On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>
>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>
>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>
>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>
>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>> absurd.
>>
>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>> current use?
>
> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
> cutting meat?

More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
commonly used: cleavage.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cleave
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 20:05:48 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>
>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>> absurd.
>>>
>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>> current use?
>>
>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>> cutting meat?
>
> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort

Everyone's heard of a meat cleaver, also used for murder. But not many folk are familiar with rock splitting.

> but it can
> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
> commonly used: cleavage.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cleave

Ah! I'd never thought of cleave and cleavage as being related. Cleavage is very common on a hot day.

Mind you it took me 35 years to realise windscreen was to do with screening wind.

On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>
>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>> absurd.
>>>
>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>> current use?
>>
>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>> cutting meat?
>
>More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>commonly used: cleavage.

I thought only women had cleavage.

On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 23:11:20 -0000, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>>> absurd.
>>>>
>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>>> current use?
>>>
>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>>> cutting meat?
>>
>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>> commonly used: cleavage.
>
> I thought only women had cleavage.

Women are common.

What's the gap between the buttocks? Or is that a cleft?

On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>>> absurd.
>>>>
>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>>> current use?
>>>
>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>>> cutting meat?
>>
>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>> commonly used: cleavage.
>
>
> I thought only women had cleavage.

Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/builder%27s_cleavage

--
Sam Plusnet

On Fri, 06 Jan 2023 01:26:45 -0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>>>> absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>>>> current use?
>>>>
>>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>>>> cutting meat?
>>>
>>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>>> commonly used: cleavage.
>>
>>
>> I thought only women had cleavage.
>
> Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/builder%27s_cleavage

Never heard that as cleavage. Builder's bum. And why can't they afford belts?

On 06/01/23 10:11, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD
>>> <g.davie@btinternet.com> wrote:

>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both
>>>> in current use?
>>>
>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do
>>> with cutting meat?
>>
>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it
>> can also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun
>> form is most commonly used: cleavage.
>
> I thought only women had cleavage.

That sort of (visible) cleavage usually requires wearing the sort of
clothing that pushes the breasts together. It therefore has both
meanings: a split, and a pushing together.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:26:50 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
> > On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
> > wrote:

[cleave]
> >> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
> >> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
> >> commonly used: cleavage.
> >
> >
> > I thought only women had cleavage.

> Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/builder%27s_cleavage

More commonly "plumber's crack", though there are variations.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 2023-01-05 22:45, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:26:50 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>
> [cleave]
>
>>>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>>>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>>>> commonly used: cleavage.
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought only women had cleavage.
>
>> Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?
>>
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/builder%27s_cleavage
>
> More commonly "plumber's crack", though there are variations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yICoZNmTCo

--
I have a boomerang that won't come back. I call it my stick.

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 01:26:45 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>>>> absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>>>> current use?
>>>>
>>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>>>> cutting meat?
>>>
>>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>>> commonly used: cleavage.
>>
>>
>> I thought only women had cleavage.
>
>Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?

I can't speak for everyone in the US, but it wasn't known to me until
I just looked it up.

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 14:51:50 +1100, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/01/23 10:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD
>>>> <g.davie@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both
>>>>> in current use?
>>>>
>>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do
>>>> with cutting meat?
>>>
>>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it
>>> can also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun
>>> form is most commonly used: cleavage.
>>
>> I thought only women had cleavage.
>
>That sort of (visible) cleavage usually requires wearing the sort of
>clothing that pushes the breasts together.

Usually, yes. True of most women, but I don't think it's true of all.

> It therefore has both
>meanings: a split, and a pushing together.

I've occasionally seen a web page with a picture of a woman wearing a
low-cut top, but without her breasts touching each other, and with
text that talked about her visible cleavage. I wouldn't call that
"cleavage," but apparently some people do.

On Fri, 06 Jan 2023 09:31:54 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 01:26:45 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>>On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.davie@btinternet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
>>>>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
>>>>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
>>>>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
>>>>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
>>>>>>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
>>>>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
>>>>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
>>>>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
>>>>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
>>>>>>>>> meanings:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
>>>>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
>>>>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
>>>>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
>>>>>>> absurd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
>>>>>> current use?
>>>>>
>>>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
>>>>> cutting meat?
>>>>
>>>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
>>>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
>>>> commonly used: cleavage.
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought only women had cleavage.
>>
>>Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?
>
>
>I can't speak for everyone in the US, but it wasn't known to me until
>I just looked it up.

The term wouldn't be known in the US because we don't generally use
"builders" to describe the individual people who work at building
things. When applied, it's applied the entire group.

The plumber is an individual who is often in a position where
"plumber's butt" is exposed.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 8:32:01 AM UTC-8, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 01:26:45 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >On 05-Jan-23 23:11, Ken Blake wrote:
> >> On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 20:05:48 +0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
> >>>>>> <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
> >>>>>>>> <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
> >>>>>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
> >>>>>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
> >>>>>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
> >>>>>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
> >>>>>>>>>> conditions.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
> >>>>>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
> >>>>>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
> >>>>>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
> >>>>>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
> >>>>>>>> meanings:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
> >>>>>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
> >>>>>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
> >>>>>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
> >>>>>> absurd.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
> >>>>> current use?
> >>>>
> >>>> I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
> >>>> cutting meat?
> >>>
> >>> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
> >>> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
> >>> commonly used: cleavage.
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought only women had cleavage.
> >
> >Is the term "builder's cleavage" not known in the US?
> I can't speak for everyone in the US, but it wasn't known to me until
> I just looked it up.

In Canada, it's known as plumber's crack.

bill

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 12:05:53 PM UTC-8, GordonD wrote:
> On 05/01/2023 18:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> > On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:53:27 -0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 02/01/2023 19:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 14:21:53 -0000, Colin Bignell
> >>> <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 02/01/2023 12:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:48:24 -0000, Colin Bignell
> >>>>> <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 02/01/2023 09:36, Jeff wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 01/01/2023 12:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 31/12/2022 23:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:32:05 -0000, rbowman
> >>>>>>>>> <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 15:00:05 +0000, Colin Bignell
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have a set of winter tyres on wheels in the
> >>>>>>>>>>> garage, for when I made trips to Germany. My
> >>>>>>>>>>> local tyre centre will change them for a fairly
> >>>>>>>>>>> modest fee.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> My studs are mounted on their own wheels.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What are studs?..
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Illegal in the UK.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not illegal in as much as there is no law or regulation
> >>>>>>> banning them, but unless the road conditions are suitable
> >>>>>>> for their use they could be considered as damaging the
> >>>>>>> road surface and possibly be illegal on wet surfaces, as
> >>>>>>> they provide less grip than a 'normal' tyre in those
> >>>>>>> conditions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think it was illegal under
> >>>>>> an EU Regulation that banned them unless individual member
> >>>>>> states specifically allowed them in their national
> >>>>>> legislation. I don't know whether that regulation is among
> >>>>>> those that have been repealed since we left the EU.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does repealed mean? I found this, with two opposite
> >>>>> meanings:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "transitive verb To revoke or rescind, especially by the
> >>>>> action of a legislature. transitive verb Obsolete To summon
> >>>>> back or recall, especially from exile."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So does it mean get rid of the law, or bring it back?
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps you should look up the meaning of obsolete as well.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't notice the word. So much clutter on webpages nowadays
> >>> my subconscious filters out stuff it thinks is adverts.
> >>>
> >>> So the word over time changed to mean the complete opposite? How
> >>> absurd.
> >>
> >> How about 'cleave', which can mean two opposite things, both in
> >> current use?
> >
> > I never use it, and only hear it occasionally, something to do with
> > cutting meat?
> More commonly to split a rock or a crystal of some sort - but it can
> also mean to cling or stick to something. Probably the noun form is most
> commonly used: cleavage.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cleave
> --
Rock of ages, cleft for me
https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/1058
Was Jesus cleaved in any Gospel narrative?
If not, what does cleft mean?

* Dingbat <0d9e520b-02ba-4456-b253-bb6ce178a656n @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Fri, 10 Feb 2023 07:47:23 -0800 (PST):
> Rock of ages, cleft for me
> https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/1058
> Was Jesus cleaved in any Gospel narrative?
> If not, what does cleft mean?

I don't know about hymns but this seems to be the usual meaning of
"cleft", ("clift") in the rock where you ensconce yourself, like Moses
was directed to do in the memorable Exodus passage:

33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by,
that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee
with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand,
and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

The Rock of Ages I was familiar with was a tune by Def Leppard. Oh wait.

"According to the liner notes of the compilation release Rock of
Ages: The Definitive Collection, the band was at a recording
studio when lead vocalist Joe Elliott stumbled upon a hymn book
left by a member of a children's choir that had just used the
studio. In the book, he saw the words "Rock of Ages", which
prompted him to write the lyrics of the song."

which leads to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(Christian_hymn)
but no clues on cleft

On 12/02/2023 5:31 a.m., Madhu wrote:
>
> * Dingbat <0d9e520b-02ba-4456-b253-bb6ce178a656n @googlegroups.com> :
> Wrote on Fri, 10 Feb 2023 07:47:23 -0800 (PST):
>> Rock of ages, cleft for me
>> https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/1058
>> Was Jesus cleaved in any Gospel narrative?
>> If not, what does cleft mean?

It means 'split' (past participle of "cleave"). Splitting the rock makes
a "cleft" ('split') in which you can be hidden -- either to keep you
from seeing God's face (as below) or to be safe from...whatever.

>
> I don't know about hymns but this seems to be the usual meaning of
> "cleft", ("clift") in the rock where you ensconce yourself, like Moses
> was directed to do in the memorable Exodus passage:
>
> 33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by,
> that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee
> with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand,
> and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Don't remember this particular bit from Sunday School, but I'm sure it's
dealt with here:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/563773/god-an-anatomy-by-francesca-stavrakopoulou/

> The Rock of Ages I was familiar with was a tune by Def Leppard. Oh wait.
>
> "According to the liner notes of the compilation release Rock of
> Ages: The Definitive Collection, the band was at a recording
> studio when lead vocalist Joe Elliott stumbled upon a hymn book
> left by a member of a children's choir that had just used the
> studio. In the book, he saw the words "Rock of Ages", which
> prompted him to write the lyrics of the song."
>
> which leads to
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(Christian_hymn)
> but no clues on cleft
>
>
>
>
>