On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 11:30:34 PM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 24/01/23 15:03, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 5:09:40 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > [Exclusive Brethren]
> >> Wandering through Wikipedia lead me to the fact that Aleister
> >> Crowley was born into an Exclusive Brethren family, but seems to
> >> have fallen by the wayside at some point.
> >> "Crowley's father was particularly devout, spending his time as a
> >> travelling preacher for the sect and reading a chapter from the
> >> Bible to his wife and son after breakfast every day." This seems to
> >> have been less than effective.
> >
> > Well, it may have had some kind of effect.
>
> I can say the same about my early teaching by nuns. The principal
> product of the Catholic convent schools, I have observed, is a very
> large number of ex-Catholics.

You have a lot more Bible-knowledge than the typical American. It's
unlikely, though, that your Catholic education had anything to do
with it. (Especially pre-Vatican II.)

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2023-01-21, TonyCooper wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:48:11 +0000, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:
> >
> >>Le 19/01/2023 à 14:37, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >>>
> >>> Happened recently. I saw the girl in a news conference last night;
> >>> she was crying her eyes out. She is 17 years old.
> >>>
> >>> Santee is in San Diego County, maybe considered a suburb. While the
> >>> county has gone Democrat since 2008, Santee leans towards the right.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenage-girl-cries-naked-biological-male-ymca-locker-room
> >>>
> >>> She is 17 years old. Why can't people mind their own business and get
> >>> on with life? Shocked? As a former naturist, I am almost speechless.
> >>> Has she lived in a cave all her life?
> >>
> >>YMCA? Not YWCA?
> >
> > There are several YMCAs in this area, but no YWCAs. I don't think
> > people consider what the initials stand for anymore, and they often
> > just refer to "the Y".
> >
> > The "C" is for Christian, but there's nothing in evidence in their
> > facilities that indicates a preference for any religion.
>
> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.

The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the 92nd-Street
Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building is newer and smaller.
The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the athletic facilities it must
contain are well concealed from the main entrance lobby, which is also
the lobby for the large concert-and-lecture hall.

The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 10:28:50 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2023-01-21, TonyCooper wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:48:11 +0000, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:
>>
>>>Le 19/01/2023 à 14:37, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Happened recently. I saw the girl in a news conference last night;
>>>> she was crying her eyes out. She is 17 years old.
>>>>
>>>> Santee is in San Diego County, maybe considered a suburb. While the
>>>> county has gone Democrat since 2008, Santee leans towards the right.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenage-girl-cries-naked-biological-male-ymca-locker-room
>>>>
>>>> She is 17 years old. Why can't people mind their own business and get
>>>> on with life? Shocked? As a former naturist, I am almost speechless.
>>>> Has she lived in a cave all her life?
>>>
>>>YMCA? Not YWCA?
>>
>> There are several YMCAs in this area, but no YWCAs. I don't think
>> people consider what the initials stand for anymore, and they often
>> just refer to "the Y".
>>
>> The "C" is for Christian, but there's nothing in evidence in their
>> facilities that indicates a preference for any religion.
>
>There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
>have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Community_Center#History>

There's a sprawling Jewish Community Center in this area named Shalom
Orlando. They have fitness facilities and programs like the Ys, a
swimming pool and swimming lessons, and several tennis courts.

The complex also contains a school and a Holocaust museum. The school
has several sports fields.

Our medical insurance program included some "chair yoga" classes at
the JCC, and my wife signed up for them. They required joining the
JCC (a free membership) and my wife pointed out that she was Catholic
when she registered, but was informed that there was no requirement to
be Jewish to join.

The free membership was for those using the facility as part of the
insurance program. I don't know, but I'm sure regular members do pay
dues.

If our mail delivery person notices who we get mail from, that person
will consider us a very mixed family. We get the monthly bulletin
from the JCC, the monthly Catholic newspaper, mailings from
Democratics running for office (my wife is a registered Democrat) and
mailings from Republicans running for office (I'm a registered
Republican, but vote Democratic).

>> During one of the hurricanes we were without electricity for over a
>> week. While we were not members of the YMCA, they allowed us to use
>> their facilities until power was restored. That's where we showered.
>>
I don't know if the JCC would have allowed us to use their facilities
at the time. That was before my wife joined. That we could use the Y
was in the newspaper.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

In article <18017b7b-84e4-45b8-b2c6-
d8269e0c526bn@googlegroups.com>, grammatim@verizon.net
says...
>
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:01:22 PM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 24/01/23 08:07, charles wrote:
>
> > > there's a YMCA in London just off Tottemham Court Road. I spent a
> > > week there, in 1962, booked in by my employer.
> >
> > This has prompted me to look up the YMCA in Newcastle. It exists,
> > although I've never had much awareness of it. Its main job seems to be
> > counselling young people in various ways. The physical exercise facility
> > seems to consist of UTube videos. They don't seem to offer accommodation.
> >
> > The low profile might be because of the falling interest in religion in
> > this country.
>
> You seem to be overly interested in the "Christian" in the name. If it's
> anything like the ubiquitous US YMCAs, that's nothing but a historical
> reminiscence of the English origins,
>
> If you go to the Salvation Army for a meal and a cot, you have to go
> to a revival-meeting.

I have done that, and can assure you there was
absolutely no mention of god, prayers, religion or any
revival meeting.

Janet.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, at 15:10:32, Janet posted:
>In article <X1o+KQ1Q4wzjFAee@wolff.co.uk>,
>bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk says...
>> I can't answer for the Tottenham Court Road YMCA, which I remember from
>> the seventies without having stayed there, or for Charles, but I can
>> say, hand on heart, that I stayed solo in a Youth Hostel this last
>> summer, on the South Downs Way in Sussex, and I'm a greybearded
>> grandfather. Only to be honest, I was clean-shaven on that occasion (for
>> a nearby croquet tournament).
>>
>
> First and last time I stayed in a Youth Hostel (c. 1962)
>the bunkrooms were strictly segregated to prevent
>fornication.
>
Still in 2022.
--
Paul W

Janet <nobody@home.com> writes:
> grammatim@verizon.net says...
>> If you go to the Salvation Army for a meal and a cot, you have to go
>> to a revival-meeting.
>
> I have done that, and can assure you there was
> absolutely no mention of god, prayers, religion or any
> revival meeting.

It depends on the country. In the US, the SA can be pretty hardcore.
European versions are much more charitable.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

* Peter Moylan <tqnmt3$69u$1 @dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 24 Jan 2023 15:30:25 +1100:

> I can say the same about my early teaching by nuns. The principal
> product of the Catholic convent schools, I have observed, is a very
> large number of ex-Catholics.

I've come to belive this is intentional. The "pass-outs" are
effectively weaponised and let loose on society, in a devious fulfilment
of the devil's plan.

On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2023-01-21, TonyCooper wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:48:11 +0000, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Le 19/01/2023 à 14:37, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>> Happened recently. I saw the girl in a news conference last night;
>> >>> she was crying her eyes out. She is 17 years old.
>> >>>
>> >>> Santee is in San Diego County, maybe considered a suburb. While the
>> >>> county has gone Democrat since 2008, Santee leans towards the right.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenage-girl-cries-naked-biological-male-ymca-locker-room
>> >>>
>> >>> She is 17 years old. Why can't people mind their own business and get
>> >>> on with life? Shocked? As a former naturist, I am almost speechless.
>> >>> Has she lived in a cave all her life?
>> >>
>> >>YMCA? Not YWCA?
>> >
>> > There are several YMCAs in this area, but no YWCAs. I don't think
>> > people consider what the initials stand for anymore, and they often
>> > just refer to "the Y".
>> >
>> > The "C" is for Christian, but there's nothing in evidence in their
>> > facilities that indicates a preference for any religion.
>>
>> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
>> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
>
> The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the 92nd-Street
> Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building is newer and smaller.
> The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the athletic facilities it must
> contain are well concealed from the main entrance lobby, which is also
> the lobby for the large concert-and-lecture hall.
>
> The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
> its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
> chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.

I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".

I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural
& leak-handling) reasons.

--
It is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by
first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste
of the nation. ---David Sarnoff, CEO of RCA, 1939; in Stoll 1995

In article <3u0dajx588.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
<a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2023-01-21, TonyCooper wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:48:11 +0000, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Le 19/01/2023 à 14:37, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Happened recently. I saw the girl in a news conference last night;
> >> >>> she was crying her eyes out. She is 17 years old.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Santee is in San Diego County, maybe considered a suburb. While
> >> >>> the county has gone Democrat since 2008, Santee leans towards the
> >> >>> right.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenage-girl-cries-naked-biological-male-ymca-locker-room
> >> >>>
> >> >>> She is 17 years old. Why can't people mind their own business and
> >> >>> get on with life? Shocked? As a former naturist, I am almost
> >> >>> speechless. Has she lived in a cave all her life?
> >> >>
> >> >>YMCA? Not YWCA?
> >> >
> >> > There are several YMCAs in this area, but no YWCAs. I don't think
> >> > people consider what the initials stand for anymore, and they often
> >> > just refer to "the Y".
> >> >
> >> > The "C" is for Christian, but there's nothing in evidence in their
> >> > facilities that indicates a preference for any religion.
> >>
> >> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
> >> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
> >
> > The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the
> > 92nd-Street Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building
> > is newer and smaller. The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the
> > athletic facilities it must contain are well concealed from the main
> > entrance lobby, which is also the lobby for the large
> > concert-and-lecture hall.
> >
> > The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
> > its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
> > chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.

> I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".

> I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural &
> leak-handling) reasons.

Back in the 1990s I used an indoor pool on the fifth floor in Ealing,
London. Design the building properly and there isn't a problem.

> --

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:45:09 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:

> >> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
> >> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
> > The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the 92nd-Street
> > Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building is newer and smaller.
> > The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the athletic facilities it must
> > contain are well concealed from the main entrance lobby, which is also
> > the lobby for the large concert-and-lecture hall.
> > The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
> > its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
> > chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.
>
> I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".
>
> I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural
> & leak-handling) reasons.

Rooftop swimming pools are surprisingly common on luxury high-rises.

An early(?) one is seen in *Sex and the City*.

On 2023-01-27, charles wrote:

> In article <3u0dajx588.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
><a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>> >> On 2023-01-21, TonyCooper wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:48:11 +0000, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>Le 19/01/2023 à 14:37, Mack A. Damia a écrit :
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Happened recently. I saw the girl in a news conference last night;
>> >> >>> she was crying her eyes out. She is 17 years old.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Santee is in San Diego County, maybe considered a suburb. While
>> >> >>> the county has gone Democrat since 2008, Santee leans towards the
>> >> >>> right.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenage-girl-cries-naked-biological-male-ymca-locker-room
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> She is 17 years old. Why can't people mind their own business and
>> >> >>> get on with life? Shocked? As a former naturist, I am almost
>> >> >>> speechless. Has she lived in a cave all her life?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>YMCA? Not YWCA?
>> >> >
>> >> > There are several YMCAs in this area, but no YWCAs. I don't think
>> >> > people consider what the initials stand for anymore, and they often
>> >> > just refer to "the Y".
>> >> >
>> >> > The "C" is for Christian, but there's nothing in evidence in their
>> >> > facilities that indicates a preference for any religion.
>> >>
>> >> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
>> >> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
>> >
>> > The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the
>> > 92nd-Street Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building
>> > is newer and smaller. The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the
>> > athletic facilities it must contain are well concealed from the main
>> > entrance lobby, which is also the lobby for the large
>> > concert-and-lecture hall.
>> >
>> > The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
>> > its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
>> > chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.
>
>> I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".
>
>> I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural &
>> leak-handling) reasons.
>
> Back in the 1990s I used an indoor pool on the fifth floor in Ealing,
> London. Design the building properly and there isn't a problem.

I know it can be done, but it must be a lot more expensive to build
(well).

--
Master Foo once said to a visiting programmer: "There is more
Unix-nature in one line of shell script than there is in ten
thousand lines of C." ---Eric Raymond

On 25/01/23 22:23, Phil Carmody wrote:
> Janet <nobody@home.com> writes:
>> grammatim@verizon.net says...

>>> If you go to the Salvation Army for a meal and a cot, you have to
>>> go to a revival-meeting.
>>
>> I have done that, and can assure you there was absolutely no
>> mention of god, prayers, religion or any revival meeting.
>
> It depends on the country. In the US, the SA can be pretty hardcore.
> European versions are much more charitable.

There was a time when I greatly admired the work that the Salvation Army
did with the poor and disadvantaged. I briefly considered becoming a
volunteer with them after I retired from full-time work.

Then I discovered That I couldn't work with them unless I accepted their
religion. It started to look as if the charitable work was just a
recruitment strategy.

That was in Australia. It might be different in different countries.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 2023-01-27, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:45:09 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> >> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
>> >> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
>> > The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the 92nd-Street
>> > Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building is newer and smaller.
>> > The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the athletic facilities it must
>> > contain are well concealed from the main entrance lobby, which is also
>> > the lobby for the large concert-and-lecture hall.
>> > The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
>> > its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
>> > chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.
>>
>> I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".
>>
>> I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural
>> & leak-handling) reasons.
>
> Rooftop swimming pools are surprisingly common on luxury high-rises.
>
> An early(?) one is seen in *Sex and the City*.

I know they exist! (I have used one in a hotel in Korea.) I'm just
pointing out that they are more difficult & expensive to build than
in-ground ones.

--
I'm after rebellion: I'll settle for lies.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:30:09 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2023-01-27, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:45:09 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2023-01-24, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:30:07 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:

> >> >> There are YMHA & YWHA (H for "Hebrew") sites too, but most of them
> >> >> have been renamed Jewish Community Centers.
> >> > The J is in the Upper West Side across Central Park from the 92nd-Street
> >> > Y (I don't know whether it started as a Y). Its building is newer and smaller.
> >> > The East Side one looks like a hotel, and the athletic facilities it must
> >> > contain are well concealed from the main entrance lobby, which is also
> >> > the lobby for the large concert-and-lecture hall.
> >> > The J, however (I've been to a couple of lectures there) bizarrely has
> >> > its swimming pool on an upper floor (the 4th or 5th or so), and the
> >> > chlorinated air suffuses the class and lecture rooms above it.
> >> I like the way it's called "the J" like "the Y".
> >> I assume upper-floor swimming pools are rare for technical (structural
> >> & leak-handling) reasons.
> > Rooftop swimming pools are surprisingly common on luxury high-rises.
> > An early(?) one is seen in *Sex and the City*.
>
> I know they exist! (I have used one in a hotel in Korea.) I'm just
> pointing out that they are more difficult & expensive to build than
> in-ground ones.

Not in this subthread, you aren't!

Your sentence beginning "I assume" _entails_ the truth of the assumption
("upper-floor swimming pools are rare"). You could have indicated doubt
as to their existence if you'd said "could be rare," but that would be
unGricean, because you know that they both exist and are rare.

On 31-Jan-23 5:42, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/01/23 22:23, Phil Carmody wrote:
>> Janet <nobody@home.com> writes:
>>> grammatim@verizon.net says...
>
>>>> If you go to the Salvation Army for a meal and a cot, you have to
>>>> go to a revival-meeting.
>>>
>>> I have done that, and can assure you there was absolutely no
>>> mention of god, prayers, religion or any revival meeting.
>>
>> It depends on the country. In the US, the SA can be pretty hardcore.
>> European versions are much more charitable.
>
> There was a time when I greatly admired the work that the Salvation Army
> did with the poor and disadvantaged. I briefly considered becoming a
> volunteer with them after I retired from full-time work.
>
> Then I discovered That I couldn't work with them unless I accepted their
> religion. It started to look as if the charitable work was just a
> recruitment strategy.
>
> That was in Australia. It might be different in different countries.

Both my parents were (loosely speaking) agnostic, but had a great
respect for the Salvation Army's work during WWII. I have heard similar
things from others.
They were very quick to identify a need, and would arrive and start
working long before other 'agencies' could do so.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 31-Jan-23 5:42, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 25/01/23 22:23, Phil Carmody wrote:
> >> Janet <nob...@home.com> writes:
> >>> gram...@verizon.net says...

> >>>> If you go to the Salvation Army for a meal and a cot, you have to
> >>>> go to a revival-meeting.
> >>> I have done that, and can assure you there was absolutely no
> >>> mention of god, prayers, religion or any revival meeting.
> >> It depends on the country. In the US, the SA can be pretty hardcore.
> >> European versions are much more charitable.
> > There was a time when I greatly admired the work that the Salvation Army
> > did with the poor and disadvantaged. I briefly considered becoming a
> > volunteer with them after I retired from full-time work.
> > Then I discovered That I couldn't work with them unless I accepted their
> > religion. It started to look as if the charitable work was just a
> > recruitment strategy.
> > That was in Australia. It might be different in different countries.
>
> Both my parents were (loosely speaking) agnostic, but had a great
> respect for the Salvation Army's work during WWII. I have heard similar
> things from others.
> They were very quick to identify a need, and would arrive and start
> working long before other 'agencies' could do so.

These days, Over Here, that's the niche filled by the Red Cross.