Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
parents and gun owners.

https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916

And the list goes on
https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting

On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
> parents and gun owners.
>
> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
>
>
> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
>
>
> And the list goes on
> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting

Just guns?

No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?

And the other means of tragic killing do not
matter? Only things that could toss out
your beloved Dictatorship of the Proletariat?

I am sensing an agenda here.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
> > parents and gun owners.
> >
> > https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
> >
> >
> > https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
> >
> >
> > And the list goes on
> > https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
> Just guns?
>
> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
>

We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less. Following
your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns, should be
experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.

On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
>>> parents and gun owners.
>>>
>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
>>>
>>>
>>> And the list goes on
>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
>> Just guns?
>>
>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
>>
>
> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less. Following
> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns, should be
> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
>
>
>
Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.

The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.

T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.

On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
>>>> parents and gun owners.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the list goes on
>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
>>> Just guns?
>>>
>>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
>>>
>>
>> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
>> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
>> Following
>> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
>> should be
>> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
>>
>>
>>
> Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
> his father would not be arrested.  Oh, that was stupidity too.
>
> The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
> people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
>
> T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
> more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
>

People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
Dictatorship of the Proletariat?

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 6:13:52 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
> >>>> parents and gun owners.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And the list goes on
> >>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
> >>> Just guns?
> >>>
> >>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
> >>>
> >>
> >> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
> >> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
> >> Following
> >> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
> >> should be
> >> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
> > his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.
> >
> > The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
> > people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
> >
> > T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
> > more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
> >
> People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
> LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
>
> Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
> Dictatorship of the Proletariat?

Reasonable people would conclude that the cost/benefit analysis of people
having cars versus the same analysis for guns puts cars ahead by orders of
magnitude. And at least for cars there are licensing requirements and testing.

On 7/23/22 9:29 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 6:13:52 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>> On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
>>>>>> parents and gun owners.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the list goes on
>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
>>>>> Just guns?
>>>>>
>>>>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
>>>> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
>>>> Following
>>>> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
>>>> should be
>>>> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
>>> his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.
>>>
>>> The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
>>> people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
>>>
>>> T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
>>> more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
>>>
>> People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
>> LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
>>
>> Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
>> Dictatorship of the Proletariat?
>
> Reasonable people would conclude that the cost/benefit analysis of people
> having cars versus the same analysis for guns puts cars ahead by orders of
> magnitude. And at least for cars there are licensing requirements and testing.

I read it over carefully several times-- but just didn't see anything
about cars in the US Constitution...

On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 6:38:40 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/23/22 9:29 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 6:13:52 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >> On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
> >>>>>> parents and gun owners.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And the list goes on
> >>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
> >>>>> Just guns?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
> >>>> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
> >>>> Following
> >>>> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
> >>>> should be
> >>>> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
> >>> his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.
> >>>
> >>> The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
> >>> people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
> >>>
> >>> T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
> >>> more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
> >>>
> >> People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
> >> LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
> >>
> >> Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
> >> Dictatorship of the Proletariat?
> >
> > Reasonable people would conclude that the cost/benefit analysis of people
> > having cars versus the same analysis for guns puts cars ahead by orders of
> > magnitude. And at least for cars there are licensing requirements and testing.
> I read it over carefully several times-- but just didn't see anything
> about cars in the US Constitution...

That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles compared to guns.
Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year, we would not
have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so much benefit there,
obviously.

In article <0929b965-4da1-4f34-9a8c-82ebe94da656n@googlegroups.com>,
trader4@optonline.net says...
>
> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles compared to guns.
> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year, we would not
> have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so much benefit there,
> obviously.
>
>

It does keep thousands of people employed. Think of all the law
enforcement officers, judges, lawyers, prisons and others. Sometimes I
believe that the powers of the country do not want to stop crime as it
keeps many more employed.

On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 6:38:40 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 7/23/22 9:29 AM, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 6:13:52 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>> On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>> On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
>>>>>>>> parents and gun owners.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the list goes on
>>>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
>>>>>>> Just guns?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
>>>>>> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
>>>>>> Following
>>>>>> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
>>>>> his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.
>>>>>
>>>>> The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
>>>>> people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
>>>>>
>>>>> T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
>>>>> more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
>>>>>
>>>> People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
>>>> LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
>>>>
>>>> Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
>>>> Dictatorship of the Proletariat?
>>>
>>> Reasonable people would conclude that the cost/benefit analysis of people
>>> having cars versus the same analysis for guns puts cars ahead by orders of
>>> magnitude. And at least for cars there are licensing requirements and testing.
>> I read it over carefully several times-- but just didn't see anything
>> about cars in the US Constitution...
>
> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles compared to guns.
> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year, we would not
> have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so much benefit there,
> obviously.
>
Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to a
shown firearm.

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 5:00:50 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 6:38:40 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
> >> On 7/23/22 9:29 AM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 6:13:52 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >>>> On 7/22/22 12:16, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/22/2022 12:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:53:15 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 7/20/22 09:25, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Guns don't kill people stupid people do. Not to mention irresponsible
> >>>>>>>> parents and gun owners.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/manatee-county/15-year-old-playing-with-gun-shoots-friend-in-head-manatee-deputies-say/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bride-in-iran-killed-by-stray-bullet-during-celebratory-gunfire-at-wedding-3175916
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And the list goes on
> >>>>>>>> https://www.ndtv.com/topic/florida-shooting
> >>>>>>> Just guns?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No mention of the countless lvies saves by guns?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We can count the number of lives saved by guns and it's a lot less that
> >>>>>> all the lives lost to guns. probably an order of magnitude less.
> >>>>>> Following
> >>>>>> your logic, countries that have strict gun laws, far fewer guns,
> >>>>>> should be
> >>>>>> experiencing terrible homicides, but they are not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps T may mean how the four year old in Utah was shooting at cops so
> >>>>> his father would not be arrested. Oh, that was stupidity too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The guns in some cases may have been legal but the point is, too many
> >>>>> people do stupid things and more guns will bring more deaths.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> T brings up this argument frequently as it is his only justification for
> >>>>> more guns and lax laws but the numbers still get him.
> >>>>>
> >>>> People do a lot of stupid things with cars too.
> >>>> LET'S OUTLAW CARS!
> >>>>
> >>>> Wait?? Can cars be used to overthrow the
> >>>> Dictatorship of the Proletariat?
> >>>
> >>> Reasonable people would conclude that the cost/benefit analysis of people
> >>> having cars versus the same analysis for guns puts cars ahead by orders of
> >>> magnitude. And at least for cars there are licensing requirements and testing.
> >> I read it over carefully several times-- but just didn't see anything
> >> about cars in the US Constitution...
> >
> > That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles compared to guns.
> > Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year, we would not
> > have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so much benefit there,
> > obviously.
> >
> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to a
> shown firearm.

Your own one case is also irrelevant in the overall cost benefit analysis of vehicles
and vehicle deaths versus guns and gun deaths. But keep trying.

On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:

>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>> compared to guns.
>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year,
>> we would not
>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so much
>> benefit there,
>> obviously.
>>
> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to a
> shown firearm.
>

Good that you had the right outcome. Unfortunately, the odds are very
much against that. Most every day the new has something about a gunman
killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.

The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.

On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>
>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>> compared to guns.
>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>> year, we would not
>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>> much benefit there,
>>> obviously.
>>>
>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to
>> a shown firearm.
>>
>
> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are very
> much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a gunman
> killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>
> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.

And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they want
to threaten him.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 18:59:54 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>
>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>> compared to guns.
>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a year,
>>> we would not
>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so much
>>> benefit there,
>>> obviously.
>>>
>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to a
>> shown firearm.
>>
>
>Good that you had the right outcome. Unfortunately, the odds are very
>much against that. Most every day the new has something about a gunman
>killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>
>The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
And if you carry - and in particular SHOW a gun during an altercation
you damned well better be ready to use it - becauae if the other guy
is also armed and thinks YOU are a threat, the one who shoots first
survives. You shoot first and he was NOT armed??? Now YOU are the
criminal (not innocent) killer. He shoots first and you are dead -
where you may well have NOT been shot had you not shown your gun.

On 7/24/22 15:59, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>
>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>> compared to guns.
>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>> year, we would not
>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>> much benefit there,
>>> obviously.
>>>
>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to
>> a shown firearm.
>>
>
> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are very
> much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a gunman
> killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>
> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
Ed, American Pravda has an agenda. That is why
you never hear the rest of the story. Save saved
to lives lost is around 17 to 1

On 7/24/22 16:44, Bob F wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>>> compared to guns.
>>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>>> year, we would not
>>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>>> much benefit there,
>>>> obviously.
>>>>
>>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
>>> to a shown firearm.
>>>
>>
>> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are very
>> much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a
>> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>>
>> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
>
> And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they want
> to threaten him.

Bob, It was a concealed weapon.
The purpose of a concealed weapon" is to give the
bad guy(s) the opportunity to make an uninformed
decision that has serious consequences to the
bad gay.

On 7/24/22 7:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>>> compared to guns.
>>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>>> year, we would not
>>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>>> much benefit there,
>>>> obviously.
>>>>
>>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
>>> to a shown firearm.
>>>
>>
>> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are very
>> much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a
>> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>>
>> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
>
> And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they want
> to threaten him.

My hard-and-fast rule, Bob-O, is never to go anyplace with a gun that I
wouldn't feel safe visiting without one.

Sometimes though, s*** happens. Two especially memorable incidents
occurred back when I was a young buck.

The first was as I was leaving my downtown office in a large city one
winter's eve after dark. Heading toward the parking lot, I was greeted
by a couple of hoodie-wearing teenagers. As the conversation unfolded,
it became increasingly clear that they were not selling raffle tickets
for their church bazaar, nor did just they want me to buy a couple.

A second situation occurred the following spring on a sunny Sunday
afternoon in a wilderness area about 60 miles north of said city.

A particularly comely young lady and I had spread a blanket in an open
field and were enjoying the picnic lunch we had transported there in the
saddlebags of my motorcycle.

Three unbathed local gents-- two of whom appeared to be in serious need
of dental care-- arrived in a ratty old pickup truck. It began to circle
our picnic site while they shouted favorable comments (in a strong
regional accent) about the young lady and what activities they might
enjoy engaging in with her.

The suddenly-revealed presence of my Colt .45 ACP 1911 Government Model
quickly and quietly ended both incidents-- without further incident, I
might add...

On 7/25/2022 6:36 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/24/22 7:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
>> On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>>>> compared to guns.
>>>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>>>> year, we would not
>>>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>>>> much benefit there,
>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>
>>>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>>>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
>>>> to a shown firearm.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are
>>> very much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a
>>> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>>>
>>> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
>>
>> And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they
>> want to threaten him.
>
> My hard-and-fast rule, Bob-O, is never to go anyplace with a gun that I
> wouldn't feel safe visiting without one.
>
> Sometimes though, s*** happens. Two especially memorable incidents
> occurred back when I was a young buck.
>
> The first was as I was leaving my downtown office in a large city one
> winter's eve after dark. Heading toward the parking lot, I was greeted
> by a couple of hoodie-wearing teenagers. As the conversation unfolded,
> it became increasingly clear that they were not selling raffle tickets
> for their church bazaar, nor did just they want me to buy a couple.
>
> A second situation occurred the following spring on a sunny Sunday
> afternoon in a wilderness area about 60 miles north of said city.
>
> A particularly comely young lady and I had spread a blanket in an open
> field and were enjoying the picnic lunch we had transported there in the
> saddlebags of my motorcycle.
>
> Three unbathed local gents-- two of whom appeared to be in serious need
> of dental care-- arrived in a ratty old pickup truck. It began to circle
> our picnic site while they shouted favorable comments (in a strong
> regional accent) about the young lady and what activities they might
> enjoy engaging in with her.
>
> The suddenly-revealed presence of my Colt .45 ACP 1911 Government Model
> quickly and quietly ended both incidents-- without further incident, I
> might add...
>

Oh! You are such a MAN.

Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> writes:
>On 7/25/2022 6:36 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:

>>
>> The suddenly-revealed presence of my Colt .45 ACP 1911 Government Model
>> quickly and quietly ended both incidents-- without further incident, I
>> might add...
>>
>
>Oh! You are such a MAN.

He is obviously compensating for something missing in his life.

In most states brandishing a weapon is a misdemeanor offense
with up to 6 months in jail.

"In Texas, unlawfully brandishing a weapon means that the
weapon was displayed by a person in an illegal manner. These
cases typically occur when a gun owner points a weapon at or
shows a weapon to a person in a public place in an attempt to
get the person's attention or cause the person to feel fear or alarm"

In some states it's a felony, in others a misdemeanor.

Of course "wade" hides behind anonymity, but he is just another
lawbreaker (assuming his story has any truth to it whatsoever).

On 7/25/2022 8:36 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 7/24/22 7:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
>> On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>>>> compared to guns.
>>>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>>>> year, we would not
>>>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>>>> much benefit there,
>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>
>>>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>>>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
>>>> to a shown firearm.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are
>>> very much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a
>>> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>>>
>>> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
>>
>> And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they
>> want to threaten him.
>
> My hard-and-fast rule, Bob-O, is never to go anyplace with a gun that I
> wouldn't feel safe visiting without one.
>
> Sometimes though, s*** happens. Two especially memorable incidents
> occurred back when I was a young buck.
>
> The first was as I was leaving my downtown office in a large city one
> winter's eve after dark. Heading toward the parking lot, I was greeted
> by a couple of hoodie-wearing teenagers. As the conversation unfolded,
> it became increasingly clear that they were not selling raffle tickets
> for their church bazaar, nor did just they want me to buy a couple.
>
> A second situation occurred the following spring on a sunny Sunday
> afternoon in a wilderness area about 60 miles north of said city.
>
> A particularly comely young lady and I had spread a blanket in an open
> field and were enjoying the picnic lunch we had transported there in the
> saddlebags of my motorcycle.
>
> Three unbathed local gents-- two of whom appeared to be in serious need
> of dental care-- arrived in a ratty old pickup truck. It began to circle
> our picnic site while they shouted favorable comments (in a strong
> regional accent) about the young lady and what activities they might
> enjoy engaging in with her.
>
> The suddenly-revealed presence of my Colt .45 ACP 1911 Government Model
> quickly and quietly ended both incidents-- without further incident, I
> might add...
>

I had a similar incident at a gas station in one of the less
desirable parts of Memphis a few years back . Turning to hang up the
nozzle let my sweatshirt ride up just enough to reveal that there was a
..45 semi-auto pistol on my belt . This discovery was accompanied by
curses and tire smoke as they departed hurriedly ...
--
Snag
“Free speech is my right to say what you don’t
want to hear.” -George Orwell

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 7/24/22 15:59, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> >> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >
> >>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
> >>> compared to guns.
> >>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
> >>> year, we would not
> >>> have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so
> >>> much benefit there,
> >>> obviously.
> >>>
> >> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
> >> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due to
> >> a shown firearm.
> >>
> >
> > Good that you had the right outcome. Unfortunately, the odds are very
> > much against that. Most every day the new has something about a gunman
> > killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
> >
> > The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
> Ed, American Pravda has an agenda. That is why
> you never hear the rest of the story. Save saved
> to lives lost is around 17 to 1

I'm sure we'd all like to see the dats behind that claim. Sounds about as
accurate and truthful as your stolen election BS, Covid BS, anti-vaccine BS.
As to the news never reporting when a good guys saves lives with a gun,
you made that claim the other day in the aftermath of the mall shooting.
I quickly produced the Google results showing all the major news services
covered the story.

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:38:51 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
> On 7/24/22 16:44, Bob F wrote:
> > On 7/24/2022 3:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> >>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>
> >>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
> >>>> compared to guns.
> >>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
> >>>> year, we would not
> >>>> have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so
> >>>> much benefit there,
> >>>> obviously.
> >>>>
> >>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
> >>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
> >>> to a shown firearm.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Good that you had the right outcome. Unfortunately, the odds are very
> >> much against that. Most every day the new has something about a
> >> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
> >>
> >> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
> >
> > And maybe without a gun, he wouldn't antagonize people so much they want
> > to threaten him.
> Bob, It was a concealed weapon.
>
> The purpose of a concealed weapon" is to give the
> bad guy(s) the opportunity to make an uninformed
> decision that has serious consequences to the
> bad gay.

I thought the purpose of a good guy with a gun was to protect
themselves and others from a deadly threat, as a last resort.
You make it sound like it's Charles Bronson mode.

On 7/24/2022 8:36 PM, T wrote:
> On 7/24/22 15:59, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
>>>> compared to guns.
>>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
>>>> year, we would not
>>>> have an economy without them.   With guns and gun deaths,  not so
>>>> much benefit there,
>>>> obviously.
>>>>
>>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
>>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
>>> to a shown firearm.
>>>
>>
>> Good that you had the right outcome.  Unfortunately, the odds are very
>> much against that.  Most every day the new has something about a
>> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
>>
>> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
>
> Ed,  American Pravda has an agenda.  That is why
> you never hear the rest of the story.  Save saved
> to lives lost is around 17 to 1

They also keep mum on the 100,000 OD deaths every year from illegal
drugs containing fentanyl. Of course it has nothing to do with open
borders and liberal policies.

On 7/25/2022 11:36 AM, Frank wrote:

>> Ed,  American Pravda has an agenda.  That is why
>> you never hear the rest of the story.  Save saved
>> to lives lost is around 17 to 1

He quotes a statistic but no backup or source. Meaningless.

>
> They also keep mum on the 100,000 OD deaths every year from illegal
> drugs containing fentanyl.  Of course it has nothing to do with open
> borders and liberal policies.

How does open borders affect the fentanyl? Everything I see about it
smuggled in has nothing to do with the illegal immigrants, everything to
do with other types of smuggling in planes, train, cars and trucks.

Much comes into Texas, a stage that has few liberal policies.
I see two separate issues. Please explain if you see differently.

On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 11:36:23 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 8:36 PM, T wrote:
> > On 7/24/22 15:59, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> On 7/24/2022 5:00 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> >>> On 7/24/22 12:36 PM, trader_4 wrote:
> >>
> >>>> That has nothing to do with the cost/benefit analysis of vehicles
> >>>> compared to guns.
> >>>> Society gets a huge benefit compared to the 35K traffic deaths a
> >>>> year, we would not
> >>>> have an economy without them. With guns and gun deaths, not so
> >>>> much benefit there,
> >>>> obviously.
> >>>>
> >>> Except in the case of folks like myself who have ended potentially
> >>> violent criminal threats against themselves and those with them due
> >>> to a shown firearm.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Good that you had the right outcome. Unfortunately, the odds are very
> >> much against that. Most every day the new has something about a
> >> gunman killing an innocent person, be it robbery, domestic, whatever.
> >>
> >> The "good guy" numbers just don't overshadow the bad guys.
> >
> > Ed, American Pravda has an agenda. That is why
> > you never hear the rest of the story. Save saved
> > to lives lost is around 17 to 1
> They also keep mum on the 100,000 OD deaths every year from illegal
> drugs containing fentanyl. Of course it has nothing to do with open
> borders and liberal policies.

Of course it was all under control and not increasing dramatically during
the 4 years of Trump and two years of Republican control of both houses
of Congress, right?

https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

Look at Fig 2. Fentanyl deaths just about tripled during that period.