When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?

On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>

"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of its
use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the meaning:

"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec. a
person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
temporary severe mental illness"

"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace "feeble-minded".
OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual disability (spec.
with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".

Inevitably, these and other such would-be clinical terms have almost
immediately been appropriated for purposes of abuse.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 3:02:32 PM UTC-4, bozo de niro wrote:
> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon ...

And don't forget this new word 'eijit' that occam is using instead of the more appropriate Dutch 'eejit' or 'idioot'.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

>On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>>
>
>"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of its
>use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the meaning:
>
>"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
>be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec. a
>person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
>temporary severe mental illness"
>
>"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
>(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace "feeble-minded".
>OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual disability (spec.
>with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".

I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 1:02:32 PM UTC-6, bozo de niro wrote:
> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?

I'm happy to say I don't give a damn.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 30/06/23 10:24, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 1:02:32 PM UTC-6, bozo de niro wrote:
>> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>
> I'm happy to say I don't give a damn.

Bozo has probably heard those words more often than the rest of us.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
> >>
> >
> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of its
> >use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the meaning:
> >
> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec. a
> >person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
> >temporary severe mental illness"
> >
> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace "feeble-minded".
> >OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual disability (spec.
> >with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.

Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
<bebercito@aol.com> wrote:

>Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>> >>
>> >
>> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of its
>> >use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the meaning:
>> >
>> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
>> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec. a
>> >person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
>> >temporary severe mental illness"
>> >
>> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
>> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace "feeble-minded".
>> >OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual disability (spec.
>> >with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
>> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>
>Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.

He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
descendant of such a person."

Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
universe and human stupidity."

On 2023-06-29 22:20, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>>>>> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of its
>>>> use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the meaning:
>>>>
>>>> "A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
>>>> be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec. a
>>>> person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
>>>> temporary severe mental illness"
>>>>
>>>> "Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
>>>> (with some help from a Classics professor), to replace "feeble-minded".
>>>> OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual disability (spec.
>>>> with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
>>> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>>
>> Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>
> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
> descendant of such a person."
>
> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> universe and human stupidity."

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former.
—Albert Einstein

--
roses are 0xFF0000
violets are 0x0000FF
all my base
are belong to you

On 2023-06-30 02:17:34 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 30/06/23 10:24, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 1:02:32 PM UTC-6, bozo de niro wrote:
>>> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who first
>>> coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right question?
>>
>> I'm happy to say I don't give a damn.
>
> Bozo has probably heard those words more often than the rest of us.

Quite likely.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Le 30/06/2023 à 09:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-06-30 02:17:34 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>> On 30/06/23 10:24, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 1:02:32 PM UTC-6, bozo de niro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
>>>> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
>>>> question?
>>>
>>> I'm happy to say I don't give a damn.
>>
>> Bozo has probably heard those words more often than the rest of us.
>
> Quite likely.

If his clinician is using them clinically, that's not good.

On Usenet - well, parts of it, anyway - it's just normal dialogue.

Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
> >> >> question?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the
> >> >meaning:
> >> >
> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
> >> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec.
> >> >a person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
> >> >temporary severe mental illness"
> >> >
> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
> >> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace
> >> >"feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual
> >> >disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
> >
> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>
> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
> descendant of such a person."
>
> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> universe and human stupidity."

Indeed, not Einstein,

Jan

bruce bowser:

> And don't forget this new word 'eijit' that occam is using instead of
> the more appropriate Dutch 'eejit' or 'idioot'.

Usually <eejit>, IME, and not new: OED's earliest quotation is from the
mid-19th C. Not sure what Dutch has to do with it, either, since it
represents a regional pronunciation of English "idiot". Chiefly
Anglo-Irish according to the OED. It's often milder than "idiot", like
"maroon"--"moron".

--
John

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
>> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
>> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
>> >> >> question?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
>> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the
>> >> >meaning:
>> >> >
>> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
>> >> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec.
>> >> >a person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
>> >> >temporary severe mental illness"
>> >> >
>> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
>> >> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace
>> >> >"feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual
>> >> >disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
>> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>> >
>> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>>
>> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
>> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
>> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
>> descendant of such a person."
>>
>> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
>> universe and human stupidity."
>
>Indeed, not Einstein,

https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-13.jpg

Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
> >> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
> >> >> >> question?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
> >> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the
> >> >> >meaning:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
> >> >> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec.
> >> >> >a person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
> >> >> >temporary severe mental illness"
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
> >> >> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace
> >> >> >"feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual
> >> >> >disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
> >> >
> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
> >>
> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
> >> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
> >> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
> >> descendant of such a person."
> >>
> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> >> universe and human stupidity."
> >
> >Indeed, not Einstein,
>
> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-13.j
pg

That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)

Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',

Jan

--
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its
limits. (Variant: Two things are infnite: the universe and human
stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)"
Similar to Gustave Flaubert's "Human stupidity is infinite," written to
Guy de Maupassant, February 19, 1880. Thanks to Cécile Caccamo for this
source.
(A. Calaprice - The Ultimate Quotable Einstein)

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> Lodder) wrote:
>>
>> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
>> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
>> >> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
>> >> >> >> question?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
>> >> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the
>> >> >> >meaning:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
>> >> >> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec.
>> >> >> >a person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
>> >> >> >temporary severe mental illness"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
>> >> >> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace
>> >> >> >"feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual
>> >> >> >disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
>> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>> >>
>> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
>> >> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
>> >> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
>> >> descendant of such a person."
>> >>
>> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
>> >> universe and human stupidity."
>> >
>> >Indeed, not Einstein,
>>
>> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-13.j
>pg
>
>That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
>Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
>(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
>
>Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',

Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
reference:

Albert Einstein (2015). “Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century”, p.32, St.
Martin's Press.

But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
a sound quote.

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 5:04:16 AM UTC+5:30, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> >> >> <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
> >> >> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
> >> >> >> >> question?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
> >> >> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400, with the
> >> >> >> >meaning:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect as to
> >> >> >> >be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational conduct; spec.
> >> >> >> >a person permanently so affected, as distinguished from one with a
> >> >> >> >temporary severe mental illness"
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist H.H.Goddard
> >> >> >> >(with some help from a Classics professor), to replace
> >> >> >> >"feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild intellectual
> >> >> >> >disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and 70)".
> >> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
> >> >>
> >> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have bastardized
> >> >> the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas who escaped
> >> >> slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded settlement or a
> >> >> descendant of such a person."
> >> >>
> >> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> >> >> universe and human stupidity."
> >> >
> >> >Indeed, not Einstein,
> >>
> >> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-13.j
> >pg
> >
> >That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
> >Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
> >(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
> >
> >Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',
> Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
> ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
> reference:
>
> Albert Einstein (2015). “Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
> Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century”, p.32, St.
> Martin's Press.
>
> But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
> what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
> a sound quote.

1) Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former..

2) The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

It seems unlikely that Einstein made 2 differing comments about stupidity.
Re. the 2nd statement:
A precursor statement written in French appeared in volume 2 of the “Grand
Dictionnaire Universel du XIXe Siècle” (Great Universal Dictionary of the
Nineteenth Century) within an entry for “Bêtise” (Stupidity). This volume
was published circa 1865, and the quotation was credited to Alexandre
Dumas:[2]
<https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/07/28/genius/>

Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> >> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
> >> >> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
> >> >> >> >> question?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
> >> >> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400,
> >> >> >> >with the meaning:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect
> >> >> >> >as to be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational
> >> >> >> >conduct; spec. a person permanently so affected, as
> >> >> >> >distinguished from one with a temporary severe mental illness"
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist
> >> >> >> >H.H.Goddard (with some help from a Classics professor), to
> >> >> >> >replace "feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild
> >> >> >> >intellectual disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and
> >> >> >> >70)".
> >> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
> >> >>
> >> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have
> >> >> bastardized the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas
> >> >> who escaped slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded
> >> >> settlement or a descendant of such a person."
> >> >>
> >> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> >> >> universe and human stupidity."
> >> >
> >> >Indeed, not Einstein,
> >>
> >> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-1
3.j
> >pg
> >
> >That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
> >Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
> >(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
> >
> >Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',
>
> Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
> ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
> reference:

There is no retutable source.
And I gave you the best source for 'the quotable Einstein' already.
(again in sig)

> Albert Einstein (2015). "Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
> Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century‰, p.32, St.
> Martin's Press.

Sorry, don't have the book, can't tell you.
A looks more like amusement than a serious scholarly work.
BTW, there are several other compilations like that.

> But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
> what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
> a sound quote.

For nearly inaudible values of 'sound'.

But my main reason for thinking it is not Einstein
is that it is out of character.
Einstein was not the arrogant genius who thought everybody else stupid.
What's more, he thoroughly disliked people who did, like David Hilbert.

Einstein accused Hilbert of having an 'Uebermensch-Komplex',
that is, appearing to be of superior genius
by first leaving out several intermediate steps,
and next claiming that a superior genius like himself
sees these at once. (the 'now one easily sees' trick)

Jan

--
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its
limits. (Variant: Two things are infinite: the universe and human
stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)"
Similar to Gustave Flaubert's "Human stupidity is infinite," written to
Guy de Maupassant, February 19, 1880. Thanks to Cécile Caccamo for this
source.
(Alice Calaprice - The Ultimate Quotable Einstein)

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 10:41:18 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> Lodder) wrote:
>>
>> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> >> Lodder) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
>> >> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon and who
>> >> >> >> >> first coined and used the terms clinically if that's the right
>> >> >> >> >> question?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has examples of
>> >> >> >> >its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts from 1400,
>> >> >> >> >with the meaning:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or intellect
>> >> >> >> >as to be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or rational
>> >> >> >> >conduct; spec. a person permanently so affected, as
>> >> >> >> >distinguished from one with a temporary severe mental illness"
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist
>> >> >> >> >H.H.Goddard (with some help from a Classics professor), to
>> >> >> >> >replace "feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with mild
>> >> >> >> >intellectual disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50 and
>> >> >> >> >70)".
>> >> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have
>> >> >> bastardized the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the Americas
>> >> >> who escaped slavery and formed or joined a free and often secluded
>> >> >> settlement or a descendant of such a person."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
>> >> >> universe and human stupidity."
>> >> >
>> >> >Indeed, not Einstein,
>> >>
>> >> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quote-1
>3.j
>> >pg
>> >
>> >That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
>> >Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
>> >(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
>> >
>> >Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',
>>
>> Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
>> ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
>> reference:
>
>There is no retutable source.
>And I gave you the best source for 'the quotable Einstein' already.
>(again in sig)
>
>> Albert Einstein (2015). "Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
>> Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century‰, p.32, St.
>> Martin's Press.
>
>Sorry, don't have the book, can't tell you.
>A looks more like amusement than a serious scholarly work.
>BTW, there are several other compilations like that.
>
>> But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
>> what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
>> a sound quote.
>
>For nearly inaudible values of 'sound'.
>
>But my main reason for thinking it is not Einstein
>is that it is out of character.
>Einstein was not the arrogant genius who thought everybody else stupid.
>What's more, he thoroughly disliked people who did, like David Hilbert.
>
>Einstein accused Hilbert of having an 'Uebermensch-Komplex',
>that is, appearing to be of superior genius
>by first leaving out several intermediate steps,
>and next claiming that a superior genius like himself
>sees these at once. (the 'now one easily sees' trick)

Doesn't matter. The quote was intended to point out the stupidity of
bastardizing the origin of Bugs Bunny's frequent mention of the word
"maroon", which is a twisted version of the word "moron" and has
nothing to do with black slaves. That's all. It matters mot who said
it - and Einstein could have been the author and is generally given
credit for it.

Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 10:41:18 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
> >> >> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark
> >> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon
> >> >> >> >> >> and who first coined and used the terms clinically if
> >> >> >> >> >> that's the right question?
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has
> >> >> >> >> >examples of its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts
> >> >> >> >> >from 1400, with the meaning:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or
> >> >> >> >> >intellect as to be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or
> >> >> >> >> >rational conduct; spec. a person permanently so affected, as
> >> >> >> >> >distinguished from one with a temporary severe mental
> >> >> >> >> >illness"
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist
> >> >> >> >> >H.H.Goddard (with some help from a Classics professor), to
> >> >> >> >> >replace "feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with
> >> >> >> >> >mild intellectual disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50
> >> >> >> >> >and 70)".
> >> >> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have
> >> >> >> bastardized the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the
> >> >> >> Americas who escaped slavery and formed or joined a free and
> >> >> >> often secluded settlement or a descendant of such a person."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
> >> >> >> universe and human stupidity."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Indeed, not Einstein,
> >> >>
> >> >> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quot
e-1
> >3.j
> >> >pg
> >> >
> >> >That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
> >> >Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
> >> >(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
> >> >
> >> >Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',
> >>
> >> Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
> >> ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
> >> reference:
> >
> >There is no retutable source.
> >And I gave you the best source for 'the quotable Einstein' already.
> >(again in sig)
> >
> >> Albert Einstein (2015). "Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
> >> Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century≈, p.32, St.
> >> Martin's Press.
> >
> >Sorry, don't have the book, can't tell you.
> >A looks more like amusement than a serious scholarly work.
> >BTW, there are several other compilations like that.
> >
> >> But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
> >> what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
> >> a sound quote.
> >
> >For nearly inaudible values of 'sound'.
> >
> >But my main reason for thinking it is not Einstein
> >is that it is out of character.
> >Einstein was not the arrogant genius who thought everybody else stupid.
> >What's more, he thoroughly disliked people who did, like David Hilbert.
> >
> >Einstein accused Hilbert of having an 'Uebermensch-Komplex',
> >that is, appearing to be of superior genius
> >by first leaving out several intermediate steps,
> >and next claiming that a superior genius like himself
> >sees these at once. (the 'now one easily sees' trick)
>
> Doesn't matter. The quote was intended to point out the stupidity of
> bastardizing the origin of Bugs Bunny's frequent mention of the word
> "maroon", which is a twisted version of the word "moron" and has
> nothing to do with black slaves. That's all. It matters mot who said
> it - and Einstein could have been the author and is generally given
> credit for it.

A mistake obviously. In case of doubt attribute to GBS,

Jan

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 14:24:03 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 10:41:18 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> Lodder) wrote:
>>
>> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:49:29 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> >> Lodder) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:45:37 +0200, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> >> >> Lodder) wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Mack A. Damia <drsteerforth@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
>> >> >> >> <bebercito@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Le vendredi 30 juin 2023 à 02:22:27 UTC+2, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:50:04 +1200, Ross Clark
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >On 30/06/2023 7:02 a.m., bozo de niro wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> When did the words "moron" and "idiot" enter the lexicon
>> >> >> >> >> >> and who first coined and used the terms clinically if
>> >> >> >> >> >> that's the right question?
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >"Idiot" has been around since the 14th century. OED has
>> >> >> >> >> >examples of its use in legal (and later psychiatric) contexts
>> >> >> >> >> >from 1400, with the meaning:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >"A person so profoundly disabled in mental function or
>> >> >> >> >> >intellect as to be incapable of ordinary acts of reasoning or
>> >> >> >> >> >rational conduct; spec. a person permanently so affected, as
>> >> >> >> >> >distinguished from one with a temporary severe mental
>> >> >> >> >> >illness"
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >"Moron" was coined about 1910 by the American psychologist
>> >> >> >> >> >H.H.Goddard (with some help from a Classics professor), to
>> >> >> >> >> >replace "feeble-minded". OED's definition is "a person with
>> >> >> >> >> >mild intellectual disability (spec. with an IQ of between 50
>> >> >> >> >> >and 70)".
>> >> >> >> >> I thought it was Bugs Bunny who came up with the name.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Bugs Bunny is no dumb bunny, though.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> He pronounces it "maroon", although idiots on Google have
>> >> >> >> bastardized the meaning; some say, "a Black person of the
>> >> >> >> Americas who escaped slavery and formed or joined a free and
>> >> >> >> often secluded settlement or a descendant of such a person."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Reminds me. Was it Einstein? "Two things that are infinite: The
>> >> >> >> universe and human stupidity."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Indeed, not Einstein,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://wellnessworks.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Albert-Einstein-quot
>e-1
>> >3.j
>> >> >pg
>> >> >
>> >> >That is not a source with a link to Einstein.
>> >> >Anyone can grab quotes 'by Einstein from the net.
>> >> >(or by Mark Twain, or GWS, or Oscar Wilde, or....)
>> >> >
>> >> >Listed in the reputable source under: 'Probably not by Einstein',
>> >>
>> >> Then post your reputable source because all entries through Google
>> >> ascribe the quote to Einstein, incluidng this one that provides a
>> >> reference:
>> >
>> >There is no retutable source.
>> >And I gave you the best source for 'the quotable Einstein' already.
>> >(again in sig)
>> >
>> >> Albert Einstein (2015). "Bite-Size Einstein: Quotations on Just About
>> >> Everything from the Greatest Mind of the Twentieth Century?, p.32, St.
>> >> Martin's Press.
>> >
>> >Sorry, don't have the book, can't tell you.
>> >A looks more like amusement than a serious scholarly work.
>> >BTW, there are several other compilations like that.
>> >
>> >> But the source of the quote is actually unproven. Something about
>> >> what he said it to Fritz Perls one day. Doesn't matter. It is still
>> >> a sound quote.
>> >
>> >For nearly inaudible values of 'sound'.
>> >
>> >But my main reason for thinking it is not Einstein
>> >is that it is out of character.
>> >Einstein was not the arrogant genius who thought everybody else stupid.
>> >What's more, he thoroughly disliked people who did, like David Hilbert.
>> >
>> >Einstein accused Hilbert of having an 'Uebermensch-Komplex',
>> >that is, appearing to be of superior genius
>> >by first leaving out several intermediate steps,
>> >and next claiming that a superior genius like himself
>> >sees these at once. (the 'now one easily sees' trick)
>>
>> Doesn't matter. The quote was intended to point out the stupidity of
>> bastardizing the origin of Bugs Bunny's frequent mention of the word
>> "maroon", which is a twisted version of the word "moron" and has
>> nothing to do with black slaves. That's all. It matters mot who said
>> it - and Einstein could have been the author and is generally given
>> credit for it.
>
>A mistake obviously. In case of doubt attribute to GBS,

https://i.enkiquotes.com/mUJAU7NrvN1rTYjDHsSiTTq4QXM=/800x0//images/2016/11/3d85d6786ddbe4de84cacf856b293559.jpg

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 8:05:36 AM UTC-6, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 14:24:03 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:

["Two things that are infinite"]

> >> Doesn't matter. The quote was intended to point out the stupidity of
> >> bastardizing the origin of Bugs Bunny's frequent mention of the word
> >> "maroon", which is a twisted version of the word "moron" and has
> >> nothing to do with black slaves. That's all. It matters mot who said
> >> it - and Einstein could have been the author and is generally given
> >> credit for it.
> >
> >A mistake obviously. In case of doubt attribute to GBS,

> https://i.enkiquotes.com/mUJAU7NrvN1rTYjDHsSiTTq4QXM=/800x0//images/2016/11/3d85d6786ddbe4de84cacf856b293559.jpg

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

W. B. Yeats, "The Second Coming"

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming

--
Jerry Friedman

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:17:35 AM UTC-4, John Dunlop wrote:
> bruce bowser:
> > And don't forget this new word 'eijit' that occam is using instead of
> > the more appropriate Dutch 'eejit' or 'idioot'.
> Usually <eejit>, IME, and not new: OED's earliest quotation is from the
> mid-19th C. Not sure what Dutch has to do with it

Par for the course. That's when we seek a reference, right?

-- https://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/EN/NL/eejit
('my dictionary' means 'mijnwoordenboek').

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 12:38:48 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:17:35 AM UTC-4, John Dunlop wrote:
> > bruce bowser:
> > > And don't forget this new word 'eijit' that occam is using instead of
> > > the more appropriate Dutch 'eejit' or 'idioot'.
> > Usually <eejit>, IME, and not new: OED's earliest quotation is from the
> > mid-19th C. Not sure what Dutch has to do with it
> Par for the course. That's when we seek a reference, right?
>
> -- https://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/EN/NL/eejit
> ('my dictionary' means 'mijnwoordenboek').

Example 'Ach, wat een eejit is die man"

Afscheid van Ierland: een onvergetelijk
Google Books - Book by Ann Moore · 2012 · ‎Fiction:
-- https://books.google.com/books?id=UT96AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT128&lpg=PT128&dq=dat+klaar+eejit+-and+-the+-of+-cambridge&source=bl&ots=EOBLX1x323&sig=ACfU3U32j0NiuBgIdM5MgRUFjO4QlDxydA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEvsbl_u3_AhVVkIkEHeR1DxIQ6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q=dat%20klaar%20eejit%20-and%20-the%20-of%20-cambridge&f=false

bruce bowser:
> On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:17:35 AM UTC-4, John Dunlop wrote:
>> bruce bowser:
>>> And don't forget this new word 'eijit' that occam is using instead of
>>> the more appropriate Dutch 'eejit' or 'idioot'.
>> Usually <eejit>, IME, and not new: OED's earliest quotation is from the
>> mid-19th C. Not sure what Dutch has to do with it
>
> Par for the course. That's when we seek a reference, right?
>
> -- https://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/EN/NL/eejit
> ('my dictionary' means 'mijnwoordenboek').

Still none the wiser what Dutch has to do with it. What are the odds an
Anglophone is injecting a Dutch word into their writing rather than
using the English word "eejit"?

--
John