What chemical reaction makes paint stick to metal?
And what chemical reaction is it that removes it?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid> writes:
>What chemical reaction makes paint stick to metal?
>And what chemical reaction is it that removes it?
>
>Ron, the humblest guy in town.
>

You'd get a better answer quicker using google.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-spray-paint-stick-to-walls

On 3/19/2022 12:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid> writes:
>> What chemical reaction makes paint stick to metal?
>> And what chemical reaction is it that removes it?
>>
>> Ron, the humblest guy in town.
>>
>
> You'd get a better answer quicker using google.
>
> https://www.quora.com/Why-does-spray-paint-stick-to-walls

Maybe for walls but metal would be assumed to be nonporous. There could
be chemical interactions with the metallic surface such as oxidation on
the surface with maybe hydrogen bonding or chemical reaction between
paint and oxide or hydroxide on the metal. If there were an inert
boundary layer on the metal like oil, the paint would not stick. Even
finger prints can be a problem. To remove the paint, a solvent or
plasticizing agent would be required.

Frank <"frank "@frank.net> writes:
>On 3/19/2022 12:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid> writes:
>>> What chemical reaction makes paint stick to metal?
>>> And what chemical reaction is it that removes it?
>>>
>>> Ron, the humblest guy in town.
>>>
>>
>> You'd get a better answer quicker using google.
>>
>> https://www.quora.com/Why-does-spray-paint-stick-to-walls
>
>Maybe for walls but metal would be assumed to be nonporous.

As the article says, it's about adhesion. oil-based paints
are the gold standard for adhesion to metal.

> There could
>be chemical interactions with the metallic surface such as oxidation on
>the surface with maybe hydrogen bonding or chemical reaction between
>paint and oxide or hydroxide on the metal.

The cans of rustoleum at ACE adhere to metal just fine.

On Mar 19, 2022, Scott Lurndal wrote
(in article<news:vRoZJ.171592$f2a5.158283@fx48.iad>):

> As the article says, it's about adhesion. oil-based paints
> are the gold standard for adhesion to metal.

You seem to know the chemistry well based on your confidence level.
Is the paint sharing the hydrogen bonds or the hydroxyl groups?
And is the bonding covalent or electrostatic based on your knowledge?

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid> writes:
>On Mar 19, 2022, Scott Lurndal wrote
>(in article<news:vRoZJ.171592$f2a5.158283@fx48.iad>):
>
>> As the article says, it's about adhesion. oil-based paints
>> are the gold standard for adhesion to metal.
>
>You seem to know the chemistry well based on your confidence level.
>Is the paint sharing the hydrogen bonds or the hydroxyl groups?
>And is the bonding covalent or electrostatic based on your knowledge?

My chemistry training is well in the past, but as I recall,
the bonds are covalent (chemical) bonds.

On 3/19/2022 2:22 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid> writes:
>> On Mar 19, 2022, Scott Lurndal wrote
>> (in article<news:vRoZJ.171592$f2a5.158283@fx48.iad>):
>>
>>> As the article says, it's about adhesion. oil-based paints
>>> are the gold standard for adhesion to metal.
>>
>> You seem to know the chemistry well based on your confidence level.
>> Is the paint sharing the hydrogen bonds or the hydroxyl groups?
>> And is the bonding covalent or electrostatic based on your knowledge?
>
> My chemistry training is well in the past, but as I recall,
> the bonds are covalent (chemical) bonds.
>

Mine is four US patents on adhesion with fibers and resin.

On 2022/03/19 1:45 pm, Frank wrote:

>> My chemistry training is well in the past, but as I recall,
>> the bonds are covalent (chemical) bonds.
>>
>
> Mine is four US patents on adhesion with fibers and resin.

I have taken physics, inorganic, organic and biochem, but I wouldn't say I
know what makes paint stick to metal. They never talk about practical
things.

IMHO... It's not likely to be covalent bonding though, as heat doesn't seem
to be involved and it can be removed without damaging the metal underneath.

It's more likely to be electrostatic, IMHO, given the adhesion factor.
Maybe like how scotch tape sticks to metal?

But if someone knows how I would be edified by their explanation of how the
paint sticks so tenaciously once it's dried as one or more of the three
fundamental forces explained in the standard model are likely involved.
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:19:15 AM UTC-5, RonTheGuy wrote:
> What chemical reaction makes paint stick to metal?
> And what chemical reaction is it that removes it?
>
> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Is it close to whatever makes bathtub and toilet bowl rings?
Some weed spray leaves visible marks on the weeds.

On 3/20/2022 9:47 AM, John Robertson wrote:
> On 2022/03/19 1:45 pm, Frank wrote:
>
>
>>> My chemistry training is well in the past, but as I recall,
>>> the bonds are covalent (chemical) bonds.
>>>
>>
>> Mine is four US patents on adhesion with fibers and resin.
>
> I have taken physics, inorganic, organic and biochem, but I wouldn't say I
> know what makes paint stick to metal. They never talk about practical
> things.
>
> IMHO... It's not likely to be covalent bonding though, as heat doesn't seem
> to be involved and it can be removed without damaging the metal underneath.
>
> It's more likely to be electrostatic, IMHO, given the adhesion factor.
> Maybe like how scotch tape sticks to metal?
>
> But if someone knows how I would be edified by their explanation of how the
> paint sticks so tenaciously once it's dried as one or more of the three
> fundamental forces explained in the standard model are likely involved.

A quick Google gives all kinds of answers without specific chemistry but
recommend some paints over others which would suggest some kind of ionic
or chemical bonding. IMHO while metal surfaces are smooth and maybe
shiny they must have some oxide on the surface conductive to ionic or
chemical bonding depending on the paint.

On 2022/03/20 10:29 am, Frank wrote:

> A quick Google gives all kinds of answers without specific chemistry but
> recommend some paints over others which would suggest some kind of ionic
> or chemical bonding. IMHO while metal surfaces are smooth and maybe
> shiny they must have some oxide on the surface conductive to ionic or
> chemical bonding depending on the paint.

You're right about those observations especially about the metallic shine.

Metal shines because it is smooth enough to bounce light back into our eyes.
(That's simplified as electron emission energy levels are also involved.)

However metal is not smooth at the molecular level we're talking about.
And there is always going to be a metal oxide of some sort to deal with.

Why paint sticks to metal won't easily be found in a search.
It's probably answered somewhere but the right page will be hard to find.
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote
> Frank wrote

>>> My chemistry training is well in the past, but as I recall,
>>> the bonds are covalent (chemical) bonds.

>> Mine is four US patents on adhesion with fibers and resin.

> I have taken physics, inorganic, organic and biochem,

Me too except for the biochem.

> but I wouldn't say I
> know what makes paint stick to metal.

> They never talk about practical things.

That's bullshit with industrial chem.

> IMHO... It's not likely to be covalent bonding though, as heat doesn't
> seem
> to be involved and it can be removed without damaging the metal
> underneath.

> It's more likely to be electrostatic, IMHO,

Can't see that myself given how hard the best of it is to remove.

> given the adhesion factor.

> Maybe like how scotch tape sticks to metal?

Can't see that either. You don't get the same effect of dirt as you do
with that.

> But if someone knows how I would be edified by their explanation of how
> the
> paint sticks so tenaciously once it's dried as one or more of the three
> fundamental forces explained in the standard model are likely involved.