<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :

"Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
the Royal Family."

Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.

On 09/09/2023 13:29, Hibou wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>
> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
> the Royal Family."
>
> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.

It doesn't seem to clarify _which_ English accent is being taught.
Wolverhampton? Norwich? Scouse?

On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>
> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
> the Royal Family."
>
> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.

Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school". You GMT English speakers across the pond call that "finishing school", I believe?

On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >
> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
> > classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
> > everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
> > over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
> > the Royal Family."
> >
> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>
> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school". You GMT English speakers across the pond call that "finishing school", I believe?

École d'étiquette et de protocole? comme décrit en français?

Le 09/09/2023 à 22:12, bruce bowser a écrit :
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>>
>>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
>>> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
>>> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
>>> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
>>> the Royal Family."
>>>
>>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>>
>> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school".

Interesting. I thought charm schools were for atomic blondes.

> You GMT English speakers across the pond call that "finishing school", I believe?
>
> École d'étiquette et de protocole? comme décrit en français?

I don't know, and can't find a single term. École d'étiquette seems
about right.

C'est là qu'on trouve les gens à particule (double sens - voir ci-dessus).

On 2023-09-09 19:57:11 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:

> On 09/09/2023 13:29, Hibou wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>
>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
>> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
>> 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
>> she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
>> member of the Royal Family."
>>
>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>
> It doesn't seem to clarify _which_ English accent is being taught.
> Wolverhampton? Norwich? Scouse?

Has to be Brummie, if you really want to sound classy.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 09/09/2023 à 22:12, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32?PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> >>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >>>
> >>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> >>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
> >>> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
> >>> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
> >>> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
> >>> the Royal Family."
> >>>
> >>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> >>
> >> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school".
>
> Interesting. I thought charm schools were for atomic blondes.

From the wrong side of the tracks?

Jan

On Saturday or thereabouts, Hibou declared ...
> Le 09/09/2023 à 22:12, bruce bowser a écrit :
>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>>>
>>>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>>>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
>>>> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
>>>> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
>>>> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
>>>> the Royal Family."
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>>>
>>> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school".
>
> Interesting. I thought charm schools were for atomic blondes.
>
>> You GMT English speakers across the pond call that "finishing school", I
>> believe?
>>
>> École d'étiquette et de protocole? comme décrit en français?
>
> I don't know, and can't find a single term. École d'étiquette seems about
> right.
>
> C'est là qu'on trouve les gens à particule (double sens - voir ci-dessus).

A quark of nurture?

/dps

--
Trust, but verify.

On 10/09/2023 06:40, Hibou wrote:
> Le 09/09/2023 à 22:12, bruce bowser a écrit :
>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>>>
>>>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>>>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
>>>> extra
>>>> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
>>>> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
>>>> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
>>>> the Royal Family."
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>>>
>>> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school".
>
> Interesting. I thought charm schools were for atomic blondes.

Or for giving flute lessons to chaps with snake-infested woven baskets.

On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 1:40:25 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 09/09/2023 à 22:12, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 5:02:32 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> >>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >>>
> >>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> >>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking extra
> >>> classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...] 'I get
> >>> everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,' she says
> >>> over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a member of
> >>> the Royal Family."
> >>>
> >>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> >>
> >> Here in the US, I think that's called "charm school".
> Interesting. I thought charm schools were for atomic blondes.

But, the first day those schools opened, they were forced to accept atomic non-blonds, too. Sorry.

> > You GMT English speakers across the pond call that "finishing school", I believe?
> >
> > École d'étiquette et de protocole? comme décrit en français?
> I don't know, and can't find a single term. École d'étiquette seems
> about right.
>
> C'est là qu'on trouve les gens à particule (double sens - voir ci-dessus).

Oui. Un seul type de protocole. Un seul type d’ettiquette. Imagine juste que.

On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:

> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>
> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
> 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
> she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
> member of the Royal Family."
>
> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.

That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
English.

For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 19:21:29 +0100
Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >
> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
> > she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
> > member of the Royal Family."
> >
> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>
> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> English.
>
> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t

Let us know say you agree to cookies
We use cookies to give you di best online experience. Abeg let us know if
you gree to all od dif cookies dem.

Yes, I agree
No, cari me go settings

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:22:11 PM UTC+1, Pamela wrote:
> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >
> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
> > she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
> > member of the Royal Family."
> >
> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> English.
>
> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t

We have to warn people that a BBC site is not a spoof?

Neither is this Wikipedia language. It was invented by an imaginative
American child who has never been to Scotland. You can sort of tell.

https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchar

On 2023-09-11 12:21, Pamela wrote:
> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>
>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
>> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
>> 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
>> she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
>> member of the Royal Family."
>>
>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>
> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> English.
>
> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t

I had to come back and make sure you said it is NOT a spoof.

A story title really caught my eye...

"India wan change im name to Bharat?"

--
There's an old saying about those who forget history.
I don't remember it, but it's good.
~ Stephen Colbert

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:52:11 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela wrote:
> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>
> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >
> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
> > she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
> > member of the Royal Family."
> >
> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> English.
>
> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
>
It's name is Naija or Nigerian Pidgin English. Calling it Nigerian pidgin
English makes it out to be a pidgin which it is not; it's a creole.

There was a controversy over the OED accepting some of its words as
English words:
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51448295>
I don't see any evidence that they're used in English sentences outside
Nigeria. John Masters' colonial British characters use Hindi words in
their English; I'm not sure how many of them are in the OED.

On 06:53 12 Sep 2023, Dingbat said:
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:52:11 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela
> wrote:
>> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>> >
>> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>> >
>> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
>> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent.
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your
>> > pronunciation,' she says over the phone, her manicured British
>> > accent sounding like a member of the Royal Family."
>> >
>> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>>
>> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
>> English.
>>
>> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a
>> spoof.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
>>
> It's name is Naija or Nigerian Pidgin English. Calling it Nigerian
> pidgin English makes it out to be a pidgin which it is not; it's a
> creole.
>
> There was a controversy over the OED accepting some of its words as
> English words: <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51448295> I
> don't see any evidence that they're used in English sentences outside
> Nigeria. John Masters' colonial British characters use Hindi words in
> their English; I'm not sure how many of them are in the OED.

A pidgin can turn into a creole as succeeding generations speak only
it.

However in the UK, I come across many Nigerians who speak their native
languages amongst themselves despite English being their country's
official language. I believe people ike them would be using Nigerian
broken English as a pidgin.

The distinction between pidgin and creole isn't really the issue here.

On 20:59 11 Sep 2023, lar3ryca said:
> On 2023-09-11 12:21, Pamela wrote:
>> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>>>
>>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
>>> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
>>> 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
>>> she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
>>> member of the Royal Family."
>>>
>>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>>
>> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
>> English.
>>
>> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
>
> I had to come back and make sure you said it is NOT a spoof.
>
> A story title really caught my eye...
>
> "India wan change im name to Bharat?"

Interesting. Rather like Burmah (Myanmar). Or even cities like Bombay and
Madras.

I'm too old to unlearn former names and intuitively use the new ones. :)

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 6:54:44 AM UTC-4, Pamela wrote:

> A pidgin can turn into a creole as succeeding generations speak only
> it.
>
> However in the UK, I come across many Nigerians who speak their native
> languages amongst themselves despite English being their country's
> official language. I believe people ike them would be using Nigerian
> broken English as a pidgin.

That is a racist remark.

Anyone who knows what "pidgin" and "creole" mean (see "Pamela"'s
first line above) also knows that a pidgin is not "broken" anything,
and neither _a fortiori_ is a creole.

> The distinction between pidgin and creole isn't really the issue here.

It is, however, important.

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes:
> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> English.
>
> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t

The Helsinki public transport route planning site always used to have
'slangi' as a language option. It's a messed up regional slang dialect
with bits of Finnish, Swedish, Russian, English, German, Somali, and
probably Martian from what I can tell. I think they probably thought
that, if the taxpayer was paying for 5 sensible languages already, a
6th one wouldn't be too much extra work even if it wasn't sensible.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:36:55 AM UTC-6, Phil Carmody wrote:
> Pamela <pamela.priv...@gmail.com> writes:
> > That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> > English.
> >
> > For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof.
> >
> > https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
> The Helsinki public transport route planning site always used to have
> 'slangi' as a language option. It's a messed up regional slang dialect
> with bits of Finnish, Swedish, Russian, English, German, Somali, and
> probably Martian from what I can tell. I think they probably thought
> that, if the taxpayer was paying for 5 sensible languages already, a
> 6th one wouldn't be too much extra work even if it wasn't sensible.

It's sensible if a significant number of people understood slangi better
than any of the other five languages. Or maybe as a PR move--we're
regular Helsinkians just like you.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela wrote:
> On 20:59 11 Sep 2023, lar3ryca said:
> > On 2023-09-11 12:21, Pamela wrote:
> >> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
> >>
> >>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >>>
> >>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> >>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> >>> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent. [...]
> >>> 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your pronunciation,'
> >>> she says over the phone, her manicured British accent sounding like a
> >>> member of the Royal Family."
> >>>
> >>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> >>
> >> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> >> English.
> >>
> >> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a spoof..
> >>
> >> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
> >
> > I had to come back and make sure you said it is NOT a spoof.
> >
> > A story title really caught my eye...
> >
> > "India wan change im name to Bharat?"
>
<https://unstop.com/blog/will-iit-iim-become-bit-bim-after-india-is-renamed-bharat>
>
> Interesting. Rather like Burmah (Myanmar). Or even cities like Bombay and
> Madras.
>
> I'm too old to unlearn former names and intuitively use the new ones. :)
>
Bharat Petroleum used to be Burmah Shell. Indians seemed to have no
trouble with the name change.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Petroleum>

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:24:44 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela wrote:
> On 06:53 12 Sep 2023, Dingbat said:
> > On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:52:11 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela
> > wrote:
> >> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
> >> >
> >> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> >> >
> >> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> >> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> >> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent.
> >> > [...]
> >> >
> >> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your
> >> > pronunciation,' she says over the phone, her manicured British
> >> > accent sounding like a member of the Royal Family."
> >> >
> >> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> >>
> >> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> >> English.
> >>
> >> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a
> >> spoof.
> >>
> >> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
> >>
> > It's name is Naija or Nigerian Pidgin English. Calling it Nigerian
> > pidgin English makes it out to be a pidgin which it is not; it's a
> > creole.
> >
> > There was a controversy over the OED accepting some of its words as
> > English words: <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51448295> I
> > don't see any evidence that they're used in English sentences outside
> > Nigeria. John Masters' colonial British characters use Hindi words in
> > their English; I'm not sure how many of them are in the OED.
> A pidgin can turn into a creole as succeeding generations speak only
> it.
>
> However in the UK, I come across many Nigerians who speak their native
> languages amongst themselves despite English being their country's
> official language. I believe people like them would be using Nigerian
> broken English as a pidgin.
>
'broken' is not a useful addition to 'Nigerian English'. Would you call
US English 'US broken English'?
>
> The distinction between pidgin and creole isn't really the issue here.
>
You made it an issue by calling it a pidgin. The Pidgin in it is its name,
not its description.

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:52:35 AM UTC-6, Dingbat wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:24:44 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela wrote:
> > On 06:53 12 Sep 2023, Dingbat said:
> > > On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:52:11 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela
> > > wrote:
> > >> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
> > >> >
> > >> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> > >> >
> > >> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > >> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> > >> > extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent.
> > >> > [...]
> > >> >
> > >> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your
> > >> > pronunciation,' she says over the phone, her manicured British
> > >> > accent sounding like a member of the Royal Family."
> > >> >
> > >> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> > >>
> > >> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> > >> English.
> > >>
> > >> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a
> > >> spoof.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
> > >>
> > > It's name is Naija or Nigerian Pidgin English. Calling it Nigerian
> > > pidgin English makes it out to be a pidgin which it is not; it's a
> > > creole.
> > >
> > > There was a controversy over the OED accepting some of its words as
> > > English words: <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51448295> I
> > > don't see any evidence that they're used in English sentences outside
> > > Nigeria. John Masters' colonial British characters use Hindi words in
> > > their English; I'm not sure how many of them are in the OED.
> > A pidgin can turn into a creole as succeeding generations speak only
> > it.
> >
> > However in the UK, I come across many Nigerians who speak their native
> > languages amongst themselves despite English being their country's
> > official language. I believe people like them would be using Nigerian
> > broken English as a pidgin.
> >
> 'broken' is not a useful addition to 'Nigerian English'. Would you call
> US English 'US broken English'?
....

That's called "leading with your chin".
--
Jerry Friedman

In article <ae24830e-0e62-4787-a13b-59543e04f3een@googlegroups.com>,
Dingbat <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:30:50#PM UTC+5:30, Pamela wrote:
> > On 20:59 11 Sep 2023, lar3ryca said:
> > > On 2023-09-11 12:21, Pamela wrote:
> > >> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
> > >>
> > >>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
> > >>>
> > >>> "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
> > >>> conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are taking
> > >>> extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British accent.
> > >>> [...] 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your
> > >>> pronunciation,' she says over the phone, her manicured British
> > >>> accent sounding like a member of the Royal Family."
> > >>>
> > >>> Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
> > >>
> > >> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian pidgin
> > >> English.
> > >>
> > >> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a
> > >> spoof.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
> > >
> > > I had to come back and make sure you said it is NOT a spoof.
> > >
> > > A story title really caught my eye...
> > >
> > > "India wan change im name to Bharat?"
> >
> <https://unstop.com/blog/will-iit-iim-become-bit-bim-after-india-is-renamed-bharat>
> >
> > Interesting. Rather like Burmah (Myanmar). Or even cities like Bombay
> > and Madras.
> >
> > I'm too old to unlearn former names and intuitively use the new ones. :)
> >
> Bharat Petroleum used to be Burmah Shell. Indians seemed to have no
> trouble with the name change.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Petroleum>

simply Burmah Oil originally

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 18:52 12 Sep 2023, Dingbat said:
> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 4:24:44 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela
> wrote:
>> On 06:53 12 Sep 2023, Dingbat said:
>> > On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 11:52:11 PM UTC+5:30, Pamela
>> > wrote:
>> >> On 13:29 9 Sep 2023, Hibou said:
>> >> >
>> >> > <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66569668> :
>> >> >
>> >> > "Even though many Nigerians speak perfect English in everyday
>> >> > conversations with family, friends and colleagues, some are
>> >> > taking extra classes to learn to speak with a polished British
>> >> > accent. [...]
>> >> >
>> >> > 'I get everyone's opinion but at least try to up your
>> >> > pronunciation,' she says over the phone, her manicured British
>> >> > accent sounding like a member of the Royal Family."
>> >> >
>> >> > Hmm. Might want to polish the phrasing next.
>> >>
>> >> That reminds me the BBC news site has a section in Nigerian
>> >> pidgin English.
>> >>
>> >> For those who haven't encountered this before, the site is not a
>> >> spoof.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/topics/c2dwqd1zr92t
>> >>
>> > It's name is Naija or Nigerian Pidgin English. Calling it Nigerian
>> > pidgin English makes it out to be a pidgin which it is not; it's a
>> > creole.
>> >
>> > There was a controversy over the OED accepting some of its words
>> > as English words: <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51448295>
>> > I don't see any evidence that they're used in English sentences
>> > outside Nigeria. John Masters' colonial British characters use
>> > Hindi words in their English; I'm not sure how many of them are in
>> > the OED.
>>
>> A pidgin can turn into a creole as succeeding generations speak only
>> it.
>>
>> However in the UK, I come across many Nigerians who speak their
>> native languages amongst themselves despite English being their
>> country's official language. I believe people like them would be
>> using Nigerian broken English as a pidgin.
>
> 'broken' is not a useful addition to 'Nigerian English'. Would you
> call US English 'US broken English'?

My addition does rather force more into the description than usual and
makes it slightly harder to understand.

>> The distinction between pidgin and creole isn't really the issue
>> here.
>>
> You made it an issue by calling it a pidgin. The Pidgin in it is its
> name, not its description.

"Pidgin" is surely both in its name and a description. I believe it is
incorrect to see it only as a creole, even if there are elements of
that occurring.