My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

wAYNE <none@nowhere.net> writes:
>My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
>overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
>WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

WD40 is useless (Water Displacement, Formula 40) for that application.

You need a penetrating oil like liquid wrench. However, you need
to get the oil on the nut, not the head of cover bolt and you may
not be able to reach it with the cover on.

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 1:34:30 PM UTC-5, wAYNE wrote:
> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.

Is there room to use a hammer? If so, hold a heavier hammer against one side, then hit the opposite side with a smaller one. Hold a chisel or punch against the frozen part. Then pound on the chisel. Vibration loosens things.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
<deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 1:34:30?PM UTC-5, wAYNE wrote:
>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
>> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
>
> Is there room to use a hammer?
> If so, hold a heavier hammer against one side, then hit the opposite side with a smaller one.
> Hold a chisel or punch against the frozen part.
> Then pound on the chisel. Vibration loosens things.
>

If ony someone invented a device that _turns_
as you rap it with a hammer ...

https://tinyurl.com/83sttffa

... you'd have that magic effect ! :-)

Although a bath tub might be a bit fragile
for a hammered impact driver .. perhaps an
impact drill-driver would work ?
John T.

Thanks, all. I got it. I drilled out the original screws with larger
drill bits until the plate pulled away easily. Will have to replace the
screws and plate, but job done and drain running again.

I like the idea of perhaps running through the drain hole itself. Did
not consider this. I had some difficulty running the snake through the
overflow and I only partially unblocked the drain due to resistance.
Maybe investigate the drain itself next time.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <reedh@rmi.net> wrote:

>On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line.  Trouble is, the
>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge.  Tried spraying with
>> WD40 to no avail.  Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>> heat gun, but no help.  Suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.
>
>Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
>unscrew the plug.
>
>Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
>snake can get to the main drain pipe.

I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
for the sink drain !
John T.

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 3:55:29 PM UTC-4, hub...@ccanoemail..com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <re...@rmi.net> wrote:
>
> >On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> >> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> >> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
> >> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
> >> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> >> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
> >unscrew the plug.
> >
> >Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
> >snake can get to the main drain pipe.
> I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
> as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
> Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
> disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
> Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
> ~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
> I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
> even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
> lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
> for the sink drain !
> John T.
I will keep that one in mind. Good simple advice. My advice was going to be rip the drain cover off and replace.

On 4/12/23 3:55 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <reedh@rmi.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
>>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line.  Trouble is, the
>>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge.  Tried spraying with
>>> WD40 to no avail.  Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>>> heat gun, but no help.  Suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
>> unscrew the plug.
>>
>> Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
>> snake can get to the main drain pipe.
>
>
> I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
> as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
> Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
> disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
> Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
> ~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
> I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
> even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
> lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
> for the sink drain !
> John T.
>
Well you can buy purpose-made strips like you describe. Mine is made by
Brasscraft called a Zip-It. As said, it is very good at pulling out hair
clogs.

Also WAYNE may want to consider one of the screen things that replace
the drain plug, and catches hair before it can go down drain.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bathtub+drain+screen+hair+catcher

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-4, retired1 wrote:
> On 4/12/23 3:55 PM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <re...@rmi.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> >>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> >>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
> >>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
> >>> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> >>> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >> Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
> >> unscrew the plug.
> >>
> >> Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
> >> snake can get to the main drain pipe.
> >
> >
> > I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
> > as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
> > Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
> > disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
> > Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
> > ~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
> > I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
> > even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
> > lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
> > for the sink drain !
> > John T.
> >
> Well you can buy purpose-made strips like you describe. Mine is made by
> Brasscraft called a Zip-It. As said, it is very good at pulling out hair
> clogs.
>
> Also WAYNE may want to consider one of the screen things that replace
> the drain plug, and catches hair before it can go down drain.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bathtub+drain+screen+hair+catcher
Re reading that, my bad. I was thinking the round cheap drain, not the overflow.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:39:14 -0400, retired1 <reedh@rmi.net> wrote:

>On 4/12/23 3:55 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <reedh@rmi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
>>>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>>>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line.  Trouble is, the
>>>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge.  Tried spraying with
>>>> WD40 to no avail.  Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>>>> heat gun, but no help.  Suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
>>> unscrew the plug.
>>>
>>> Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
>>> snake can get to the main drain pipe.
>>
>>
>> I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
>> as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
>> Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
>> disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
>> Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
>> ~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
>> I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
>> even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
>> lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
>> for the sink drain !
>> John T.
>>
>Well you can buy purpose-made strips like you describe. Mine is made by
>Brasscraft called a Zip-It. As said, it is very good at pulling out hair
>clogs.
>

Hey ! They stole my idea ! :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlkdx8XJmu8

John T.

wAYNE wrote:
> Thanks, all.  I got it.  I drilled out the original screws with larger drill bits until the plate pulled away easily.  Will have to replace the screws and plate, but job done and drain running again.
>
> I like the idea of perhaps running through the drain hole itself.  Did not consider this.  I had some difficulty running the snake through the overflow and I only partially unblocked the drain due to resistance. Maybe investigate the drain itself next time.

You've gone this far, might as well remodel the bathroom.

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 4:11:30 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail..com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:39:14 -0400, retired1 <re...@rmi.net> wrote:
>
> >On 4/12/23 3:55 PM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> >> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:28:34 -0400, retired1 <re...@rmi.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> >>>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> >>>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
> >>>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
> >>>> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> >>>> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
> >>>
> >>> Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
> >>> unscrew the plug.
> >>>
> >>> Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
> >>> snake can get to the main drain pipe.
> >>
> >>
> >> I've had very good success using a honkin' big zip tie
> >> as a snake. The kind that is heavy duty thickness and ~ 2 ft. long.
> >> Cut a few angled slices into the pointy end to snag hair and drag the
> >> disgusting hair-gunk up to where you can grab it and pull it out.
> >> Once you've removed a surprising amount of the clog -
> >> ~ a quarter cup < ! > flush a pail of hot hot water down.
> >> I've used this method several times on tub/shower drains and
> >> even on a bathroom sink drain - it's quicker and easier than
> >> lying contorted on the floor to access the clean-out trap
> >> for the sink drain !
> >> John T.
> >>
> >Well you can buy purpose-made strips like you describe. Mine is made by
> >Brasscraft called a Zip-It. As said, it is very good at pulling out hair
> >clogs.
> >
> Hey ! They stole my idea ! :-)

So did the Scotch in 1494. I hope you are getting royalties in hip flasks if
not in pounds.

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlkdx8XJmu8
> e
> John T.

On 4/12/2023 12:27 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:09:08 -0400,
> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
>> <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 1:34:30?PM UTC-5, wAYNE wrote:
>>>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>>>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
>>>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
>>>> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>>>> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Is there room to use a hammer?
>>> If so, hold a heavier hammer against one side, then hit the opposite side with a smaller one.
>>> Hold a chisel or punch against the frozen part.
>>> Then pound on the chisel. Vibration loosens things.
>>>
>>
>> If ony someone invented a device that _turns_
>> as you rap it with a hammer ...
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/83sttffa
>>
>> .. you'd have that magic effect ! :-)
>>
>> Although a bath tub might be a bit fragile
>> for a hammered impact driver .. perhaps an
>> impact drill-driver would work ?
>
> I have one of those (two of those) but haven't used the impact part. Do
> they keep bumping counter-clockwise (if set that way)?

You use the correct bit for the screw in the driver. Insert the bit into
the screw, twist the driver handle the direction you want it to turn the
screw until it lightly reaches the limit of movement in that direction
then, then hit the end of the tool with the hammer. As the screw turns,
turn the tool with it before each additional hit.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:09:08 -0400,
hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
><deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 1:34:30?PM UTC-5, wAYNE wrote:
>>> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
>>> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
>>> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
>>> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
>>> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Is there room to use a hammer?
>> If so, hold a heavier hammer against one side, then hit the opposite side with a smaller one.
>> Hold a chisel or punch against the frozen part.
>> Then pound on the chisel. Vibration loosens things.
>>
>
>If ony someone invented a device that _turns_
> as you rap it with a hammer ...
>
>https://tinyurl.com/83sttffa
>
>.. you'd have that magic effect ! :-)
>
>Although a bath tub might be a bit fragile
>for a hammered impact driver .. perhaps an
>impact drill-driver would work ?

I have one of those (two of those) but haven't used the impact part. Do
they keep bumping counter-clockwise (if set that way)?

> John T.

In addition to other suggestions. Try tightening the screws. If
there's a little room to tighten, you can start wiggling back and forth.

If nothing works, you can drill the screws out. Use a reversible drill
and left-handed drill bits, one just smaller than the threads on the
screw. There a chance, maybe a slim chance because of all the water,
that the screw will start to unscrew while you are drilling when its
center is gone and it doesn't hold as tight to what it's screwed into.

Left-handed bits are usually expensive and sold one at a time but Harbor
Freight has a set of 4 for a low price and they are good enough if
you're not going to use them too many times.

If there are no decent threads left after driling, I guess replacement
has to be done with glue, PC-7 or PC-11 which are stiffer and easier to
build with than that that stuff that comes in a tube, whose name I've
forgotten. You'll have to be gentle when opening and closing the drain.
Or maybe you'll see some other way.

Or give up on this and see if you can find a thin snake, maybe plastic
with barbs, thin enough to go through the overflow slot, or the tub
drain. Maybe the one with barbs that hook on to hair and clogs so you
can pull them out.

On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line.  Trouble is, the
> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge.  Tried spraying with
> WD40 to no avail.  Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> heat gun, but no help.  Suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.

Have your tried going thru the bottom of the tub drain hole ? Just
unscrew the plug.

Going thru the overflow means you have 2 corners to turn before the
snake can get to the main drain pipe.

On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 2:09:19 PM UTC-5, hub...@ccanoemail..com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
> <dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 1:34:30?PM UTC-5, wAYNE wrote:
> >> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> >> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line. Trouble is, the
> >> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge. Tried spraying with
> >> WD40 to no avail. Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> >> heat gun, but no help. Suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Is there room to use a hammer?
> > If so, hold a heavier hammer against one side, then hit the opposite side with a smaller one.
> > Hold a chisel or punch against the frozen part.
> > Then pound on the chisel. Vibration loosens things.
> >
> If ony someone invented a device that _turns_
> as you rap it with a hammer ...
>
> https://tinyurl.com/83sttffa
>
> .. you'd have that magic effect ! :-)
>
> Although a bath tub might be a bit fragile
> for a hammered impact driver .. perhaps an
> impact drill-driver would work ?
> John T.

Harbor Freight has electric or battery powered impact wrenches. One would have to be careful.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/impact-wrenches/electric-impact-wrenches.html?category=3869&current=1>
They have all sorts of battery powered ones but they're expensive for one time use.

On 4/12/23 5:21 PM, Kevin O'Cunnilingus wrote:
> wAYNE wrote:
>> Thanks, all.  I got it.  I drilled out the original screws with larger
>> drill bits until the plate pulled away easily.  Will have to replace
>> the screws and plate, but job done and drain running again.
>>
>> I like the idea of perhaps running through the drain hole itself.  Did
>> not consider this.  I had some difficulty running the snake through
>> the overflow and I only partially unblocked the drain due to
>> resistance. Maybe investigate the drain itself next time.
>
>
> You've gone this far, might as well remodel the bathroom.
No money to do it, out of work, looking for work. Being my own handyman
as much as possible, but not always successful. In fact, it's
unfortunately worth a new thread I'll be starting presently :(

Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
tub. I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
cut. In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
ups of the broken screws/ studs.
https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
any. With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
tiny space.

On 4/12/23 2:34 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> My bathtub drainage has nearly stopped, so I was going to try removing
> the overflow cover and run a snake through the line.  Trouble is, the
> overflow cover bolts seem frozen and won't budge.  Tried spraying with
> WD40 to no avail.  Also have tried heating on the low setting with a
> heat gun, but no help.  Suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <none@nowhere.net> wrote:

>Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
>simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
>tub. I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
>ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
>cut. In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
>ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>
>https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>
>As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
>any. With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
>and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
>tiny space.
>
>
>

Nice photos !
It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
plate that are still intact.
It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
should come out using pliers or needle nose vice grips.
Try scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
giving it an hour to soak in.
... it looks like a long shot from the photo but worth a try.
John T.

On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
>> tub. I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
>> cut. In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>>
>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
>> any. With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
>> tiny space.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Nice photos !
> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
> plate that are still intact.
> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
> should come out using pliers or needle nose vice grips.
> Try scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
> left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
> giving it an hour to soak in.
> .. it looks like a long shot from the photo but worth a try.
> John T.

Thanks. I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
possible. Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with Liquid
Wrench, I brought out my clock oil. It has a long, thin tip and I
applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side. I'll let
that sit for a while and try again.

I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
better access to the studs. That is, IF those bolts will budge. Not
sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if they
don't.

On 4/14/23 9:03 AM, wAYNE wrote:
> On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
>>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
>>> tub.  I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
>>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
>>> cut.  In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
>>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>>>
>>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
>>> any.  With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
>>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
>>> tiny space.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Nice photos !
>> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
>> plate that are still intact.
>> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
>> should come out using  pliers or needle nose vice grips.
>>   Try  scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
>>   left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
>>    giving it an hour to soak in.
>> .. it looks like a long shot  from the photo  but worth a try.
>>     John T.
>
> Thanks.  I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
> possible.  Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with Liquid
> Wrench, I brought out my clock oil.  It has a long, thin tip and I
> applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side.  I'll let
> that sit for a while and try again.
>
> I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
> better access to the studs.  That is, IF those bolts will budge.  Not
> sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if they
> don't.
Well, much to my surprise, that half circle retainer came off easily
giving me a bit more access to the studs. Coated at the base with the
clock oil. Still not budging after 10 min, so applied a bit more.

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 9:20:59 AM UTC-4, wAYNE wrote:
> On 4/14/23 9:03 AM, wAYNE wrote:
> > On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
> >>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
> >>> tub. I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
> >>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
> >>> cut. In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
> >>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
> >>>
> >>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
> >>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
> >>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
> >>>
> >>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
> >>> any. With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
> >>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
> >>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
> >>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
> >>> tiny space.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Nice photos !
> >> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
> >> plate that are still intact.
> >> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
> >> should come out using pliers or needle nose vice grips.
> >> Try scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
> >> left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
> >> giving it an hour to soak in.
> >> .. it looks like a long shot from the photo but worth a try.
> >> John T.
> >
> > Thanks. I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
> > possible. Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with Liquid
> > Wrench, I brought out my clock oil. It has a long, thin tip and I
> > applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side. I'll let
> > that sit for a while and try again.
> >
> > I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
> > better access to the studs. That is, IF those bolts will budge. Not
> > sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if they
> > don't.
> Well, much to my surprise, that half circle retainer came off easily
> giving me a bit more access to the studs. Coated at the base with the
> clock oil. Still not budging after 10 min, so applied a bit more.

I think you are going to be able to get those screws out by grabbing with vise grips or similar - maybe a small lineman's pliers would give you good purchase without being too wide. Vibration and penetrating oil are your friends, and be patient. Grip the screw, put some light torque on it, keep tapping it. You would be surprised at what a few minutes of high volume low intensity tapping can do.

I am a little more concerned about the retainer screws. They hold the overflow against the gasket and the gasket against the tub. When that gasket doesn't seal you get a leak, it damaged my ceiling downstairs. The overflow moves surprisingly easy when not secured by those screws. When we replaced the gasket, my plumber worked from the tub side while I adjusted the pipe from the access panel behind it. Do not lose those screws - actually see if you can buy exact replacements - and consider a gasket replacement; if not then add a little silicone there. (My first plumber did that, which did not stop the leak, and DID piss off my second plumber who had a hard time getting the gasket changed.)

On 4/14/2023 7:11 AM, TimR wrote:
> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 9:20:59 AM UTC-4, wAYNE wrote:
>> On 4/14/23 9:03 AM, wAYNE wrote:
>>> On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning towards
>>>>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it to the
>>>>> tub. I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate if I
>>>>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
>>>>> cut. In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with close
>>>>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread left, if
>>>>> any. With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the corrosion
>>>>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>>>>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>>>>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
>>>>> tiny space.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nice photos !
>>>> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
>>>> plate that are still intact.
>>>> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
>>>> should come out using pliers or needle nose vice grips.
>>>> Try scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
>>>> left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
>>>> giving it an hour to soak in.
>>>> .. it looks like a long shot from the photo but worth a try.
>>>> John T.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
>>> possible. Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with Liquid
>>> Wrench, I brought out my clock oil. It has a long, thin tip and I
>>> applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side. I'll let
>>> that sit for a while and try again.
>>>
>>> I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
>>> better access to the studs. That is, IF those bolts will budge. Not
>>> sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if they
>>> don't.
>> Well, much to my surprise, that half circle retainer came off easily
>> giving me a bit more access to the studs. Coated at the base with the
>> clock oil. Still not budging after 10 min, so applied a bit more.
>
> I think you are going to be able to get those screws out by grabbing with vise grips or similar - maybe a small lineman's pliers would give you good purchase without being too wide. Vibration and penetrating oil are your friends, and be patient. Grip the screw, put some light torque on it, keep tapping it. You would be surprised at what a few minutes of high volume low intensity tapping can do.
>

I agree with the vice grip approach. Get a good grip on the screw, then
twist it left and right repeatedly. The idea is not to apply enough for
to deform or break the screw, but to get it to move even the slightest
amount, then rock it back and forth until it loosens enough to get lube
into the threads and then unscrew. Patience pays here.

On 4/14/2023 12:29 PM, wAYNE wrote:
> On 4/14/23 12:12 PM, Bob F wrote:
>> On 4/14/2023 7:11 AM, TimR wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 9:20:59 AM UTC-4, wAYNE wrote:
>>>> On 4/14/23 9:03 AM, wAYNE wrote:
>>>>> On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning
>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> tub.  I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate
>>>>>>> if I
>>>>>>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone can be
>>>>>>> cut.  In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area with
>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread
>>>>>>> left, if
>>>>>>> any.  With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the
>>>>>>> corrosion
>>>>>>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>>>>>>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into that
>>>>>>> tiny space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice photos !
>>>>>> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
>>>>>> plate that are still intact.
>>>>>> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
>>>>>> should come out using  pliers or needle nose vice grips.
>>>>>>    Try  scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
>>>>>>    left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
>>>>>>     giving it an hour to soak in.
>>>>>> .. it looks like a long shot  from the photo  but worth a try.
>>>>>>      John T.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.  I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
>>>>> possible.  Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with
>>>>> Liquid
>>>>> Wrench, I brought out my clock oil.  It has a long, thin tip and I
>>>>> applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side.  I'll let
>>>>> that sit for a while and try again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
>>>>> better access to the studs.  That is, IF those bolts will budge.  Not
>>>>> sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if they
>>>>> don't.
>>>> Well, much to my surprise, that half circle retainer came off easily
>>>> giving me a bit more access to the studs. Coated at the base with the
>>>> clock oil. Still not budging after 10 min, so applied a bit more.
>>>
>>> I think you are going to be able to get those screws out by grabbing
>>> with vise grips or similar - maybe a small lineman's pliers would
>>> give you good purchase without being too wide.  Vibration and
>>> penetrating oil are your friends, and be patient.  Grip the screw,
>>> put some light torque on it, keep tapping it.  You would be surprised
>>> at what a few minutes of high volume low intensity tapping can do.
>>>
>>
>> I agree with the vice grip approach. Get a good grip on the screw,
>> then twist it left and right repeatedly. The idea is not to apply
>> enough for to deform or break the screw, but to get it to move even
>> the slightest amount, then rock it back and forth until it loosens
>> enough to get lube into the threads and then unscrew. Patience pays here.
>
> No good.  I seemed to actually be able to start tightening the right
> bolt, but would not budge when loosened.  Tried moving it back and
> forth.  All the vice grips were doing was stripping the bolt further.
>
> I guess I'm pretty much settled on the silicon adhered cover, but
> there's one last approach that may work IF such an adapter is available.
>  I refer to something like these:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Inserts-Self-Tapping-Reinforce-Tapping/dp/B07QLRH3WK

Same concept as the helicoils I suggested, except those don't require a
tap and are designed for softer materials. Do check that they will work
in brass fittings, which is probably harder than copper. But then again,
maybe that part is copper.

>
>
> Notice that some of the inserts there look notched as if to be tightened
> by a screwdriver.  Although I don't think these are right for this
> application, is there such an insert that is self threading?  In other
> words, using a screwdriver, could I create the new threads on these
> corroded studs simply by tightening with such an insert?  An alternative
> would be to simply epoxy a slightly larger insert over the threads and
> then use slightly larger cover bolts.  I'm not sure what epoxy would be
> suitable however.  I've had good luck with JB Weld for many jobs, but
> never anything where the exposure to moisture would be this high.
>

Cutting threads in hard mateerials take more force than a screwdriver
can normally provide. The helicoil kit generally includes the proper
size drill for the tap that makes the new threads and the tool that
screws the coil into place. You would also need a tool to hold the tap
as you thread the hole. You might find that auto parts place might loan
out the tool kit if you buy the helicoils from them.

Since there are other screws holding the fitting against the tub, your
caulk solution might work, and would not preclude the re-thread if it
does not hold up.

Your faith in adhesive solutions for this situation is higher than mine.

On 4/14/2023 1:02 PM, Bob F wrote:
> On 4/14/2023 12:29 PM, wAYNE wrote:
>> On 4/14/23 12:12 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>> On 4/14/2023 7:11 AM, TimR wrote:
>>>> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 9:20:59 AM UTC-4, wAYNE wrote:
>>>>> On 4/14/23 9:03 AM, wAYNE wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/14/23 8:07 AM, hub...@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 06:40:09 -0400, wAYNE <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since so many folks have been offering suggestions, I am leaning
>>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>>> simply applying aquarium silicone to a new cover and adhering it
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> tub.  I know not the best way as I'll have to cut away the plate
>>>>>>>> if I
>>>>>>>> ever need overflow access again, but at least I know silicone
>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>> cut.  In any case, I thought I would post photos of the area
>>>>>>>> with close
>>>>>>>> ups of the broken screws/ studs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/DKZ8vJY
>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/H9wk2Ir.jpg
>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/Me5T1qL.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As you can see from the close ups of the studs, not much thread
>>>>>>>> left, if
>>>>>>>> any.  With a dremel, I might be able to sand away much of the
>>>>>>>> corrosion
>>>>>>>> and maybe epoxy threaded inserts over top of the existing studs(?)
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I don't see a way of rethreading the existing broken
>>>>>>>> studs as the tap and die set I have is way to large to fit into
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> tiny space.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice photos !
>>>>>>> It looks like the drain is held against the gasket with the screws &
>>>>>>> plate that are still intact.
>>>>>>> It looks like the right hand screw has turned a couple turns and
>>>>>>> should come out using  pliers or needle nose vice grips.
>>>>>>>    Try  scratching all the corrosion from around the base of the
>>>>>>>    left hand screw and using a couple drops of penetrating oil.
>>>>>>>     giving it an hour to soak in.
>>>>>>> .. it looks like a long shot  from the photo  but worth a try.
>>>>>>>      John T.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.  I made it a point to try getting the best resolution photos
>>>>>> possible.  Well, not wanting to stick up the bathroom again with
>>>>>> Liquid
>>>>>> Wrench, I brought out my clock oil.  It has a long, thin tip and I
>>>>>> applied a drop where the stud meets the base on each side.  I'll let
>>>>>> that sit for a while and try again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think if I removed that retainer(?) along the bottom, I would have
>>>>>> better access to the studs.  That is, IF those bolts will budge.  Not
>>>>>> sure if they would and I'm not going to jeopardize what's left if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> don't.
>>>>> Well, much to my surprise, that half circle retainer came off easily
>>>>> giving me a bit more access to the studs. Coated at the base with the
>>>>> clock oil. Still not budging after 10 min, so applied a bit more.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are going to be able to get those screws out by grabbing
>>>> with vise grips or similar - maybe a small lineman's pliers would
>>>> give you good purchase without being too wide.  Vibration and
>>>> penetrating oil are your friends, and be patient.  Grip the screw,
>>>> put some light torque on it, keep tapping it.  You would be
>>>> surprised at what a few minutes of high volume low intensity tapping
>>>> can do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with the vice grip approach. Get a good grip on the screw,
>>> then twist it left and right repeatedly. The idea is not to apply
>>> enough for to deform or break the screw, but to get it to move even
>>> the slightest amount, then rock it back and forth until it loosens
>>> enough to get lube into the threads and then unscrew. Patience pays
>>> here.
>>
>> No good.  I seemed to actually be able to start tightening the right
>> bolt, but would not budge when loosened.  Tried moving it back and
>> forth.  All the vice grips were doing was stripping the bolt further.
>>
>> I guess I'm pretty much settled on the silicon adhered cover, but
>> there's one last approach that may work IF such an adapter is
>> available.   I refer to something like these:
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Inserts-Self-Tapping-Reinforce-Tapping/dp/B07QLRH3WK
>>
>
> Same concept as the helicoils I suggested, except those don't require a
> tap and are designed for softer materials. Do check that they will work
> in brass fittings, which is probably harder than copper. But then again,
> maybe that part is copper.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Notice that some of the inserts there look notched as if to be
>> tightened by a screwdriver.  Although I don't think these are right
>> for this application, is there such an insert that is self threading?
>> In other words, using a screwdriver, could I create the new threads on
>> these corroded studs simply by tightening with such an insert?  An
>> alternative would be to simply epoxy a slightly larger insert over the
>> threads and then use slightly larger cover bolts.  I'm not sure what
>> epoxy would be suitable however.  I've had good luck with JB Weld for
>> many jobs, but never anything where the exposure to moisture would be
>> this high.
>>
>
> Cutting threads in hard mateerials take more force than a screwdriver
> can normally provide. The helicoil kit generally includes the proper
> size drill for the tap that makes the new threads and the tool that
> screws the coil into place. You would also need a tool to hold the tap
> as you thread the hole.  You might find that auto parts place might loan
> out the tool kit if you buy the helicoils from them.
>
> Since there are other screws holding the fitting against the tub, your
> caulk solution might work, and would not preclude the re-thread if it
> does not hold up.
>
> Your faith in adhesive solutions for this situation is higher than mine.
>
Oops. That last line was intended to apply to the insert oover the
threads.