On 12/19/2022 11:44 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>
> Your leach field is too close to the surface. It should be 18-36
> inches deep. Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
> something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
>

You think the liquid cannot wick itself into drier soil above?

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 11:46:27 -0500, micky
<NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>Trader said
>>And the conversation was about gray water, which is used for irrigation in
>>the normal way.

I feel the conversaion was about septic tank output, just as much as it
was about grey water.
>
>I think there are a lot of ways to do irrigation. What do you mean by
>"the normal way".

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>
>Your leach field is too close to the surface.

What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
as close as it is?

> It should be 18-36
>inches deep.

How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?

If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
of the yard isn't uniform?

> Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
>something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).

Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?

On 2022-12-20, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
><hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>>> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>>
>>Your leach field is too close to the surface.
>
> What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
> as close as it is?
>
>> It should be 18-36
>>inches deep.
>
> How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
> water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?
>
> If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
> would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
> What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
> of the yard isn't uniform?
>
>> Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
>>something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
>
> Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
> a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
> think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
> effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
> don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
> it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?

Septic field water is not free from pathogens. If you're spraying
it around, it's a problem. If you're just letting capillary action
or some other force draw it upwards, it's not irrigation.

--
Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 20 Dec 2022 10:36:33 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 2022-12-20, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
>><hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>>>> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>>>
>>>Your leach field is too close to the surface.
>>
>> What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
>> as close as it is?
>>
>>> It should be 18-36
>>>inches deep.
>>
>> How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
>> water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?
>>
>> If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
>> would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
>> What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
>> of the yard isn't uniform?
>>
>>> Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
>>>something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
>>
>> Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
>> a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
>> think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
>> effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
>> don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
>> it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?
>
>Septic field water is not free from pathogens. If you're spraying
>it around, it's a problem. If you're just letting capillary action
>or some other force draw it upwards, it's not irrigation.

Believe it or not, I don't like arguing with you but trader hasn't
posted here lately. ;0)

I'm glad I didn't use the word irrigation, only watering the lawn.

OTOH, I just now read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrigation which
starts off "Irrigation is .... to assist in the production of crops, as
well as to grow landscape plants and lawns, where it may be known as
watering. So that would makes watering the lawn irrigation whether I
used the word or not. But I didn't use the word for any of its
connotations etc, only to point out to trader that, as I put it,
"whatever comes out of septic tank including toilet water also waters
the lawn." Not sure what better words to use.

It also says "There are several methods of irrigation.........
Subirrigation has been used for many years in field crops in areas with
high water tables. It is a method of artificially raising the water
table to allow the soil to be moistened from below the plants' root
zone." But I'd never heard of subirrigation before. I only meant that
it watered part of the lawn and turned it green.

Googling septic tanks as irrigation gave many intesting articles,
some that seem to me to show contradictory practices.

A) Is septic tank water good for plants?
Vegetable gardening over a leach field is a bad idea. Though properly
functioning septic systems won't contaminate the soil with harmful
pathogens, there is no easy way to guarantee that the crops grown over a
leach field will be safe to eat. --- Fortunately, only the rabbits ate
the grass. (or do they?)
Is it okay to plant a garden over a leach field? - UNH Extension
https://extension.unh.edu › blog › 2019/12 › it-okay-plan...

B) Can sewer water be used for irrigation?
Williams said there is plenty of water to be had, and his research shows
that municipal wastewater can be used to irrigate crops. “One of the
best ways we can increase efficiency and sustainability is to reuse
reclaimed water,” he said
Treated Wastewater May Be the Irrigation Wave of the Future - USDA
https://www.usda.gov › media › blog › 2020/07/21 › treat.

C) Can you use septic water on fruit trees?
Never use grey water on food plants of any sort: ie, vegies, herbs,
fruit trees etc. And don't even consider using grey water near native
plants, as the phosphates from detergents will kill them in no time.
Spread your grey water around the property, don't always dump it in the
same spot.
Grey Water - Burke's Backyard
https://www.burkesbackyard.com.au › fact-sheets › grey-...

D) Maryland Imposes Drip Irrigation System Moratorium
https://www.onsiteinstaller.com › editorial › 2010/12
Dec 31, 2010 — Problems with two of the 13 drip irrigation septic
systems in Maryland have prompted a yearlong moratorium on new drip
systems in the state. --- I didn't know there were "drip irrigation
septic systems". " must install soil moisture sensors (tensiometers)
in the drip irrigation field. If soil moisture reaches 90 percent
saturation, drip irrigation must be terminated."

But all it says about what the problem is is " Ponding and other
problems over the last several years at two developments in the southern
part of the state led to calls for a three- to five-year moratorium from
16 environmental groups."
https://www.onsiteinstaller.com/editorial/2010/12/maryland-imposes-drip-irrigation-system-moratorium

And interesting that google search page gives a date, but there is no
date to be seen on the webpage itself. I see that a lot. And why is
there no date on the webpage given that it's about news and a *yearlong*
moratorium. I also see a lot of pages that should have dates but don't.

There are lots more and they all sound interesting.

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:31:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:59:41 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> >> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 16 Dec 2022 08:23:56 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> >> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:45:05 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 10:03 PM, Boris wrote:
> >> >> >> > Snag <snag...@msn.com> wrote in news:KPQmL.16920$wfQc...@fx43.iad:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 8:01 PM, Boris wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> I'm new to septic systems.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> In July 2021, I purchased a mountain vacation home that uses a septic
> >> >> >> >>> system. The 1,000 gallon septic tank was pumped as a requirement
> >> >> >> >>> before sale. Since then, I've been using Rid-x once a month. One
> >> >> >> >>> person, my daughter occupies the home full time. We visit once a
> >> >> >> >>> month or so.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> I recently contacted the septice company that pumped the tank, and
> >> >> >> >>> they told me they had a product for $20 that only needed to be used
> >> >> >> >>> once a year, rather than the more expensive Rid-x monthly treatment.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> I've read that some septic tank owners also treat their system once a
> >> >> >> >>> year, with no problems.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Anyone have any comments/advice?
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> TIA
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Flush a piece of raw chicken down the toilet and forget about
> >> >> >> >> treatments . Once you have established the bacteria that break down
> >> >> >> >> the products you flush
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Sounds like starter yeast when making bread...once started, it lasts
> >> >> >> > perpetuates itself.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > , you only have to have it pumped every ten or
> >> >> >> >> fifteen years (don't flush feminine hygiene products) . Depends on how
> >> >> >> >> much sludge builds up in the tank . We just had a new 750 gallon
> >> >> >> >> concrete tank installed (last Monday) because the steel tank was
> >> >> >> >> rusting out - we got screwed on the old one . After 15 years it
> >> >> >> >> actually had very little sludge . Out here the only thing that goes
> >> >> >> >> into the tank is black water , gray water goes directly into a
> >> >> >> >> separate drainage field , codes in your area might not allow that .
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I'm assuming by black water you mean toilet water, and grey water is all
> >> >> >> > other water? I'll have to ask my county/septic man. I've tried to
> >> >> >> > trace all the drainage pipes under the house, but once they dive into
> >> >> >> > the earth, I loose them.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Gray water is the overflow from the sediment tank that goes to the drain
> >> >> >> field.
> >> >> I'm not sure what is meant by overflow from the sediment tank. The tank
> >> >> is more than a sediment tank and normally output has not merely
> >> >> overflowed. It stays a while and changes in some way.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That definition is uniquely yours. The industry and regulators define gray
> >> >> >water as water from sinks, showers, baths, washing machines, etc. ie water that
> >> >> >is not full of human waste bacteria. Those regulators allow gray water to be
> >> >> >used to irrigate lawns, what do you think would happen if they used your
> >> >> >"gray water"?
> >> >> Not arguing about the definition but at my home and many others,
> >> >> whatever comes ouut of septic tank including toilet water also waters
> >> >> the lawn.
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Say what? By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
> >> >your lawn?
> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
> >
> >So your septic tank effluent sprays out on the lawn?
> You never said "spray" before. Your last verbs were "irrigate", "used",
> and "using". Why did you change to spray? To pretend to win? Of course
> it doesn't spray.

I didn't change to spray. It was clear that when I said septic system effluent is not
gray water and that what is actually gray water is allowed in some places for lawn
irrigation what I meant. When you irrigate a lawn with a system, how is it done in
almost all cases? How is it done with gray water? Sprinklers, of course.
i

> > Must smell like a shit
> >hole.
> Your language is so refined. It doesn't small at all.
> > Normal ones the leach field is 2 or 3 feet deep, it's not going to water
> >the grass, the roots are maybe 6 or 8 inches deep. Even if some water
> >made it's way up there, it's clearly not what one would call watering the lawn,
> There is a lot you don't know. It would help if you'd learn to accept
> that.
> >because it's going to be very localized not distributed across the lawn.
> Who said it was distributed across the lawn?

Just reasonable people that can follow the thread and the actual discussion.
When you irrigate a lawn, it's almost always done with a system that waters
the whole area, uniformly, not just your "finger strips" that would look very
strange.

I said it watered the
> lawn, not that it watered the whole lawn. "Very localized"? It waters
> about 1/4 to 1/3 of the lawn where the finger system is. Is that
> "very"?

That must look great. And if this is a conventional septic system, I would suspect
it's probably a sign of a failing septic field, where the effluent no longer is percolating
properly. Eventually the effluent winds up on the surface. But all this is irrelevant
to what the definition of gray water is and what actual gray water can be used for.

> >And the conversation was about gray water, which is used for irrigation in
> >the normal way.
> I think there are a lot of ways to do irrigation. What do you mean by
> "the normal way".

A way that an intelligent, rational person would do it. That sure isn't using
your "fingers" of a septic system that was likely either not done properly or
is failing so that effluent is going up instead of down.

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 9:03:39 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
> <hami...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
> >
> >Your leach field is too close to the surface.
> What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
> as close as it is?
> > It should be 18-36
> >inches deep.
> How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
> water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?
>
> If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
> would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
> What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
> of the yard isn't uniform?
> > Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
> >something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
> Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
> a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
> think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
> effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
> don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
> it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?

Good grief. I said that actual gray water is different from septic tank
effluent, that gray water can be used for irrigation of lawns and asked the
rhetorical question, what do you think would happen if septic tank effluent
was used? Everyone here understood it, except you. Gray water is used
like any other water, in any other lawn irrigation system, it's sprayed. What you
are talking about is some incidental greening of specific small areas of a
leach field, which may happen in some cases. The system was not designed
to do it, it just happens, it's not intentional irrigation. And it's for sure going
to happen in a system that isn't percolating properly, either because it was not
designed correctly or it's failing. Eventually effluent winds up on the surface
and it stinks up the neighborhood.

trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>How is it done with gray water? Sprinklers, of course

Along with suitable signage that states the water is non-potable.

--
Usenet: The world's first (and best) social network.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Dec 2022 06:53:39 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:31:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4
>> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:59:41 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> >> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
>> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> >> >> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 16 Dec 2022 08:23:56 -0800 (PST), trader_4
>> >> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:45:05 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
>> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 10:03 PM, Boris wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Snag <snag...@msn.com> wrote in news:KPQmL.16920$wfQc...@fx43.iad:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 8:01 PM, Boris wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>> I'm new to septic systems.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> In July 2021, I purchased a mountain vacation home that uses a septic
>> >> >> >> >>> system. The 1,000 gallon septic tank was pumped as a requirement
>> >> >> >> >>> before sale. Since then, I've been using Rid-x once a month. One
>> >> >> >> >>> person, my daughter occupies the home full time. We visit once a
>> >> >> >> >>> month or so.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I recently contacted the septice company that pumped the tank, and
>> >> >> >> >>> they told me they had a product for $20 that only needed to be used
>> >> >> >> >>> once a year, rather than the more expensive Rid-x monthly treatment.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I've read that some septic tank owners also treat their system once a
>> >> >> >> >>> year, with no problems.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Anyone have any comments/advice?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> TIA
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Flush a piece of raw chicken down the toilet and forget about
>> >> >> >> >> treatments . Once you have established the bacteria that break down
>> >> >> >> >> the products you flush
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Sounds like starter yeast when making bread...once started, it lasts
>> >> >> >> > perpetuates itself.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > , you only have to have it pumped every ten or
>> >> >> >> >> fifteen years (don't flush feminine hygiene products) . Depends on how
>> >> >> >> >> much sludge builds up in the tank . We just had a new 750 gallon
>> >> >> >> >> concrete tank installed (last Monday) because the steel tank was
>> >> >> >> >> rusting out - we got screwed on the old one . After 15 years it
>> >> >> >> >> actually had very little sludge . Out here the only thing that goes
>> >> >> >> >> into the tank is black water , gray water goes directly into a
>> >> >> >> >> separate drainage field , codes in your area might not allow that .
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I'm assuming by black water you mean toilet water, and grey water is all
>> >> >> >> > other water? I'll have to ask my county/septic man. I've tried to
>> >> >> >> > trace all the drainage pipes under the house, but once they dive into
>> >> >> >> > the earth, I loose them.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Gray water is the overflow from the sediment tank that goes to the drain
>> >> >> >> field.
>> >> >> I'm not sure what is meant by overflow from the sediment tank. The tank
>> >> >> is more than a sediment tank and normally output has not merely
>> >> >> overflowed. It stays a while and changes in some way.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >That definition is uniquely yours. The industry and regulators define gray
>> >> >> >water as water from sinks, showers, baths, washing machines, etc. ie water that
>> >> >> >is not full of human waste bacteria. Those regulators allow gray water to be
>> >> >> >used to irrigate lawns, what do you think would happen if they used your
>> >> >> >"gray water"?
>> >> >> Not arguing about the definition but at my home and many others,
>> >> >> whatever comes ouut of septic tank including toilet water also waters
>> >> >> the lawn.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Say what? By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
>> >> >your lawn?
>> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>> >
>> >So your septic tank effluent sprays out on the lawn?
>> You never said "spray" before. Your last verbs were "irrigate", "used",
>> and "using". Why did you change to spray? To pretend to win? Of course
>> it doesn't spray.
>
>I didn't change to spray. It was clear that when I said septic system effluent is not
>gray water and that what is actually gray water is allowed in some places for lawn
>irrigation what I meant.

It was anything but clear, silnce no one I've seen uses bathtub or
washing machine water to water their lawn unless it's gone through the
septic tank and mixed with the toilet water.

> When you irrigate a lawn with a system, how is it done in
>almost all cases? How is it done with gray water? Sprinklers, of course.
>i

When sprinklers are used it's with fresh water straight fronm the water
supply company. Not grey water or black water. So it's irrelevant.

>
>> > Must smell like a shit
>> >hole.
>> Your language is so refined. It doesn't small at all.
>> > Normal ones the leach field is 2 or 3 feet deep, it's not going to water
>> >the grass, the roots are maybe 6 or 8 inches deep. Even if some water
>> >made it's way up there, it's clearly not what one would call watering the lawn,
>> There is a lot you don't know. It would help if you'd learn to accept
>> that.
>> >because it's going to be very localized not distributed across the lawn.
>> Who said it was distributed across the lawn?
>
>Just reasonable people that can follow the thread and the actual discussion.
>When you irrigate a lawn, it's almost always done with a system that waters
>the whole area, uniformly, not just your "finger strips" that would look very
>strange.

I didn't ask you what the BEST way to irrigate a lawn is. You asked
"Those regulators allow gray water to be used to irrigate lawns, what do
you think would happen if they used your "gray water"?"? *His* grey
water was septic tank effluent.
>>
> I said it watered the
>> lawn, not that it watered the whole lawn. "Very localized"? It waters
>> about 1/4 to 1/3 of the lawn where the finger system is. Is that
>> "very"?
>
>That must look great.

Irrelevant.

>And if this is a conventional septic system, I would suspect

Your suspicions are worthless.

>it's probably a sign of a failing septic field, where the effluent no longer is percolating
>properly. Eventually the effluent winds up on the surface.

Eventually? In another 1000 years?

> But all this is irrelevant
>to what the definition of gray water is and what actual gray water can be used for.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Dec 2022 07:05:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 9:03:39 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
>> <hami...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
>> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
>> >
>> >Your leach field is too close to the surface.
>> What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
>> as close as it is?
>> > It should be 18-36
>> >inches deep.
>> How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
>> water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?
>>
>> If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
>> would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
>> What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
>> of the yard isn't uniform?
>> > Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
>> >something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
>> Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
>> a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
>> think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
>> effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
>> don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
>> it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?
>
>Good grief. I said that actual gray water is different from septic tank
>effluent, that gray water can be used for irrigation of lawns and asked the
>rhetorical question, what do you think would happen if septic tank effluent
>was used? Everyone here understood it, except you.

I understood the question but you don't understand the answer.

Gray water is used
>like any other water, in any other lawn irrigation system, it's sprayed.

We're not talking about irrigation. We're talking about septic systems.
Look at the subject line. And we're not talking about spraying. Find
me anyone who takes the bathtub water and sprays it on his yard or his
crops. You either believe in nonsense or you're trying to change the
topic.

> What you
>are talking about is some incidental greening of specific small areas of a
>leach field, which may happen in some cases.

So why did you ask "Those regulators allow gray water to be used to
irrigate lawns, what do you think would happen if they used your
"gray water"?"? *His* grey water was septic tank effluent.

> The system was not designed
>to do it, it just happens, it's not intentional irrigation.

Intention or not makes no difference.

> And it's for sure going
>to happen in a system that isn't percolating properly, either because it was not
>designed correctly or it's failing.

Now you're changing the subject again. We've been talking about
normally working systems, and I still am.

> Eventually effluent winds up on the surface
>and it stinks up the neighborhood.

Maybe in New Jersey :-) but no place else I've been.

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> writes:
>In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Dec 2022 06:53:39 -0800 (PST), trader_4
><trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>>I didn't change to spray. It was clear that when I said septic system effluent is not
>>gray water and that what is actually gray water is allowed in some places for lawn
>>irrigation what I meant.
>
>It was anything but clear, silnce no one I've seen uses bathtub or
>washing machine water to water their lawn unless it's gone through the
>septic tank and mixed with the toilet water.

That's an anecdote, not a fact. Indeed as trader_4 says, grey
water is, in some locales, allowed as irrigation water. Others
ban it. In the west, irrigation of lawns and landscaping for
commercial properties uses purple (reclaimed) water from the
treatment plant.

>
>> When you irrigate a lawn with a system, how is it done in
>>almost all cases? How is it done with gray water? Sprinklers, of course.
>>i
>
>When sprinklers are used it's with fresh water straight fronm the water
>supply company. Not grey water or black water. So it's irrelevant.

No, that's not true. Sprinklers can also be using reclaimed (purple)
water which is sourced from the local sewage treatment plant.

Should my leach field be wet?
If you notice puddles on the field, it is possible that a hydraulic
overload has caused the water to rise to the surface. With a clogged
leach field, the pressure is causing the water to rise. When discharged
in large quantities, wastewater can literally puddle on the ground.

Why is my leach field wet?
When solid waste builds up in the soil at the base of the leach field,
it prevents proper drainage and may result in wet spots in the field.
Additionally, a poorly functioning leach field can contaminate your
groundwater and put your family, pets, and livestock at risk.

https://www.bio-sol.ca/blog/en/how-to-unclog-your-leach-field/

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 03:03:53 -0000 (UTC), Boris posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote in news:KPQmL.16920$wfQc.9827@fx43.iad:
>
> > On 12/15/2022 8:01 PM, Boris wrote:
> >> I'm new to septic systems.
> >>
> >> In July 2021, I purchased a mountain vacation home that uses a septic
> >> system. The 1,000 gallon septic tank was pumped as a requirement
> >> before sale. Since then, I've been using Rid-x once a month. One
> >> person, my daughter occupies the home full time. We visit once a
> >> month or so.
> >>
> >> I recently contacted the septice company that pumped the tank, and
> >> they told me they had a product for $20 that only needed to be used
> >> once a year, rather than the more expensive Rid-x monthly treatment.
> >>
> >> I've read that some septic tank owners also treat their system once a
> >> year, with no problems.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any comments/advice?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >
> > Flush a piece of raw chicken down the toilet and forget about
> > treatments . Once you have established the bacteria that break down
> > the products you flush
>
> Sounds like starter yeast when making bread...once started, it lasts
> perpetuates itself.
>
> , you only have to have it pumped every ten or
> > fifteen years (don't flush feminine hygiene products) . Depends on how
> > much sludge builds up in the tank . We just had a new 750 gallon
> > concrete tank installed (last Monday) because the steel tank was
> > rusting out - we got screwed on the old one . After 15 years it
> > actually had very little sludge . Out here the only thing that goes
> > into the tank is black water , gray water goes directly into a
> > separate drainage field , codes in your area might not allow that .
>
> I'm assuming by black water you mean toilet water, and grey water is all
> other water? I'll have to ask my county/septic man. I've tried to
> trace all the drainage pipes under the house, but once they dive into
> the earth, I loose them.
>
> Thanks.

I know I'm coming in late so it may have been stated before... Only put down
what you can eat. No bones, wipes, grease, oil, etc. Do not use a garbage
disposal. It has to use bacteria to break up the waste. Anything not broken up
is sludge. Sludge drops to the bottom of the tank and builds up and the tank
has to be pumped. How often it is pumped is determined by your usage or the
municipality. If the sludge goes into the leach field it will 'kill' the leach
field. Expensive repair. If the municipality has a web site it should explain
all this. My municipality requires pumping every 3 years and water softener
water is required to be drained into the septic system.

--
Hiram

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of us to
digest...

>

> Say what? By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
> your lawn?

There are systems that chlorinate the effluent and sprays it on the ground. No
leach field.

--
Hiram

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:11:11 -0500, Frank posted for all of us to digest...

>
> If wetting the surface, it stinks. Maybe smells like the rest of
> Baltimore ;)

Corpse smell?

--
Hiram

On 12/22/2022 5:22 PM, Hiram T Schwantz wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of us to
> digest...
>
>>
>
>> Say what? By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
>> your lawn?
>
> There are systems that chlorinate the effluent and sprays it on the ground. No
> leach field.
>

A neighbor down the hill had that but it went into the stream that ran
in front of his house. He is in sewer now.

On 12/22/2022 6:48 PM, Frank wrote:
> On 12/22/2022 5:22 PM, Hiram T Schwantz wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of
>> us to
>> digest...
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Say what?  By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
>>> your lawn?
>>
>> There are systems that chlorinate the effluent and sprays it on the
>> ground. No
>> leach field.
>>
>
> A neighbor down the hill had that but it went into the stream that ran
> in front of his house.  He is in sewer now.

Threads like this one are good for me. Makes me realize paying about
$25 a month for sewer service is really a good deal.

In 56 years of home ownership (three houses) one time I did have to have
my drain snaked but it just went to the sewer.

>
>In 56 years of home ownership (three houses) one time I did have to have
>my drain snaked but it just went to the sewer.
>

+ 1
My 40 years - 3 homes - all on septic - no issues -
.. just sayin'
John T.

On 12/22/2022 7:10 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> In 56 years of home ownership (three houses) one time I did have to have
>> my drain snaked but it just went to the sewer.
>>
>
> + 1
> My 40 years - 3 homes - all on septic - no issues -
> .. just sayin'
> John T.
>

Lived in this house over 45 years with well and septic. I figure in the
long run I have saved money but trouble with either can be a big
expense. Like, new well and equipment cost me $9,000 four years ago.

Also rules can change like two neighbors that sold their houses had to
install septic effluent treatment tanks before fields. Apparently the
county made perk rules stricter. Too fast a perk could contaminate
ground water.

It may cost more but things are smoother with municipal water and sewer.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:57:31 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Dec 2022 06:53:39 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:31:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 10:59:41 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> >> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:49:55 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> >> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 2:21:40 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> >> >> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 16 Dec 2022 08:23:56 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> >> >> >> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:45:05 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 10:03 PM, Boris wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > Snag <snag...@msn.com> wrote in news:KPQmL.16920$wfQc...@fx43.iad:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/15/2022 8:01 PM, Boris wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>> I'm new to septic systems.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> In July 2021, I purchased a mountain vacation home that uses a septic
> >> >> >> >> >>> system. The 1,000 gallon septic tank was pumped as a requirement
> >> >> >> >> >>> before sale. Since then, I've been using Rid-x once a month. One
> >> >> >> >> >>> person, my daughter occupies the home full time. We visit once a
> >> >> >> >> >>> month or so.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> I recently contacted the septice company that pumped the tank, and
> >> >> >> >> >>> they told me they had a product for $20 that only needed to be used
> >> >> >> >> >>> once a year, rather than the more expensive Rid-x monthly treatment.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> I've read that some septic tank owners also treat their system once a
> >> >> >> >> >>> year, with no problems.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyone have any comments/advice?
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> TIA
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Flush a piece of raw chicken down the toilet and forget about
> >> >> >> >> >> treatments . Once you have established the bacteria that break down
> >> >> >> >> >> the products you flush
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Sounds like starter yeast when making bread...once started, it lasts
> >> >> >> >> > perpetuates itself.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > , you only have to have it pumped every ten or
> >> >> >> >> >> fifteen years (don't flush feminine hygiene products) . Depends on how
> >> >> >> >> >> much sludge builds up in the tank . We just had a new 750 gallon
> >> >> >> >> >> concrete tank installed (last Monday) because the steel tank was
> >> >> >> >> >> rusting out - we got screwed on the old one . After 15 years it
> >> >> >> >> >> actually had very little sludge . Out here the only thing that goes
> >> >> >> >> >> into the tank is black water , gray water goes directly into a
> >> >> >> >> >> separate drainage field , codes in your area might not allow that .
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I'm assuming by black water you mean toilet water, and grey water is all
> >> >> >> >> > other water? I'll have to ask my county/septic man. I've tried to
> >> >> >> >> > trace all the drainage pipes under the house, but once they dive into
> >> >> >> >> > the earth, I loose them.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Thanks.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Gray water is the overflow from the sediment tank that goes to the drain
> >> >> >> >> field.
> >> >> >> I'm not sure what is meant by overflow from the sediment tank. The tank
> >> >> >> is more than a sediment tank and normally output has not merely
> >> >> >> overflowed. It stays a while and changes in some way.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >That definition is uniquely yours. The industry and regulators define gray
> >> >> >> >water as water from sinks, showers, baths, washing machines, etc. ie water that
> >> >> >> >is not full of human waste bacteria. Those regulators allow gray water to be
> >> >> >> >used to irrigate lawns, what do you think would happen if they used your
> >> >> >> >"gray water"?
> >> >> >> Not arguing about the definition but at my home and many others,
> >> >> >> whatever comes ouut of septic tank including toilet water also waters
> >> >> >> the lawn.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Say what? By what system are you using septic tank effluent to water
> >> >> >your lawn?
> >> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
> >> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
> >> >
> >> >So your septic tank effluent sprays out on the lawn?
> >> You never said "spray" before. Your last verbs were "irrigate", "used",
> >> and "using". Why did you change to spray? To pretend to win? Of course
> >> it doesn't spray.
> >
> >I didn't change to spray. It was clear that when I said septic system effluent is not
> >gray water and that what is actually gray water is allowed in some places for lawn
> >irrigation what I meant.
> It was anything but clear, silnce no one I've seen uses bathtub or
> washing machine water to water their lawn unless it's gone through the
> septic tank and mixed with the toilet water.

You don't have to see it for it to exist. We were talking about gray water,
you could look it up.

> > When you irrigate a lawn with a system, how is it done in
> >almost all cases? How is it done with gray water? Sprinklers, of course.
> >i
> When sprinklers are used it's with fresh water straight fronm the water
> supply company. Not grey water or black water. So it's irrelevant.

Wrong again, you just keep digging a deeper hole. And besides that,
my whole point was that gray water and septic effluent are two very
different things, that the former can be used for irrigation. Got it now?

> >
> >> > Must smell like a shit
> >> >hole.
> >> Your language is so refined. It doesn't small at all.
> >> > Normal ones the leach field is 2 or 3 feet deep, it's not going to water
> >> >the grass, the roots are maybe 6 or 8 inches deep. Even if some water
> >> >made it's way up there, it's clearly not what one would call watering the lawn,
> >> There is a lot you don't know. It would help if you'd learn to accept
> >> that.
> >> >because it's going to be very localized not distributed across the lawn.
> >> Who said it was distributed across the lawn?
> >
> >Just reasonable people that can follow the thread and the actual discussion.
> >When you irrigate a lawn, it's almost always done with a system that waters
> >the whole area, uniformly, not just your "finger strips" that would look very
> >strange.
> I didn't ask you what the BEST way to irrigate a lawn is. You asked
> "Those regulators allow gray water to be used to irrigate lawns, what do
> you think would happen if they used your "gray water"?"? *His* grey
> water was septic tank effluent.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 12:58:02 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 21 Dec 2022 07:05:23 -0800 (PST), trader_4
> <tra...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 9:03:39 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
> >> In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:44:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
> >> <hami...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 2022-12-19, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> By the standard system. Where do you think it goes? If we had a sewer
> >> >> system we wouldn't need a septic tank in the first place.
> >> >
> >> >Your leach field is too close to the surface.
> >> What makes it too close? That is, what problem is caused by its being
> >> as close as it is?
> >> > It should be 18-36
> >> >inches deep.
> >> How can you be sure it wasn't? Why wouldn't capillary action bring the
> >> water from the finger system up high enough to reach the roots?
> >>
> >> If it were so deep that the grass got none of it, then none of our grass
> >> would be green. This brings up my first question, what is the problem?
> >> What's wrong with some of the grass getting water? Just that the color
> >> of the yard isn't uniform?
> >> > Grass roots rarely grow that deep (YMMV is you grow
> >> >something like buffalo grass or bermudagrass).
> >> Going back a step. You don't quote this so I guess you were not taking
> >> a position, which is fine of course, but trader asked "...what do you
> >> think would happen if they used your "gray water"?" That is, septic tank
> >> effluent. I infer that he's saying there would be a problem, but we
> >> don't know what the problem is. Some of my grass is green and some of
> >> it is pale, faded green? Is that the problem?
> >
> >Good grief. I said that actual gray water is different from septic tank
> >effluent, that gray water can be used for irrigation of lawns and asked the
> >rhetorical question, what do you think would happen if septic tank effluent
> >was used? Everyone here understood it, except you.
> I understood the question but you don't understand the answer.
> Gray water is used
> >like any other water, in any other lawn irrigation system, it's sprayed.
> We're not talking about irrigation. We're talking about septic systems.
> Look at the subject line. And we're not talking about spraying. Find
> me anyone who takes the bathtub water and sprays it on his yard or his
> crops. You either believe in nonsense or you're trying to change the
> topic.

You just keep getting more foolish in each post. Try to follow. Yes, the thread was
about septic systems. But Frank made an error, claiming that septic system effluent
is gray water. To illustrate the difference, I simply pointed out that gray water can
be used for irrigation, like lawn irrigation, while septic effluent cannot. Everyone
else understood.

> > What you
> >are talking about is some incidental greening of specific small areas of a
> >leach field, which may happen in some cases.
> So why did you ask "Those regulators allow gray water to be used to
> irrigate lawns, what do you think would happen if they used your
> "gray water"?"? *His* grey water was septic tank effluent.

Well duh? That was precisely my point. You obviously still don't get it.

> > The system was not designed
> >to do it, it just happens, it's not intentional irrigation.
> Intention or not makes no difference.
> > And it's for sure going
> >to happen in a system that isn't percolating properly, either because it was not
> >designed correctly or it's failing.
> Now you're changing the subject again. We've been talking about
> normally working systems, and I still am.
> > Eventually effluent winds up on the surface
> >and it stinks up the neighborhood.
> Maybe in New Jersey :-) but no place else I've been.

Right, so now effluent from a failing septic system doesn't wind up on
the surface, stinking up the neighborhood? You're hole of ignorance
continues to grow deeper.

On 12/22/22 16:19, Hiram T Schwantz wrote:

snip]

> I know I'm coming in late so it may have been stated before... Only put down
> what you can eat. No bones, wipes, grease, oil, etc.

We used to have a rental house with a septic tank. Once, when it was
cleaned out if was full of condoms.

> Do not use a garbage
> disposal. It has to use bacteria to break up the waste. Anything not broken up
> is sludge. Sludge drops to the bottom of the tank and builds up and the tank
> has to be pumped. How often it is pumped is determined by your usage or the
> municipality. If the sludge goes into the leach field it will 'kill' the leach
> field. Expensive repair. If the municipality has a web site it should explain
> all this. My municipality requires pumping every 3 years and water softener
> water is required to be drained into the septic system.

--
2 days until the winter celebration (Sunday, December 25, 2022 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient
capital to form a corporation." -- Clarence Darrow

On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:59:46 -0600, Mark Lloyd posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> We used to have a rental house with a septic tank. Once, when it was
> cleaned out if was full of condoms.
>

Safe septic? Pump'n away?

--
Hiram