[schadenfreude] joy over harm or misfortune suffered by others

Schadenfreude is a combination of the German nouns Schaden, meaning
"damage" or "harm," and Freude, meaning "joy." So it makes sense that
schadenfreude means joy over some harm or misfortune suffered by another.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/10/putins-one-tank-military-parade-was-an-embarrassment-for-russia.html
"Ukraine's schadenfreude
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry's official Twitter account quipped that
"modern Russian military equipment can be found much more easily at
Ukrainian military trophies exhibitions than at the Victory Parade in
Moscow" while Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Goncharenko said on Twitter that the
whole of Ukraine was laughing at Russia's one tank."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
The first known use of schadenfreude was in 1868

On 11/05/23 10:36, Ken Blake #2 wrote:

> [schadenfreude] joy over harm or misfortune suffered by others
>
> Schadenfreude is a combination of the German nouns Schaden, meaning
> "damage" or "harm," and Freude, meaning "joy." So it makes sense that
> schadenfreude means joy over some harm or misfortune suffered by another.
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/10/putins-one-tank-military-parade-was-an-embarrassment-for-russia.html
>
> "Ukraine's schadenfreude
> The Ukrainian Defense Ministry's official Twitter account quipped that
> "modern Russian military equipment can be found much more easily at
> Ukrainian military trophies exhibitions than at the Victory Parade in
> Moscow" while Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Goncharenko said on Twitter that the
> whole of Ukraine was laughing at Russia's one tank."
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
> The first known use of schadenfreude was in 1868

I'm starting to think that your role in this group is to tell us things
we already know.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 8:38:31 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
> [schadenfreude] joy over harm or misfortune suffered by others
>
> Schadenfreude is a combination of the German nouns Schaden, meaning
> "damage" or "harm," and Freude, meaning "joy." So it makes sense that
> schadenfreude means joy over some harm or misfortune suffered by another.

Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it even mean to kill joy?

On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:

> Or does it mean guilty pleasure?
> or does it mean kill joy?
> or does it even mean to kill joy?

The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be "epicaricacy",
which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting pleasure from the
misfortune of others.

The [epicaricacy] etymology appears to be from the ancient Greek "epi"
(meaning upon) added to "kharis" (meaning joy) and "kakos" (meaning evil).

Oxford says "pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune."

A native Deutsch speaker may provide further clues as to the word usage.

On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:

> On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
>
>> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
>> even mean to kill joy?
>
> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
> pleasure from the
> misfortune of others.

I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
meaning is "glee".

Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank for
his victory parade.

>
> The [epicaricacy] etymology appears to be from the ancient Greek "epi"
> (meaning upon) added to "kharis" (meaning joy) and "kakos" (meaning evil).
>
> Oxford says "pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune."
>
> A native Deutsch speaker may provide further clues as to the word usage.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Le 12/05/2023 à 09:31, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>
>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>> pleasure from the
>> misfortune of others.
>
> I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
> meaning is "glee".
>
> Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank for
> his victory parade.

Well spotted. I prefer 'glee'.

On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 2:33:10 AM UTC-6, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>
> > On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
> >
> >> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
> >> even mean to kill joy?
> >
> > The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
> > "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
> > pleasure from the
> > misfortune of others.
> I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
> meaning is "glee".
>
> Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank for
> his victory parade.
....

Or someone gloated.

Etymonline thinks "glee" probably is and "gloat" definitely is from Germanic
words about glittering and shining, from PIE *ghel-, meaning gold, yellow,
green.

While we're on etymology, I had no idea "arsenic" was from the same root,
with a detour through Semitic and some folk etymology in Greek. Thus
"arsenic" and "chlorine" are etymologically related.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:31:53 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
> meaning is "glee".
>
> Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank for
> his victory parade.

Excellent observation. I heartily concur. I would prefer [glee] over
[schadenfreude] and/or [epicaricacy] because the latter is rarely used.

Perhaps at times (but by no means always) [gloating] over an inequity may
complement [glee] when aggression, rivalry or justice are to be conveyed.

On Fri, 12 May 2023 06:30:43 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman wrote:

> Or someone gloated.
>
> Etymonline thinks "glee" probably is and "gloat" definitely is from Germanic
> words about glittering and shining, from PIE *ghel-, meaning gold, yellow,
> green.

I hadn't seen your post when I had complemented [glee] with [gloat] so I
apologize for not having read your appropriate response prior to my
previous reply... as gloat seems to fit well when describing malicious
satisfaction and/or justified gratification.

There are perhaps flavors of rightious begrudgery such as the resentful
"Tall poppy syndrome" (aka cutting down the tall poppy) and in another
tack, cynicism in the grave term "Roman holiday" (apparently used when a
gladiator is butchered for the vicarious pleasures of the populace).

Perhaps even morose delectation, which, I'm told, is an inherent appeal of
sadism (and perhaps even the delectatio morosa associated with the church).

On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:31:53 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>
>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
>>
>>> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
>>> even mean to kill joy?
>>
>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>> pleasure from the
>> misfortune of others.
>
>I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>meaning is "glee".

But there's a catch to that.

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:
> Le 12/05/2023 à 09:31, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>>
>>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>>> pleasure from the
>>> misfortune of others.
>>
>> I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>> meaning is "glee".
>>
>> Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank
>> for his victory parade.
>
> Well spotted. I prefer 'glee'.

I disagree. I'm sure that some reported with glee that some group of
people playing dress-up and prancing around a stage had won the
Eurovision Song Contest, but not due to any misfortune. Glee to me
can be any expression of merriment or mirth, no ill-will is necessary.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

Le 12/05/2023 à 22:44, Phil Carmody a écrit :
> Hibou writes:
>> Le 12/05/2023 à 09:31, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>>>
>>> I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>>> meaning is "glee".
>>>
>>> Someone reported here with glee that Putin could only find one tank
>>> for his victory parade.
>>
>> Well spotted. I prefer 'glee'.
>
> I disagree. I'm sure that some reported with glee that some group of
> people playing dress-up and prancing around a stage had won the
> Eurovision Song Contest, but not due to any misfortune. Glee to me
> can be any expression of merriment or mirth, no ill-will is necessary.

Yes. The context must make it clear that the glee is at someone else's
expense.

On Fri, 12 May 2023 08:12:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:31:53 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
><athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
>>>> even mean to kill joy?
>>>
>>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>>> pleasure from the
>>> misfortune of others.
>>
>>I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>>meaning is "glee".
>
>But there's a catch to that.

Just curious--since there have been no replies to my post, I wonder
how many here got my reference.

On Sat, 13 May 2023, at 10:33:36, Ken Blake posted:
>On Fri, 12 May 2023 08:12:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:31:53 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>>>On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
>>>>> even mean to kill joy?
>>>>
>>>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>>>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>>>> pleasure from the
>>>> misfortune of others.
>>>
>>>I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>>>meaning is "glee".
>>
>>But there's a catch to that.
>
>Just curious--since there have been no replies to my post, I wonder
>how many here got my reference.

Many got it, I'm sure. We might even have caught it.

Wassail, revel, glee, carol and no doubt many more simple amusements of
those kinds slipped into the past long ago. Nothing's been the same
since they invented electricity.
--
Paul W

On Sat, 13 May 2023 19:44:45 +0100, Paul Wolff
<bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 May 2023, at 10:33:36, Ken Blake posted:
>>On Fri, 12 May 2023 08:12:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>>On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:31:53 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>>>>On 2023-05-12 02:43:58 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or does it mean guilty pleasure? or does it mean kill joy? or does it
>>>>>> even mean to kill joy?
>>>>>
>>>>> The closest English word to [schadenfreude] appears to be
>>>>> "epicaricacy", which means rejoicing at, taking fun in, or getting
>>>>> pleasure from the
>>>>> misfortune of others.
>>>>
>>>>I much more common word that often (but by no means always) has that
>>>>meaning is "glee".
>>>
>>>But there's a catch to that.
>>
>>Just curious--since there have been no replies to my post, I wonder
>>how many here got my reference.
>
>Many got it, I'm sure. We might even have caught it.

Thanks. Glad to hear it.

>Wassail, revel, glee, carol and no doubt many more simple amusements of
>those kinds slipped into the past long ago.

Yes, and that's why I thought it might have been missed

>Nothing's been the same
>since they invented electricity.

On Sat, 13 May 2023 09:00:59 +0100, Hibou wrote:

> The context must make it clear that the glee is at someone else's
> expense.

An example from today uses the word with 'enormous satisfaction', where the
glee is readily apparent in the storyline of this recent news article.

"While I am generally a peace-loving person, when terrible things,
including death, happen to stupid selfie-takers, it gives me an enormous
sense of satisfaction. Call it schadenfreude. In this case, while the
inspector survived, the phone didn't (serves him right), or maybe it did.
We shall soon find out."

https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/jokes-apart-a-food-inspector-a-reservoir-and-a-phone-how-to-find-a-needle-in-a-wet-haystack-12660052.html