My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income. So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.

Here's the (long) story. It's a small unit that serves only a small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got wet and fell. Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic one. And the unit hasn't come on since.

So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they just left a wire off. I can at least take a look.

Here's what I saw: nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires. One wire goes to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the cooling section.

So here are my questions:
1. If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or plugged first. Should that trip the unit? It didn't, obviously.

I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to. The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit does have a condensate drain I could find. I don't have equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)

2. The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take meter readings; if so what should I look for?

3. What am I missing? This needs to go to a real mechanic soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.

On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income. So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>
> Here's the (long) story. It's a small unit that serves only a small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got wet and fell. Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic one. And the unit hasn't come on since.

I am guessing here. The original metal pan rusted, that means the
original metal pan was not stainless steel. Since the replacement pan is
plastic instead of ferrous metal and the air conditioner wouldn't come
on, there is a good chance the air conditioner was designed to detect
the presence of the original ferrous metal pan with a magnet. Try to use
a similar ferrous metal pan to see if the air conditioner will come on.
If you cannot find a similar ferrous metal pan, then try to locate the
air conditioner's magnet by feeling around with a screw driver or some
ferrous metal inside the cavity where the metal pan would push against
the walls. If you can find the magnet, then you can glue a piece of
scrap metal there, like the lid of a sardine can, to fool the air
conditioner to think that the original ferrous metal pan is there.

> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they just left a wire off. I can at least take a look.
>
> Here's what I saw: nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires. One wire goes to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the cooling section.
>
> So here are my questions:
> 1. If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or plugged first. Should that trip the unit? It didn't, obviously.
>
> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to. The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit does have a condensate drain I could find. I don't have equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>
> 2. The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take meter readings; if so what should I look for?
>
> 3. What am I missing? This needs to go to a real mechanic soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 6:02:15 PM UTC-4, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
> > My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income. So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
> >
> > Here's the (long) story. It's a small unit that serves only a small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got wet and fell. Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic one. And the unit hasn't come on since.
> I am guessing here. The original metal pan rusted, that means the
> original metal pan was not stainless steel. Since the replacement pan is
> plastic instead of ferrous metal and the air conditioner wouldn't come
> on, there is a good chance the air conditioner was designed to detect
> the presence of the original ferrous metal pan with a magnet. Try to use
> a similar ferrous metal pan to see if the air conditioner will come on.
> If you cannot find a similar ferrous metal pan, then try to locate the
> air conditioner's magnet by feeling around with a screw driver or some
> ferrous metal inside the cavity where the metal pan would push against
> the walls. If you can find the magnet, then you can glue a piece of
> scrap metal there, like the lid of a sardine can, to fool the air
> conditioner to think that the original ferrous metal pan is there.

You don't understand, or I haven't explained clearly.

The plastic pan is an overflow. It is completely underneath a sealed coil unit, not in contact with it. There should be an internal pan inside under the coils that catches the condensate. Nobody would have the actual condensate pan open to the air, dust, critters, etc.

And there are two PVC condensate drain pipes, one from the coil unit, and one from the overflow pan. But when the overflow pan rusted the ceiling below was damaged. So, either we had a simultaneous clogged internal pan and a failed overflow pan, or - and come to think of it probably more likely - the internal pan failed or clogged years ago. Because of laziness, frugality, really bad access in this cramped attic space, who knows - they just removed a plug and let the internal pan flow into the external overflow pan. Huh, I wonder if that tube goes to the soffit - I didn't think to look there.

I have never heard of a magnetic switch like you describe. I have seen many cases where the pan fills and a float switch is tripped.

On 4/21/2023 6:18 PM, TimR wrote:
> On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 6:02:15 PM UTC-4, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income. So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>>>
>>> Here's the (long) story. It's a small unit that serves only a small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got wet and fell. Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic one. And the unit hasn't come on since.
>> I am guessing here. The original metal pan rusted, that means the
>> original metal pan was not stainless steel. Since the replacement pan is
>> plastic instead of ferrous metal and the air conditioner wouldn't come
>> on, there is a good chance the air conditioner was designed to detect
>> the presence of the original ferrous metal pan with a magnet. Try to use
>> a similar ferrous metal pan to see if the air conditioner will come on.
>> If you cannot find a similar ferrous metal pan, then try to locate the
>> air conditioner's magnet by feeling around with a screw driver or some
>> ferrous metal inside the cavity where the metal pan would push against
>> the walls. If you can find the magnet, then you can glue a piece of
>> scrap metal there, like the lid of a sardine can, to fool the air
>> conditioner to think that the original ferrous metal pan is there.
> You don't understand, or I haven't explained clearly.
>
> The plastic pan is an overflow. It is completely underneath a sealed coil unit, not in contact with it. There should be an internal pan inside under the coils that catches the condensate. Nobody would have the actual condensate pan open to the air, dust, critters, etc.
>
> And there are two PVC condensate drain pipes, one from the coil unit, and one from the overflow pan. But when the overflow pan rusted the ceiling below was damaged. So, either we had a simultaneous clogged internal pan and a failed overflow pan, or - and come to think of it probably more likely - the internal pan failed or clogged years ago. Because of laziness, frugality, really bad access in this cramped attic space, who knows - they just removed a plug and let the internal pan flow into the external overflow pan. Huh, I wonder if that tube goes to the soffit - I didn't think to look there.
>
> I have never heard of a magnetic switch like you describe. I have seen many cases where the pan fills and a float switch is tripped.
>

I have two different makes of portable dehumidifier with float to detect
water level in the tray, and the mechanism detecting the float reaching
the top is a magnetic switch inside the unit. The float itself is
plastic with a tiny embedded magnet. I guess a magnetic switch is more
sensitive than a mechanical switch.

On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income. So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>
> Here's the (long) story. It's a small unit that serves only a small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got wet and fell. Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic one. And the unit hasn't come on since.
>
> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they just left a wire off. I can at least take a look.
>
> Here's what I saw: nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires. One wire goes to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the cooling section.
>
> So here are my questions:
> 1. If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or plugged first. Should that trip the unit? It didn't, obviously.
>
> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to. The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit does have a condensate drain I could find. I don't have equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>
> 2. The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take meter readings; if so what should I look for?
>
> 3. What am I missing? This needs to go to a real mechanic soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.

I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker in the
power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing too much
current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check if that air
conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the power plug too.

On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.  I'm not
>> a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's
>> something simple.  The friend has very little income.  So I spent the
>> afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out.  I
>> weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.

With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and you will
fit better.

>>
>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a small
>> upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil.  According to them, it
>> was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got
>> wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger plastic
>> one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>
>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they just
>> left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>
>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe
>> glued in, leading across the attic to unknown.  Another PVC pipe
>> coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and
>> again across the attic to unknown.  Can't really get up on that side,
>> I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the
>> unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes to a two conductor wire that
>> roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown.  Thermostat is set to
>> Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening.  Thermostat wires connect
>> to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to
>> connect over to the cooling section.
>>
>> So here are my questions:
>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or
>> plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't, obviously.
>>
>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.  The
>> house has a crawl space, no basement.   The downstairs unit does have
>> a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have equipment to blow out
>> condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro.  But it seems
>> that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in condensate lines
>> without a way to unclog them?)
>>
>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at the
>> hand hole, the easy part of this to access.  I can take meter
>> readings; if so what should I look for?
>>
>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic soon, but
>> I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.

Have you got power at the unit?
Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
is there a breaker turned off?

I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have worked on.

A common thermostat wiring code is
Red - 24VAC power to tstat
Green - to fan relay
White - runs heat
Yellow - runs AC
5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for electronic
tstat

With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
red to green connection runs fan
red to white connection runs heat
red to yellow runs AC

If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
you can check this at the tstat terminals

I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").

There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.

Whoever installed the pan may have liability.

>
>
> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker in the
> power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing too much
> current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check if that air
> conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the power plug too.
>

Attic unit will be hard-wired.

Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI

You need a float switch on a portable dehumidifier because it collects
water. The attic unit shouldn't collect water.

On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.  I'm
>>> not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's
>>> something simple.  The friend has very little income.  So I spent
>>> the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out. 
>>> I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>
> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and you
> will fit better.
>
>>>
>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a small
>>> upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil.  According to them, it
>>> was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got
>>> wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger
>>> plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>
>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they
>>> just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>
>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe
>>> glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC pipe
>>> coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and
>>> again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up on that side,
>>> I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the
>>> unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes to a two conductor wire that
>>> roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown.  Thermostat is set to
>>> Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening.  Thermostat wires connect
>>> to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to
>>> connect over to the cooling section.
>>>
>>> So here are my questions:
>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or
>>> plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't, obviously.
>>>
>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.  The
>>> house has a crawl space, no basement.   The downstairs unit does
>>> have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have equipment to
>>> blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro. 
>>> But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in
>>> condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>
>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at
>>> the hand hole, the easy part of this to access.  I can take meter
>>> readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>
>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic soon,
>>> but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>
> Have you got power at the unit?
> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
>    is there a breaker turned off?
>
> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
> worked on.
>
> A common thermostat wiring code is
> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
> Green - to fan relay
> White - runs heat
> Yellow - runs AC
> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
> electronic tstat
>
> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
> red to green connection runs fan
> red to white connection runs heat
> red to yellow runs AC
>
> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>
> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>
> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>
> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>
>>
>>
>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker in
>> the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing too
>> much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check if
>> that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the power
>> plug too.
>>
>
> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>
> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>

They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the power
plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power plug of my
air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with circuit breaker
sold on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2

> You need a float switch on a portable dehumidifier because it collects
> water. The attic unit shouldn't collect water.
>
>
>

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 11:04:15 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:
> Have you got power at the unit?
> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
> is there a breaker turned off?
>
> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have worked on.
>
> A common thermostat wiring code is
> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
> Green - to fan relay
> White - runs heat
> Yellow - runs AC
> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for electronic
> tstat
>
> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
> red to green connection runs fan
> red to white connection runs heat
> red to yellow runs AC
>
> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
> you can check this at the tstat terminals
>
> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>
> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>
> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.

Thanks. That helps me think through this.

I'll go back and check voltages. It didn't occur to me that the mystery wire went to the outside unit. Doh! That would have been a tech's first thought I imagine.
It also makes sense that the condensate drains I couldn't find are probably in the soffit where that wire comes out, so should be easy to find - maybe very hard to clear if clogged.

I did check the breaker - been there done that too many times. But power to the unit? A little hard to check, but I will see if hot to thermostat has 24 volts. Thermostat is on showing temperature but it could have a battery.

If there is no wiring to the evaporator coil, then my idea of a safety interlock is clearly mistaken.

To recap simpler: Cooling was running, ceiling fell, occupant had leaking overflow pan replaced but unit was not opened, unit would not restart.

She also mentioned to me that the downstairs unit, a heat pump, cooled fine but heat did not work so they use space heaters. Sigh. Not going to touch that one. Both thermostats were replaced at the same time, sometime in the past.

On 4/22/2023 6:43 AM, TimR wrote:
> On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 11:04:15 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:
>> Have you got power at the unit?
>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
>> is there a breaker turned off?
>>
>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have worked on.
>>
>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>> Green - to fan relay
>> White - runs heat
>> Yellow - runs AC
>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for electronic
>> tstat
>>
>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>> red to green connection runs fan
>> red to white connection runs heat
>> red to yellow runs AC
>>
>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>> you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>
>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>
>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>
>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>
> Thanks. That helps me think through this.
>
> I'll go back and check voltages. It didn't occur to me that the mystery wire went to the outside unit. Doh! That would have been a tech's first thought I imagine.
> It also makes sense that the condensate drains I couldn't find are probably in the soffit where that wire comes out, so should be easy to find - maybe very hard to clear if clogged.

For purposes of what you are doing, if the pans are not wet it shouldn't
make any difference if the drains are clogged.

(Not mentioned - there should be 2 refrigerant lines from the
compressor/condenser, one much smaller than the other.)

>
> I did check the breaker - been there done that too many times. But power to the unit? A little hard to check, but I will see if hot to thermostat has 24 volts. Thermostat is on showing temperature but it could have a battery.

Could be battery or could be 24V from red to 5th wire (blue?).

>
> If there is no wiring to the evaporator coil, then my idea of a safety interlock is clearly mistaken.

If it had a limit it probably wouldn't shut down the fan or heat.

Air conditioning could have low pressure limit. If refrigerant leaked it
would shut down air, but not fan.

There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.

On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.  I'm
>>>> not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's
>>>> something simple.  The friend has very little income.  So I spent
>>>> the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it out.
>>>> I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>>
>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and you
>> will fit better.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a small
>>>> upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil.  According to them, it
>>>> was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the ceiling got
>>>> wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a slightly larger
>>>> plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>
>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they
>>>> just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC pipe
>>>> glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC pipe
>>>> coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short trap, and
>>>> again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up on that side,
>>>> I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about 4 feet below the
>>>> unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes to a two conductor wire that
>>>> roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown.  Thermostat is set to
>>>> Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening.  Thermostat wires connect
>>>> to the main part of the unit with the fan and heat, no wires seem to
>>>> connect over to the cooling section.
>>>>
>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed or
>>>> plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't, obviously.
>>>>
>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.  The
>>>> house has a crawl space, no basement.   The downstairs unit does
>>>> have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have equipment to
>>>> blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro. But
>>>> it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in condensate
>>>> lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>
>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at
>>>> the hand hole, the easy part of this to access.  I can take meter
>>>> readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>
>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic soon,
>>>> but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>
>> Have you got power at the unit?
>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>
>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>> worked on.
>>
>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>> Green - to fan relay
>> White - runs heat
>> Yellow - runs AC
>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>> electronic tstat
>>
>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>> red to green connection runs fan
>> red to white connection runs heat
>> red to yellow runs AC
>>
>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>
>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>
>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>
>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker in
>>> the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing too
>>> much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check if
>>> that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the power
>>> plug too.
>>>
>>
>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>
>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>
>
>
> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the power
> plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power plug of my
> air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with circuit breaker
> sold on Amazon:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>

Amazon:
"GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"

Pool pumps require a GFCI

Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.

"Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
circuit.

Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.

Does not say it is for window air conditioners.

My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on those
plugs.

A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for. Specs
or manual would.

(Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
"auto-reset".)

On 4/22/2023 10:42 AM, bud-- wrote:
> On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.  I'm
>>>>> not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's
>>>>> something simple. The friend has very little income.  So I spent
>>>>> the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it
>>>>> out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>>>
>>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and you
>>> will fit better.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a
>>>>> small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to
>>>>> them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the
>>>>> ceiling got wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a
>>>>> slightly larger plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they
>>>>> just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC
>>>>> pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC
>>>>> pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short
>>>>> trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up
>>>>> on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about
>>>>> 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes to a two
>>>>> conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown. 
>>>>> Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening. 
>>>>> Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit with the fan
>>>>> and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the cooling section.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed
>>>>> or plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't, obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to. 
>>>>> The house has a crawl space, no basement.   The downstairs unit
>>>>> does have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have equipment
>>>>> to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a
>>>>> pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in
>>>>> condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at
>>>>> the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take meter
>>>>> readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic soon,
>>>>> but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>>
>>> Have you got power at the unit?
>>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
>>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>>
>>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>>> worked on.
>>>
>>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>>> Green - to fan relay
>>> White - runs heat
>>> Yellow - runs AC
>>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>>> electronic tstat
>>>
>>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>> red to green connection runs fan
>>> red to white connection runs heat
>>> red to yellow runs AC
>>>
>>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>>
>>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>>
>>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>>
>>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker
>>>> in the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing
>>>> too much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check
>>>> if that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the
>>>> power plug too.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>>
>>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>>
>>
>>
>> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the power
>> plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power plug of
>> my air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with circuit
>> breaker sold on Amazon:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>>
>
> Amazon:
> "GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
> Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"
>
> Pool pumps require a GFCI
>
> Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.
>
> "Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
> circuit.
>
> Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.
>
> Does not say it is for window air conditioners.
>
> My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on
> those plugs.
>
> A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for.
> Specs or manual would.
>
> (Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
> "auto-reset".)
>

I have searched high and low, and finally found a photo of the
replacement part of the power cord to my Danby Portable Air Conditioner
(model DPAC10011)

https://www.danbyapplianceparts.ca/product/power-supply-cord-complete-7/

You can see two buttons (large and small) on the back of the power plug
by point your mouse at the picture to zoom in.

The only time the circuit breaker had tripped (rarely) was when the
compressor motor was trying to restart (restarting too quickly in hot
weather without relaxing enough pressure). The outer housing of the
portable air condition is completely plastic. There is no reason to have
a circuit breaker built into the power plug other than to prevent
overheating the entire electrical wiring all the way to the electrical
main due to compressor hard start.

This is the portable air conditioner:

https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/

On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 9:38:12 AM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:
>
> There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
> ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.

Yup. There was no voltage on the hot pin at the thermostat. Thermostat had a couple AAA batteries so it still lit up.

Power wiring did go into an ordinary wall switch. Turned it on, everything came back on. Either the pan guy turned it off, or bumped it by accident; pretty tight quarters up there, and working through a small access hole.

As always, better to be lucky than smart.

On 4/22/2023 8:51 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/22/2023 10:42 AM, bud-- wrote:
>> On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.  I'm
>>>>>> not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot, maybe it's
>>>>>> something simple. The friend has very little income.  So I spent
>>>>>> the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without figuring it
>>>>>> out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have got up there.
>>>>
>>>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and you
>>>> will fit better.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a
>>>>>> small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to
>>>>>> them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the
>>>>>> ceiling got wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a
>>>>>> slightly larger plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe they
>>>>>> just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC
>>>>>> pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC
>>>>>> pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short
>>>>>> trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up
>>>>>> on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is about
>>>>>> 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes to a two
>>>>>> conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to unknown.
>>>>>> Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is happening.
>>>>>> Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit with the fan
>>>>>> and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the cooling section.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have failed
>>>>>> or plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't, obviously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to. The
>>>>>> house has a crawl space, no basement.   The downstairs unit does
>>>>>> have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have equipment to
>>>>>> blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going to need a pro.
>>>>>> But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit. (Who puts in
>>>>>> condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right at
>>>>>> the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take meter
>>>>>> readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic soon,
>>>>>> but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>>>
>>>> Have you got power at the unit?
>>>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned on?
>>>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>>>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>>>> worked on.
>>>>
>>>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>>>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>>>> Green - to fan relay
>>>> White - runs heat
>>>> Yellow - runs AC
>>>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>>>> electronic tstat
>>>>
>>>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>> red to green connection runs fan
>>>> red to white connection runs heat
>>>> red to yellow runs AC
>>>>
>>>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>>>
>>>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>>>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>>>
>>>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>>>
>>>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker
>>>>> in the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing
>>>>> too much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can check
>>>>> if that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built into the
>>>>> power plug too.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>>>
>>>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the power
>>> plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power plug of
>>> my air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with circuit
>>> breaker sold on Amazon:
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>>>
>>
>> Amazon:
>> "GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
>> Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"
>>
>> Pool pumps require a GFCI
>>
>> Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.
>>
>> "Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
>> circuit.
>>
>> Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.
>>
>> Does not say it is for window air conditioners.
>>
>> My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on
>> those plugs.
>>
>> A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for.
>> Specs or manual would.
>>
>> (Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
>> "auto-reset".)
>
>
> I have searched high and low, and finally found a photo of the
> replacement part of the power cord to my Danby Portable Air Conditioner
> (model DPAC10011)
>
> https://www.danbyapplianceparts.ca/product/power-supply-cord-complete-7/
>
> You can see two buttons (large and small) on the back of the power plug
> by point your mouse at the picture to zoom in.

I see lots of power cords, but none with 2 buttons.

GFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons. Your Amazon plug is GFCI.
AFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons.
Circuit breaker plugs - I have never seen one.

But you just assume it is a circuit breaker. The picture establishes
nothing. I see no reason to believe it is a circuit breaker.

>
> The only time the circuit breaker had tripped (rarely) was when the
> compressor motor was trying to restart (restarting too quickly in hot
> weather without relaxing enough pressure). The outer housing of the
> portable air condition is completely plastic. There is no reason to have
> a circuit breaker built into the power plug other than to prevent
> overheating the entire electrical wiring all the way to the electrical
> main due to compressor hard start.

Don't know where you live, but everywhere I have been circuits are fed
by circuit breakers or fuses that open on overload or short. I think
that is what they are for. Plastic is relevant?

>
> This is the portable air conditioner:
>
> https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/

Says nothing about any kind of protection in the plug.

It does have:
"What are the standard watts and amps used?"
"Information pertaining to watts and camps [Canadian amps?] can be found
on the rating plated [metal lettering is plated onto the plastic side?]
located on the side of the unit."

On 4/22/2023 10:51 PM, bud-- wrote:
>
> I see no reason to think the plug has a circuit breaker.
> Lots of reasons to think it is an AFCI. My AC has an AFCI plug. I think
> they all (in the US) do now.
>

"NEC 440.65 Protection Devices
Single-phase cord and plug connected room air conditioners shall be
protected with one of the following factory installed devices:
(1) Leakage-current-detector-interrupter (LCDI)
(2) Arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI)
(3) Heat detecting circuit interrupter (HDCI)
The protection device shall be an integral part of the attachment plug
or be located in the power supply cord within (12 in.) of the attachment
plug."

(1) and (2) were required in the 2002 NEC
(3) was added in the 2017 NEC

On 4/23/2023 12:51 AM, bud-- wrote:
> On 4/22/2023 8:51 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/22/2023 10:42 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. 
>>>>>>> I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot,
>>>>>>> maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income.
>>>>>>> So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without
>>>>>>> figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have
>>>>>>> got up there.
>>>>>
>>>>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and
>>>>> you will fit better.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a
>>>>>>> small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to
>>>>>>> them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the
>>>>>>> ceiling got wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a
>>>>>>> slightly larger plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe
>>>>>>> they just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC
>>>>>>> pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC
>>>>>>> pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short
>>>>>>> trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up
>>>>>>> on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is
>>>>>>> about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes
>>>>>>> to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to
>>>>>>> unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is
>>>>>>> happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit
>>>>>>> with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the
>>>>>>> cooling section.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have
>>>>>>> failed or plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't,
>>>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.
>>>>>>> The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit
>>>>>>> does have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have
>>>>>>> equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going
>>>>>>> to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit.
>>>>>>> (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right
>>>>>>> at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take
>>>>>>> meter readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic
>>>>>>> soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you got power at the unit?
>>>>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned
>>>>> on?
>>>>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>>>>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>>>>> worked on.
>>>>>
>>>>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>>>>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>>>>> Green - to fan relay
>>>>> White - runs heat
>>>>> Yellow - runs AC
>>>>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>>>>> electronic tstat
>>>>>
>>>>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>> red to green connection runs fan
>>>>> red to white connection runs heat
>>>>> red to yellow runs AC
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>>>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>>>>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>>>>
>>>>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker
>>>>>> in the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing
>>>>>> too much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can
>>>>>> check if that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built
>>>>>> into the power plug too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>>>>
>>>>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the
>>>> power plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power
>>>> plug of my air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with
>>>> circuit breaker sold on Amazon:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>>>>
>>>
>>> Amazon:
>>> "GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
>>> Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"
>>>
>>> Pool pumps require a GFCI
>>>
>>> Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.
>>>
>>> "Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
>>> circuit.
>>>
>>> Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.
>>>
>>> Does not say it is for window air conditioners.
>>>
>>> My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on
>>> those plugs.
>>>
>>> A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for.
>>> Specs or manual would.
>>>
>>> (Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
>>> "auto-reset".)
>>
>>
>> I have searched high and low, and finally found a photo of the
>> replacement part of the power cord to my Danby Portable Air
>> Conditioner (model DPAC10011)
>>
>> https://www.danbyapplianceparts.ca/product/power-supply-cord-complete-7/
>>
>> You can see two buttons (large and small) on the back of the power
>> plug by point your mouse at the picture to zoom in.
>
> I see lots of power cords, but none with 2 buttons.
>
> GFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons. Your Amazon plug is GFCI.
> AFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons.
> Circuit breaker plugs - I have never seen one.
>
> But you just assume it is a circuit breaker. The picture establishes
> nothing. I see no reason to believe it is a circuit breaker.
>
>>
>> The only time the circuit breaker had tripped (rarely) was when the
>> compressor motor was trying to restart (restarting too quickly in hot
>> weather without relaxing enough pressure). The outer housing of the
>> portable air condition is completely plastic. There is no reason to
>> have a circuit breaker built into the power plug other than to
>> prevent overheating the entire electrical wiring all the way to the
>> electrical main due to compressor hard start.
>
> Don't know where you live, but everywhere I have been circuits are fed
> by circuit breakers or fuses that open on overload or short. I think
> that is what they are for.  Plastic is relevant?
>
>>
>> This is the portable air conditioner:
>>
>> https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/
>
> Says nothing about any kind of protection in the plug.
>
> It does have:
> "What are the standard watts and amps used?"
> "Information pertaining to watts and camps [Canadian amps?] can be
> found on the rating plated [metal lettering is plated onto the plastic
> side?] located on the side of the unit."
>
> All you have to do the get the amp/watt rating is to buy one of them.
>
> A manual is available at:
> <https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/?o=pfd>
>
> It also says nothing about the plug and gives no amp/watt ratings.
> This unit does have some amazing specs though:
> Width     0"
> Unit       0.00 kg
> Shipping     0.00 kg
>
> I see no reason to think the plug has a circuit breaker.
> Lots of reasons to think it is an AFCI. My AC has an AFCI plug. I
> think they all (in the US) do now.
>
>

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Apr 2023 01:33:49 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
? <@.> wrote:

>On 4/23/2023 12:51 AM, bud-- wrote:
>> On 4/22/2023 8:51 AM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2023 10:42 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>>>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit. 
>>>>>>>> I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot,
>>>>>>>> maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income.
>>>>>>>> So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without
>>>>>>>> figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have
>>>>>>>> got up there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and
>>>>>> you will fit better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a
>>>>>>>> small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to
>>>>>>>> them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the
>>>>>>>> ceiling got wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a
>>>>>>>> slightly larger plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe
>>>>>>>> they just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC
>>>>>>>> pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC
>>>>>>>> pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short
>>>>>>>> trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up
>>>>>>>> on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is
>>>>>>>> about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes
>>>>>>>> to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to
>>>>>>>> unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is
>>>>>>>> happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit
>>>>>>>> with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the
>>>>>>>> cooling section.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have
>>>>>>>> failed or plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't,
>>>>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.
>>>>>>>> The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit
>>>>>>>> does have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have
>>>>>>>> equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going
>>>>>>>> to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit.
>>>>>>>> (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right
>>>>>>>> at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take
>>>>>>>> meter readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic
>>>>>>>> soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you got power at the unit?
>>>>>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned
>>>>>> on?
>>>>>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>>>>>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>>>>>> worked on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>>>>>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>>>>>> Green - to fan relay
>>>>>> White - runs heat
>>>>>> Yellow - runs AC
>>>>>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>>>>>> electronic tstat
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>>> red to green connection runs fan
>>>>>> red to white connection runs heat
>>>>>> red to yellow runs AC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>>>>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>>>>>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker
>>>>>>> in the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing
>>>>>>> too much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can
>>>>>>> check if that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built
>>>>>>> into the power plug too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the
>>>>> power plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power
>>>>> plug of my air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with
>>>>> circuit breaker sold on Amazon:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amazon:
>>>> "GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
>>>> Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"
>>>>
>>>> Pool pumps require a GFCI
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> "Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
>>>> circuit.
>>>>
>>>> Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.
>>>>
>>>> Does not say it is for window air conditioners.
>>>>
>>>> My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on
>>>> those plugs.
>>>>
>>>> A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for.
>>>> Specs or manual would.
>>>>
>>>> (Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
>>>> "auto-reset".)
>>>
>>>
>>> I have searched high and low, and finally found a photo of the
>>> replacement part of the power cord to my Danby Portable Air
>>> Conditioner (model DPAC10011)
>>>
>>> https://www.danbyapplianceparts.ca/product/power-supply-cord-complete-7/
>>>
>>> You can see two buttons (large and small) on the back of the power
>>> plug by point your mouse at the picture to zoom in.
>>
>> I see lots of power cords, but none with 2 buttons.
>>
>> GFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons. Your Amazon plug is GFCI.
>> AFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons.
>> Circuit breaker plugs - I have never seen one.
>>
>> But you just assume it is a circuit breaker. The picture establishes
>> nothing. I see no reason to believe it is a circuit breaker.
>>
>>>
>>> The only time the circuit breaker had tripped (rarely) was when the
>>> compressor motor was trying to restart (restarting too quickly in hot
>>> weather without relaxing enough pressure). The outer housing of the
>>> portable air condition is completely plastic. There is no reason to
>>> have a circuit breaker built into the power plug other than to
>>> prevent overheating the entire electrical wiring all the way to the
>>> electrical main due to compressor hard start.
>>
>> Don't know where you live, but everywhere I have been circuits are fed
>> by circuit breakers or fuses that open on overload or short. I think
>> that is what they are for.  Plastic is relevant?
>>
>>>
>>> This is the portable air conditioner:
>>>
>>> https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/
>>
>> Says nothing about any kind of protection in the plug.
>>
>> It does have:
>> "What are the standard watts and amps used?"
>> "Information pertaining to watts and camps [Canadian amps?] can be
>> found on the rating plated [metal lettering is plated onto the plastic
>> side?] located on the side of the unit."
>>
>> All you have to do the get the amp/watt rating is to buy one of them.
>>
>> A manual is available at:
>> <https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/?o=pfd>
>>
>> It also says nothing about the plug and gives no amp/watt ratings.
>> This unit does have some amazing specs though:
>> Width     0"
>> Unit       0.00 kg
>> Shipping     0.00 kg
>>
>> I see no reason to think the plug has a circuit breaker.
>> Lots of reasons to think it is an AFCI. My AC has an AFCI plug. I
>> think they all (in the US) do now.
>>
>>
>
>
>I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, near the Great Lakes. It is quite
>hot in August.
>
>The Danby portable air conditioner is 10,000 BTU. That is on the low

On 4/23/2023 3:15 AM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Apr 2023 01:33:49 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
> ? <@.> wrote:
>
>> On 4/23/2023 12:51 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2023 8:51 AM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>> On 4/22/2023 10:42 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2023 9:41 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/22/2023 12:02 AM, bud-- wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/21/2023 5:03 PM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2023 4:05 PM, TimR wrote:
>>>>>>>>> My wife volunteered me to look at a friend's broken AC unit.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not a tech or a mechanic but I said I'd give it a shot,
>>>>>>>>> maybe it's something simple. The friend has very little income.
>>>>>>>>> So I spent the afternoon in a very cramped hot attic, without
>>>>>>>>> figuring it out. I weigh 135, and if it was 136 I might not have
>>>>>>>>> got up there.
>>>>>>> With further work in the hot attic your weight will go down and
>>>>>>> you will fit better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's the (long) story.  It's a small unit that serves only a
>>>>>>>>> small upstairs, gaspack for heat and cooling coil. According to
>>>>>>>>> them, it was working fine until the "pan" rusted through and the
>>>>>>>>> ceiling got wet and fell.  Someone replaced the pan with a
>>>>>>>>> slightly larger plastic one.  And the unit hasn't come on since.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I thought, well sometimes a pan has a float switch, maybe
>>>>>>>>> they just left a wire off.  I can at least take a look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's what I saw:  nice clean new platic overflow pan with PVC
>>>>>>>>> pipe glued in, leading across the attic to unknown. Another PVC
>>>>>>>>> pipe coming out of the cooling section, with the typical short
>>>>>>>>> trap, and again across the attic to unknown. Can't really get up
>>>>>>>>> on that side, I'm looking through a handhole. Thermostat is
>>>>>>>>> about 4 feet below the unit, it has five wires.  One wire goes
>>>>>>>>> to a two conductor wire that roughly tracks the drain pipes to
>>>>>>>>> unknown. Thermostat is set to Cooling, Fan On, but neither is
>>>>>>>>> happening. Thermostat wires connect to the main part of the unit
>>>>>>>>> with the fan and heat, no wires seem to connect over to the
>>>>>>>>> cooling section.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>>>>>>> 1.  If the overflow pan failed, the internal pan must have
>>>>>>>>> failed or plugged first.  Should that trip the unit?  It didn't,
>>>>>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could not find where the condensate is supposed to drain to.
>>>>>>>>> The house has a crawl space, no basement. The downstairs unit
>>>>>>>>> does have a condensate drain I could find.  I don't have
>>>>>>>>> equipment to blow out condensate lines so it seems we're going
>>>>>>>>> to need a pro. But it seems that alone doesn't stop the unit.
>>>>>>>>> (Who puts in condensate lines without a way to unclog them?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2.  The thermostat wires are all connected with wire nuts right
>>>>>>>>> at the hand hole, the easy part of this to access. I can take
>>>>>>>>> meter readings; if so what should I look for?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3.  What am I missing?  This needs to go to a real mechanic
>>>>>>>>> soon, but I'm willing to go back one more time to keep the peace.
>>>>>>> Have you got power at the unit?
>>>>>>> Was a circuit breaker turned off to install the pan and not turned
>>>>>>> on?
>>>>>>>    is there a breaker turned off?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't worked on an attic unit - don't know if they might have
>>>>>>> protection from water accumulating. Never seen it on units I have
>>>>>>> worked on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A common thermostat wiring code is
>>>>>>> Red - 24VAC power to tstat
>>>>>>> Green - to fan relay
>>>>>>> White - runs heat
>>>>>>> Yellow - runs AC
>>>>>>> 5th wire might be other side of 24V power - could be used for
>>>>>>> electronic tstat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>>>> red to green connection runs fan
>>>>>>> red to white connection runs heat
>>>>>>> red to yellow runs AC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is power, with fan, cooling and heat off with this wiring
>>>>>>> there should be 24V between red-green, red-white, red-yellow
>>>>>>>    you can check this at the tstat terminals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I assume there is an outside unit with compressor/condenser. There
>>>>>>> should be 2 (24V) wires to it (likely your "two conductor wire").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There doesn't need to be wiring to the evaporator coil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whoever installed the pan may have liability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a portable air conditioner with a built-in circuit breaker
>>>>>>>> in the power plug. It will trip if the air conditioner is drawing
>>>>>>>> too much current (usually during compressor retarts). You can
>>>>>>>> check if that air conditioner also has a circuit breaker built
>>>>>>>> into the power plug too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attic unit will be hard-wired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Power plug gizmo is likely AFCI
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They can make 15A circuit breaker small enough to fit into the
>>>>>> power plug now. I cannot find on the internet a photo of the power
>>>>>> plug of my air conditioner. This is a replacement power plug with
>>>>>> circuit breaker sold on Amazon:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Outdoor-Waterproof-Auto-Reset-Leakage/dp/B07DWNCQG2
>>>>>>
>>>>> Amazon:
>>>>> "GFCI Replacement Plug for Pressure Washer Pool Pump 15Amp 3 Prong
>>>>> Circuit Breaker Outdoor Waterproof Auto-reset 120V"
>>>>>
>>>>> Pool pumps require a GFCI
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know about pressure washers, but GFCI is reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Circuit breaker" probably means if the GFCI trips it will break the
>>>>> circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does not say anything about tripping at 15A.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does not say it is for window air conditioners.
>>>>>
>>>>> My window air conditioner as an AFCI plug. I think it is common on
>>>>> those plugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> A picture of the plug on your AC wouldn't indicate what it is for.
>>>>> Specs or manual would.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Amazon plug has "test" and "reset" buttons - very unlikely it is
>>>>> "auto-reset".)
>>>>
>>>> I have searched high and low, and finally found a photo of the
>>>> replacement part of the power cord to my Danby Portable Air
>>>> Conditioner (model DPAC10011)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.danbyapplianceparts.ca/product/power-supply-cord-complete-7/
>>>>
>>>> You can see two buttons (large and small) on the back of the power
>>>> plug by point your mouse at the picture to zoom in.
>>> I see lots of power cords, but none with 2 buttons.
>>>
>>> GFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons. Your Amazon plug is GFCI.
>>> AFCI plugs exist and have 2 buttons.
>>> Circuit breaker plugs - I have never seen one.
>>>
>>> But you just assume it is a circuit breaker. The picture establishes
>>> nothing. I see no reason to believe it is a circuit breaker.
>>>
>>>> The only time the circuit breaker had tripped (rarely) was when the
>>>> compressor motor was trying to restart (restarting too quickly in hot
>>>> weather without relaxing enough pressure). The outer housing of the
>>>> portable air condition is completely plastic. There is no reason to
>>>> have a circuit breaker built into the power plug other than to
>>>> prevent overheating the entire electrical wiring all the way to the
>>>> electrical main due to compressor hard start.
>>> Don't know where you live, but everywhere I have been circuits are fed
>>> by circuit breakers or fuses that open on overload or short. I think
>>> that is what they are for.  Plastic is relevant?
>>>
>>>> This is the portable air conditioner:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/
>>> Says nothing about any kind of protection in the plug.
>>>
>>> It does have:
>>> "What are the standard watts and amps used?"
>>> "Information pertaining to watts and camps [Canadian amps?] can be
>>> found on the rating plated [metal lettering is plated onto the plastic
>>> side?] located on the side of the unit."
>>>
>>> All you have to do the get the amp/watt rating is to buy one of them.
>>>
>>> A manual is available at:
>>> <https://www.danby.com/products/portable-air-conditioners/dpac10011/?o=pfd>
>>>
>>> It also says nothing about the plug and gives no amp/watt ratings.
>>> This unit does have some amazing specs though:
>>> Width     0"
>>> Unit       0.00 kg
>>> Shipping     0.00 kg
>>>
>>> I see no reason to think the plug has a circuit breaker.
>>> Lots of reasons to think it is an AFCI. My AC has an AFCI plug. I
>>> think they all (in the US) do now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, near the Great Lakes. It is quite
>> hot in August.
>>
>> The Danby portable air conditioner is 10,000 BTU. That is on the low
> How did the topic become portable airconditioners? The OP's friend's AC
> is in the attic. They don't have portable AC's in the attic, with
> external pans.

On 4/23/2023 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <2f2a549e-0769-4c46-bfcf-627953f51a46n@googlegroups.com>,
> timothy42bach@gmail.com says...
>>> There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
>>> ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.
>> Yup. There was no voltage on the hot pin at the thermostat. Thermostat had a couple AAA batteries so it still lit up.
>>
>> Power wiring did go into an ordinary wall switch. Turned it on, everything came back on. Either the pan guy turned it off, or bumped it by accident; pretty tight quarters up there, and working through a small access hole.
>>
>> As always, better to be lucky than smart.
>>
>>
>>
> Always check the simple things first. I worked at a large factory and
> found out that some of the operators were slightly dumber than a box of
> rocks. Like the call I got that a machine would not start. Told the
> operator to press the Green button instead of the red one.

Whose idea was it to use the green button to turn on some industrial
machinery that can possibly drag you into the machine, shred you, and
spit you in tiny fragments out the other end? They should have used the
red button for "ON".

In article <OHb1M.988130$S2l4.21623@fx12.ams1>, =?UTF-8?B?
8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= <@.> says...
>
> Whose idea was it to use the green button to turn on some industrial
> machinery that can possibly drag you into the machine, shred you, and
> spit you in tiny fragments out the other end? They should have used the
> red button for "ON".
>
>
>
>

In the US green has meant to go if at a traffic light, start machinery
or turn on lights for hard telling how many years. Red means stop or
off. I am just over 70 and that is the way things were in the US

Where I worked that was the way things were, then in the 1990's we got
in some new electrical equipment from Europe that red meant 'danger the
power is on' and green meant no power and it was safe. Lucky no one was
killed by that shit.

On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 12:35:55 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>
> One thing not mentioned was a float switch in the new setup, so I take that to
> mean there isn't one. I suppose there could have been one in the old pan and
> whoever replaced it disconnected it and left it open. That would certainly keep
> it from running. I think it's probably wired in series with the thermostat wires,
> not on separate wiring. Who did this work? If it was an HVAC pro, 99% they
> would have tested it running. If it's some handyman type, they might not have.
>

I had assumed there would be a float switch. There is not, and there was not one in the old pan, I asked. But that was my first guess, that someone had left the float switch open.

There was no pro doing this work. There was some kind of acquaintance skinny enough to get through the small hatch who replaced the pan. Weirdly, he glued the PVC drain pipe into the new pan. But here's my problem. I don't want to walk away from a half solved problem with someone so short of money, but I also don't want to chase this thing forever. The pan we're talking about is underneath the unit. It's an overflow pan, not the primary condensate pan. Why did it ever rust, why did it ever have water in it? It should not. So, either the primary pan has rusted through, or the primary drain pipe is clogged. There are no cleanouts or vents, so it looks like I'm cutting a pipe and trying to get a brush or snake through it. I would guess they usually clog at the trap, which by the way is very shallow. Is that correct for residential? It would never work in commercial, the negative pressure would suck all the water back. Anyway, if the primary pan is not draining, then the overflow pan will work until it clogs, and then the ceiling will come down again.

If I understand code, you're supposed to either put in a float switch or you must route the overflow drain where the homeowner will see it, but I haven't found where either drain dumps.

If I cut the PVC, is there a no-hub in that size? There's no pressure on these lines, and pretty sure it will need to be unclogged again.

On 4/23/2023 10:57 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/23/2023 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <2f2a549e-0769-4c46-bfcf-627953f51a46n@googlegroups.com>,
>> timothy42bach@gmail.com says...
>>>> There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
>>>> ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.
>>> Yup.  There was no voltage on the hot pin at the thermostat.
>>> Thermostat had a couple AAA batteries so it still lit up.
>>>
>>> Power wiring did go into an ordinary wall switch.  Turned it on,
>>> everything came back on.  Either the pan guy turned it off, or
>>> bumped it by accident;  pretty tight quarters up there, and working
>>> through a small access hole.
>>>
>>> As always, better to be lucky than smart.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Always check the simple things first.   I worked at a large factory and
>> found out that some of the operators were slightly dumber than a box of
>> rocks.  Like the call I got that a machine would not start. Told the
>> operator to press the Green button instead of the red one.
>
>
> Whose idea was it to use the green button to turn on some industrial
> machinery that can possibly drag you into the machine, shred you, and
> spit you in tiny fragments out the other end? They should have used
> the red button for "ON".
>
>

The meaning of "Green" means safe. The meaning of "Red" means danger.
That's why in traffic lights "Green" means go, "Red" means stop.

So in machinery, the Red (danger) button should mean ON (it is dangerous
to press this button; think carefully before you press this button), and
the Green (safe) button should mean OFF.

On 4/23/2023 7:51 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 4/23/2023 10:57 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/23/2023 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>> In article <2f2a549e-0769-4c46-bfcf-627953f51a46n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> timothy42bach@gmail.com says...
>>>>> There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
>>>>> ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.
>>>> Yup.  There was no voltage on the hot pin at the thermostat.
>>>> Thermostat had a couple AAA batteries so it still lit up.
>>>>
>>>> Power wiring did go into an ordinary wall switch.  Turned it on,
>>>> everything came back on.  Either the pan guy turned it off, or
>>>> bumped it by accident;  pretty tight quarters up there, and working
>>>> through a small access hole.
>>>>
>>>> As always, better to be lucky than smart.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Always check the simple things first.   I worked at a large factory and
>>> found out that some of the operators were slightly dumber than a box of
>>> rocks.  Like the call I got that a machine would not start. Told the
>>> operator to press the Green button instead of the red one.
>>
>>
>> Whose idea was it to use the green button to turn on some industrial
>> machinery that can possibly drag you into the machine, shred you, and
>> spit you in tiny fragments out the other end? They should have used
>> the red button for "ON".
>>
>>
>
> The meaning of "Green" means safe. The meaning of "Red" means danger.
> That's why in traffic lights "Green" means go, "Red" means stop.
>
> So in machinery, the Red (danger) button should mean ON (it is dangerous
> to press this button; think carefully before you press this button), and
> the Green (safe) button should mean OFF.
>
>
That would be asinine. Green go, red stop, why would you try to change
that? You already said that.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:51:04 -0400, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:

> So in machinery, the Red (danger) button should mean ON (it is dangerous
> to press this button; think carefully before you press this button), and
> the Green (safe) button should mean OFF.

That has never been the case and is ass end backwards to the way most
normal people think.

https://breakeroutlet.com/motor-control/9001r22-square-d-mushroom-e-
stop-1-1-2-inch/

The large red button means STOP.

On 4/23/2023 9:23 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:51:04 -0400, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>
>> So in machinery, the Red (danger) button should mean ON (it is dangerous
>> to press this button; think carefully before you press this button), and
>> the Green (safe) button should mean OFF.
> That has never been the case and is ass end backwards to the way most
> normal people think.
>
> https://breakeroutlet.com/motor-control/9001r22-square-d-mushroom-e-stop-1-1-2-inch/
>
> The large red button means STOP.

The nuclear button on the US president's desk (also Kim Jong-Un's) is
RED. Ask Trump. The top thinkers used the colour code correctly like me.

On 4/23/2023 8:35 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 4/23/2023 7:51 PM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> On 4/23/2023 10:57 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2023 10:40 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> In article <2f2a549e-0769-4c46-bfcf-627953f51a46n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> timothy42bach@gmail.com says...
>>>>>> There should be a "disconnect" at the unit, which would be like an
>>>>>> ordinary wall switch. Trace the power wiring coming into the unit.
>>>>> Yup.  There was no voltage on the hot pin at the thermostat.
>>>>> Thermostat had a couple AAA batteries so it still lit up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Power wiring did go into an ordinary wall switch.  Turned it on,
>>>>> everything came back on.  Either the pan guy turned it off, or
>>>>> bumped it by accident;  pretty tight quarters up there, and
>>>>> working through a small access hole.
>>>>>
>>>>> As always, better to be lucky than smart.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Always check the simple things first.   I worked at a large factory
>>>> and
>>>> found out that some of the operators were slightly dumber than a
>>>> box of
>>>> rocks.  Like the call I got that a machine would not start. Told the
>>>> operator to press the Green button instead of the red one.
>>>
>>>
>>> Whose idea was it to use the green button to turn on some industrial
>>> machinery that can possibly drag you into the machine, shred you,
>>> and spit you in tiny fragments out the other end? They should have
>>> used the red button for "ON".
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The meaning of "Green" means safe. The meaning of "Red" means danger.
>> That's why in traffic lights "Green" means go, "Red" means stop.
>>
>> So in machinery, the Red (danger) button should mean ON (it is
>> dangerous to press this button; think carefully before you press this
>> button), and the Green (safe) button should mean OFF.
>>
>>
> That would be asinine.  Green go, red stop, why would you try to
> change that? You already said that.

It's time for change - Obama.