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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: fail

SubjectAuthor
* failarthurvv vart
`* Re: failHibou
 +- Re: failPeter Moylan
 `- Re: failPeter T. Daniels

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fail

<95e43f21-1d1b-45d0-bb73-11d8227e9688n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: fail
From: arthurv...@gmail.com (arthurvv vart)
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 by: arthurvv vart - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 08:14 UTC

I was looking up the meanings of 'catch' in the AHD.

https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=catch

Number 11 was: To deceive

The problem was the example phrase:

"failed to be caught by their fraudulent schemes."

Don't you find that strange?

Can one fail to be deceived?
Would you consider that failing.

Can 'fail' ever mean 'manage not to'? Or simply 'not to'?

Can 'failure' be used in this way?

Gratefully,
Navi

Re: fail

<u78ugb$e9lq$3@dont-email.me>

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From: vpaereru...@yahoo.com.invalid (Hibou)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: fail
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 09:39:39 +0100
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 by: Hibou - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 08:39 UTC

Le 25/06/2023 à 09:14, arthurvv vart a écrit :
> I was looking up the meanings of 'catch' in the AHD.
>
> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=catch
>
> Number 11 was: To deceive
>
> The problem was the example phrase:
>
> "failed to be caught by their fraudulent schemes."
>
> Don't you find that strange?

Not if one is taking the fraudsters' point of view.

> Can one fail to be deceived?
> Would you consider that failing.
>
> Can 'fail' ever mean 'manage not to'? Or simply 'not to'?

Yes. "The bomb failed to explode":

<https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/fail>, Sense 3

> Can 'failure' be used in this way?

Re: fail

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: fail
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 21:19:41 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:19 UTC

On 25/06/23 18:39, Hibou wrote:
> Le 25/06/2023 à 09:14, arthurvv vart a écrit :
>> I was looking up the meanings of 'catch' in the AHD.
>>
>> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=catch
>>
>> Number 11 was: To deceive
>>
>> The problem was the example phrase:
>>
>> "failed to be caught by their fraudulent schemes."
>>
>> Don't you find that strange?
>
> Not if one is taking the fraudsters' point of view.
>
>> Can one fail to be deceived? Would you consider that failing.
>>
>> Can 'fail' ever mean 'manage not to'? Or simply 'not to'?
>
> Yes. "The bomb failed to explode":
>
> <https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/fail>, Sense 3
>
>> Can 'failure' be used in this way?

"The bomb failed to explode" is a failure from the bomb's point of view,
because it was the bomb's intention, if I can be so anthropomorphic, to
explode.

Similarly, "The scammers failed to fool him" is a genuine failure, from
the viewpoint of the subject. But, turning it around, "He failed to be
fooled by the scammers" is not quite as acceptable, because it is not a
failure from the point of view of "he".

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: fail

<cdc28567-8b87-4fd9-83ea-5d801210cd24n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: fail
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:57 UTC

On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 4:39:44 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 25/06/2023 à 09:14, arthurvv vart a écrit :

[piggybacking]
> > I was looking up the meanings of 'catch' in the AHD.
> > https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=catch
> > Number 11 was: To deceive
> > The problem was the example phrase:
> > "failed to be caught by their fraudulent schemes."
> > Don't you find that strange?

Hmm. There's a big blank space at the foot of arthur-Navi's
message, and "Reply" doesn't work.

What I intended to say was,
And that shows why we don't use AHD for anything but the etymologies.

interests / alt.usage.english / Re: fail

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