Two different dreams from different days. I didn't post "webs" as I
only remember a snippet, it must've been several weeks now.

"Webs"

I was walking into my house, I see a number of 'webs' for lack of a
better term. They are each about as thick as my forearm, they look to
be made of black licorice candy with a sort of splatter at each anchor
point, each is a single strand, not actually web shaped, they also have
an uneven shape as though they were made out of string cheese which had
been stretched far enough to start splitting, but then melted back into
a slightly blob like shape, or perhaps a bit like cave rocks. It's hard
to describe, but I could draw it easily enough.

Each is diagonal anchored on a wall and the floor or ceiling. There's
one anchored on the door frame and diagonally on the floor further into
the room, and a good number further in the house to make it appear webbed.

I'm moving into the house with some trepidation, and feeling anxious,
wondering what monster did this, or is it fungus, or some horrible
prank. I get the impression I'm 20's female of slight build and
bookish, perhaps wearing glasses (I'm not either) and crouched a bit,
and that my wife is besides and behind me.

There's some yellow flickering light, almost a miasma within the house
as though illuminated by candles or a fire. I also get the impression
there's police around and the outside is taped off.

At that point I wake.

I just remembered now I had moved up to the police and had had asked
"what's going on?" and they'd said something like "We're investigating
Ma'am." I said "That's my house!" in a loud but not yelling voice with
some frustration. I move past the police, who seem to be standing about
ineffectually, and brushed aside the tape - where the description began.

"RC Car"

Once again at my kid's school. I park in the nearly full parking lot,
which is much larger than my kid's school. My wife is with me
semi-following to the right, a building on the left. We seem to be
trying to walk through the school, as if to get home (With the physical
configuration of the real school that wouldn't be possible, and it makes
no sense to park at the school to go home) and we're chit chatting
nothing of import about what I don't remember.

I find I'm driving an RC car a few feet in front of me. There's a bunch
of brown things on the sidewalk that I'm having trouble navigating the
car through. They look sort of like chunks of tire with the steel
threads in them other than being the color and size of wood chips.

I have a black remote control, the car appears to be made of a a number
of blocks of blue white and black, perhaps Legos with some curved pieces
on top to make it look more car like. It's about 5 or 6 inches wide. I
seem to be looking down on it from very high, perhaps I'm much taller
than normal.

I feel my wife move past me as I'm futzing around with trying to drive
the car through the chips, I look up after a few moments.

I look up and don't see my wife, I look around and see see an elderly
black man wearing a cloth fedora with a pattern that looks 40 years old,
yellow-beige with thin dashed lines of blue and red. He has white
stubble and a bit of white and is healthily thin. He's wearing slacks,
has dress shoes somewhat worn and a button up short sleeve shirt, also
with a dotted line pattern. His arms are draped on the bench he sits
on. He nods in the direction in which we were headed as if to say "over
there." I look over there, there's a shadowy figure on a side walk a
good couple hundred feet away. Thinking about him now still is giving
me the shivers.

He is in all black wearing a hat and trench coat of the kind an old 60's
cartoon spy might wear. He's a little thick around the middle. I can't
make out the face. His hands are in his pockets. His head is all fuzzy
as if made of shadow-stuff. He's pacing slowly back and forth. I want
to know what he's done with my wife. He stops to face in my direction,
but without apparent recognition.

I hop feet first in the pool to the right (no pool at my kid's school,
and I don't think had been there a moment ago) to escape his gaze.

The following is 10/10 clear as being awake:

I see myself from out of body a few feet away in the pool ramrod
straight fully submerged. I'm not myself though. I'm a thicker black
man, about mid way between line backer and tight end, of milk chocolate
complexion (I'm white) maybe in his 40s, with a widow's peak of tight
curls, floating up a bit in the back to make a sort of W. He has a short
mustache and roundish face, which reminds me a bit of an amalgam of Key
& Peel, and a hulking meathead of an old college friend I had a falling
out with. I'm wearing one of my favorite shirts, a short sleeve autumn
green with large boxes of dark blue dashed thread, and breast pockets.

The pool is well illuminated by the sun and clear, I see a few bubbles
around 'me'. I'm going through some strange expressions, concentrating
to look toward the shadowy man though still underwater Then shifting to
look back. I get the feeling of tightness in the chest from holding my
breath. I'm holding my arms straight against my body and my legs
straight out as if standing, but I'm obviously floating underwater a
half-foot at a slight angle. I'm not struggling.

I wake up.

Looking back on it the angle and the fact I was holding my arms and legs
like that was very odd, almost as if a force was keeping them there, but
I wasn't struggling and didn't feel any such force. It's very odd I was
able to keep underwater and somehow turn to look back without otherwise
moving, though I get the impression I was moving my hands like fins to
do so, only I moved as if turning around quickly out of the water.

I've never dreamt I was a black man that I can remember, nor so large as
that. Seeing myself from the outside clearly like that is very unusual
too. Usually when I see myself at all from the outside it's more like
an impression of a memory or just an awareness of what I look like and
very dreamlike.

Seeing myself as a woman isn't common, but has happened, usually it has
no real impact on the dream, perhaps on this occasion it is just
representing the vulnerability and trepidation I was feeling in the
dream. I might have even been my normal waking 'me' before I started to
enter the house.

I imagine the 'webs' dream was about the state of our house which I
haven't been able to do much about due to a variety of factors, and
which is constantly angering and stressing me out.

The only thing I have any idea about in the 'RC Car' is that I was rear
ended last weekend, and my car was taken away by the insurance company,
as it was totaled. That seems very tangential to the dream though. Also
the neighbor's wood chips were washing down the sidewalk in the rain a
couple days ago and I had some trouble navigating them when I was
walking my dog. Hmm, the RC car could represent my little dog.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-6, Justisaur wrote:
> Two different dreams from different days. I didn't post "webs" as I
> only remember a snippet, it must've been several weeks now.
>
> "Webs"
>
> I was walking into my house, I see a number of 'webs' for lack of a
> better term. They are each about as thick as my forearm, they look to
> be made of black licorice candy with a sort of splatter at each anchor
> point, each is a single strand, not actually web shaped, they also have
<snip>
> There's some yellow flickering light, almost a miasma within the house
> as though illuminated by candles or a fire. I also get the impression
> there's police around and the outside is taped off.
>
> At that point I wake.
>
> I just remembered now I had moved up to the police and had had asked
> "what's going on?" and they'd said something like "We're investigating
> Ma'am." I said "That's my house!" in a loud but not yelling voice with
> some frustration. I move past the police, who seem to be standing about
> ineffectually, and brushed aside the tape - where the description began.
>
>
>
> "RC Car"
>
<snip>
> I've never dreamt I was a black man that I can remember, nor so large as
> that. Seeing myself from the outside clearly like that is very unusual
> too. Usually when I see myself at all from the outside it's more like
> an impression of a memory or just an awareness of what I look like and
> very dreamlike.
>
> Seeing myself as a woman isn't common, but has happened, usually it has
> no real impact on the dream, perhaps on this occasion it is just
> representing the vulnerability and trepidation I was feeling in the
> dream. I might have even been my normal waking 'me' before I started to
> enter the house.
>
> I imagine the 'webs' dream was about the state of our house which I
> haven't been able to do much about due to a variety of factors, and
> which is constantly angering and stressing me out.
>
> The only thing I have any idea about in the 'RC Car' is that I was rear
> ended last weekend, and my car was taken away by the insurance company,
> as it was totaled. That seems very tangential to the dream though. Also
> the neighbor's wood chips were washing down the sidewalk in the rain a
> couple days ago and I had some trouble navigating them when I was
> walking my dog. Hmm, the RC car could represent my little dog.
>
<snip>

So the content of those dreams is *very rich* in that they convey a LOT of "rich detail," such that comprises a LOT of the "quantum realities" of your life.

I enjoy reading the experiences of being "other than" your current life form. I've been through a few of those myself.

The best I can *recommend* is that you *keep* an active dream journal throughout your days on earth. These "patterns" may be used by future analysts in order to "establish patterns and precepts" that may help with dream interpretation in the future. (It may also help you to better understand your *own* dreams in like manner!)

Here's a little something about "Webs": it ***could*** be that the black stuff represents "evil" structures that have set up a "stronghold" within your life. The way to rid yourself of them (to get "clean dreams" again) is through an ongoing relationship with Jesus (in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, as some folk put it.)

Here's a link you may wish to read on your own: tinyurl.com/ITTA-TCoU (and let me know what it means to you afterward.)

On 1/14/2024 4:02 PM, Richard Silk wrote:
> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 10:03:13 AM UTC-6, Justisaur wrote:
>> Two different dreams from different days. I didn't post "webs" as I
>> only remember a snippet, it must've been several weeks now.
>>
>> "Webs"
>>
>> I was walking into my house, I see a number of 'webs' for lack of a
>> better term. They are each about as thick as my forearm, they look to
>> be made of black licorice candy with a sort of splatter at each anchor
>> point, each is a single strand, not actually web shaped, they also have
> <snip>
>> There's some yellow flickering light, almost a miasma within the house
>> as though illuminated by candles or a fire. I also get the impression
>> there's police around and the outside is taped off.
>>
>> At that point I wake.
>>
>> I just remembered now I had moved up to the police and had had asked
>> "what's going on?" and they'd said something like "We're investigating
>> Ma'am." I said "That's my house!" in a loud but not yelling voice with
>> some frustration. I move past the police, who seem to be standing about
>> ineffectually, and brushed aside the tape - where the description began.
>>
>>
>>
>> "RC Car"
>>
> <snip>
>> I've never dreamt I was a black man that I can remember, nor so large as
>> that. Seeing myself from the outside clearly like that is very unusual
>> too. Usually when I see myself at all from the outside it's more like
>> an impression of a memory or just an awareness of what I look like and
>> very dreamlike.
>>
>> Seeing myself as a woman isn't common, but has happened, usually it has
>> no real impact on the dream, perhaps on this occasion it is just
>> representing the vulnerability and trepidation I was feeling in the
>> dream. I might have even been my normal waking 'me' before I started to
>> enter the house.
>>
>> I imagine the 'webs' dream was about the state of our house which I
>> haven't been able to do much about due to a variety of factors, and
>> which is constantly angering and stressing me out.
>>
>> The only thing I have any idea about in the 'RC Car' is that I was rear
>> ended last weekend, and my car was taken away by the insurance company,
>> as it was totaled. That seems very tangential to the dream though. Also
>> the neighbor's wood chips were washing down the sidewalk in the rain a
>> couple days ago and I had some trouble navigating them when I was
>> walking my dog. Hmm, the RC car could represent my little dog.
>>
> <snip>
>
> So the content of those dreams is *very rich* in that they convey a LOT of "rich detail," such that comprises a LOT of the "quantum realities" of your life.
>
> I enjoy reading the experiences of being "other than" your current life form. I've been through a few of those myself.
>
> The best I can *recommend* is that you *keep* an active dream journal throughout your days on earth. These "patterns" may be used by future analysts in order to "establish patterns and precepts" that may help with dream interpretation in the future. (It may also help you to better understand your *own* dreams in like manner!)

I'm not actually sure I even like remembering my dreams. I did used to
remember a lot more and make an effort to remember them when I was
young. For some time I've not really thought much about it and let them
fade as is the default human condition. Looking upon my old haunts on
Usenet with the soon to be dismantling of GG brought me back to them.

Is it even helpful to remember and analyze them. I don't know. There
is some entertainment to be had from them, but it also feels somehow
wrong in a way I can't put my finger on.

The time to write in the morning is difficult to find during the week as
well.

> Here's a little something about "Webs": it ***could*** be that the black stuff represents "evil" structures that have set up a "stronghold" within your life.

Quite possible. Things I want to change, but am otherwise hopeless about.

> The way to rid yourself of them (to get "clean dreams" again) is through an ongoing relationship with Jesus (in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, as some folk put it.)

> Here's a link you may wish to read on your own:
tinyurl.com/ITTA-TCoU (and let me know what it means to you afterward.)

I'm an agnostic Californian as you so put it so venomously in another
reply. I've had exposure to a number of religions growing up, I find
good and bad in all of them, even atheism such as it is or isn't a
religion.

The only thing that's really stuck with me is what my grandfather taught
me in his self proclaimed religion of the "Brick church" which is to
follow the golden rule of "Do onto others as you would have them do unto
you." Which is basically what your link is about.

Even that is difficult follow ethically, as there are things others
would want done to them that I wouldn't and vice versa and etcettera.
and it's easy to justify certain things that are otherwise self
evidently wrong with it.

He also taught me "Everything in moderation." Which I also believe where
it can apply, but I don't remember finding that in any religion.

The other thing organized religion has is community and co-operation,
which is a huge flaw of atheism. There's been attempts, but I'd say
they're largely failures and suffer from taking opposite stances from
rebelling against Christianity specifically rather than forging
something without such prejudices.

I've managed to find community and co-operation elsewhere, but it's
crumbled under changes especially those brought by the lockdowns of Covid.

I find evangelization distasteful, rude, and fails the golden rule in my
case. Would you want someone trying to convert you to another religion?
If so then I'll happily send you all the atheist links I come across.
Otherwise I will will expect to be treated in kind. I will no longer
reply to such attempts, even doing so this once is against my better
judgement, but you seem otherwise cordial and I'll forgive the severe
breach of etiquette this once.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Using the "old school" in-line reply technique, J wrote:> "I'm not actually sure I even like remembering my dreams."

Whatever one may think, say or do *is* one's *own* business (per the 10ᵗʰ Commandment, Exodus 20:17.)

However, I'll present to you the "what if?" scenario: What *if* one could A) learn to control one's dream (in essence, control one's life) and thereby B) have a direct (preferably positive) consequence *on* one's dreams / life? IF such were possible, *then* one's life could begin to reveal much greater light to the world of darkness, poetically speaking, as it were.

To that end, here's a link to what I call the "Right Eye First" technique, that I developed decades ago (and first posted here in alt.dreams) which has had various (mostly positive!) responses / feedback!

tinyurl.com/RightEyeFirstTechnique

I'm personally working on "brevity" by using links to avoid re-typing the same information over and over again (a bit like sharing a cooking recipe using cut & paste, but with a link.)

Meanwhile, many, *many* people try to share their own, personal tips on what brings "happiness" (or "meaning") into existence. That above link is simply a *physiological technique* that appears to function on *most people!* that is designed to instantly trigger REM phase, and to *aid* in dream recall.

But "happiness" / "meaning"?

Hmmmm.... well, my life was pure, prodigal garbage at one point, so I decided to "change role models" from what *I* wanted to what someone *else* was able to achieve. OK, so who then to pick as "the" role model? Someone who *never* lost, and even in the one event were it appeared all was lost, was actually the key moment of victory?

(I suspect you can "hear" where this is going.)

OK, so then I started *questioning intently* as to *why* that particular role model should be (or "is") preferable to all others? Well, to answer that, I had to start questioning the words recorded of what the person taught. In order to do that, I had to *discard ALL* of what "other folk" said about what X actually "means," and question the words recorded directly.

(Again, I suspect you can "hear" where this is going. However, what I'm sharing here is the *process* of investigation, query, study, analysis, result/consequence.)

So OK, I've got this "Concept 1" that I pick as the "new standard" by which to start applying my life, the standard(s) by which I treat others, and more importantly, the "template" with which I filter my words that they may be meaningful to the reader / listener.

Now comes the "important part," that is, picking an "antithesis" to "Concept 1," which was the *real* trick indeed! I can tell you more about that "journey," but unless you have any actual interest, there may be no actual "point" to sharing it.

So again, *to be brief,* I put the journey into a children's level story which (I believe) brings out the *point* that "Reality Conforms to Thought." (Now apply that to the reality of "Light" and "darkness" and you may *possibly* begin to "get the picture.")

That's the whole purpose to the link: tinyurl.com/ITTA-TCoU

J:> "I did [use] to remember a lot more and make an effort to remember them when I was young. For some time I've not really thought much about it and let them fade as is the default human condition. Looking upon my old haunts on Usenet with the soon to be dismantling of GG brought me back to them."

Ditto. I remember back when I was just learning to understand that people dream (as a youth of around 3 or 4) that I tried to remember them all as well. To this day, I can remember some *very old* dreams (dreams from *long ago*) with fairly decent clarity (like the two-story hay bales with a hatch between the floors) although I started noticing *in my adult year* that certain dreams seemed to have a "real life analog" that occurred typically within 24 to 48 hours. (Then came the "out of body" / "astral body projection" experiences, and that *really* piqued my interest!)

So when I discovered alt.dreams, well, it seemed like practically a "god send" that I could *journal* the dreams, then see if any of them actually *did* "come true" in real life.

ONE such dream of significance *may* be found by looking back at July 25th (and for whatever reason I have trouble remembering the year, possibly mid-to-late '90s, certainly no later than 2004) wherein I posted a dream of being a female about to give birth, the feeling of trying to pass a bowling ball from inside my pelvic bone to the outside, and that if I squeezed one more time, something was going to "break." I posted that dream, then later that afternoon, my nephew was born (at least a full week or more ahead of his due date, somewhere in August.)

J:> "Is it even helpful to remember and analyze them. I don't know."

The dream I had of October 7th of 2023 was rather amazing, but by the time I'd posted it, apparently, the news of the invasion of Israel from the Gaza strip was already world news. It doesn't matter that I posted the dream *before* turning on the news: the news went public *at about the time* I was having the dream. (It's the idea of posting a dream *before* an event occurs that I find a fascinating possibility.)

J:> "There is some entertainment to be had from them, but it also feels somehow wrong in a way I can't put my finger on."

Well, I *sorta* get that. It's the near anonymity of alt.dreams that I appreciate: Sure, I can post some *wild* stuff that would *normally* get a person "committed" (back before the Left dumped out all the criminally insane into the streets as homeless addicts) but in alt.dreams, it's simply "just a dream," and as such, open to speculation / interpretation (even ridicule, but fortunately, there's been none of that visible in all the years I've been posting here. The "bad folk" tend to simply disappear, and only the auto-spammers leave any actual "defecation" in the space.)

Other than that, I am unable to see anything "wrong" about posting dreams. To me, it's analogous with the public "block chain" that's the core engine of bit-coin technology.

Here's an example of avoiding judgment: Say someone has a dislike, aversion, or even a hatred of firearms (anti-2nd-Amendment folk): they blame the cop(s) whenever a criminal (or even an innocent person) gets shot dead. Then, when some insane person goes on a killing spree, the *very same* people *blame the guns*. (In essence, blamers blame, judgers judge, haters hate, etc.)

Now look at the oxymoron of the phrase "gun violence": no gun is capable of "violence" as that is a *human* quality. *People* are either law-abiding, peace-loving, life-protecting, *or* criminally violent. It has *nothing* to do with "guns."

So if someone wants to "ban all guns," then who will have them? Those who *disobey* the law (eventually, the tyrants.) THEN where will you be? So if guns get banned, then people start using swords, knives, baseball bats, even rocks to defend themselves *if* they are life-protecting/life-defending, yet the criminally ill / violent use the same things to kill.

So where's the "point of peace" between these two sides? Simple: "Judge NOT—"

Is [X] "right" or "wrong"? No judgment. Feel the peace of that position?

J:> "The time to write in the morning is difficult to find during the week as well."

I get that too. Fortunately, my full-time "job" is caring for my elderly mother, so I basically am at the keyboard as much as humanly possible (between times of "activity" and/or rest/sleeping.)

The "method" I've adopted is to simply *find* time to post when there's a dream "worth the time / interest" to journal (to type up.) Otherwise, sure, I have other things I could be doing.

Then, when "tuning into" alt.dreams, it helps to take the time to reply to others *before* writing up whatever brought me here in the first place. That way, others get listened to / interacted with, *and* whatever brought me here gets tended to (finally) at the end.

RCS:> Here's a little something about "Webs": it ***could*** be that the black stuff represents "evil" structures that have set up a "stronghold" within your life.

J:> "Quite possible. Things I want to change, but am otherwise hopeless about."

I'd like to offer you some direct input to encourage you as to what is possible, but I've skimmed through some of what's to follow, and will just say for now: "Reality Conforms to Thought." (See also: Matthew 19:26!)

If you'd like to try to disprove that (that "Reality Conforms to Thought") it is exceptionally simple to show how trying to disprove it only proves it more clearly.

From there, you may begin to think of ways to "change your reality" as your reality begins conforming to your thought. (It's a bit of a process, like learning any skill that takes time to master.)

RCS:> The way to rid yourself of them (to get "clean dreams" again) is through an ongoing relationship with Jesus (in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, as some folk put it.)

On 1/21/2024 3:40 PM, Richard Silk wrote:
> I remember back when I was just learning to understand that people dream (as a youth of around 3 or 4) that I tried to remember them all as well. To this day, I can remember some *very old* dreams (dreams from *long ago*) with fairly decent clarity (like the two-story hay bales with a hatch between the floors) although I started noticing *in my adult year* that certain dreams seemed to have a "real life analog" that occurred typically within 24 to 48 hours. (Then came the "out of body" / "astral body projection" experiences, and that *really* piqued my interest!)

I can remember a few bits of a couple dreams I had when I was around 15,
and a couple particularly from around 7 or so. I don't really have time
right now, but I'll try to write what I remember of them here at some
point. It's possible I've written them down at some point, I'll have to
look through my old files.

> So when I discovered alt.dreams, well, it seemed like practically a "god send" that I could *journal* the dreams, then see if any of them actually *did* "come true" in real life.

I've had a number of deja vu moments that I swear I dreamed about
sometimes decades before, but unfortunately don't think I wrote them
down. I may have done one, again I'll have to look through the old files.

> J:> "Is it even helpful to remember and analyze them. I don't know."
>
> The dream I had of October 7th of 2023 was rather amazing, but by the time I'd posted it, apparently, the news of the invasion of Israel from the Gaza strip was already world news. It doesn't matter that I posted the dream *before* turning on the news: the news went public *at about the time* I was having the dream. (It's the idea of posting a dream *before* an event occurs that I find a fascinating possibility.)

Ah, but that's not an analysis, and were those dreams of any help?

>
> J:> "There is some entertainment to be had from them, but it also feels somehow wrong in a way I can't put my finger on."

> Well, I *sorta* get that. It's the near anonymity of alt.dreams that I appreciate: Sure, I can post some *wild* stuff that would *normally* get a person "committed" (back before the Left dumped out all the criminally insane into the streets as homeless addicts) but in alt.dreams, it's simply "just a dream," and as such, open to speculation / interpretation (even ridicule, but fortunately, there's been none of that visible in all the years I've been posting here. The "bad folk" tend to simply disappear, and only the auto-spammers leave any actual "defecation" in the space.)

I doesn't look to be anyone here but you and Sandy at this point. Well
and me, but one never knows when someone will join or rejoin, or find
some Usenet discussion in the future, or it will be incorporated into
the Superintelligent AI of the future. :)

> Other than that, I am unable to see anything "wrong" about posting dreams. To me, it's analogous with the public"block chain" that's the core engine of bit-coin technology.

I think it's a mix of something like unnecessarily reliving the horror
or nightmares, perhaps damaging one's psyche', and peeking behind the
curtain in the theater of life. Either way "Things that man was not
meant to know."

It gives me a certain vibe that the insane give off.

> "gun violence"

I'm a pragmatist. Statistically other countries that have banned
general ownership of guns have had beyond significantly less both
violence and suicides, and it's even evident in places within the US
where gun laws are stricter.

So in general I'm for banning guns, as I prefer to keep deaths as low as
possible.

To freedom, having regular guns doesn't really have much impact as when
the laws were written there were no, tanks, air planes, helicopters,
chemical and nuclear weapons, which put guns as useful as a rock vs.
those in power.

However, there is the significant outlier of Switzerland, which has a
requirement of both military service and gun training, which has one of
the lowest rates of any violence. I'd prefer to go that way instead of
the worst of both worlds we're in in the US, and it seems it would be
easier to get us to bans than full military service.

> Is [X] "right" or "wrong"? No judgment. Feel the peace of that position?

Interesting. I'm coming more from the right or wrong of effectiveness.

> I *do* seem to recall some type of images of homeless folk on sidewalks. *Much* (not "all") of California appears to be run by agnostics or atheists these days. At least, that's how it appears in all forms of nightly news: Fox says it "out loud" while those MSM type outlets say it tacitly (by "not" saying it, or by "looking/pointing away from" the conditions that *public, government/governing policies* are causing.)

I'm in the capital, a lot more of the right up here, and a lot of right
in the rural areas, which mirrors the rest of the country, but they have
much less pull on california than they do nationally.

It was also Regan who dismantled the mental institutions here, which
started it everywhere else, a republican. There was a lot wrong with
those though, a lot of abuse of people putting away inconvenient people
and keeping people there as a way to enrich the institutions.

I don't really know which was better. It feels scarier out there, but
statistically crime is way down.

> J:> "The only thing that's really stuck with me is what my grandfather taught me in his [self-proclaimed] religion of the "Brick church" which is to follow the golden rule of 'Do onto others as you would have them do unto you.' Which is basically what your link is about."
>
> Trying to follow that: a "Brick church" is the *consequence* of enough *people* congregating together as a common mind (as in Baptism into the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ) which is yet another example of how "Reality Conforms to Thought": as the congregation grows, the meeting in homes migrates to meeting in a common location which migrates to the building of a "Brick church" (etc.)

Sorry, it's a bit of an inside joke that started with his enlistment
into the Navy when asked to declare his church he replied "brick." Which
meant he didn't have a preference for any and was fine for any. I am to
understand that was a common 'joke' of the time, but I'm not sure, I
never did any research into it. I'm not sure I'm explaining that very
well.

I realize now that I pretty much just imprinted on that, much as many if
not most do exposed to whatever religion is about them.

> Make no joke nor mistake about it: there's a *HUGE* gulf between Unity (that which *includes* duality) and duality (that which *excludes* Unity) — Just as the donut *includes* the hole, yet the hole *is NOT* (excludes) the donut.

Your argument seems semantics at best, which disinterests me. Umbrella
classification. A house cat is a feline, but not all felines are house
cats. Classification is an invention of man as well, and both maters
and plays tricks only upon himself.

> Oh yeah... just a minute...
> https://youtu.be/s2__6jMtmIM?t=1511 << if you want a "concrete example" / "proof" to understand how and why atheism fails in contrast with Christianity, *feel free* to check out that particular link. Give it *two minutes* to see if it's "in your wheel house" as they say.

Hmm. Interesting, if all that's to be believed, I'd put it more on the
'liberal' who started it than atheism. Plenty of places work without
the christian god (though other ones take the same place) on a varying
scale of success as well as those that have one.

> It's basically the "logical" fact that when "g=0" the speaker reflects the logically FALSE condition. For some reason, atheists (for the most part) appear to *lack* the understanding of Boolean / binary logic.
>

The main points of atheism that make sense to me is that

* There's thousands of religions, most of them are formed on the basic
of only 'one true god' an that others aren't.

* I and (most) people including myself have a moral compass regardless
of religion. (Those who don't having a mental illness, and occur
regardless of their espoused religion or being of none, and in fact seem
to occur more in those with strictly religious upbringing.)

* The writings of all those are factually wrong with regards to how the
universe works, if it did indeed come from an all knowing and truthful
god, they would not be.

Among others

> IF you yourself happen to classify yourself *as* atheist *or* agnostic, then I do indeed consider this (communicating *with* you) as something of a "rare privilege" / honor. It will be interesting to see how far it continues 👍✔😎

I don't consider myself an atheist, though I am an unbeliever. I feel
like there's something greater beyond what we are or appear to be, but
religions have made a terrible mess of it.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 1:01:22 AM UTC-6, Justisaur wrote (in conversation with Silk):

J:> "Of the takes on Christianity, I am most attracted to Jefferson."

While I understand the "context," it would help to have a specific reference point, such as a "point of reason" within the Jefferson ideology—

J:> "The Jefferson Bible I find of some interest, and I really must get around to reading it in it's entirety at some point. If you aren't familiar it's Thomas Jefferson's very abridged (compared to other bibles) account of just Jesus' teachings, life and morals."

Ah. Much better focus, thank you. I've had the same idea, but found it easier to simply point the individual to obtaining a "Red Letter Edition" (preferably of a KJV or NKJV, but what have you. Biblehub . com / interlinear / book / ##-## . htm works *perfectly* for revealing the "nuances of original definitions" around *every word*, like: biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-4.htm ) < you need to *visit* that link to "see" the exploded definitions. It's "mind opening!"

J:> "If there were a Jeffersonian church near me I would be sorely attempted to attend."

Never knew there to be such a church, however, I *suspect* the new MAGA movement of the GOP / RNC is right along that line of ideology.

J:> "In that what you've posted is much closer to what I'd like to believe (even if I don't and can't.)"

Let's start with "belief," in the sense of "believing" in the sense of "bathing": Do you believe in bathing? (If so, then it is *most likely* that you bathe.) If one does "not believe" in bathing, chances are, that someone *may* be a homeless, mentally ill individual, the type seen defecating on the sidewalks and shooting up drugs on sidewalks in front of public schools, etc.

Now here's a "starting element" from which to develop a "full platform" of belief / beliefs / a personal ideology:

1) Reality Conforms to Thought.
(Try arguing *against* that and *see* what happens.)

2) Reality Conforms to Thought which conforms to Love, as one's heart conforms one's thought into reality. (Hence, families, growing farms, businesses, etc.)

3) That which *exists* "is logically TRUE" (=1) while that which does "not" exist, that which "isn't" (or "can't, won't," etc.) reflects the logically FALSE condition (= NOT 1, = ¬1, =0, = FALSE.)

#3 is *very important* in understanding *all* language (and thus, the *thought within* the word(s)) as language may be seen, heard, evaluated in two essential forms (like binary: 1 and 0):
1) Is-based ideology (that which *is PERFECTLY TRUE*) or
0) NOT-based ideology (that which is NOT.)
(See also:) discussingjesus.quora.com/UNDERSTANDING-THE-WORD-%CE%BB%CF%8C%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82-logos-LOGIC-of-GOD-As-the-Word-of-God-is-TRUE-thus-it-behooves-people-especi

#3b:
There is the *correct* (and very rare!) correct usage of "not", such as in [duality NOT] which reveals "Unity"— such as in the (4 or 5+) "nots" of Jesus:
Condemn NOT— (Luke 6:37)
Fear NOT— (Matthew 10:31)
Judge NOT— (Matthew 7:1)
Resist NOT— (Matthew 5:39)
Swear NOT— (Matthew 5:34)
all of which illustrate the principle of [duality NOT] thus they all express Unity, and *Only* Love Reveals Unity.
(In other words, Unity❤️duality, as 1❤️0, as TRUE❤️false, as Husband❤️wife, as Parents❤️child(ren) etc.)

Understanding this allows the individual to *easily* observe ("discern") as to whether the written (or spoken) word "is true" or "is not."

So here's a "crash course" in "not-based ideology":
To say that "Five is not one" may *appear* correct, *however*:
It analyzes thusly:
5 = NOT 1
5 = 0
thus, to say "five is not one" is to "speak falsely," which some folk refer to as "lying."

To say "One is one" is to say "1=1" which "speaks truly"— see the difference?

Now let's take a "look back" at what you wrote previously:

J:> "In that what you've posted is much closer to what I'd like to believe (even if I don't and can't.)"

Let's take the *first* part of that *alone*:
J:> "In that what you've posted is much closer to what I'd like to believe"

OK, that flows *very* easily, as every individual's own preference is what it is, thus, "speaks truly" for the individual. *Others* may *hear* and *observe* the truth of what is being said. Those who *understand* truth will simply acknowledge "TRUE" in some manner, or simply go on to the next element.

Now let's look at the *tail end* of that previous quote:

J:> "In that what you've posted is much closer to what I'd like to believe (even if I don't and can't.)"

Translation:
[TRUE (even if false and false.)]

That which is TRUE may be worked with, while that which is FALSE falls away, as one *cannot* work with a tool that does NOT exist — One can *only* work with a tool that *does* exist.

At any rate... to address that comment as a whole, I'd like to refer you to the teaching of Jesus, as recorded in Matthew 19:26— …“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

And now focus on the 2nd half of that observation: "...*with* God *all* things *are* possible.”

Think of it this way: Love = light, thus ❤️=💡.
Now contrast that with *no* love, and you get... {█} (nothing.)
Now remember: God *is* Love (1 John 4:8.) (Note the "is-based ideology"!)

Finally, one more take:
J:> "In that what you've posted is much closer to what I'd like to believe"
What *any* individual chooses to believe *or not* is that individual's *own* business, *per the 10ᵗʰ Commandment* (see Exodus 20:17, regarding *anything* that "is thy neighbor's.")

J:> "Franklin's belief sounds more plausible to me as well, but I really haven't delved into that either."

Franklin was his own self, pretty much, but to "evaluate" any specific idea, I need to "see" it in writing. (Audio / oral / aural is *much* more difficult, due to the dain bramage.)

J:> "I'm actually most attracted to the silly atheist reaction religions, because I find the whole of religions utterly ridiculous."

I *used* to think that "other religions are meaningless" because of the very strong "Christian bias" with which I was raised. But *then* I started to ask myself, "Why should I believe in *any* religion, much less *disbelieve*, unless I *first* 'check the tires, check the teeth,' etc.?"

Like: say you're gonna buy a car: Why? Do you just walk onto a lot and buy the first car available? Or do you use a "reasoned, researched" approach? (I can give you two major horror stories based on buying without research.)

So I started investigating 1) Christianity and 2) other religions (namely Islam) in order to determine contrasts & comparisons, looking for ideas (*any* idea) of value, much like sifting through the spoils of the outhouse looking for the gold ring that fell into the muck.

One of the first things that helped, was understanding *all* the Old Testament "points to" the New Testament, and *all* the New Testament *points to* Jesus. OK, so the lazy student in me wanted *only the Cliffs Notes* so I only studied the "red letters" (in the NT) of what Jesus actually says.

(I mean, if you're gonna pick a horse to win a race, what does that horse have to say for himself?)

I gotta tell you, His teaching started *challenging* my understanding of "logic." (That's a bit of a longer story that can wait for later.)

Meanwhile, I *did* understand that Christianity is what led to Western Civilization as we know it (succeeding where Roman civilization had failed) and also to the "why" methods and reasons as to why Christianity succeeds / grows (like fruit!) and *that* led to *trying* to find a contrasting / comparative idea within Islam. (Anybody with half a brain can *see* how disastrous Islam is to the world, but *why then* are so many people "suckered into" / trapped *by* it?)

Flashback to my youth, near very early teens, possibly even pre-puberty, when I hear the verse from Matthew 5:44, "LOVE thine enemies" — and thinking, "What the HECK is THAT supposed to mean???"

Finally, somewhere following the "dain bramage" from August of 2013, I start to study "the Sword Verse" from Islam, Qur'an 9:5, and having to "weed through" the "window dressing" of the "flood of words" to get it down to the essence of what it is saying: [KILL enemies.]

OK, well, "that *sorta* makes sense, but 'sounds fishy' for some reason," so I finally thought, "AHA! I have something *nearly comparable* between Christianity and Islam!" — So I've got [kill enemies] on the left, and [love enemies] on the right, so *now* what? "How do you *weigh* an idea????"

Simple: Put yourself *into* the variable of "enemies" and see how each idea *affects YOU* personally.

So "If I am my own, *greatest* of enemies, and Muhammad is telling me to [kill myself] on one side, and Jesus is teaching me to [love myself] on the other," then *suddenly* the Light simply came *ON!* ☀️