In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
<6a1c750eba3a416bd126d29ff243913a@example.com> wrote:

>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?

BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.

So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
where to look for matching shingles. If I'd had the brand and they still
had the color I could have bought the stuff myself and any roofer would
have used what I gave him. Instead I depended on his colors, none of
which were the same. I chose tan again, for patching right at the crest
of the roof, on my two story house, and it doesn't match but I have
never noticed it. Even when I look at it, if there is any change in
color from one part to the next, it looks like some visual effect of the
sunlight.

I can't promise this for you. Save some shingles for repairs later, and
save the make and color.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:31:49 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
><6a1c750eba3a416bd126d29ff243913a@example.com> wrote:
>
>>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?
>
>BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
>me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
>half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
>even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.
>
>So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
>where to look for matching shingles.

20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof
has probably been replaced twice in that time. The roof on my last house
lasted 8 years. It was doing, not great, OK until a certain hail storm
came through.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:36:26 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:31:49 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
> wrote:
> >In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
> ><6a1c750eba3a416b...@example.com> wrote:
> >
> >>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?
> >
> >BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
> >me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
> >half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
> >even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.
> >
> >So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
> >where to look for matching shingles.
> 20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof
> has probably been replaced twice in that time. The roof on my last house
> lasted 8 years. It was doing, not great, OK until a certain hail storm
> came through.

If you are replacing roofs every 10 years, you should let
someone else shop roofs for you. 8 years and your roof
was just “OK”? What did they use, roll roofing?

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
<comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:36:26 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:31:49 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>> wrote:
>> >In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
>> ><6a1c750eba3a416b...@example.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?
>> >
>> >BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
>> >me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
>> >half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
>> >even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.
>> >
>> >So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
>> >where to look for matching shingles.
>> 20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof
>> has probably been replaced twice in that time. The roof on my last house
>> lasted 8 years. It was doing, not great, OK until a certain hail storm
>> came through.
>
>If you are replacing roofs every 10 years, you should let
>someone else shop roofs for you.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. On my last two houses, I had to
replace the roofs that were on the houses when I bought them. I've never
had to replace a roof that I bought, but that's because I don't stay in
one place long enough.

In both cases, I replaced the damaged roofs with GAF 30/yr asphalt
shingles, which is what everyone else in those neighborhoods used and
what the HOA mandated. (Most of the houses in both of those
neighborhoods were getting new roofs as a result of a storm that passed
through.) I would expect to get 10-12 years from those 30/yr shingles,
but I wasn't there long enough to find out. What I do know, though, is
that the mfr's warranty is no match for hail and tornadoes. One of my
neighbors in San Antonio was mad because he had to replace his roof
twice in the same year, (two insurance deductibles), but mother nature
doesn't take that into consideration.

Where I live now, we haven't had a tornado and our hail has been
manageable, but we took a fairly direct hit from a hurricane last year
(115-125mph winds) and our then-two-year-old roof only lost a few
shingles, mostly up along the ridge vent. I talked to a couple of
roofing contractors at the time, although I ended up not using them, and
they said a typical asphalt roof gets replaced in 8-10 years here, so
that's the same as my last two locations.

Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?

If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
when I sell.

>
>Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>
>If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
>use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>when I sell.

I'd guess that 20 years is typical here in sw Ontario -
that's a decent asphalt shingle, properly installed over
a properly ventilated structure, and not trying to squeeze
another too-many years out of them ..
When I last had my house re-shingled, - for the quote -
the roofer brought 3 "qualities" samples to show me -
I think they were 15 year 25 year and 30 year ish
and he said that he will not install the cheapest one ever
on a home - it was obvious why - very thin & flimsy.
I doubt that I'll get 30 years from my 30 year shingles
but I sure expect to get 20 years ..
John T.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:45:59 -0400,
hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>
>>
>>Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>>than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>>asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>>
>>If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>>power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>>think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
>>use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>>when I sell.
>
> I'd guess that 20 years is typical here in sw Ontario -
>that's a decent asphalt shingle, properly installed over
>a properly ventilated structure, and not trying to squeeze
>another too-many years out of them ..
> When I last had my house re-shingled, - for the quote -
> the roofer brought 3 "qualities" samples to show me -
> I think they were 15 year 25 year and 30 year ish
>and he said that he will not install the cheapest one ever
>on a home - it was obvious why - very thin & flimsy.
> I doubt that I'll get 30 years from my 30 year shingles
>but I sure expect to get 20 years ..
> John T.

IN my case, the front of the house faces north and the 3-tab asphalt?
shingles looked fine. The rear faces sounth but I can't back up far
enough to see the roof. If I go farther, I'm in the stream bed and 6
feet lower Hmmm. Maybe I could see from there, I've not tried.

What I did do somewhere over the years is attach a usb camera to an
extension pole -- no wait, t hat was to see what was in a gutter, and it
didn't work For the roof I thought abiut buying a drone or a
quadcopter. It would be fun to have anyhow.

Though I couldn't see it, the southern facing half of the roof was bad,
curling up quite a bit, though I t hink it was years more than 20.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:58:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:45:59 -0400,
>hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>>>than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>>>asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>>>
>>>If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>>>power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>>>think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
>>>use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>>>when I sell.
>>
>> I'd guess that 20 years is typical here in sw Ontario -
>>that's a decent asphalt shingle, properly installed over
>>a properly ventilated structure, and not trying to squeeze
>>another too-many years out of them ..
>> When I last had my house re-shingled, - for the quote -
>> the roofer brought 3 "qualities" samples to show me -
>> I think they were 15 year 25 year and 30 year ish
>>and he said that he will not install the cheapest one ever
>>on a home - it was obvious why - very thin & flimsy.
>> I doubt that I'll get 30 years from my 30 year shingles
>>but I sure expect to get 20 years ..
>> John T.
>
>IN my case, the front of the house faces north and the 3-tab asphalt?
>shingles looked fine. The rear faces sounth but I can't back up far
>enough to see the roof.
>Though I couldn't see it, the southern facing half of the roof was bad,
>curling up quite a bit, though I t hink it was years more than 20.
>

My brother's house was just like that - north side looked OK -
south side shingles were down to the fibers !
I climbed up for a closer look-see
and had to ask for the ladder to be moved -
- to the good north side - to make it down safely.
Don't wait too long to call for repairs !
John T.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:45:59 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

>
>>
>>Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>>than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>>asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>>
>>If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>>power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>>think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
>>use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>>when I sell.
>
> I'd guess that 20 years is typical here in sw Ontario -
>that's a decent asphalt shingle, properly installed over
>a properly ventilated structure, and not trying to squeeze
>another too-many years out of them ..
> When I last had my house re-shingled, - for the quote -
> the roofer brought 3 "qualities" samples to show me -
> I think they were 15 year 25 year and 30 year ish
>and he said that he will not install the cheapest one ever
>on a home - it was obvious why - very thin & flimsy.
> I doubt that I'll get 30 years from my 30 year shingles
>but I sure expect to get 20 years ..
> John T.

I'm in northern Illinois. I had my roof shingled in 2001 and I can't see a difference from
when they did it. It's a hip roof. GAF Timberline. I expect to get 30 years, but won't
bet on it. Over the years I've seen very little amounts of rock granules in the gutters.
The main cause of shingle deterioration is UV, and that's a product of losing their rock
granules. Driving rain, hail and high winds cause most of it. Very little of that here.

On 9/19/2022 1:35 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:45:59 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>>> than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>>> asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>>>
>>> If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>>> power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>>> think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof. We're not allowed to
>>> use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>>> when I sell.
>>
>> I'd guess that 20 years is typical here in sw Ontario -
>> that's a decent asphalt shingle, properly installed over
>> a properly ventilated structure, and not trying to squeeze
>> another too-many years out of them ..
>> When I last had my house re-shingled, - for the quote -
>> the roofer brought 3 "qualities" samples to show me -
>> I think they were 15 year 25 year and 30 year ish
>> and he said that he will not install the cheapest one ever
>> on a home - it was obvious why - very thin & flimsy.
>> I doubt that I'll get 30 years from my 30 year shingles
>> but I sure expect to get 20 years ..
>> John T.
>
> I'm in northern Illinois. I had my roof shingled in 2001 and I can't see a difference from
> when they did it. It's a hip roof. GAF Timberline. I expect to get 30 years, but won't
> bet on it. Over the years I've seen very little amounts of rock granules in the gutters.
> The main cause of shingle deterioration is UV, and that's a product of losing their rock
> granules. Driving rain, hail and high winds cause most of it. Very little of that here.
>

When I bought my house I had a roofer inspect the roof, and was told
that they had not made those shingles in 50 years. Several years later
they needed replacement.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 9:43:00 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:36:26 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:31:49 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
> >> ><6a1c750eba3a416b...@example.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?
> >> >
> >> >BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
> >> >me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
> >> >half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
> >> >even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.
> >> >
> >> >So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
> >> >where to look for matching shingles.
> >> 20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof
> >> has probably been replaced twice in that time. The roof on my last house
> >> lasted 8 years. It was doing, not great, OK until a certain hail storm
> >> came through.
> >
> >If you are replacing roofs every 10 years, you should let
> >someone else shop roofs for you.
> I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I'm getting at this:

"20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof has
probably been replaced twice in that time."

20 divided by "twice" is 10. That was your claim.

I call BS on that.

> On my last two houses, I had to
> replace the roofs that were on the houses when I bought them. I've never
> had to replace a roof that I bought, but that's because I don't stay in
> one place long enough.
>
> In both cases, I replaced the damaged roofs with GAF 30/yr asphalt
> shingles, which is what everyone else in those neighborhoods used and
> what the HOA mandated. (Most of the houses in both of those
> neighborhoods were getting new roofs as a result of a storm that passed
> through.) I would expect to get 10-12 years from those 30/yr shingles,
> but I wasn't there long enough to find out. What I do know, though, is
> that the mfr's warranty is no match for hail and tornadoes. One of my
> neighbors in San Antonio was mad because he had to replace his roof
> twice in the same year, (two insurance deductibles), but mother nature
> doesn't take that into consideration.
>
> Where I live now, we haven't had a tornado and our hail has been
> manageable, but we took a fairly direct hit from a hurricane last year
> (115-125mph winds) and our then-two-year-old roof only lost a few
> shingles, mostly up along the ridge vent. I talked to a couple of
> roofing contractors at the time, although I ended up not using them, and
> they said a typical asphalt roof gets replaced in 8-10 years here, so
> that's the same as my last two locations.
>
> Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
> than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
> asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>
> If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
> power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
> think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof.

And yet you've never lived anywhere long enough to replace your own roof.
So how do you know how long other people's roofs have lasted? You can't
have seen anyone replace their roof and then do it again, because you're
never around long enough. Where are you getting the information about
roofs that supports your "the entire roof has probably been replaced twice
in that time" (20 years) statement?

> We're not allowed to
> use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
> when I sell.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2022 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
<comawhiteknuckles@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 9:43:00 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Marilyn Manson
>> <comawhit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:36:26 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:31:49 -0400, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 18 Sep 2022 02:45:02 +0000, Api D.
>> >> ><6a1c750eba3a416b...@example.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>We are looking for a good, not-ugly, light-color shingle for our chocolate brown house.?
>> >> >
>> >> >BTW, I used tan on my house about 20 years ago and it was a bad time for
>> >> >me, and I failed to save the brand or color of the shingles. I did save
>> >> >half a pack but I left them outside where they got sort of ruined, and
>> >> >even when I threw them away, I didn't save the brand or color.
>> >> >
>> >> >So 20 years later when there was a leak into the attic, I didn't know
>> >> >where to look for matching shingles.
>> >> 20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof
>> >> has probably been replaced twice in that time. The roof on my last house
>> >> lasted 8 years. It was doing, not great, OK until a certain hail storm
>> >> came through.
>> >
>> >If you are replacing roofs every 10 years, you should let
>> >someone else shop roofs for you.
>> I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>
>I'm getting at this:
>
>"20 years later and you're looking for matching shingles? The entire roof has
>probably been replaced twice in that time."
>
>20 divided by "twice" is 10. That was your claim.
>
>I call BS on that.

I call BS on your claim of BS. I probably know my personal experience
better than you think you do.

>> On my last two houses, I had to
>> replace the roofs that were on the houses when I bought them. I've never
>> had to replace a roof that I bought, but that's because I don't stay in
>> one place long enough.
>>
>> In both cases, I replaced the damaged roofs with GAF 30/yr asphalt
>> shingles, which is what everyone else in those neighborhoods used and
>> what the HOA mandated. (Most of the houses in both of those
>> neighborhoods were getting new roofs as a result of a storm that passed
>> through.) I would expect to get 10-12 years from those 30/yr shingles,
>> but I wasn't there long enough to find out. What I do know, though, is
>> that the mfr's warranty is no match for hail and tornadoes. One of my
>> neighbors in San Antonio was mad because he had to replace his roof
>> twice in the same year, (two insurance deductibles), but mother nature
>> doesn't take that into consideration.
>>
>> Where I live now, we haven't had a tornado and our hail has been
>> manageable, but we took a fairly direct hit from a hurricane last year
>> (115-125mph winds) and our then-two-year-old roof only lost a few
>> shingles, mostly up along the ridge vent. I talked to a couple of
>> roofing contractors at the time, although I ended up not using them, and
>> they said a typical asphalt roof gets replaced in 8-10 years here, so
>> that's the same as my last two locations.
>>
>> Judging from your reply, you probably get a longer life from your roof
>> than we do in Kansas, Texas, and now MS. Or maybe you're not using
>> asphalt shingles. Composite, perhaps? Steel roof?
>>
>> If you and micky are still using the same roof after 20 years, more
>> power to you. I've lived in over a dozen parts of the US and I don't
>> think I've ever seen that except from a steel roof.
>
>And yet you've never lived anywhere long enough to replace your own roof.

Correct. As I explained above, the two roofs that I replaced were in
place when I bought the houses. Both were installed by the builder.

You sound curious, so here's some additional detail.

Kansas City - house built in 1996, we purchased it with the original
roof in 2001 and replaced the roof in 2005.

San Antonio - house built in 2006, we purchased it with the original
roof in 2013 and replaced the roof in 2018.

If you're good at math, you'll notice that I exaggerated a bit when I
said I get 10 years from a roof. I didn't mean to mislead you. It's
actually less than that, and as I said, the primary culprit in those two
cases was weather.

>So how do you know how long other people's roofs have lasted?

I didn't mean to say anything about anyone else's roof, except of course
in my first reply where I wondered if a 20-y/o roof had been replaced
twice by now. In this part of the thread, I'm talking about roofs on my
own homes. I know how long those roofs lasted because I know when the
houses were built, I know their histories, and I know when I replaced
the roofs.

>You can't
>have seen anyone replace their roof and then do it again, because you're
>never around long enough.

Please reconsider. Like I said, one of my neighbors in San Antonio
replaced his roof twice in the same year, once in early spring and again
in late summer or early fall. I lived in SA for about 6 years, including
the year in question.

>Where are you getting the information about
>roofs that supports your "the entire roof has probably been replaced twice
>in that time" (20 years) statement?

From my personal experience. I explained that, in detail, in the post to
which you replied. It's still quoted above.

>> We're not allowed to
>> use those, but I wouldn't anyway because I wouldn't get the money back
>> when I sell.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:10:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
<none@none.invalid> wrote:

>
>>I call BS on that.
>
>I call BS on your claim of BS. I probably know my personal experience
>better than you think you do.

WADR, Jim, I don't think you understand the internet. The person who
posts lasts knows the most about a topic, even including the personal
lives of those who posted before him. There are "web bugs" and
cell-phone hacks all over the place that allow many of us to know
everything, even when the phone and computer are turned off. It's the
price we pay for free international phone calls, for paying our bills
online, ordering groceries online, etc. IOW, for progress. Right now,
I can tell you what you're having for lunch.

On Fri, 07 Oct 2022 12:34:06 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:10:56 -0500, Jim Joyce
><none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>>I call BS on that.
>>
>>I call BS on your claim of BS. I probably know my personal experience
>>better than you think you do.
>
>WADR, Jim, I don't think you understand the internet. The person who
>posts lasts knows the most about a topic, even including the personal
>lives of those who posted before him. There are "web bugs" and
>cell-phone hacks all over the place that allow many of us to know
>everything, even when the phone and computer are turned off. It's the
>price we pay for free international phone calls, for paying our bills
>online, ordering groceries online, etc. IOW, for progress. Right now,
>I can tell you what you're having for lunch.

I stand corrected. (And it was tuna.)