Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
is that?

« Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage commercial le
week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les appels doivent
obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou bien entre 14h* et 20h » -
my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
<https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-5, Hibou wrote:

> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> is that?

That's very nice, but how will they enforce it? Over Here, such calls
seem mostly to come from India.

> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage commercial le
> week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les appels doivent
> obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou bien entre 14h* et 20h » -
> my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>

Le 01/03/2023 à 15:03, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-5, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
>> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
>> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
>> is that?
>
> That's very nice, but how will they enforce it? Over Here, such calls
> seem mostly to come from India.

It would appear that it is no longer legal for junk callers from outside
France to present French landline or non-geographic numbers (01..05 and
09), and it's up to the telecoms companies to enforce this. They are
also required to block callers presenting mobile numbers (06 and 07) if
their organisation makes many more calls than it receives:

'Fini le démarchage téléphonique depuis l'étranger avec un numéro
français' -
<https://www.capital.fr/economie-politique/fini-le-demarchage-telephonique-depuis-letranger-avec-un-numero-francais-1346468>

That would seem to leave calls from abroad with foreign numbers. These
are presumably easier for subscribers to ignore or block themselves.

That's all I know - but if you're curious, GETA - Google est ton ami -
Google is your friend (not really, of course; Google is not really
anyone's friend).

Den 01.03.2023 kl. 15.50 skrev Hibou:

> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> is that?

Not a lot. The ban should have been more comprehensive.

I have had appended a note to my official registration which means that
it is illegal to contact me in any way with a commercial purpose -
unless it is a follow-up to a purchase I have made. Very few use this
option.

Even without registration the legal options are very restricted.

--
Bertel, Denmark

"Hibou":
> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> is that?

Discrimination against people with unusual sleeping hours, that's
what it is.

:-)
--
Mark Brader "Oh, I'm a programmer and I'm O.K....
Toronto I work all night and I sleep all day"
msb@vex.net -- Trygve Lode (after Monty Python)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-5, Hibou wrote:
> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> is that?
>
> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage commercial le
> week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les appels doivent
> obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou bien entre 14h* et 20h » -
> my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>

Wow. It looks like the big corporations have run around, again. Pleurage. [On dirait que les grandes entreprises ont couru partout, encore une fois].

On 02/03/23 01:50, Hibou wrote:
> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in
> the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How
> civilised is that?
>
> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage commercial
> le week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les appels doivent
> obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou bien entre 14h* et
> 20h » - my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>
>
I didn't see anything about time zones in that article. May we presume
that the law specifies those time relative to the recipient's clock, not
to the caller's? There's usually a big difference.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Le 02/03/2023 à 04:12, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 02/03/23 01:50, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
>> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in
>> the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How
>> civilised is that?
>>
>> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage commercial
>> le week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les appels doivent
>> obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou bien entre 14h* et
>> 20h » - my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
>> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>
>
> I didn't see anything about time zones in that article. May we presume
> that the law specifies those time relative to the recipient's clock, not
> to the caller's? There's usually a big difference.

Yes, we may:

« ... et d'autre part seulement de 10 heures à 13 heures et de 14 heures
à 20 heures, ces heures correspondant à celles du fuseau horaire du
consommateur » -

'Décret n° 2022-1313 du 13 octobre 2022 relatif à l'encadrement des
jours, horaires et fréquence des appels ...' -
<https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000046421823>

On France Info, they were saying that the law in Germany prohibits junk
calls unless one opts in - which is even more civilised.

On 01/03/2023 15:50, Hibou wrote:
> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> is that?

Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.

Den 02.03.2023 kl. 09.02 skrev occam:

> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
> France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
> meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
> allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
> accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.

*That* is civilized. In Denmark parking companies are unreliable and
extremely pedantic.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Le 02/03/2023 à 08:02, occam a écrit :
> On 01/03/2023 15:50, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
>> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
>> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
>> is that?
>
> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
> France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
> meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
> allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
> accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.

Yes, they have the right idea. Lunch is one of my favourite meals of the
day (one of three), and eating should be an unrushed pleasure.

Many years ago, we sometimes ate in French eateries whose clientele was
mainly workmen or students. The food was simple but good - and, by and
large, the French weren't fat.

Things have changed. In a recent discussion programme on ARTE, they were
saying that 47% of French people are now either fat (BMI >25) or obese
(BMI >30), which they ascribed to « la malbouffe » (junk food) and the
Americanisation of French eating habits.

Not all change is progress, say I (as an occasional refrain).

On 2023-03-02 08:19:46 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:

> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 09.02 skrev occam:
>
>> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
>> France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
>> meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
>> allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
>> accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.
>
> *That* is civilized. In Denmark parking companies are unreliable and
> extremely pedantic.

When we were in Denver a few years ago my daughter took us to Boulder
for a few hours. We got back to her car less than a minute after the
parking had expired. She had to pay a $110 fine, if I remember rightly.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 02/03/23 17:17, Hibou wrote:
> Le 02/03/2023 à 04:12, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>> On 02/03/23 01:50, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As
>>> from today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays,
>>> early in the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch
>>> hour*. How civilised is that?
>>>
>>> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage
>>> commercial le week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les
>>> appels doivent obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou
>>> bien entre 14h* et 20h » - my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
>>>
>>> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I didn't see anything about time zones in that article. May we
>> presume that the law specifies those time relative to the
>> recipient's clock, not to the caller's? There's usually a big
>> difference.
>
> Yes, we may:
>
> « ... et d'autre part seulement de 10 heures à 13 heures et de 14
> heures à 20 heures, ces heures correspondant à celles du fuseau
> horaire du consommateur » -
>
> 'Décret n° 2022-1313 du 13 octobre 2022 relatif à l'encadrement des
> jours, horaires et fréquence des appels ...' -
> <https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000046421823>

OK, they thought of that catch; but I suppose it was obvious.

> On France Info, they were saying that the law in Germany prohibits
> junk calls unless one opts in - which is even more civilised.

In Australia, there's some sort of requirement for there to be an
existing relationship between caller and callee. The catch is that
"existing relationship" is interpreted too broadly. For example, if
you've ever contacted a company to ask them not to call you, that
establishes a relationship.

The really big hole in the law, though, is that calls from outside the
country are exempt from the law. I guess that's because some powerful
companies employ foreign call centres.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 02/03/23 19:02, occam wrote:
> On 01/03/2023 15:50, Hibou wrote:

>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
>> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in
>> the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How
>> civilised is that?
>
> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town
> (East France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime.
> Parking meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I
> presume was to allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the
> manner they were accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.

When I worked for a short time in France I was delighted to discover the
(apparently widespread) custom where employee lunches are subsidised by
the employer. At the organisation's cafeteria I could have a main
course, a dessert, and a half-bottle of wine for just a handful of
francs. I took to making that my main meal of the day. On my way home at
the end of the day I picked up a ficelle and some ham and cheese, and
that made an adequate evening meal.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 2023-03-02 10:21:48 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 02/03/23 19:02, occam wrote:
>> On 01/03/2023 15:50, Hibou wrote:
>
>>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
>>> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in
>>> the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How
>>> civilised is that?
>>
>> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town
>> (East France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime.
>> Parking meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I
>> presume was to allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the
>> manner they were accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.
>
> When I worked for a short time in France I was delighted to discover the
> (apparently widespread) custom where employee lunches are subsidised by
> the employer. At the organisation's cafeteria I could have a main
> course, a dessert, and a half-bottle of wine for just a handful of
> francs. I took to making that my main meal of the day. On my way home at
> the end of the day I picked up a ficelle and some ham and cheese, and
> that made an adequate evening meal.

We still have that system, but no one has wine any more. 35 years about
40% of people did, but the proportion steadily declined after about
1995. I don't know why.
The price varies with your status: although my salary today is zero I
pay at the rate that applies to the rank I had when I retired. I think
it's about 6.42€ (about 40 francs) for a starter, a main course, cheese
and dessert. (I never have all that). For a student it's a lot less.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 10:02:20 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-02 08:19:46 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>
>> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 09.02 skrev occam:
>>
>>> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
>>> France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
>>> meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
>>> allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
>>> accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.
>>
>> *That* is civilized. In Denmark parking companies are unreliable and
>> extremely pedantic.
>
>When we were in Denver a few years ago my daughter took us to Boulder
>for a few hours. We got back to her car less than a minute after the
>parking had expired. She had to pay a $110 fine, if I remember rightly.

Either your memory is wrong or your daughter broke some other law.

The fine for an expired meter violation in Denver was raised from
$25.00 to $35.00 in 2022.

https://www.denvergov.org/files/assets/public/doti/documents/programsservices/park-smart-denver/2022-parking-citation-fine-schedule.pdf

The only reason that I looked this up is that $110 overtime parking
fine would be unbelievably excessive in any US city. Even in
Manhattan (NYC), the fine for your daughter's offense is $65.00.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

Den 02.03.2023 kl. 11.13 skrev Peter Moylan:

> The really big hole in the law, though, is that calls from outside the
> country are exempt from the law. I guess that's because some powerful
> companies employ foreign call centres.

The Danish law on marketing applies for foreign companies if they
'target' Danes. It typically kicks in if they have a website with Danish
text.

But it doesn't really matter. We do not have the ressources to pursue
such 'crimes'.

I do not get calls from outside Denmark (or inside) except for some
Indi-Paki-people speaking English. They offer to help me remove virus
code and re-establish my system after an attack.

I lie to them as long as I can persuade myself to do so (I don'tlike it)
and pretend that I open the page they want me to where I can install
TeamViewer and give them full control. When I don't want to continue
lying, I put down the phone and listen to their in-vain remarks. They
then hang up and call again, and I go "Oh, I think we were interrupted",
and then we start all over. The last guy called ten times before giving up.

Maybe they have registered my number. It's been a while without that
sort of thing.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Den 02.03.2023 kl. 15.16 skrev TonyCooper:

> The only reason that I looked this up is that $110 overtime parking
> fine would be unbelievably excessive in any US city. Even in
> Manhattan (NYC), the fine for your daughter's offense is $65.00.

In Denmark the fine is 875 kr. = $125. Just having your wheels an ich
past the white line is enough. Recently even (ordinary!) cars who were a
bit too long for the square, were fined, but that has been retracted.

Parking squares are generally too small, both length- and widthwise.

PS. Is this way of writing know in English? It is in Danish and German.

both length- and widthwise

where the hyphen connects the word with the common ending.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 15.16 skrev TonyCooper:
>
> > The only reason that I looked this up is that $110 overtime parking
> > fine would be unbelievably excessive in any US city. Even in
> > Manhattan (NYC), the fine for your daughter's offense is $65.00.

> In Denmark the fine is 875 kr. = $125. Just having your wheels an ich
> past the white line is enough. Recently even (ordinary!) cars who were a
> bit too long for the square, were fined, but that has been retracted.
>
> Parking squares are generally too small, both length- and widthwise.

I'd say "parking spaces".

> PS. Is this way of writing know in English? It is in Danish and German.

I can't figure out what "know" should have been. "Now"?

> both length- and widthwise
>
> where the hyphen connects the word with the common ending.

Yes, though a fair number of people don't know that.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 2023-03-02 14:16:09 +0000, TonyCooper said:

> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 10:02:20 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-02 08:19:46 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>>
>>> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 09.02 skrev occam:
>>>
>>>> Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
>>>> France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
>>>> meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
>>>> allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
>>>> accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.
>>>
>>> *That* is civilized. In Denmark parking companies are unreliable and
>>> extremely pedantic.
>>
>> When we were in Denver a few years ago my daughter took us to Boulder
>> for a few hours. We got back to her car less than a minute after the
>> parking had expired. She had to pay a $110 fine, if I remember rightly.
>
>
> Either your memory is wrong or your daughter broke some other law.
>
> The fine for an expired meter violation in Denver was raised from
> $25.00 to $35.00 in 2022.

Maybe, but this wasn't in Denver. As I said, it was in Boulder. But
it's certainly possible that my memory is at fault.
>
> https://www.denvergov.org/files/assets/public/doti/documents/programsservices/park-smart-denver/2022-parking-citation-fine-schedule.pdf
>
>
> The only reason that I looked this up is that $110 overtime parking
> fine would be unbelievably excessive in any US city. Even in
> Manhattan (NYC), the fine for your daughter's offense is $65.00.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 2023-03-02 16:36:07 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:

> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 11.13 skrev Peter Moylan:
>
>> The really big hole in the law, though, is that calls from outside the
>> country are exempt from the law. I guess that's because some powerful
>> companies employ foreign call centres.
>
> The Danish law on marketing applies for foreign companies if they
> 'target' Danes. It typically kicks in if they have a website with
> Danish text.
>
> But it doesn't really matter. We do not have the ressources to pursue
> such 'crimes'.
>
> I do not get calls from outside Denmark (or inside) except for some
> Indi-Paki-people speaking English. They offer to help me remove virus
> code and re-establish my system after an attack.
>
> I lie to them as long as I can persuade myself to do so (I don'tlike
> it) and pretend that I open the page they want me to where I can
> install TeamViewer and give them full control. When I don't want to
> continue lying, I put down the phone and listen to their in-vain
> remarks. They then hang up and call again, and I go "Oh, I think we
> were interrupted", and then we start all over. The last guy called ten
> times before giving up.
>
> Maybe they have registered my number. It's been a while without that
> sort of thing.

It's also been a while for us, but it used to be frequent. Always with
an Indian accent. What I've tried to do, but I get too bored to
continue after about five minutes, is to keep them talking for half an
hour, asking them lots of questions, and eventually saying that I
haven't got a computer that runs Windows.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 17:36:07 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Den 02.03.2023 kl. 11.13 skrev Peter Moylan:
>
>> The really big hole in the law, though, is that calls from outside the
>> country are exempt from the law. I guess that's because some powerful
>> companies employ foreign call centres.
>
>The Danish law on marketing applies for foreign companies if they
>'target' Danes. It typically kicks in if they have a website with Danish
>text.
>
>But it doesn't really matter. We do not have the ressources to pursue
>such 'crimes'.
>
>I do not get calls from outside Denmark (or inside) except for some
>Indi-Paki-people speaking English. They offer to help me remove virus
>code and re-establish my system after an attack.
>
>I lie to them as long as I can persuade myself to do so (I don'tlike it)
>and pretend that I open the page they want me to where I can install
>TeamViewer and give them full control. When I don't want to continue
>lying, I put down the phone and listen to their in-vain remarks. They
>then hang up and call again, and I go "Oh, I think we were interrupted",
>and then we start all over. The last guy called ten times before giving up.
>
>Maybe they have registered my number. It's been a while without that
>sort of thing.

When I get those calls from someone who has noticed that there's
something wrong with my computer and wants me to give him access to my
computer so he can fix it, I often toy with them pretending to follow
the instructions. Eventually, he twigs to the fact that he's being
pranked.

It turns out that there are a number of obscene words that can be
clearly uttered in English no matter how much of an accent the caller
has in his initial pitch.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 08:47:58 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 9:42:01?AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 02.03.2023 kl. 15.16 skrev TonyCooper:
>>
>> > The only reason that I looked this up is that $110 overtime parking
>> > fine would be unbelievably excessive in any US city. Even in
>> > Manhattan (NYC), the fine for your daughter's offense is $65.00.
>
>> In Denmark the fine is 875 kr. = $125. Just having your wheels an ich
>> past the white line is enough. Recently even (ordinary!) cars who were a
>> bit too long for the square, were fined, but that has been retracted.
>>
>> Parking squares are generally too small, both length- and widthwise.
>
>I'd say "parking spaces".
>
>> PS. Is this way of writing know in English? It is in Danish and German.
>
>I can't figure out what "know" should have been. "Now"?

known...is this way of writing known in English?

known = recognized = used

>
>> both length- and widthwise
>>
>> where the hyphen connects the word with the common ending.
>
>Yes, though a fair number of people don't know that.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 5:13:36 AM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 02/03/23 17:17, Hibou wrote:
> > Le 02/03/2023 à 04:12, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> >> On 02/03/23 01:50, Hibou wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As
> >>> from today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays,
> >>> early in the morning and late at night - and *during the lunch
> >>> hour*. How civilised is that?
> >>>
> >>> « Il est désormais interdit d'appeler pour du démarchage
> >>> commercial le week-end et les jours fériés. En semaine, les
> >>> appels doivent obligatoirement avoir lieu entre 10h et *13h, ou
> >>> bien entre 14h* et 20h » - my emphasis, c'est moi qui souligne -
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/demarchage-telephonique-ce-qu-il-faut-savoir-des-nouvelles-regles-a-partir-du-1er-mars-2023_5686181.html>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> I didn't see anything about time zones in that article. May we
> >> presume that the law specifies those time relative to the
> >> recipient's clock, not to the caller's? There's usually a big
> >> difference.
> >
> > Yes, we may:
> >
> > « ... et d'autre part seulement de 10 heures à 13 heures et de 14
> > heures à 20 heures, ces heures correspondant à celles du fuseau
> > horaire du consommateur » -
> >
> > 'Décret n° 2022-1313 du 13 octobre 2022 relatif à l'encadrement des
> > jours, horaires et fréquence des appels ...' -
> > <https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000046421823>
> OK, they thought of that catch; but I suppose it was obvious.
> > On France Info, they were saying that the law in Germany prohibits
> > junk calls unless one opts in - which is even more civilised.
> In Australia, there's some sort of requirement for there to be an
> existing relationship between caller and callee. The catch is that
> "existing relationship" is interpreted too broadly. For example, if
> you've ever contacted a company to ask them not to call you, that
> establishes a relationship.
>
> The really big hole in the law, though, is that calls from outside the
> country are exempt from the law. I guess that's because some powerful
> companies employ foreign call centres.

Powerful? Don't companies need to become oil-friendly, multi-national corporations to become powerful?

On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 3:54:24 AM UTC-5, Hibou wrote:
> Le 02/03/2023 à 08:02, occam a écrit :
> > On 01/03/2023 15:50, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, on the freedom to make junk calls in France, anyway. As from
> >> today, such calls are illegal at weekends and on holidays, early in the
> >> morning and late at night - and *during the lunch hour*. How civilised
> >> is that?
> >
> > Very. I was pleasantly surprised during a drive to a nearby town (East
> > France) to see that there was a parking amnesty at lunchtime. Parking
> > meters were charge-free between 12:00 & 14:00. This I presume was to
> > allow Frenchmen to have an undisturbed lunch in the manner they were
> > accustomed to. 'How civilized' was my reaction.
> Yes, they have the right idea. Lunch is one of my favourite meals of the
> day (one of three), and eating should be an unrushed pleasure.
>
> Many years ago, we sometimes ate in French eateries whose clientele was
> mainly workmen or students. The food was simple but good - and, by and
> large, the French weren't fat.
>
> Things have changed. In a recent discussion programme on ARTE, they were
> saying that 47% of French people are now either fat (BMI >25) or obese
> (BMI >30), which they ascribed to « la malbouffe » (junk food) and the
> Americanisation of French eating habits.

Yes, of course. instead of Canadianization or Britishization of eating habits? [Oui ... au lieu d'une canadianisation ou d'une britannisation des habitudes alimentaires ?