Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Better tried by twelve than carried by six. -- Jeff Cooper


interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

SubjectAuthor
* Shouldn't this be past tense?Paul Epstein
+* Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Peter Moylan
|`- Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Peter T. Daniels
+- Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Stefan Ram
`* Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Ross Clark
 `* Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Paul Epstein
  `- Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?Paul Epstein

1
Shouldn't this be past tense?

<8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181380&group=alt.usage.english#181380

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a2a:b0:3f9:a9e1:cea6 with SMTP id f42-20020a05622a1a2a00b003f9a9e1cea6mr2157465qtb.10.1686484661091;
Sun, 11 Jun 2023 04:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:d941:0:b0:39c:b0f7:614a with SMTP id
q62-20020acad941000000b0039cb0f7614amr1068093oig.8.1686484660806; Sun, 11 Jun
2023 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Shouldn't this be past tense?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (Paul Epstein)
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 11:57:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1401
 by: Paul Epstein - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 11:57 UTC

A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:

You could be packed up and ready.
Knowing exactly where to go.
How come you miss the connection?
No use in asking.
The answer is "Nobody knows".

Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
Or is there a good reason for the present tense?

The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU

Thank You,

Paul Epstein

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<u64dr4$2mlnq$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181382&group=alt.usage.english#181382

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 22:14:27 +1000
Organization: Dis
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <u64dr4$2mlnq$2@dont-email.me>
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:14:28 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="3d5a024ac685387aee379c0ca58012cd";
logging-data="2840314"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/yG1TJf2b7L497A/N6R7AF"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/38.8.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zQd1BrR/Q+2hrugel4K8viQNFS4=
In-Reply-To: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
 by: Peter Moylan - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:14 UTC

On 11/06/23 21:57, Paul Epstein wrote:
> A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:
>
> You could be packed up and ready.
> Knowing exactly where to go.
> How come you miss the connection?
> No use in asking.
> The answer is "Nobody knows".
>
> Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
> Or is there a good reason for the present tense?
>
> The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU

The choice of tense looks OK to me. I believe it's technically called
the present habitual tense.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<narration-20230611162521@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181391&group=alt.usage.english#181391

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news-1.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!news1.uni-leipzig.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
Date: 11 Jun 2023 15:27:26 GMT
Organization: Stefan Ram
Lines: 22
Expires: 1 Jul 2024 11:59:58 GMT
Message-ID: <narration-20230611162521@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Oi5YPGhQk6VAzP+3MAkJgwAkSdqm99Deu2tnUMPtwCxUJ0
X-Copyright: (C) Copyright 2023 Stefan Ram. All rights reserved.
Distribution through any means other than regular usenet
channels is forbidden. It is forbidden to publish this
article in the Web, to change URIs of this article into links,
and to transfer the body without this notice, but quotations
of parts in other Usenet posts are allowed.
X-No-Archive: Yes
Archive: no
X-No-Archive-Readme: "X-No-Archive" is set, because this prevents some
services to mirror the article in the web. But the article may
be kept on a Usenet archive server with only NNTP access.
X-No-Html: yes
Content-Language: en-US
Accept-Language: de-DE-1901, en-US, it, fr-FR
 by: Stefan Ram - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 15:27 UTC

Paul Epstein <pepstein5@gmail.com> quoted:
>You could be packed up and ready.
>Knowing exactly where to go.
>How come you miss the connection?

The verb forms "could be" (as used in "could be packed up and
ready") and "miss" refer to the present time frame. However,
this usage should be considered within the framework of what
is known as the "extended present", whereby the state of lack of
readiness and the missing of the connection are not necessarily
simultaneous events, but rather occur within the same general
period or time frame, such as over the course of one day.

It is also conceivable that the narrative voice takes on a
participatory role alongside the protagonist as events unfold.
For example, at noon, the main character may have failed
to complete his preparations, with the narrative perspective
providing commentary on this state. At 1 p.m., however,
the main character misses "the connection" and once again the
narrative stance offers its observations on this event.

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<d25569c6-f84f-46a9-9892-6d4aed44a7e2n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181407&group=alt.usage.english#181407

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5c4e:0:b0:3f8:692d:5cc4 with SMTP id j14-20020ac85c4e000000b003f8692d5cc4mr2037335qtj.7.1686503279056;
Sun, 11 Jun 2023 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:f2c4:0:b0:399:e5c2:f7d3 with SMTP id
q187-20020acaf2c4000000b00399e5c2f7d3mr641558oih.7.1686503278762; Sun, 11 Jun
2023 10:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 10:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u64dr4$2mlnq$2@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=108.53.39.189; posting-account=tXYReAoAAABbl0njRzivyU02EBLaX9OF
NNTP-Posting-Host: 108.53.39.189
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com> <u64dr4$2mlnq$2@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <d25569c6-f84f-46a9-9892-6d4aed44a7e2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 17:07:59 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 1997
 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 17:07 UTC

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:14:33 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 11/06/23 21:57, Paul Epstein wrote:

> > A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:
> >
> > You could be packed up and ready.
> > Knowing exactly where to go.
> > How come you miss the connection?
> > No use in asking.
> > The answer is "Nobody knows".
> >
> > Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
> > Or is there a good reason for the present tense?
> > The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU
>
> The choice of tense looks OK to me. I believe it's technically called
> the present habitual tense.

It might also be a historical present -- employed for vividness.
Anyway, it's a song lyric, i.e. poetry (sort of).

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<u65drr$2qeef$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181433&group=alt.usage.english#181433

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: benli...@ihug.co.nz (Ross Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 09:20:53 +1200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <u65drr$2qeef$1@dont-email.me>
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:20:59 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="52a325f9bd05d3597f3dea999d90a98d";
logging-data="2963919"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+8w2KEOwr6AZ2aHnr/+0WoNs0Nwgm/VPw="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/52.9.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:PQHbQkgWlhddPMPlbgTCWr8X9pY=
In-Reply-To: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Ross Clark - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:20 UTC

On 11/06/2023 11:57 p.m., Paul Epstein wrote:
> A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:
>
> You could be packed up and ready.
> Knowing exactly where to go.
> How come you miss the connection?
> No use in asking.
> The answer is "Nobody knows".
>
> Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
> Or is there a good reason for the present tense?
>
> The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU
>
> Thank You,
>
> Paul Epstein
>

I'd say it's the "tenseless" present, as used in stage directions (He
opens the door) and plot summaries (Toto escapes and returns to
Dorothy). The "could" sets up an imagined scenario in which this tense
is appropriate. In fact, if you replaced "could be" with "are", I think
it could be understood in just the same way (though it would nobble the
metre).

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<7af0dde6-dc2c-4baf-9384-c9b0f2987a9en@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181439&group=alt.usage.english#181439

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5905:0:b0:3f0:abe7:24a7 with SMTP id 5-20020ac85905000000b003f0abe724a7mr2427684qty.6.1686520381724;
Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3090:b0:39a:a99a:218e with SMTP id
bl16-20020a056808309000b0039aa99a218emr1777925oib.5.1686520381386; Sun, 11
Jun 2023 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u65drr$2qeef$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com> <u65drr$2qeef$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7af0dde6-dc2c-4baf-9384-c9b0f2987a9en@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (Paul Epstein)
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:53:01 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2267
 by: Paul Epstein - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:53 UTC

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 10:21:04 PM UTC+1, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 11/06/2023 11:57 p.m., Paul Epstein wrote:
> > A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:
> >
> > You could be packed up and ready.
> > Knowing exactly where to go.
> > How come you miss the connection?
> > No use in asking.
> > The answer is "Nobody knows".
> >
> > Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
> > Or is there a good reason for the present tense?
> >
> > The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > Paul Epstein
> >
> I'd say it's the "tenseless" present, as used in stage directions (He
> opens the door) and plot summaries (Toto escapes and returns to
> Dorothy). The "could" sets up an imagined scenario in which this tense
> is appropriate. In fact, if you replaced "could be" with "are", I think
> it could be understood in just the same way (though it would nobble the
> metre).

Which "could"?

Paul Epstein

Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

<2c1bfdf6-43c5-4f48-87c7-bf6df78318f1n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=181440&group=alt.usage.english#181440

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
X-Received: by 2002:a37:850:0:b0:75b:2820:8baf with SMTP id 77-20020a370850000000b0075b28208bafmr1018030qki.10.1686520467503;
Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:db45:0:b0:39c:cd8e:998f with SMTP id
s66-20020acadb45000000b0039ccd8e998fmr639648oig.0.1686520467237; Sun, 11 Jun
2023 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <7af0dde6-dc2c-4baf-9384-c9b0f2987a9en@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <8f3e47c8-21a6-4be4-9c99-54d8af3a1914n@googlegroups.com>
<u65drr$2qeef$1@dont-email.me> <7af0dde6-dc2c-4baf-9384-c9b0f2987a9en@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <2c1bfdf6-43c5-4f48-87c7-bf6df78318f1n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (Paul Epstein)
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:54:27 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2545
 by: Paul Epstein - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 21:54 UTC

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 10:53:03 PM UTC+1, Paul Epstein wrote:
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 10:21:04 PM UTC+1, Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 11/06/2023 11:57 p.m., Paul Epstein wrote:
> > > A (somewhat) famous song by Paul Brady has the lyrics:
> > >
> > > You could be packed up and ready.
> > > Knowing exactly where to go.
> > > How come you miss the connection?
> > > No use in asking.
> > > The answer is "Nobody knows".
> > >
> > > Shouldn't "miss" be replaced by "missed" here?
> > > Or is there a good reason for the present tense?
> > >
> > > The complete song is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SslFtF8XZhU
> > >
> > > Thank You,
> > >
> > > Paul Epstein
> > >
> > I'd say it's the "tenseless" present, as used in stage directions (He
> > opens the door) and plot summaries (Toto escapes and returns to
> > Dorothy). The "could" sets up an imagined scenario in which this tense
> > is appropriate. In fact, if you replaced "could be" with "are", I think
> > it could be understood in just the same way (though it would nobble the
> > metre).
> Which "could"?
Sorry, I get it now.
"You are packed up and ready"

Paul Epstein


interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Shouldn't this be past tense?

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor