On 11/9/2021 11:13 AM, hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 8:37:50 AM UTC-8, a425couple wrote:
>> On 11/8/2021 3:22 PM, Anthony Soprano wrote:
>>> NYTIMES.COM
>>> Back in Chicago, Woman Is Charged in Killing of Mother on Indonesian
>>> Vacation
>>> Alyssa Lukpat
>>>
>>> Heather L. Mack, 26, had already served more than six years in prison
>>> in Indonesia for the 2014 killing of her mother, whose body was found
>>> in a suitcase at a Bali resort.
>>>
>>> Nov. 3, 2021
>>> -------
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, Mr. Claypool called the charges against Ms. Mack
>>> "ridiculous" and said this was a case of double jeopardy that they
>>> would contest.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, you might think it unfair, or unwise,
>> but the 'double jeopardy' only relates to 2nd
>> charges in the same jurisdiction.
>
> Not in the Constitution which simply says, " nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;"
> Nothing there about in the same jurisdiction. Sadly, like much of the Constitution, that clause has been abused.
>
> That woman should probably still be in prison, but the Constitution does not support incarcerating her here.
>

Hal, you are wrong on this subject.

"nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice
put in jeopardy of life or limb; ...[52]

Conversely, double jeopardy comes with a key exception. Under the
multiple sovereignties doctrine, multiple sovereigns can indict a
defendant for the same crime. The federal and state governments can
have overlapping criminal laws, so a criminal offender may be
convicted in individual states and federal courts for exactly the
same crime or for different crimes arising out of the same facts."

And this is why Derek Chauvin, having been convicted
on state charges, is now awaiting Federal charges.

Heather Mack can still be charged in the USA for:
The charges -- one count of conspiracy to kill in a foreign country,
one count of conspiracy to commit foreign murder of a U.S. national
and one count of obstruction stem from a 2016 indictment returned
by a grand jury while Ms. Mack was imprisoned in Indonesia.

On 11/9/2021 2:31 PM, hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:08:13 PM UTC-8, a425couple wrote:
>> On 11/9/2021 11:13 AM, hal lillywhite wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 8:37:50 AM UTC-8, a425couple wrote:
>>>> On 11/8/2021 3:22 PM, Anthony Soprano wrote:
>>>>> NYTIMES.COM
>>>>> Back in Chicago, Woman Is Charged in Killing of Mother on Indonesian
>>>>> Vacation
>>>>> Alyssa Lukpat
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather L. Mack, 26, had already served more than six years in prison
>>>>> in Indonesia for the 2014 killing of her mother, whose body was found
>>>>> in a suitcase at a Bali resort.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nov. 3, 2021
>>>>> -------
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, Mr. Claypool called the charges against Ms. Mack
>>>>> "ridiculous" and said this was a case of double jeopardy that they
>>>>> would contest.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, you might think it unfair, or unwise,
>>>> but the 'double jeopardy' only relates to 2nd
>>>> charges in the same jurisdiction.
>>>
>>> Not in the Constitution which simply says, " nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;"
>>> Nothing there about in the same jurisdiction. Sadly, like much of the Constitution, that clause has been abused.
>>>
>>> That woman should probably still be in prison, but the Constitution does not support incarcerating her here.
>>>
>> Hal, you are wrong on this subject.
>> "nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice
>> put in jeopardy of life or limb; ...[52]
>>
>> Conversely, double jeopardy comes with a key exception. Under the
>> multiple sovereignties doctrine, multiple sovereigns can indict a
>> defendant for the same crime. The federal and state governments can
>> have overlapping criminal laws, so a criminal offender may be
>> convicted in individual states and federal courts for exactly the
>> same crime or for different crimes arising out of the same facts."
>
> And just where in the Constitution do you find that multiple sovereignties doctine?
>
> Your examples are exactly what I mean by abuse of that protection. The purpose of that clause is to prevent government with its nearly unlimited resources from continuing to try someone over and over for the same offense. That clause is now too often disregarded, as is much of the Constitution.
>
> The Constitution clearly says for the same *offense.* Trying someone in a state, then at the federal level for the same offense is unconstitutional, regardless of what the twisters of words claim.
>

So Hal is insisting that Derek Chauvin does not
need to worry about the Federal criminal charges.

Warning to all - DO NOT CONSIDER HAL's legal advise.

In Gamble v. United States (2019), the court in a 7-2 decision held
that the dual sovereignty doctrine means that an individual can be
prosecuted by two sovereign governments without violating the
double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment. Justice Ginsburg
dissented, stated that “the liberty-denying potential of successive
prosecutions, when Federal and State Governments prosecute in tandem,
is the same as it is when either prosecutes twice.”

In Abbate v. United States (1959) the Court held that the double
jeopardy clause is inapplicable to a federal prosecution following
a state prosecution for the same crime.

State and federal charges for same crime - Double
jeopardy?https://www.shouselaw.com › blog › is-it-double-jeopar...
Oct 1, 2021 — It is not double jeopardy to charge a person in state and
federal court, provided that he did some act that violated both state
and federal laws ...

Can You Be Prosecuted for the Same Crime in State
andhttps://www.globenewswire.com › 2021/04/29 › Can-Y...
Apr 29, 2021 — However, an individual can face prosecution for the same
offense in both state and federal court. This is because “dual
sovereignty” holds ...

Can Someone Face State and Federal Charges For the Same
....https://criminallawnj.com › can-someone-face-state-and...
Oct 16, 2020 — It is possible to be tried, convicted, and face distinct
punishments at two separate levels. However, when a guilty verdict by
one court leads ...

Can I Be Tried for the Same Crime in Both Federal and State
....https://www.connecticutcriminallawyer.com › can-tried-...
Jul 22, 2019 — The Supreme Court ruled that the federal government was
not in violation of the Constitution when it charged the Alabama man for
the same crime ...

State vs. Federal Prosecution | Nolohttps://www.nolo.com ›
legal-encyclopedia › state-fede...
But some crimes violate both state and federal law, enabling both
governments to bring criminal charges. Some crimes, on the other hand,
are left only to ...

SCOTUS allows states and federal government to prosecute a
....https://www.cnbc.com › 2019/06/17 › scotus-allows-sta...
Jun 17, 2019 — The Supreme Court on Monday refused to overturn a
longstanding rule that allows individuals to be charged by states and
the federal government ...

Is it Double Jeopardy to Charge a Crime at State and Federal
....https://www.wklaw.com › double-jeopardy-federal
Jun 11, 2014 — While it is true that the state cannot retry a person for
murder (for example), once he or she has been found not guilty by a
jury, ...

Can I be tried for the same crime in state and federal
court?https://goldsteinmehta.com › blog › can-i-be-tried-for-t...
Jun 20, 2019 — Federal law provides very weak protections against a
defendant facing charges in both state and federal court for the same
conduct. In the ...

Federal Crime? The process, Sentencing and Appeals - The
....https://www.nocuffs.com › federal-crimes
If you are found guilty of a state crime, you can also be found guilty
on the ... Although criminal cases are heard in both state and federal
courts, ...

State Crimes vs. Federal Crimes -
CriminalDefenseLawyer.comhttps://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com ›
resources › st...
But many criminal acts, such as bank robbery, are crimes under both
federal ... If you are charged with or under investigation for a federal
or state crime, ...
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On 11/9/2021 3:31 PM, hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:54:37 PM UTC-8, a425couple wrote:
>
>>> And just where in the Constitution do you find that multiple sovereignties doctine?
>
> You spout off a lot of examples of just how that clause is abused, now how about answering my question above?
>

Hal, It is the United States Supreme Court that
is the final decider of how to interpret the
US Constitution, not you!

Why are you being so obstinate and obtuse on this
silly side issue??

Here is one recent, and one decision from quite
a while (60 years) back.

In Gamble v. United States (2019), the court in a 7-2 decision held
that the dual sovereignty doctrine means that an individual can be
prosecuted by two sovereign governments without violating the
double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment. Justice Ginsburg
dissented, stated that “the liberty-denying potential of successive
prosecutions, when Federal and State Governments prosecute in tandem,
is the same as it is when either prosecutes twice.”

In Abbate v. United States (1959) the Court held that the double
jeopardy clause is inapplicable to a federal prosecution following
a state prosecution for the same crime.