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did to him

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Subject: did to him
From: arthurv...@gmail.com (arthurvv vart)
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by: arthurvv vart - Tue, 4 Apr 2023 21:45 UTC

1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.

Which is grammatical?
Which is idiomatic?

Gratefully,
Navi

Re: did to him

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From: vpaereru...@yahoo.com.invalid (Hibou)
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by: Hibou - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 07:23 UTC

Le 04/04/2023 à 22:45, arthurvv vart a écrit :
>
> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>
> Which is grammatical?
> Which is idiomatic?
>
> Gratefully,
> Navi

(1) is better because 'you' and 'him' are both in the accusative (are
direct objects).

We can perhaps do better:

They are going to fire you [in] the same way they fired him.

Re: did to him

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From: athel...@gmail.com (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 07:59 UTC

On 2023-04-05 07:23:10 +0000, Hibou said:

> Le 04/04/2023 à 22:45, arthurvv vart a écrit :
>>
>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>>
>> Which is grammatical?
>> Which is idiomatic?
>>
>> Gratefully,
>> Navi
>
> (1) is better because 'you' and 'him' are both in the accusative (are
> direct objects).
>
> We can perhaps do better:
>
> They are going to fire you [in] the same way they fired him.

Yes. Never be frightened to repeat a word (here "fired") when it makes
everything clearer and less clumsy.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 11:29 UTC

Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
<arthurvarr@gmail.com> scribeva:

>1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.

They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.

("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
not have a perfect equivalent.)

(My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 15:19 UTC

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:14 PM UTC-4, arthurvv vart wrote:

> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>
> Which is grammatical?
> Which is idiomatic?

Neither, neither.

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 15:21 UTC

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:29:20 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>
> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to

But you can't put "exactly" outside it.

> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>
> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)

Re: did to him

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 18:24 UTC

Wed, 5 Apr 2023 08:21:04 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:29:20?AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>
>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>
>But you can't put "exactly" outside it.

???

>> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>
>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Re: did to him

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: Snidely - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 19:44 UTC

Ruud Harmsen pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 08:21:04 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:29:20?AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>>>> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>>
>>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>>
>> But you can't put "exactly" outside it.
>
> ???

I think Peter is saying that

"in exactly the same way"
is ok, but
"exactly in the same way"
is not.

That would be an error on Navi's part. Sometimes a syllable makes a
difference.

/dps

>>> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>>> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>>
>>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: bil...@shaw.ca - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 21:40 UTC

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>
> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>
> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)

Supple not good enough for you?

bill

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: jerry.fr...@gmail.com (Jerry Friedman)
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by: Jerry Friedman - Wed, 5 Apr 2023 21:54 UTC

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-6, Snidely wrote:
> Ruud Harmsen pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
> > Wed, 5 Apr 2023 08:21:04 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:29:20?AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> >>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> >>>> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> >>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> >>>
> >>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> >>
> >> But you can't put "exactly" outside it.
> >
> > ???
> I think Peter is saying that
>
> "in exactly the same way"
> is ok, but
> "exactly in the same way"
> is not.
>
> That would be an error on Navi's part. Sometimes a syllable makes a
> difference.

AVE (American Vernacular English) "They're going to fire you the exact
same way they fired him."

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: did to him

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: did to him
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2023 06:46:26 +0200
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by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 6 Apr 2023 04:46 UTC

Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>
>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>
>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
>
>Supple not good enough for you?

Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
in Dutch is not.

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 6 Apr 2023 14:07 UTC

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC-4, Snidely wrote:
> Ruud Harmsen pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
> > Wed, 5 Apr 2023 08:21:04 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 7:29:20?AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> >>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:

His examples at least used to be variants on something he actually found
somewhere, so maybe that's the case here; but I thought he stopped doing that.
> /dps

Snidely gets me!

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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by: bil...@shaw.ca - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 06:03 UTC

On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32 PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> >> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> >> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him..
> >> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> >>
> >> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> >> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> >> not have a perfect equivalent.)
> >>
> >> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
> >
> >Supple not good enough for you?

> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
> in Dutch is not.

Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.

I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
local playground

One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
have access to.

I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
in English.

bill

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 14:35 UTC

On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:03:36 AM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32 PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
> > <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
> > >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > >> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> > >> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:

> > >> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> > >> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> > >> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> > >> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> > >> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> > >> not have a perfect equivalent.)
> > >> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
> > >Supple not good enough for you?
> > Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
> > in Dutch is not.
>
> Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.
>
> I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
> all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
> local playground
>
> One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
> fluent, for an 11-year-old.

Perfectly normal. See "critical age."

> It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
> to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
> other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
> of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
> have access to.

I don't think "supple" has the meaning that Ruud offers for 'soepel." It means
'gracefully flexible' and the like, said of fabrics, bodies, etc. It's cognate but not
equivalent. "Elegant" gets you closer but seems to be more restricted.

> I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
> in English.

Re: did to him

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by: Ken Blake - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 15:36 UTC

On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:

For me, it's neither rare nor common. It's somewhere in-between.
>
>I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
>all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
>local playground
>
>One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
>fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
>to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
>other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
>of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
>have access to.
>
>I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
>in English.
>
>bill
>

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: did to him
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2023 20:20:33 +0200
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by: Ruud Harmsen - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 18:20 UTC

Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32?PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
>> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
>> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>> >> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>> >> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>> >> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>> >>
>> >> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>> >> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>> >> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>> >>
>> >> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
>> >
>> >Supple not good enough for you?
>
>> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
>> in Dutch is not.
>
>Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.
>
>I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
>all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
>local playground
>
>One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
>fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
>to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
>other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
>of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
>have access to.
>
>I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
>in English.

It doesn't seem to have the figurative meaning it can certainly have
in Dutch.

Example:
We moeten daar soepel mee omgaan.
We should handly the matter supply.
Possible?
We should have a flexible approach where this point is concerned.
Better?

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 12:30:00 -0600
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by: lar3ryca - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 18:30 UTC

On 2023-04-07 09:36, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
> <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32?PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
>>> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
>>>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>>>>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>>>>>> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>>>>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>>>>
>>>>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>>>>> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>>>>> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>>>>
>>>>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
>>>>
>>>> Supple not good enough for you?
>>
>>> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
>>> in Dutch is not.
>>
>> Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.
>
>
> For me, it's neither rare nor common. It's somewhere in-between.

AOL.
The strangest use of the word I have heard was in an ad for a water
softener using some sort of magnetic principle. It was said to produce
"soft, supple water".

>> I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
>> all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
>> local playground
>>
>> One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
>> fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
>> to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
>> other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
>> of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
>> have access to.
>>
>> I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
>> in English.
>>
>> bill
>>

--
Chris: Hey can I borrow a ten?
Kristen: Sure.
Christen: Thank you.
Kris: You're welcome.

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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by: bil...@shaw.ca - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 20:07 UTC

On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 11:20:42 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32?PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
> >> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
> >> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> >> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> >> >> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >> >> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him..
> >> >> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> >> >> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> >> >>
> >> >> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> >> >> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> >> >> not have a perfect equivalent.)
> >> >>
> >> >> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
> >> >
> >> >Supple not good enough for you?
> >
> >> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
> >> in Dutch is not.
> >
> >Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.
> >
> >I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
> >all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
> >local playground
> >
> >One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
> >fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
> >to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
> >other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
> >of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
> >have access to.
> >
> >I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
> >in English.
> It doesn't seem to have the figurative meaning it can certainly have
> in Dutch.
>
> Example:
> We moeten daar soepel mee omgaan.
> We should handly the matter supply.
> Possible?

Yes, possible. But the word is spelled subtly, with the "b" usually silent.

> We should have a flexible approach where this point is concerned.
> Better?

Yes, better. "Tactful" is another good option, with a slightly different shade of meaning.

bill

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 20:17 UTC

On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 2:20:42 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:

[supple]
> It doesn't seem to have the figurative meaning it can certainly have
> in Dutch.
>
> Example:
> We moeten daar soepel mee omgaan.
> We should handly the matter supply.
> Possible?

> We should have a flexible approach where this point is concerned.
> Better?

yes

We should handle the matter flexibly, if you like manner adverbs.

Re: did to him

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by: Sam Plusnet - Fri, 7 Apr 2023 20:47 UTC

On 07-Apr-23 19:30, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-04-07 09:36, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
>> <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32?PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
>>>> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>>>>>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>>>>>>> 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to
>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>>>>>> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Supple not good enough for you?
>>>
>>>> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
>>>> in Dutch is not.
>>>
>>> Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a
>>> rare word for me.
>>
>>
>> For me, it's neither rare nor common. It's somewhere in-between.
>
> AOL.
> The strangest use of the word I have heard was in an ad for a water
> softener using some sort of magnetic principle. It was said to produce
> "soft, supple water".
>

Surely, "Supple" is the activity carried out by a supplicant.

Or has that meaning been supplanted?

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: Ruud Harmsen - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 04:50 UTC

Fri, 7 Apr 2023 13:07:34 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> scribeva:

>On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 11:20:42?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
>> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
>> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 9:46:32?PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:40:51 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
>> >> <bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:
>> >> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20?AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> >> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>> >> >> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >> >> >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
>> >> >> >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
>> >> >> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
>> >> >> leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
>> >> >> not have a perfect equivalent.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
>> >> >
>> >> >Supple not good enough for you?
>> >
>> >> Doesn't have the same currency, it's a rather rare word, and 'soepel'
>> >> in Dutch is not.
>> >
>> >Interesting. "Supple" is part of my everyday English. It's not a rare word for me.
>> >
>> >I probably don't fit the usual models in that regard. I learned the basics of English
>> >all at once, when I was 11 years old and mostly in the summer holidays, in the
>> >local playground
>> >
>> >One month I knew no English at all, and three months later I was more or less
>> >fluent, for an 11-year-old. It might be that when I encountered "supple", I attributed
>> >to it what I had already learned of the Dutch "soepel". It might be that there are
>> >other words in Canadian English that I have a slightly different understanding
>> >of than other Canadians do, because it is coloured by the Dutch context I
>> >have access to.
>> >
>> >I'm not complaining. I ended up making a reasonable living, writing and editing
>> >in English.
>> It doesn't seem to have the figurative meaning it can certainly have
>> in Dutch.
>>
>> Example:
>> We moeten daar soepel mee omgaan.
>> We should handly the matter supply.
>> Possible?
>
>Yes, possible. But the word is spelled subtly, with the "b" usually silent.

Ah, a subtle difference. But in Dutch that is subtiel, which is not
quite the same as soepel.

>> We should have a flexible approach where this point is concerned.
>> Better?
>
>Yes, better. "Tactful" is another good option, with a slightly different shade of meaning.
>
>bill

Re: did to him

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by: Jitze - Sun, 9 Apr 2023 09:27 UTC

Re: did to him

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From: jerry.fr...@gmail.com (Jerry Friedman)
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by: Jerry Friedman - Sun, 9 Apr 2023 14:07 UTC

On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 3:27:58 AM UTC-6, Jitze wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> > <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did him.
> > >2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did to him.
> > They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> >
> > ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel' to
> > leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which English does
> > not have a perfect equivalent.)
> >
> > (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
....

> soepel (Dutch) has the same root as supple (English) but more usually translates better into English as flexible (een soepele regeling = a flexible arrangement)

Hi, Jitze!

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: did to him

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: did to him
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by: Peter Moylan - Sun, 9 Apr 2023 15:00 UTC

On 10/04/23 00:07, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 3:27:58 AM UTC-6, Jitze wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen
>> wrote:
>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
>>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did
>>>> him. 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they
>>>> did to him.
>>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
>>>
>>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel'
>>> to leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which
>>> English does not have a perfect equivalent.)
>>>
>>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
> ...
>
>> soepel (Dutch) has the same root as supple (English) but more
>> usually translates better into English as flexible (een soepele
>> regeling = a flexible arrangement)
>
> Hi, Jitze!

and, as often happens, Jitze has come up with a sensible translation.

It was obvious. up until now, that Dutch soepel was not precisely
equivalent to English supple, and the comment by Ruud made that obvious.
But Jitze's comment cleared it up better than anyone else did.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: did to him

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Subject: Re: did to him
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 9 Apr 2023 15:47 UTC

On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 11:00:28 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 10/04/23 00:07, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 3:27:58 AM UTC-6, Jitze wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 4:29:20 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen
> >> wrote:
> >>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023 14:45:11 -0700 (PDT): arthurvv vart
> >>> <arthu...@gmail.com> scribeva:

> >>>> 1) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they did
> >>>> him. 2) They are going to fire you exactly in the same way they
> >>>> did to him.
> >>> They are going to fire you exactly the same way they fired him.
> >>> ("In the same way" isn't wrong, but here I find it more 'soepel'
> >>> to leave it out. Dutch soepel, from French souple, for which
> >>> English does not have a perfect equivalent.)
> >>> (My opinion as a non-native speaker.)
> >> soepel (Dutch) has the same root as supple (English) but more
> >> usually translates better into English as flexible (een soepele
> >> regeling = a flexible arrangement)
> > Hi, Jitze!

From more than 10 years ago?

> and, as often happens, Jitze has come up with a sensible translation.
>
> It was obvious. up until now, that Dutch soepel was not precisely
> equivalent to English supple, and the comment by Ruud made that obvious.
> But Jitze's comment cleared it up better than anyone else did.

Excuse me?

See my message of "Apr 7, 2023, 10:35:35 AM (2 days ago),"
Ruud's message a while after that, and my reply confirming
Ruud's understanding.

Factorials were someone's attempt to make math LOOK exciting.

interests / alt.usage.english / did to him

interests / alt.usage.english / did to him

Subject	Author
did to him	arthurvv vart
Re: did to him	Hibou
Re: did to him	Athel Cornish-Bowden
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	Snidely
Re: did to him	Jerry Friedman
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels
Re: did to him	bil...@shaw.ca
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	bil...@shaw.ca
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels
Re: did to him	Ken Blake
Re: did to him	lar3ryca
Re: did to him	Sam Plusnet
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	bil...@shaw.ca
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels
Re: did to him	Jitze
Re: did to him	Jerry Friedman
Re: did to him	Peter Moylan
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels
Re: did to him	Ruud Harmsen
Re: did to him	Snidely
Re: did to him	J. J. Lodder
Re: did to him	Peter T. Daniels