London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

Lionel Edwards <lioneledwards61@gmail.com> writes:
>London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

Tyre wear:

|tyre wear particles are especially damaging due to the toxic
|chemicals that they are made from, which leach out of the
|particles into our rivers and oceans. These chemicals have a
|devastating impact on wildlife, and they accumulate into the
|food chain where they will ultimately pose a significant risk

, Washer Fluid:

|When we think about vehicle emissions, we often focus on
|exhaust fumes, but there’s more to the story. A recent study
|reveals that windshield washer fluid plays a larger role in
|real-world vehicle emissions than previously thought.

.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:

> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
"This is a zero-emission bus."

The meaning is that it's good for the planet.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:
>
> > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

> In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
> "This is a zero-emission bus."

I recently saw such a bus. I didn't remember what it said, but fortunately there's
this World-Wide Web thing. "all electric | zero emissions"

> The meaning is that it's good for the planet.

And for the city, since not only are the emissions reduced, they're at a power
plant, not in the city.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 4:40:59 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:
>
> > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?
> In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
> "This is a zero-emission bus."
>
> The meaning is that it's good for the planet.

How is it good for the planet? 1,700 trees a day are being cut down
*per day* in Scotland, to make room for wind-farms. That ruins the
tourist industry so I don't see how any of us are better off.

On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:

> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> I don't have a problem with the grammar,

I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
zero-emission bus"

> but the meaning?

No CO2; no NO2

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 5:18:41 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>
> > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > I don't have a problem with the grammar,
> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> zero-emission bus"
>
> > but the meaning?
>
> No CO2; no NO2

Are they electric? No.
If they were fully electric would they be "zero emissions"? No.

Lionel Edwards hat am 02.08.2023 um 18:25 geschrieben:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 5:18:41 PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>
>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>>> I don't have a problem with the grammar,
>> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
>> zero-emission bus"
>>
>>> but the meaning?
>>
>> No CO2; no NO2
>
> Are they electric? No.

Why do you think so?

> If they were fully electric would they be "zero emissions"? No.

Yes, as long as we only talk about exhaust fumes. Stefan made a valuable
contribution, but "traditional" buses share the problems caused by tyre
wear and washer fluid.

In article <84a53e02-e285-4b5c-9604-3b17bcae3e0an@googlegroups.com>,
Lionel Edwards <lioneledwards61@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 5:18:41#PM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
> >
> > > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > > I don't have a problem with the grammar,
> > I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> > zero-emission bus"
> >
> > > but the meaning?
> >
> > No CO2; no NO2
>
> Are they electric? No.
> If they were fully electric would they be "zero emissions"? No.

Zero emissions where they are - not zero emissions ever.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:51:52 AM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:

> > > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > > I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?
>
> > In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
> > "This is a zero-emission bus."
>
> I recently saw such a bus. I didn't remember what it said, but fortunately there's
> this World-Wide Web thing. "all electric | zero emissions"

Needs one hyphen.

Maybe in England slogans have to be full sentences.

> > The meaning is that it's good for the planet.
>
> And for the city, since not only are the emissions reduced, they're at a power
> plant, not in the city.

Unless the power plant is also zero-emission -- there's a fight up in the
Shetlands about drilling for more oil as opposed to building more wind
farms.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:54:10 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 4:40:59 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:

> > > London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> > > I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?
> > In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
> > "This is a zero-emission bus."
> > The meaning is that it's good for the planet.
>
> How is it good for the planet? 1,700 trees a day are being cut down
> *per day* in Scotland, to make room for wind-farms. That ruins the
> tourist industry so I don't see how any of us are better off.

Sounds like that country is pretty backward.

Unless what they're actually being cut down for is more golf courses
operated by a certain about-to-be-a-felon US politician and failed real
estate developer?

Our wind farms are either in vast windswept deserts or out at
windswept sea, just beyond the horizon (the Kennedys objected
to their being visible from their estate in Hyannis Port). I imagine
their substructure will be as beneficent for sea life as the "artificial
reefs" created by dumping the bare steel skeletons of old subway
cars, which are good for critters like oysters.

Claims that the windmills somehow interfere with whale life
appear to be groundless rightwing fabrications.

Lionel Edwards:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 4:40:59 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-4, Lionel Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>>> I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

I'd take that to mean that they don't emit greenhouse gases when in use.
I wouldn't expect that no GHGs were emitted in manufacturing them, in
supplying their energy, or in recycling or disposing of them. That's not
much different from the UK government's definition:

<https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/zero-emission-buses-local-authority-toolkit/zero-emission-buses-local-authority-toolkit#zero-emission-bus-technology>

That definition says that such buses must also achieve "a 50%
well-to-wheel greenhouse gas saving".

>> In AmE we might say "This bus is zero-emission" or much more likely
>> "This is a zero-emission bus."
>>
>> The meaning is that it's good for the planet.
>
> How is it good for the planet? 1,700 trees a day are being cut down
> *per day* in Scotland, to make room for wind-farms.

That's just over 600,000 a year -- a small fraction of what's planted.
The government estimated that 10,660 hectares were planted in 2020, with
about 2,000 trees per hectare. That's about 21 million trees. The target
for 2024/25 is half as much again:

<https://forestry.gov.scot/news-releases/positive-progress-on-tree-planting>

> That ruins the tourist industry so I don't see how any of us are better off.

Well, some of us are directly better off. Wind farms allow us to walk,
run, or cycle away from increasingly busy roads.

But even if wind farms do have a negative effect on tourism, tourism as
a whole is increasing:

<https://www.gov.scot/publications/tourism-scotland-economic-contribution-sector/pages/3/>

--
John

On 03/08/23 02:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>
>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions". I
>> don't have a problem with the grammar,
>
> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> zero-emission bus"
>
>> but the meaning?
>
> No CO2; no NO2

A previous Australian government put all of its efforts into "clean
coal". That presumably meant coal containing no carbon.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 03-Aug-23 0:55, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 03/08/23 02:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>
>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions". I
>>> don't have a problem with the grammar,
>>
>> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
>> zero-emission bus"
>>
>>> but the meaning?
>>
>> No CO2; no NO2
>
> A previous Australian government put all of its efforts into "clean
> coal". That presumably meant coal containing no carbon.

They probably meant it should be washed before shipping it off to China.

Not too far from here, a large concrete structure:
"Hafodyrynys Coliery Washery"
is a 'Listed Building'.

--
Sam Plusnet

Le 02/08/2023 à 17:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>
>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>> I don't have a problem with the grammar,
>
> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> zero-emission bus"

This bus does not emit anything harmful.

Put like that, it sounds odd - and unlikely to be true - which is fair
enough, because...

>>  but the meaning?
>
> No CO2; no NO2

.... forty percent of the UK's electricity is generated from gas.

Le 02/08/2023 à 16:29, Stefan Ram a écrit :
> Lionel Edwards writes:
>>
>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>> I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?
>
> Tyre wear:
>
> |tyre wear particles are especially damaging due to the toxic
> |chemicals that they are made from, which leach out of the
> |particles into our rivers and oceans. These chemicals have a
> |devastating impact on wildlife, and they accumulate into the
> |food chain where they will ultimately pose a significant risk
>
> , Washer Fluid:
>
> |When we think about vehicle emissions, we often focus on
> |exhaust fumes, but there’s more to the story. A recent study
> |reveals that windshield washer fluid plays a larger role in
> |real-world vehicle emissions than previously thought.
>
> .

Interesting. Brake dust too, I imagine.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 10:29:20 PM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
> Le 02/08/2023 à 17:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> > On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
> >>
> >> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> >> I don't have a problem with the grammar,
> >
> > I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> > zero-emission bus"
> This bus does not emit anything harmful.

Well, some of the passengers are a little iffy.

bill

>
> Put like that, it sounds odd - and unlikely to be true - which is fair
> enough, because...
> >> but the meaning?
> >
> > No CO2; no NO2
> ... forty percent of the UK's electricity is generated from gas.

Peter Moylan submitted this gripping article, maybe on Wednesday:
> On 03/08/23 02:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>
>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions". I
>>> don't have a problem with the grammar,
>>
>> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
>> zero-emission bus"
>>
>>> but the meaning?
>>
>> No CO2; no NO2
>
> A previous Australian government put all of its efforts into "clean
> coal". That presumably meant coal containing no carbon.

AIUI, "clean coal" means low-sulphur coal. Burning sulphurous coal
tends to produce various noxious compounds including sulphuric acid,
and these like to spread downwind.

ISTR that anthracite coal produces less soot, but I don't think that's
what "clean coal" refers to.

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

On 2023-08-02 09:17, Lionel Edwards wrote:
> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
> I don't have a problem with the grammar, but the meaning?

This sentence no verb.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:04:44 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 03-Aug-23 0:55, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 03/08/23 02:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
> >>
> >>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions". I
> >>> don't have a problem with the grammar,
> >>
> >> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
> >> zero-emission bus"
> >>
> >>> but the meaning?
> >>
> >> No CO2; no NO2
> >
> > A previous Australian government put all of its efforts into "clean
> > coal". That presumably meant coal containing no carbon.
>
> They probably meant it should be washed before shipping it off to China.
>
> Not too far from here, a large concrete structure:
> "Hafodyrynys Coliery Washery"
> is a 'Listed Building'.
>
Sadly it's just a cow shelter these days. But didn't the Nantyglo
concrete roofs get demolished?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brynmawr_Rubber_Factory

(yes)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 03-Aug-23 19:19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:04:44 +0100
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 03-Aug-23 0:55, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 03/08/23 02:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>>>
>>>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions". I
>>>>> don't have a problem with the grammar,
>>>>
>>>> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
>>>> zero-emission bus"
>>>>
>>>>> but the meaning?
>>>>
>>>> No CO2; no NO2
>>>
>>> A previous Australian government put all of its efforts into "clean
>>> coal". That presumably meant coal containing no carbon.
>>
>> They probably meant it should be washed before shipping it off to China.
>>
>> Not too far from here, a large concrete structure:
>> "Hafodyrynys Coliery Washery"
>> is a 'Listed Building'.
>>
> Sadly it's just a cow shelter these days. But didn't the Nantyglo
> concrete roofs get demolished?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brynmawr_Rubber_Factory
>
> (yes)
>

In that linked Wiki article, one of the 'links' which purports to lead
to Dunlop Semtex, actually takes one to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semtex

A material which is _not_ suitable for floor covering.

I wonder if this counts as Wiki humour?

--
Sam Plusnet

On Thu, 3 Aug 2023, at 06:29:15, Hibou posted:
>Le 02/08/2023 à 17:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2023-08-02 15:17:49 +0000, Lionel Edwards said:
>>>
>>> London buses carry the slogan, "This bus is zero emissions".
>>> I don't have a problem with the grammar,
>> I do. It could be "This bus has zero emissions" or "This is a
>>zero-emission bus"
>
>This bus does not emit anything harmful.
>
>Put like that, it sounds odd - and unlikely to be true - which is fair
>enough, because...
>
>>>  but the meaning?
>> No CO2; no NO2
>
>... forty percent of the UK's electricity is generated from gas.
>
"Hey, we've got this really interesting and complex natural product just
streaming out of the ground. What shall we do with it?"

"I know! Let's set fire to it, so we can keep warm."
--
Paul W