This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.

ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.

I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.

'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
stumble on:

But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?

--
Rich Ulrich

Le 20/11/2023 à 19:55, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
> This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
>
> ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
> injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
> a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
>
> I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
> that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
> revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
>
> 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
> stumble on:
>
> But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?

A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a fancied,
imagined wrong.

Real revenge is revenge.

And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once one
starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking real
revenge.

So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 06:30:30 +0000, Hibou
<vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Le 20/11/2023 à 19:55, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
>> This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
>>
>> ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
>> injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
>> a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
>>
>> I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
>> that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
>> revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
>>
>> 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
>> stumble on:
>>
>> But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>
>A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a fancied,
>imagined wrong.
>
>Real revenge is revenge.
>
>And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once one
>starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking real
>revenge.
>
>So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.

Thanks. That's what I've concluded, though the phrase had
popped into my mind as if it made sense.

Even if it may have been used in the 1800s, now I expect
that it never became an idiomatic variation.

--
Rich Ulrich

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:30:36 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
> Le 20/11/2023 à 19:55, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
> > This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
> >
> > ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
> > injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
> > a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
> >
> > I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
> > that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
> > revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
> >
> > 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
> > stumble on:
> >
> > But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
> A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a fancied,
> imagined wrong.
>
> Real revenge is revenge.
>
> And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once one
> starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking real
> revenge.
>
> So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.

I can imagine it making sense if the writer and readers know that the action
won't hurt the person who the revenge is supposed to be on. For instance, if
the revenge is an attempt to cause the person to lose their job, but we know
that the person is about to quit the job and getting them fired or laid off will
be welcome and might even give the intended victim better terms than if they'd
quit, could that be "seeking fancied revenge"?

--
Jerry Friedman

Le 21/11/2023 à 18:26, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:30:36 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 20/11/2023 à 19:55, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
>>> This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
>>>
>>> ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
>>> injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
>>> a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
>>>
>>> I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
>>> that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
>>> revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
>>>
>>> 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
>>> stumble on:
>>>
>>> But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>>
>> A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a fancied,
>> imagined wrong.
>>
>> Real revenge is revenge.
>>
>> And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once one
>> starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking real
>> revenge.
>>
>> So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.
>
> I can imagine it making sense if the writer and readers know that the action
> won't hurt the person who the revenge is supposed to be on. For instance, if
> the revenge is an attempt to cause the person to lose their job, but we know
> that the person is about to quit the job and getting them fired or laid off will
> be welcome and might even give the intended victim better terms than if they'd
> quit, could that be "seeking fancied revenge"?

Well, I was starting to doubt, wasn't quite as definite as I sounded,
but I wasn't thinking of dramatic irony. If "He was seeking his dream"
is all right (it could be), then why not "He was seeking his fancied
revenge"?

My apologies to Rich for not delaying my post until this doubt had
crystallised.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 10:26:56 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:30:36?PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 20/11/2023 à 19:55, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
>> > This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
>> >
>> > ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
>> > injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
>> > a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
>> >
>> > I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
>> > that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
>> > revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
>> >
>> > 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
>> > stumble on:
>> >
>> > But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>> A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a fancied,
>> imagined wrong.
>>
>> Real revenge is revenge.
>>
>> And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once one
>> starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking real
>> revenge.
>>
>> So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.
>
>I can imagine it making sense if the writer and readers know that the action
>won't hurt the person who the revenge is supposed to be on. For instance, if
>the revenge is an attempt to cause the person to lose their job, but we know
>that the person is about to quit the job and getting them fired or laid off will
>be welcome and might even give the intended victim better terms than if they'd
>quit, could that be "seeking fancied revenge"?

Nice.

In that case, 'fancied' has an odd role and the whole message
is different. Or: He achieves 'a fancied revenge' (what he fancies
as revenge, but is no punishment) does not raise as much garden-
path confusion as /seeking/ that fancied revenge because fancied
(sort-of) contradicts what is being sought. "What he seeks is so
far an ill-considered revenge."

--
Rich Ulrich

* Rich Ulrich <5lsslitghuv3mttunsrchnm3f8t3o580ou @4ax.com> :
Wrote on Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:36:09 -0500:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 10:26:56 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:30:36 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 20/11/2023 19:55, Rich Ulrich a ecrit :
>>> > 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
>>> > stumble on:
>>> >
>>> > But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>>> A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a
>>> fancied, imagined wrong.
>>>
>>> Real revenge is revenge.
>>>
>>> And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once
>>> one starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking
>>> real revenge.
>>>
>>> So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.
>>
>>I can imagine it making sense if the writer and readers know that the
>>action won't hurt the person who the revenge is supposed to be on.
>>For instance, if the revenge is an attempt to cause the person to lose
>>their job, but we know that the person is about to quit the job and
>>getting them fired or laid off will be welcome and might even give the
>>intended victim better terms than if they'd quit, could that be
>>"seeking fancied revenge"?
>
> Nice.
>
> In that case, 'fancied' has an odd role and the whole message is
> different. Or: He achieves 'a fancied revenge' (what he fancies as
> revenge, but is no punishment) does not raise as much garden- path
> confusion as /seeking/ that fancied revenge because fancied (sort-of)
> contradicts what is being sought. "What he seeks is so far an
> ill-considered revenge."

Non native opinion: it just expresses the "seeking wanted revenge" from
the verb form which means to want or desire something.

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 07:25:26 +0530, Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:

>* Rich Ulrich <5lsslitghuv3mttunsrchnm3f8t3o580ou @4ax.com> :
>Wrote on Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:36:09 -0500:
>> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 10:26:56 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:30:36 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 20/11/2023 19:55, Rich Ulrich a ecrit :
>>>> > 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
>>>> > stumble on:
>>>> >
>>>> > But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>>>> A real or fancied wrong is straightforward - a real wrong or a
>>>> fancied, imagined wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Real revenge is revenge.
>>>>
>>>> And fancied revenge? It must be revenge at the dreaming stage. Once
>>>> one starts seeking it, one is seeking to realise it. One is seeking
>>>> real revenge.
>>>>
>>>> So I don't think 'seeking fancied revenge' makes sense.
>>>
>>>I can imagine it making sense if the writer and readers know that the
>>>action won't hurt the person who the revenge is supposed to be on.
>>>For instance, if the revenge is an attempt to cause the person to lose
>>>their job, but we know that the person is about to quit the job and
>>>getting them fired or laid off will be welcome and might even give the
>>>intended victim better terms than if they'd quit, could that be
>>>"seeking fancied revenge"?
>>
>> Nice.
>>
>> In that case, 'fancied' has an odd role and the whole message is
>> different. Or: He achieves 'a fancied revenge' (what he fancies as
>> revenge, but is no punishment) does not raise as much garden- path
>> confusion as /seeking/ that fancied revenge because fancied (sort-of)
>> contradicts what is being sought. "What he seeks is so far an
>> ill-considered revenge."
>
>Non native opinion: it just expresses the "seeking wanted revenge" from
>the verb form which means to want or desire something.

Thanks. This caused me to re-think. Maybe, in part, it was the
phrase 'Non native.'

My first reaction to this 'want' is, "too much tautology". That is,
putting 'revenge' on your agenda (I said to myself) already strongly
incorporates the notion of 'wanting to'. However, here is what I
cam up with.

I remember reading (and it was unfamiliar to me) about revenge
being a family social duty. Strong attention to appearances. Feuds
are one result.

That sets up situtations where the person 'seeking revenge' would
fancy (prefer) not to have the responsibility. Taking this broader
view where revenge may be an unwanted duty, 'seeking fancied
revenge' does add a flavor to the revenge. Not tautological.

--
Rich Ulrich

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 1:26:05 AM UTC+5:30, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.
>
> ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight,
> injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is
> a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.
>
I prefer 'fancied slights' to 'fancied insults'.
>
> I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think
> that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his
> revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults.
>
> 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would
> stumble on:
>
> But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?
>
'fancied revenge' is semantically correct but unusual.
It could be used like so, to paraphrase some observers'
inference about the latest war:
<<Israel's fancied revenge on Gazans is in actuality an effort to
limit Hamas' ability to wreak murder and mayhem.>>

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 1:26:05 AM UTC+5:30, Rich Ulrich wrote:
This usage of 'fancied' stirs my curiosity.

I say:
I'd say 'piques my curiosity'.

ngram shows me real or fancied * as: wrongs, grievances, slight, injuries, insult. None are very widespread these days. There is a big decline from earlier days to the 1980s.

I say:
I prefer 'fancied slights' to 'fancied insults'.

I was about to write, "seeks his fancied revenge" but now I think that is not a good use. Instead, I think I will go with, "seeks his revenge for fancied" wrongs or insults. 'fancied revenge' seems like something too many folks would stumble on: But is it both unfamiliar and wrong?

I say:
'fancied revenge' is little used but syntactically and semantically correct in some contexts. For example, it could be used like so, to paraphrase some observers' inference about the latest war:
Israel's fancied revenge on Gazans is in actuality an effort to limit Hamas' ability to wreak murder and mayhem.