Ar an cúigiú lá de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

> Today there was a headline that read "XI EN FRANCE". What on earth does that
> mean, I thought? A football team, maybe? Then I realized that it was a
> reference to Eleven Jinpin, the leader of China. It would have been so much
> easier to understand at a glance if they had written "Xi en France". The French
> have yet to learn that mixed-case is much easier to read than all-capitals
> (especially on road signs, which have had mixed case in the UK for at least 40
> years). Road signs are better in neighbouring Spain, Belgium, Switzerland and
> Germany, a bit half-hearted in Italy and Luxemburg, and like France in Andorra
> and Monaco.
>
> The point of this post is to ask why people don't write things in as
> understandable a way as possible.

You know this, but in this case the unsatisfying answer is that it’s likely the
house style to put titles in capitals, deviation is not tolerated. Has this
publication been dragged forwards into the late 20th century enough to use
accents with its capitals?

(Cross-posted to sci.lang given not hugely relevant to alt.usage.english.)

> Navi won't agree, as he tries to pack as much
> meaning as possible in as few words as possible, but I hope others will.
>
> --
> ATHEL -- FRENCH AND BRITISH, LIVING IN MARSEILLES FOR XXXVII YEARS; MAINLY IN
> ENGLAND UNTIL MCMLXXXVII.
>

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Aidan Kehoe wrote:

> Ar an cúigiú lá de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Athel Cornish-Bowden:

> > Today there was a headline that read "XI EN FRANCE". What on earth
does that
> > mean, I thought? A football team, maybe? Then I realized that it was
a > > reference to Eleven Jinpin, the leader of China. It would have been so
much
> > easier to understand at a glance if they had written "Xi en France".
The French
> > have yet to learn that mixed-case is much easier to read than
all-capitals
> > (especially on road signs, which have had mixed case in the UK for at
least 40
> > years). Road signs are better in neighbouring Spain, Belgium,
Switzerland and
> > Germany, a bit half-hearted in Italy and Luxemburg, and like France in
Andorra
> > and Monaco.
> >
> > The point of this post is to ask why people don't write things in as
> > understandable a way as possible.

> You know this, but in this case the unsatisfying answer is that it’s
likely the
> house style to put titles in capitals, deviation is not tolerated. Has
this
> publication been dragged forwards into the late 20th century enough to
use
> accents with its capitals?

> (Cross-posted to sci.lang given not hugely relevant to
alt.usage.english.)

Older British road signs in capitals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pre_Worboys_Sign,_Meadrow.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Old_roadsign,_Blackawton.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Post-wat_AA_sign.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Motor_Sign_Posts_-_Pryke_%26_Palmer_-_1930_(cropped).jpg

Newer signs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic-signs-manual-chapter-3-diagram_602_(2008).svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic-signs-manual-chapter-3-diagram_601-1_(2008).svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_511.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_674.svg

Mixed with all-capitals and mixed-case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_783_(variant_1).svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg

Regards, ULF

ulf_kutzner wrote:

> Older British road signs in capitals:

I searched for road signs in Danish and looked at the pictures. It looks
like we use normal spelling, that is, first letter capitalised and names
capitalised. The only exception I found was a sign with "MAX 30 KM" and
the international sign which we can't shange: "STOP".

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

On 05/05/24 19:16, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

> (Cross-posted to sci.lang given not hugely relevant to alt.usage.english.)

You'd be surprised at the huge range of topics considered to be relevant
to alt.usage.english.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> ulf_kutzner wrote:

>> Older British road signs in capitals:

> I searched for road signs in Danish and looked at the pictures. It looks
> like we use normal spelling, that is, first letter capitalised and names
> capitalised. The only exception I found was a sign with "MAX 30 KM" and
> the international sign which we can't shange: "STOP".

A variant:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Road_signs_in_Denmark#/media/File:Border_crossing_Krus%C3%A5-Kupferm%C3%BChle5.JPG

A mixed variant:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Road_signs_in_Denmark#/media/File:Oresundsbron_tunneloppning_20120401_0115F_(8185892865).jpg

Regards, ULF

ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
>
> Mixed with all-capitals and mixed-case:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_783_(variant_1).svg
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>

Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?

Antonio Marques wrote:

> ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
>>
>> Mixed with all-capitals and mixed-case:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_783_(variant_1).svg
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>>

> Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?

Nope. When I was in England some years ago and drove to Oxford, I was
careful to avoid it. (I think there's only one.)

Do you know that it's named after a children's TV show, by the way?

https://www.bbc.com/historyofthebbc/anniversaries/october/magic-roundabout/

--
Jerry Friedman

Antonio Marques wrote:

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>>
>
> Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?

It's even worse to look at a map:

https://www.google.dk/maps/search/magic+roundabout,+cirencester/@51.5627837,-1.7717096,18.17z?entry=ttu

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

jerryfriedman wrote:

>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>>>
>
>> Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?
>
> Nope. When I was in England some years ago and drove to Oxford, I was
> careful to avoid it. (I think there's only one.)

You can find Hemel Hempstead Magic Roundabout in Google Maps.

The rest of the hits with "magic roundabout" are daycare centers or
nursery something.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

jerryfriedman wrote:

> Antonio Marques wrote:

>> ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mixed with all-capitals and mixed-case:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_783_(variant_1).svg
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>>>

>> Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?

> Nope. When I was in England some years ago and drove to Oxford, I was
> careful to avoid it. (I think there's only one.)
...

But there are four.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout

--
Jerry Friedman

On Tue, 7 May 2024 18:50:18 +0200
Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> Antonio Marques wrote:
>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
> >>
> >
> > Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?
>
> It's even worse to look at a map:
>
> https://www.google.dk/maps/search/magic+roundabout,+cirencester/@51.5627837,-1.7717096,18.17z?entry=ttu
>
Not Cirencester, Swindown (but GM ignores the name anyway)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Magic+Roundabout,+Swindon/@51.5629323,-1.7737572,17z/

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 May 2024 18:50:18 +0200
> Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
> > Antonio Marques wrote:
> >
> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
> > >>
> > >
> > > Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?
> >
> > It's even worse to look at a map:
> >
> > https://www.google.dk/maps/search/magic+roundabout,+cirencester/@51.5627837,
-1.7717096,18.17z?entry=ttu
> >
> Not Cirencester, Swindown (but GM ignores the name anyway)
>
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Magic+Roundabout,+Swindon/@51.5629323,
-1.7737572,17z/

Those small roundabouts do no really exist as roundabouts.
They are nothing but a (< 1 meter sized) dot on the pavement.

Unfortuantely Google has been scroogish with it.
You can only drive through it in a small number of ways.
They should really have driven their car all the many ways through it.
I guess that their software which puts in the arrows isn't up to it,

Jan

On 2024-05-07, jerryfriedman wrote:

> jerryfriedman wrote:
>
>> Antonio Marques wrote:
>
>>> ulf_kutzner <Ulf.Kutzner@web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mixed with all-capitals and mixed-case:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_traffic_sign_783_(variant_1).svg
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg
>>>>
>
>>> Am I the only one both puzzled and daunted by these 'magic' roundabouts?
>
>> Nope. When I was in England some years ago and drove to Oxford, I was
>> careful to avoid it. (I think there's only one.)
> ..
>
> But there are four.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout

Only the one in Swindon actually says that on the sign, though
(AFAICT).

--
really don't mind
if you sit this one out