I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
1970. There are three measurement types:

"Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
into the calculation...."

This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".

I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
"superficie" (French for surface area).

--
And don't forget my dog, fixed and consequent

On Tue, 16 Apr 2024, at 11:27:15, Adam Funk posted:
>I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
>Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
>talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
>1970. There are three measurement types:
>
>"Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
>of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
>into the calculation...."
>
>This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".
>
>I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
>seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
>"superficie" (French for surface area).
>
It's obviously related, but "cognate" is too exact a term. Essentially
it's the Latin preposition meaning on the top, upon, or above, as well
as some more figurative meanings (besides, moreover, remaining...).
--
Paul W

On 16/04/2024 at 19:12, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2024, at 11:27:15, Adam Funk posted:
>> I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
>> Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
>> talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
>> 1970. There are three measurement types:
>>
>> "Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
>> of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
>> into the calculation...."
>>
>> This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".
>>
>> I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
>> seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
>> "superficie" (French for surface area).
>>
> It's obviously related, but "cognate" is too exact a term. Essentially
> it's the Latin preposition meaning on the top, upon, or above, as well
> as some more figurative meanings (besides, moreover, remaining...).

per metre² (or m⁻²) per metre super(script 2)?

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I DID NOT INVENT IRISH DANCING

Adam Funk wrote:

> I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
> Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
> talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
> 1970. There are three measurement types:

> "Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
> of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
> into the calculation...."

> This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".

> I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
> seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
> "superficie" (French for surface area).

Yes, the OED says,

"colloquial.

1768–

= superficial adj. A.1c. Now rare except in superfoot n.

Formerly chiefly as a postmodifier. In later use more usually as a
premodifier.

1768
Levil torus scirting, at per foot super. 0 [£] 0 [s] 2 [d].
J. Leadbeater, /Gentleman & Tradesman's Compleat Assistant/

1793
Common grey stock brick-work, in tarras, extra per foot
super on the face for every 4 inches deep.
/Builder's Price-book/ (ed. 10) 4

[more citations]

For that sense of "superficial" it has citations back to 1597
and says it's now rare.

In case I'm the only person who doesn't know "torus" and
"tarras", the former might be "A large convex moulding, of
semicircular or similar section, used especially at the base
of a column: resembling the astragal, but much larger."

"Tarras" is "A kind of rock, allied in composition to pozzolana,
consisting largely of comminuted pumice or other volcanic
substance; it is found along the Rhine between Cologne and
Mainz, and was formerly imported from Holland for making a
mortar or hydraulic cement. Hence, the mortar or cement made of
this, used for pargeting, lining cisterns, etc.; also applied
to other similar cements."

--
Jerry Friedman

On 2024-04-17, jerryfriedman wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
>> Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
>> talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
>> 1970. There are three measurement types:
>
>> "Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
>> of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
>> into the calculation...."
>
>> This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".
>
>> I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
>> seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
>> "superficie" (French for surface area).
>
> Yes, the OED says,
>
> "colloquial.
>
> 1768–
>
>= superficial adj. A.1c. Now rare except in superfoot n.
>
> Formerly chiefly as a postmodifier. In later use more usually as a
> premodifier.
>
> 1768
> Levil torus scirting, at per foot super. 0 [£] 0 [s] 2 [d].
> J. Leadbeater, /Gentleman & Tradesman's Compleat Assistant/
>
> 1793
> Common grey stock brick-work, in tarras, extra per foot
> super on the face for every 4 inches deep.
> /Builder's Price-book/ (ed. 10) 4
>
> [more citations]
>
>
> For that sense of "superficial" it has citations back to 1597
> and says it's now rare.

Fair enough.

> In case I'm the only person who doesn't know "torus" and
> "tarras", the former might be "A large convex moulding, of
> semicircular or similar section, used especially at the base
> of a column: resembling the astragal, but much larger."

I guess that's the fancy version. "Torus" is a very common style of
skirting board (AmE baseboard) in the UK.

<https://www.wickes.co.uk/featured/torus-skirting>

Now I wonder why the Latin word for "a swelling, bulge, knot; muscle,
brawn; bolster, cushion, couch, etc." was picked for the revolution of
a conic section.

> "Tarras" is "A kind of rock, allied in composition to pozzolana,
> consisting largely of comminuted pumice or other volcanic
> substance; it is found along the Rhine between Cologne and
> Mainz, and was formerly imported from Holland for making a
> mortar or hydraulic cement. Hence, the mortar or cement made of
> this, used for pargeting, lining cisterns, etc.; also applied
> to other similar cements."

That's new to me.

--
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
---President Muffley

Adam Funk wrote:

> On 2024-04-17, jerryfriedman wrote:

["super" referring to area]

>> 1768
>> Levil torus scirting, at per foot super. 0 [£] 0 [s] 2 [d].
>> J. Leadbeater, /Gentleman & Tradesman's Compleat Assistant/
...

>> In case I'm

not

>> the only person who doesn't know "torus" and
>> "tarras", the former might be "A large convex moulding, of
>> semicircular or similar section, used especially at the base
>> of a column: resembling the astragal, but much larger."

> I guess that's the fancy version. "Torus" is a very common style of
> skirting board (AmE baseboard) in the UK.

> <https://www.wickes.co.uk/featured/torus-skirting>

Somebody needs to tell the OED.

AmE maybe "rounded" or "stepped", by the way.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-baseboards/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9014eeb4993

We may like fancier baseboards than our British friends, though I'm not
in a position to say.

> Now I wonder why the Latin word for "a swelling, bulge, knot; muscle,
> brawn; bolster, cushion, couch, etc." was picked for the revolution of
> a conic section.
...

Maybe because of that molding around the base of a column.

--
Jerry Fredman

jerryfriedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>
> > I've been tidying up the bookshelves recently & found _The
> > Woodworker's Pocket Book Metricated Edition_, (c) 1971. The first page
> > talks about how timber is sold in the UK, metrically from 1 April
> > 1970. There are three measurement types:
>
> > "Per metre super. A metre super is a square metre and the wood can be
> > of any proportions that will give this area. Thickness does not enter
> > into the calculation...."
>
> > This is followed by "Per metre run" (length) and "Per cube (metre)".
>
> > I know what a square metre is but AFAIK this is the first time I've
> > seen it called a "metre super". I assume "super" is cognate with
> > "superficie" (French for surface area).
>
> Yes, the OED says,
>
> "colloquial.
>
> 1768–
>
> = superficial adj. A.1c. Now rare except in superfoot n.
>
> Formerly chiefly as a postmodifier. In later use more usually as a
> premodifier.
>
> 1768
> Levil torus scirting, at per foot super. 0 [£] 0 [s] 2 [d].
> J. Leadbeater, /Gentleman & Tradesman's Compleat Assistant/
>
> 1793
> Common grey stock brick-work, in tarras, extra per foot
> super on the face for every 4 inches deep.
> /Builder's Price-book/ (ed. 10) 4
>
> [more citations]
>
>
> For that sense of "superficial" it has citations back to 1597
> and says it's now rare.
>
> In case I'm the only person who doesn't know "torus" and
> "tarras", the former might be "A large convex moulding, of
> semicircular or similar section, used especially at the base
> of a column: resembling the astragal, but much larger."
>
> "Tarras" is "A kind of rock, allied in composition to pozzolana,
> consisting largely of comminuted pumice or other volcanic
> substance; it is found along the Rhine between Cologne and
> Mainz, and was formerly imported from Holland for making a
> mortar or hydraulic cement. Hence, the mortar or cement made of
> this, used for pargeting, lining cisterns, etc.; also applied
> to other similar cements."

Still used, for special purposes and restauration work.
('tras' in modern Dutch)
It is a bad mistake to use Portland cement for that.
Quite generally, joining material shouldn't be harder
than the materials it joins,
(if a building is supposed to last)

Jan

On 2024-05-01, jerryfriedman wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> On 2024-04-17, jerryfriedman wrote:
>
> ["super" referring to area]
>
>>> 1768
>>> Levil torus scirting, at per foot super. 0 [£] 0 [s] 2 [d].
>>> J. Leadbeater, /Gentleman & Tradesman's Compleat Assistant/
> ..
>
>>> In case I'm
>
> not
>
>>> the only person who doesn't know "torus" and
>>> "tarras", the former might be "A large convex moulding, of
>>> semicircular or similar section, used especially at the base
>>> of a column: resembling the astragal, but much larger."
>
>> I guess that's the fancy version. "Torus" is a very common style of
>> skirting board (AmE baseboard) in the UK.
>
>> <https://www.wickes.co.uk/featured/torus-skirting>
>
> Somebody needs to tell the OED.
>
> AmE maybe "rounded" or "stepped", by the way.
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-baseboards/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9014eeb4993

Thanks. I had to use a VPN to check that --- it's one of those stupid
websites that does "Access Denied" if your IP address is foreign.

> We may like fancier baseboards than our British friends, though I'm not
> in a position to say.
>
>> Now I wonder why the Latin word for "a swelling, bulge, knot; muscle,
>> brawn; bolster, cushion, couch, etc." was picked for the revolution of
>> a conic section.
> ..
>
> Maybe because of that molding around the base of a column.

That makes sense.

--
So you say I got a funny face
I ain't got no worries
And I don't know why
And I don't know why

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote or quoted:
>That makes sense.

For me, a torus is a kind of circular cylinder that's been bent
around so its end meets its beginning. So I can see how torus
and circular cylinder might seem kinda similar to some folks.

Now with these baseboards, you often see an ornamental cap up
top that's like a longitudinally bisected circular cylinder,
so for some it might seem like a sort of "half-torus".

| wall
| |
| |
| |
|_ thing
| )
||
|| floor
'----------------------

Stefan Ram wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote or quoted:
>>That makes sense.

> For me, a torus is a kind of circular cylinder that's been bent
> around so its end meets its beginning. So I can see how torus
> and circular cylinder might seem kinda similar to some folks.

The molding forms a ring around the base of the column. If you
could detach it, it would be a torus in your and my sense.

> Now with these baseboards, you often see an ornamental cap up
> top that's like a longitudinally bisected circular cylinder,
> so for some it might seem like a sort of "half-torus".

Or it could come from the shape of that molding on the column without
intervention from the inner-tube shape, or straight from the Latin for
"bulge".

Your artificial or natural intelligence is getting better at a colloquial
American style, but why be the only person here who writes "kinda"?
The Internet has better places for that.

> | wall
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |_ thing
> | )
> ||
> || floor
> '----------------------

As in Adam's and my links.

--
Jerry Friedman

Adam Funk asserted that:
> On 2024-05-01, jerryfriedman wrote:

>> AmE maybe "rounded" or "stepped", by the way.
>>
>> https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-baseboards/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9014eeb4993
>
> Thanks. I had to use a VPN to check that --- it's one of those stupid
> websites that does "Access Denied" if your IP address is foreign.

Stupid to not deal with EU regulations when all your important
customers are in the US?

/dps

--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."

Sam Plusnet

On 2024-05-02, jerryfriedman wrote:

> Stefan Ram wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote or quoted:
>>>That makes sense.
>
>> For me, a torus is a kind of circular cylinder that's been bent
>> around so its end meets its beginning. So I can see how torus
>> and circular cylinder might seem kinda similar to some folks.
>
> The molding forms a ring around the base of the column. If you
> could detach it, it would be a torus in your and my sense.
>
>> Now with these baseboards, you often see an ornamental cap up
>> top that's like a longitudinally bisected circular cylinder,
>> so for some it might seem like a sort of "half-torus".
>
> Or it could come from the shape of that molding on the column without
> intervention from the inner-tube shape, or straight from the Latin for
> "bulge".

I think that makes sense --- now that I know about the molding around
the base of a column. For me, the first meaning of "torus" is the
mathematical one; the second is the BrE shape of skirting board; the
third (as of last week) is the architectural one. Until then, I'd
always wondered (but not hard enough to look it up) why they named the
skirting board after a revolution of a conic section.

And another thing I won't discuss is fried foodstuffs --- that always
causes a fight (as Ted the Mechanic said).

--
So you say I got a funny face
I ain't got no worries
And I don't know why
And I don't know why

On 2024-05-02, Snidely wrote:

> Adam Funk asserted that:
>> On 2024-05-01, jerryfriedman wrote:
>
>>> AmE maybe "rounded" or "stepped", by the way.
>>>
>>> https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-baseboards/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9014eeb4993
>>
>> Thanks. I had to use a VPN to check that --- it's one of those stupid
>> websites that does "Access Denied" if your IP address is foreign.
>
> Stupid to not deal with EU regulations when all your important
> customers are in the US?

I doubt that Home Depot has a business presence in the EU that can be
kicked for it.

--
A firm rule must be imposed upon our nation before it destroys
itself. The United States needs some theology and geometry, some taste
and decency. I suspect that we are teetering on the edge of the abyss.
---Ignatius J Reilly

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:
>Now with these baseboards, you often see an ornamental cap up
>top that's like a longitudinally bisected circular cylinder,
>so for some it might seem like a sort of "half-torus".

| |On May 4, 11:17 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
| |wrote:
| |> On Wed, 4 May 2011 15:07:38 -0700 (PDT), Dave Baker <daveba...@gmx.com>
| |> wrote:
| |>
|>|> >"fillet", "fascia", "[torus]", "ovolo", "cavetto" ,"scotia", "cove"...
| |>
| |> Mouldings and the like of the architectural variety, I think.
| |
| |Yes it is, and can you add to it? It is difficult without a "complete
| |illustrated list".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Baker on 2011-05-04 23:36:43+00:00 in "alt.usage.english",
Subject: `What is this list a list of and can you add to it?`

Me:

What is this a list of: fillet, fascia, torus, ovolo, cavetto,
scotia, cove...?

Chatbot:

|This appears to be a list of architectural molding profiles or
|shapes. Architectural moldings are decorative elements used to
|add visual interest and define transitions between different
|surfaces or components of a building. The specific molding
|profiles mentioned in the list are:
| |Fillet - A narrow, flat, horizontal molding.
|Fascia - A broad, flat horizontal band or surface.
|Torus - A convex, rounded molding, often used as a base.
|Ovolo - A convex, quarter-round molding.
|Cavetto - A concave, quarter-round molding.
|Scotia - A concave, cyma-shaped molding.
|Cove - A concave molding, often used as a ceiling transition.

Me:

Do you know more designations like these?

Chatbot:

|Yes, there are many other common architectural molding
|profiles and designations beyond the ones mentioned in the
|original list. Here are some additional examples:
| |Cyma Recta - A molding with an S-shaped profile, consisting of
|a concave curve above a convex curve.
| |Cyma Reversa - The reverse of a cyma recta, with a convex
|curve above a concave curve.
| |Bead - A small, rounded molding, often used in a series.
| |Astragal - A small, convex molding, sometimes used to protect
|a door or window joint.
| |Ogee - An S-shaped molding, with a concave curve above a
|convex curve.
| |Quirk Bead - A bead molding with a small, square recess or
|"quirk" next to it.
| |Egg and Dart - A molding with an alternating pattern of
|egg-shaped and dart-shaped elements.
| |Dentil - A series of small, square blocks used as a
|decorative molding.
| |Modillion - A small, ornamental bracket used in a series under
|a cornice.
| |These are just a few examples of the many specialized molding
|profiles and designations used in architectural design and
|construction.

On Thursday, Adam Funk pointed out that ...
> On 2024-05-02, Snidely wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk asserted that:
>>> On 2024-05-01, jerryfriedman wrote:
>>
>>>> AmE maybe "rounded" or "stepped", by the way.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-baseboards/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9014eeb4993
>>>
>>> Thanks. I had to use a VPN to check that --- it's one of those stupid
>>> websites that does "Access Denied" if your IP address is foreign.
>>
>> Stupid to not deal with EU regulations when all your important
>> customers are in the US?
>
> I doubt that Home Depot has a business presence in the EU that can be
> kicked for it.

Simpler not to deal with the EU at all, until you need to, no?

-d

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl