I found #pedantle #148 in 8 guesses!
🟩🟩🟩🟧🟧🟧🟧🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥
https://cemantle.certitudes.org/pedantle

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

No. I didn't even know there were two of them, and apparently
there are three.

-- Richard

took me ages - what were your guesses?

"Richard Heathfield" wrote in message news:ti9qvq$12fno$9@dont-email.me...

I found #pedantle #148 in 8 guesses!
🟩🟩🟩🟧🟧🟧🟧🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥
https://cemantle.certitudes.org/pedantle

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 14/10/2022 7:13 am, gerson wrote:
> took me ages - what were your guesses?

Spoiler text:

Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzle.
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzl
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzz
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puz
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle pu
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle p
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantl
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedant
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedan
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Peda
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Ped
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pe
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's P
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday'
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterda
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterd
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yester
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yeste
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to yest
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to yes
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to ye
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to y
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solutio
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the soluti
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solut
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solu
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the sol
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the so
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the s
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told th
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be tol
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to b
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish
Do not scroll down if you do not wish
Do not scroll down if you do not wis
Do not scroll down if you do not wi
Do not scroll down if you do not w
Do not scroll down if you do not
Do not scroll down if you do not
Do not scroll down if you do no
Do not scroll down if you do n
Do not scroll down if you do
Do not scroll down if you do
Do not scroll down if you d
Do not scroll down if you
Do not scroll down if you
Do not scroll down if yo
Do not scroll down if y
Do not scroll down if
Do not scroll down if
Do not scroll down i
Do not scroll down
Do not scroll down
Do not scroll dow
Do not scroll do
Do not scroll d
Do not scroll
Do not scroll
Do not scrol
Do not scro
Do not scr
Do not sc
Do not s
Do not
Do not
Do no
Do n
Do
Do
D

My guesses were:

the
june
1 2
3 ii
johann
strauss

"the" was kind of reflexive, and didn't really help.

(2 7 4 - 1 4 4) had to be a lifespan. There are only two English
month names with four letters - June and July. I chose June out
of sheer chronology.

There are only nine day numbers with one digit. That could have
easily cost me another half-dozen guesses, but didn't.

Quite a few well-known people died on 3 June, but not many whose
names are 6 7 2 (going by the title's three words, not the body
text).

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

"Richard Heathfield" wrote in message news:tib1lt$12fno$10@dont-email.me...

On 14/10/2022 7:13 am, gerson wrote:
> took me ages - what were your guesses?

Spoiler text:

Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzle.
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzzl
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puzz
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle puz
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle pu
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle p
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantle
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedantl
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedant
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pedan
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Peda
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Ped
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's Pe
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's P
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday's
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday'
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterday
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterda
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yesterd
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yester
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
yeste
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to yest
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to yes
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to ye
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to y
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solutio
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the soluti
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solut
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solu
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the sol
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the so
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the s
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told th
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be tol
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to b
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
Do not scroll down if you do not wish t
Do not scroll down if you do not wish
Do not scroll down if you do not wish
Do not scroll down if you do not wis
Do not scroll down if you do not wi
Do not scroll down if you do not w
Do not scroll down if you do not
Do not scroll down if you do not
Do not scroll down if you do no
Do not scroll down if you do n
Do not scroll down if you do
Do not scroll down if you do
Do not scroll down if you d
Do not scroll down if you
Do not scroll down if you
Do not scroll down if yo
Do not scroll down if y
Do not scroll down if
Do not scroll down if
Do not scroll down i
Do not scroll down
Do not scroll down
Do not scroll dow
Do not scroll do
Do not scroll d
Do not scroll
Do not scroll
Do not scrol
Do not scro
Do not scr
Do not sc
Do not s
Do not
Do not
Do no
Do n
Do
Do
D

My guesses were:

the
june
1 2
3 ii
johann
strauss

"the" was kind of reflexive, and didn't really help.

(2 7 4 - 1 4 4) had to be a lifespan. There are only two English
month names with four letters - June and July. I chose June out
of sheer chronology.

There are only nine day numbers with one digit. That could have
easily cost me another half-dozen guesses, but didn't.

Quite a few well-known people died on 3 June, but not many whose
names are 6 7 2 (going by the title's three words, not the body
text).

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

Did have to look anything up for this?

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 17/10/2022 9:37 am, gerson wrote:
>
>
> "Richard Heathfield"  wrote in message
> news:tib1lt$12fno$10@dont-email.me...
> On 14/10/2022 7:13 am, gerson wrote:
>> took me ages - what were your guesses?
>
>
> Spoiler text:
>
>
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle puzzle.
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle puzzle
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle puzzl
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle puzz
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle puz
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle pu
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle p
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantle
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedantl
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedant
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pedan
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Peda
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Ped
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's Pe
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's P
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday's
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday'
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterday
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterda
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yesterd
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yester
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yeste
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> yest
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to yes
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to ye
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to y
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution to
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution t
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solution
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solutio
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the soluti
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solut
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the solu
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the sol
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the so
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the s
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told the
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told th
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told t
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be told
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be tol
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be to
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be t
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to be
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to b
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish to
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish t
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish
> Do not scroll down if you do not wish
> Do not scroll down if you do not wis
> Do not scroll down if you do not wi
> Do not scroll down if you do not w
> Do not scroll down if you do not
> Do not scroll down if you do not
> Do not scroll down if you do no
> Do not scroll down if you do n
> Do not scroll down if you do
> Do not scroll down if you do
> Do not scroll down if you d
> Do not scroll down if you
> Do not scroll down if you
> Do not scroll down if yo
> Do not scroll down if y
> Do not scroll down if
> Do not scroll down if
> Do not scroll down i
> Do not scroll down
> Do not scroll down
> Do not scroll dow
> Do not scroll do
> Do not scroll d
> Do not scroll
> Do not scroll
> Do not scrol
> Do not scro
> Do not scr
> Do not sc
> Do not s
> Do not
> Do not
> Do no
> Do n
> Do
> Do
> D
>
> My guesses were:
>
> the
> june
> 1
> 2
> 3
> ii
> johann
> strauss
>
> "the" was kind of reflexive, and didn't really help.
>
> (2 7 4 - 1 4 4) had to be a lifespan. There are only two English
> month names with four letters - June and July. I chose June out
> of sheer chronology.
>
> There are only nine day numbers with one digit. That could have
> easily cost me another half-dozen guesses, but didn't.
>
> Quite a few well-known people died on 3 June, but not many whose
> names are 6 7 2 (going by the title's three words, not the body
> text).
>
> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
>
> Did have to look anything up for this?

My only consultation was a death list for 3 June.

(For yesterday's (16/10/2022) 8-solution, I didn't look up
anything at all, but I will confess to one fortuitous leap of
logic over rather a wide ditch.)

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 17/10/2022 2:32 pm, leflynn wrote:
> In the example at the start of this thread, it looks like an exhaustive search was initiated to find the day of the month.

It was, yes.

> It appears the Pedantle will show a closer guess to a number than the current guess until it reveals the value when you guess it exactly.

That I hadn't spotted.

> Note that you can check whether it is a one or two digit number.

Yes.

> What is the optimal search strategy to find a single whole number selected randomly from 10 to 30 inclusive?

30? Did you mean 31?

The obvious answer to your question is binary search, but I can't
prove that it's optimal.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 17/10/2022 2:32 pm, leflynn wrote:
> > In the example at the start of this thread, it looks like an exhaustive search was initiated to find the day of the month.
> It was, yes.
> > It appears the Pedantle will show a closer guess to a number than the current guess until it reveals the value when you guess it exactly.
> That I hadn't spotted.
> > Note that you can check whether it is a one or two digit number.
> Yes.
> > What is the optimal search strategy to find a single whole number selected randomly from 10 to 30 inclusive?
> 30? Did you mean 31?
>
> The obvious answer to your question is binary search, but I can't
> prove that it's optimal.
> --
> Richard Heathfield
> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

I took your June (30 days) case.

Since the information is just whether the new guess is closer, not whether the answer is larger or smaller, it is not a simple binary search construction.

For example, after two guesses of say 20 and 25, the intervals I will have to search for the number would be in 10-19 10/21 of the time, 23-30 (not 25) 7/21 of the time, and 21-22 2/21 of the time, and found 2/21 of the time.

L. Flynn

On 17/10/2022 5:49 pm, leflynn wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 17/10/2022 2:32 pm, leflynn wrote:
>>> In the example at the start of this thread, it looks like an exhaustive search was initiated to find the day of the month.
>> It was, yes.
>>> It appears the Pedantle will show a closer guess to a number than the current guess until it reveals the value when you guess it exactly.
>> That I hadn't spotted.
>>> Note that you can check whether it is a one or two digit number.
>> Yes.
>>> What is the optimal search strategy to find a single whole number selected randomly from 10 to 30 inclusive?
>> 30? Did you mean 31?
>>
>> The obvious answer to your question is binary search, but I can't
>> prove that it's optimal.
>> --
> I took your June (30 days) case.

Ah, of course. (Context, Richard!) Okay, 10-30 for the purposes.

>
> Since the information is just whether the new guess is closer, not whether the answer is larger or smaller, it is not a simple binary search construction.
>
> For example, after two guesses of say 20 and 25, the intervals I will have to search for the number would be in 10-19 10/21 of the time, 23-30 (not 25) 7/21 of the time, and 21-22 2/21 of the time, and found 2/21 of the time.

The more I think about this the more I want to know about how the
algorithm chooses. Pseudorandomly? Can it show the actual number
we want (cunning, if it can!).

I don't think one can decide on an optimum strategy until one
nails down the puzzle's behaviour more precisely.

I may be able to gather more data with tonight's puzzle.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 1:33:13 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 17/10/2022 5:49 pm, leflynn wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 17/10/2022 2:32 pm, leflynn wrote:
> >>> In the example at the start of this thread, it looks like an exhaustive search was initiated to find the day of the month.
> >> It was, yes.
> >>> It appears the Pedantle will show a closer guess to a number than the current guess until it reveals the value when you guess it exactly.
> >> That I hadn't spotted.
> >>> Note that you can check whether it is a one or two digit number.
> >> Yes.
> >>> What is the optimal search strategy to find a single whole number selected randomly from 10 to 30 inclusive?
> >> 30? Did you mean 31?
> >>
> >> The obvious answer to your question is binary search, but I can't
> >> prove that it's optimal.
> >> --
> > I took your June (30 days) case.
> Ah, of course. (Context, Richard!) Okay, 10-30 for the purposes.
> >
> > Since the information is just whether the new guess is closer, not whether the answer is larger or smaller, it is not a simple binary search construction.
> >
> > For example, after two guesses of say 20 and 25, the intervals I will have to search for the number would be in 10-19 10/21 of the time, 23-30 (not 25) 7/21 of the time, and 21-22 2/21 of the time, and found 2/21 of the time.
> The more I think about this the more I want to know about how the
> algorithm chooses. Pseudorandomly? Can it show the actual number
> we want (cunning, if it can!).
>
> I don't think one can decide on an optimum strategy until one
> nails down the puzzle's behaviour more precisely.
>
> I may be able to gather more data with tonight's puzzle.
> --
> Richard Heathfield
> Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

OK. I made some number guesses in pedantle and thought I would formulate a problem with specified behavior for the responses. These "rules" are not exactly how pedantle works.

Search Problem:
You are given a hidden whole number between 10 and 30 inclusive. You can make a sequence of guesses of whole numbers between 1 and 40 using the results for the earlier guesses to guide the next one.

The first number you guess will either appear in red meaning that it is the closest guess so far in absolute difference from the hidden number, or it will reveal the hidden number if you guessed it correctly.

The second number (and later numbers) you guess will either replace the red number meaning that it is closer to the hidden number (ties go to the earlier guess), leave the earlier guess in red, or it will reveal the hidden number if you guessed it correctly.

The puzzle is to describe a search strategy to efficiently find the hidden number.
(Twenty-one people, each with a different hidden number, will independently use your strategy to find their numbers. The score for you strategy is the total number of guesses they will need to find the numbers.)

You may want to start with a smaller range, say 10 to 20, to develop and test approaches.

L. Flynn

In article <cd9a69e7-a9a9-4ab1-bf4c-226f4b78b25en@googlegroups.com>,
leflynn <leflynn@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The second number (and later numbers) you guess will either replace the
>red number meaning that it is closer to the hidden number (ties go to
>the earlier guess), leave the earlier guess in red, or it will reveal
>the hidden number if you guessed it correctly.
>
>The puzzle is to describe a search strategy to efficiently find the
>hidden number.

Ignoring the case where you hit on the right number, you will only
gain one bit of information from each try, so it's going to take
around log2(N) tries.

So a binary-search type strategy will work: choose one end for the
first guess (which doesn't give you any information), try
then try the other end. You will now know which half it's in,
either 1-15 or 16-30. Continue the process, always trying the
end of the known range that you haven't done before.

-- Richard

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 6:30:03 AM UTC-4, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <cd9a69e7-a9a9-4ab1...@googlegroups.com>,
> leflynn <lef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The second number (and later numbers) you guess will either replace the
> >red number meaning that it is closer to the hidden number (ties go to
> >the earlier guess), leave the earlier guess in red, or it will reveal
> >the hidden number if you guessed it correctly.
> >
> >The puzzle is to describe a search strategy to efficiently find the
> >hidden number.
> Ignoring the case where you hit on the right number, you will only
> gain one bit of information from each try, so it's going to take
> around log2(N) tries.
>
> So a binary-search type strategy will work: choose one end for the
> first guess (which doesn't give you any information), try
> then try the other end. You will now know which half it's in,
> either 1-15 or 16-30. Continue the process, always trying the
> end of the known range that you haven't done before.
>
> -- Richard
As you and Richard both noted, binary is as good as it gets.
For some some reason, I kept trying to find a way to make a new choice give three sets, as opposed to the two it can, namely numbers that are nearer to it than to the current best guess or number that are not.
L. Flynn