On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:11:22 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>On 18/9/2023 11:20 pm, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>> On 9/18/2023 5:04 AM, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 18/9/2023 1:27 pm, micky wrote:
>>>> I saw today what I think was a Subaru BRZ.  Very pretty car (for a
>>>> sedan) but what made it unusual were the wheels.  All 4 were splayed.
>>>> Isn't that the word when the bottoms of the wheels are farther from
>>>> center than the tops.   I'm not talking about camber or caster or what
>>>> ever.  These wheels looked like the whole ccar had been dropped 20 feet
>>>> and some of the parts holding the wheels in place had broken.
>>>>
>>>> The driver said they were supposed to be like this, but the pictures
>>>> I've found on line have wheels like all the other cars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a joint development with Toyota that calls it the 86 when they
>>>> sell/sold it.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, it is camber, negative camber.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=car+with+splayed+wheels
>>>>
>>>> Still this one was so extreme, and all 4 wheels.

Not to mention the rims are about half again as wide as the tire size
would dictate.
>>>
>>> Yep, extreme negative camber and, in terms of handling, it's all
>>> negative - no benefit.
>>
>>
>> You are just like the British simpleton "Commander Kinsey" with no
>> knowledge in Physics (or anything else).
>>
>> All Formula One race cars have negative camber on all four tires.
>
>Approx. 3 degrees negative at the front and between 0 and 1 degrees
>negative at the rear. You won't visually see 1 degree of negative
>camber. The front suspension changes in load under cornering will
>increase or decrease camber by up to 5 degrees, the unloaded inner wheel
>typically losing camber and becoming vertical whilst the outer wheel
>will increase negative camber under cornering forces. The increase in
>cornering forces places pressure on tyre sidewalls so that the tread
>sits *flat* on the road. At the rear, traction is more important so less
>negative camber is the order of the day. As well, rear tyres are
>typically wider so too much negative camber will cause a *loss* in the
>tyre contact area because the tyre will be running on and contacting on
>only one side of the tread.
>>
>> The centrifugal force created when a race car is cornering will try to
>> flip the race car over. The centrifugal force acts on the centre of
>> gravity of the race car, through the point at the centre of the tyres on
>> the inner side of the turn, and the angle of the line connecting the
>> centre of the tyres to the point of contact with the road surface.
>
>Sounds impressive but irrelevant to the negative camber. Oh, and there's
>no such an animal as centrifugal force. It's just a convenient fiction
>to explain *forces* to numbnuts like yourself.
>>
>> For normal cars with zero camber, the centre of the tyres are vertically
>> (90 degrees) above the road surface. If you can move that point of road
>> contact point farther out, that will make it more difficult for the
>> centrifugal force to flip the race car.
>
>Please try to understand the effect a lateral arm suspension has on
>camber under cornering.
>>
>> For simple minded Brits, just imagine when someone pushes you from the
>> side when you are standing at attention (both legs closed). It won't
>> take much to push you over. Now imagine someone pushes you from the side
>> when you are standing with your legs four feet apart. That will be very
>> difficult to push you over from the side.
>>
>Again, sounds impressive but irrelevant when referencing negative
>camber. What you should be focused on is the vehicle's roll centre
>versus G of G.
>>
>>> Stancing of that order is all about the look.
>>
>> You have a simple mind.
>>
>>> Personally, to me it looks utterly ridiculous. The look of a wanker!
>>>
>>
>> You are the utterly stupid wanker!
>
>https://static1.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Stanced-Lexus-GS300-Cropped.jpg
>
>Now tell me that the car in the above link looks anything but
>ridiculous? Sitting only on 50% or less of the tyre contact area and of
>such a profile that, even with sidewall distortion, there's no hope of
>ever getting 100% contact patch engagement so handling is *compromised*
>at best and downright dangerous at worst.
>>
>>> Modern wide low profile radial tyres work best when camber is close to
>>> zero. IOW, keep all of the tread flat on the road. Minimises tyre wear
>>> too.
>>>
>>
>> That's not good for racing, simpleton.
>
>Then you clearly do not understand racing. The important factor in any
>sort of car handling is tyre contact area and tyre slip angles. When you
>understand those two factors, come back and discuss it further. Thus far
>all you've been doing is throwing irrelevant bullshit into the mix.
>Basically, that tells me you do not have a clue about vehicle handling
>be it in racing or road use.
>
>FWIW, I've done more car wheel alignments than you've had hot dinners.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 04:58:17 +0100, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> Not to mention the rims are about half again as wide as the tire size
> would dictate.

I tire of your spelling errors.