bend that could break. We had that problem with the oil furnace
and had to line the chimney. Wife never liked me burning wood.

In article <xn0okfzbmp48y001@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com says...
>
> My mother had a standby generator installed and she lives in Naples,
> FL. After the last hurricane which knocked out power for a couple
> weeks, the two old people living there wouldn't accept that anymore.
> She doesn't have a natural gas pipeline so a propane tank was installed
> underground. I think the generator is automatically tested every week
> or two so the propane truck has to come by every so often to fill it up.
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I think the total cost for the generator,
> propane tank, installation was around $25,000 in affluent Naples
> prices. It's likely much less in other areas.
>
>

I always thought the testing of the propane generators was a big waste
of fuel and money, but if they could afford a $ 25,000 system then money
must not matter too much. I bought a dual fuel 3.5 kw and only ran it on
propane. Ran it for about 15 minutes when I first got it about 4 years
ago to see if it would run. Have only started it 3 times and it started
right up each time. I would probably test that generator a month before
hurricane season.

I guess that at my age and what I have in an IRA I might be tempted to
do the same if I had power problems.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 22:16:13 -0600, bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 6:01 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 19:33:01 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>> We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
>>>> mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
>>>> we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter heating.
>>>> Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
>>>> .. any useful advice is appreciated.
>>>> John T.
>>>
>>> We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump in
>>> October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will be
>>> $140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had many
>>> weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked fine. I
>>> believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric heating.
>>> Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we would have
>>> needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in replacing the old
>>> oil furnace.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
>> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
>> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
>> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
>> require something bigger ?
>> John T.
>>
>
>Not just aux electric heat. A furnace is a minor load. A heat pump is a
>much larger air conditioner. Check if you generator will start and run
>what you think about buying.
>

I hadn't given any thought to running the heat pump from my
portable generator - A/C wouldn't be critical during a summer
power outage. but it does raise a good theoretical question -
if the modern heat pump technologies would possibly allow it ?
< I doubt it though >
John T.

On 4/11/2024 10:51 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <xn0okfzbmp48y001@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
> REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com says...
>>
>> My mother had a standby generator installed and she lives in Naples,
>> FL. After the last hurricane which knocked out power for a couple
>> weeks, the two old people living there wouldn't accept that anymore.
>> She doesn't have a natural gas pipeline so a propane tank was installed
>> underground. I think the generator is automatically tested every week
>> or two so the propane truck has to come by every so often to fill it up.
>>
>> Don't quote me on this, but I think the total cost for the generator,
>> propane tank, installation was around $25,000 in affluent Naples
>> prices. It's likely much less in other areas.
>>
>>
>
> I always thought the testing of the propane generators was a big waste
> of fuel and money, but if they could afford a $ 25,000 system then money
> must not matter too much. I bought a dual fuel 3.5 kw and only ran it on
> propane. Ran it for about 15 minutes when I first got it about 4 years
> ago to see if it would run. Have only started it 3 times and it started
> right up each time. I would probably test that generator a month before
> hurricane season.
>
> I guess that at my age and what I have in an IRA I might be tempted to
> do the same if I had power problems.

I mentioned my brother has one yet to be used but it does test run once
a week and they do get propane refill.

If I lived in Florida I would get one after reading of elderly dying in
nursing homes from the heat in big power outage after hurricane.

On 4/10/2024 10:57 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <4i9e1j5o64o0aobp3i9uuu3fjrr80kepbh@4ax.com>,
> hubops@ccanoemail.com says...
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. I'm in southwestern Ontario.
>> The existing propane furnace can operate from my little
>> Honda 5 kw generator during Jan. - Feb. power outages.
>> I suspect that your heat pump's aux. electric heating would
>> require something bigger ?
>> John T.
>>
>>
>
> You would probably need to keep the propane or some other heat source
> when the temperature gets below around 25 deg F. The aux heater in my
> heat pummp is 10 kw and I am in the middle of North Carolina. I have a
> wood stove for backup if the power is out which it seldom is for more
> than a day. Where you are it would probably take much more than 10 kw
> of aux heat and more than 5 kw to run the heat pump if the aux heat was
> not on.
> I would run the heat pump for heat to the temp gets below 25 or so deg F
> and even compair the electricity rate for the aux vers the propane for
> even lower temp.
>

The newer heat pumps are even more efficient than the older ones. Our
Carrier unit is 6 years old and even so, the auxiliary heater doesn't
kick in even when the outdoor temp is in the high teens. Also, newest
findings (and advice from the HVAC people) is to leave the thermostat at
the same setting 24/7 whether for heat or AC unless away for >18-24 hrs.
The extra electricity used to bring the temp back to the setting you
normally use after returning home apparently obviates any saving you
accrued during a short away time if you raised/lowered the temp for that
short time and apparently puts excessive wear and tear on the system.
Therefore, no need for a programmable thermostat. You'll be comfortable
any time you get up in the AM, or come home after a day out.

Frank wrote:

> On 4/10/2024 7:16 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> > We're considering a heat pump for our 1600 sq. ft. home -
> > mainly for summer air conditioning, with some Spring & Fall heat ;
> > we'll keep the existing propane forced-air furnace for winter
> > heating. Any good/bad experiences - brand names to avoid ?
> > .. any useful advice is appreciated.
> > John T.
>
> We had our old oil furnace and old AC replaced with a Rheem heat pump
> in October. It has a ten year warranty and annual service cost will
> be $140. Do not know what weather is like where you live but we had
> many weeks of freezing this winter here in Delaware and it worked
> fine. I believe if it gets real cold there is additional electric
> heating. Electric bills were high but maybe half the cost of oil we
> would have needed. My wife is very happy with the cleanliness in
> replacing the old oil furnace.

I live in the land of heat pumps. Virginia Beach VA. They are
generally cheaper to run but they are limited. They don't work well
under freeze point (0C/32F), so I'm glad you are pairing it with
existing furnace. They also struggle above 100F but you probably don't
get that much.