I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
doesn't work (in my opinion).
About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this terrible
lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
song was made.
Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8

Thank You,

Paul Epstein

Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> doesn't work (in my opinion).
> About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> can be described as "practising politics"

Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?

> and I doubt that this terrible
> lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> song was made.

No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
interpretation.

> Here's a link:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>
> Thank You,
>
> Paul Epstein

My condolences.

/dps

--
We’ve learned way more than we wanted to know about the early history
of American professional basketball, like that you could have once
watched a game between teams named the Indianapolis Kautskys and the
Akron Firestone Non-Skids. -- fivethirtyeight.com

Paul Epstein <pepstein5@gmail.com> writes:
>About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>no way the waitress is "practising politics".

In a similar way, it irks me that Limp Bizkit inserted

Discover L I M P say it

in "Behind Blue Eyes". It sounds like an ad with
no connection to the rest of the lyrics.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > can be described as "practising politics"
> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
> > and I doubt that this terrible
> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> > song was made.
> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
> interpretation.
> > Here's a link:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > Paul Epstein
> My condolences.

Please explain the "My condolences." line!
You don't know anything about me.
The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
and certainly needs to be explained.
Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.

I would like to ask others about my complaint.
How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?

Paul Epstein

Paul Epstein <pepstein5@gmail.com> writes:
>I would like to ask others about my complaint.
>How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?

|Condolences (from Latin con (with) + dolore (sorrow)) are an
|expression of sympathy to someone who is experiencing pain
|arising from death, deep mental anguish, or misfortune.

So, you have this "deep mental anguish" about that line in the
pop song, and he is expressing his sympathy. Could also be
a bit ironic since our anguish about lines in pop songs
usually does not run that deep.

On 21/12/2022 11:58 am, Paul Epstein wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
>>> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
>>> intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
>>> doesn't work (in my opinion).
>>> About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>>> no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
>>> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>>> can be described as "practising politics"
>> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
>>> and I doubt that this terrible
>>> lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
>>> song was made.
>> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
>> interpretation.
>>> Here's a link:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Paul Epstein
>> My condolences.
>
> Please explain the "My condolences." line!
> You don't know anything about me.
> The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
> and certainly needs to be explained.
> Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
>
> I would like to ask others about my complaint.

A little heavy?

> How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?

It could just be a badly-conceived joke (not that I see anything
funny about it, but de gustibus etc). Sometimes one's jokes seem
hilarious right up until one clicks 'Send'.

A few decades before 'Send' buttons came to be, I once scribbled
something supposedly witty (it was harmless enough, but utterly
asinine) on a classroom notice, a scribble I was already
regretting even before the form master noticed it and launched
his investigation. I made the only smart move left to me by
confessing, but my graffiti now seemed not funny but simply stupid.

People just click 'Send' too soon sometimes.

On the other hand, I don't suppose it was for nothing that I
killfiled the guy. So maybe you're right.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
<pepstein5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
>> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
>> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
>> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
>> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
>> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>> > can be described as "practising politics"
>> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
>> > and I doubt that this terrible
>> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
>> > song was made.
>> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
>> interpretation.
>> > Here's a link:
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>> >
>> > Thank You,
>> >
>> > Paul Epstein
>> My condolences.
>
>Please explain the "My condolences." line!
>You don't know anything about me.
>The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
>and certainly needs to be explained.
>Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
>
>I would like to ask others about my complaint.
>How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
>
>Paul Epstein

A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
family member or close friend.

However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> >> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> >> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> >> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
> >> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> >> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> >> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> >> > can be described as "practising politics"
> >> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
> >> > and I doubt that this terrible
> >> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> >> > song was made.
> >> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
> >> interpretation.
> >> > Here's a link:
> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> >> >
> >> > Thank You,
> >> >
> >> > Paul Epstein
> >> My condolences.
> >
> >Please explain the "My condolences." line!
> >You don't know anything about me.
> >The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
> >and certainly needs to be explained.
> >Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
> >
> >I would like to ask others about my complaint.
> >How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
> >
> >Paul Epstein
> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
> family member or close friend.
>
> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.

Thanks a lot, Tony.

I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
"My condolences to you for being the way you are".

I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
is correct.
But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies "being distressed",
and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome" before posting.

Paul Epstein

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:01:15 PM UTC, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 21/12/2022 11:58 am, Paul Epstein wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> >>> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> >>> intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> >>> doesn't work (in my opinion).
> >>> About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> >>> no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> >>> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> >>> can be described as "practising politics"
> >> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
> >>> and I doubt that this terrible
> >>> lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> >>> song was made.
> >> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
> >> interpretation.
> >>> Here's a link:
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> >>>
> >>> Thank You,
> >>>
> >>> Paul Epstein
> >> My condolences.
> >
> > Please explain the "My condolences." line!
> > You don't know anything about me.
> > The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
> > and certainly needs to be explained.
> > Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
> >
> > I would like to ask others about my complaint.
> A little heavy?
> > How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
> It could just be a badly-conceived joke (not that I see anything
> funny about it, but de gustibus etc). Sometimes one's jokes seem
> hilarious right up until one clicks 'Send'.
>
> A few decades before 'Send' buttons came to be, I once scribbled
> something supposedly witty (it was harmless enough, but utterly
> asinine) on a classroom notice, a scribble I was already
> regretting even before the form master noticed it and launched
> his investigation. I made the only smart move left to me by
> confessing, but my graffiti now seemed not funny but simply stupid.
>
> People just click 'Send' too soon sometimes.
>
> On the other hand, I don't suppose it was for nothing that I
> killfiled the guy. So maybe you're right.

Thanks a lot, Richard!
I agree with your post absolutely 100%.
As I said in my reply to Tony, I (wrongly) assumed
Snidely's meaning was "My condolences to you for being the way you are".

However, I wasn't completely sure, which is why I (rightly) asked for more
reader feedback.

Paul Epstein

Paul Epstein <pepstein5@gmail.com> writes:
>I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
>"My condolences to you for being the way you are".
>I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
>is correct.

Only the speaker can know what he meant. But some scholars
believe that understanding is not a process of reconstructing
the state of mind of the author, but one of articulating
what is expressed in his work.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 05:57:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
<pepstein5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
>> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
>> >> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
>> >> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
>> >> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
>> >> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>> >> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
>> >> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>> >> > can be described as "practising politics"
>> >> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
>> >> > and I doubt that this terrible
>> >> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
>> >> > song was made.
>> >> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
>> >> interpretation.
>> >> > Here's a link:
>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>> >> >
>> >> > Thank You,
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul Epstein
>> >> My condolences.
>> >
>> >Please explain the "My condolences." line!
>> >You don't know anything about me.
>> >The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
>> >and certainly needs to be explained.
>> >Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
>> >
>> >I would like to ask others about my complaint.
>> >How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
>> >
>> >Paul Epstein
>> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
>> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
>> family member or close friend.
>>
>> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
>> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
>> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
>> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
>> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.
>
>Thanks a lot, Tony.
>
>I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
>"My condolences to you for being the way you are".
>
>I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
>is correct.
>But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies "being distressed",
>and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome" before posting.
>
>Paul Epstein

Well, see, that's the problem with using words. We don't know, when
we use them, how they will be taken.

Take "irksome". It can mean "bothersome". Something that bothers you
can distress you. There's no point where "irksome" indicates where
being bothered becomes being distressed.

If I make the statement: "I find it irksome that John doesn't reply
to my emails" how do you know my level of reaction? Am I mildly
bothered by this, or am I constantly annoyed by this? If I'm mildly
bothered I'm not distressed, but if I'm constantly annoyed by this it
does distress me.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:14:51 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 05:57:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
> >> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> >> >> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> >> >> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> >> >> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
> >> >> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> >> >> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> >> >> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> >> >> > can be described as "practising politics"
> >> >> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
> >> >> > and I doubt that this terrible
> >> >> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> >> >> > song was made.
> >> >> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
> >> >> interpretation.
> >> >> > Here's a link:
> >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thank You,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Paul Epstein
> >> >> My condolences.
> >> >
> >> >Please explain the "My condolences." line!
> >> >You don't know anything about me.
> >> >The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
> >> >and certainly needs to be explained.
> >> >Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
> >> >
> >> >I would like to ask others about my complaint.
> >> >How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
> >> >
> >> >Paul Epstein
> >> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
> >> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
> >> family member or close friend.
> >>
> >> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
> >> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
> >> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
> >> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
> >> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.
> >
> >Thanks a lot, Tony.
> >
> >I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
> >"My condolences to you for being the way you are".
> >
> >I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
> >is correct.
> >But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies "being distressed",
> >and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome" before posting.
> >
> >Paul Epstein
> Well, see, that's the problem with using words. We don't know, when
> we use them, how they will be taken.
>
> Take "irksome". It can mean "bothersome". Something that bothers you
> can distress you. There's no point where "irksome" indicates where
> being bothered becomes being distressed.
>
> If I make the statement: "I find it irksome that John doesn't reply
> to my emails" how do you know my level of reaction? Am I mildly
> bothered by this, or am I constantly annoyed by this? If I'm mildly
> bothered I'm not distressed, but if I'm constantly annoyed by this it
> does distress me.
> --

Agreed, and even if everyone realised that by "irksome", I only meant
"mildly irritated", your point still makes perfect sense. Snidely might then
(legitimately) hold the opinion that, for me to care about the issue at all,
is an overreaction, and he is entitled to satirise this.
The problem was that (as above) I totally misunderstood the "condolences"
reference. If I hit on your (almost certainly correct) interpretation, I would not
have minded at all.

Paul Epstein

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:29:29 PM UTC, Paul Epstein wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:14:51 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 05:57:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
> > <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
> > >> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> >> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
> > >> >> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
> > >> >> > intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
> > >> >> > doesn't work (in my opinion).
> > >> >> > About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
> > >> >> > no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > >> >> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > >> >> > can be described as "practising politics"
> > >> >> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
> > >> >> > and I doubt that this terrible
> > >> >> > lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
> > >> >> > song was made.
> > >> >> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
> > >> >> interpretation.
> > >> >> > Here's a link:
> > >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Thank You,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Paul Epstein
> > >> >> My condolences.
> > >> >
> > >> >Please explain the "My condolences." line!
> > >> >You don't know anything about me.
> > >> >The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
> > >> >and certainly needs to be explained.
> > >> >Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
> > >> >
> > >> >I would like to ask others about my complaint.
> > >> >How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
> > >> >
> > >> >Paul Epstein
> > >> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
> > >> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
> > >> family member or close friend.
> > >>
> > >> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
> > >> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
> > >> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
> > >> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
> > >> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.
> > >
> > >Thanks a lot, Tony.
> > >
> > >I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
> > >"My condolences to you for being the way you are".
> > >
> > >I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
> > >is correct.
> > >But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies "being distressed",
> > >and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome" before posting.
> > >
> > >Paul Epstein
> > Well, see, that's the problem with using words. We don't know, when
> > we use them, how they will be taken.
> >
> > Take "irksome". It can mean "bothersome". Something that bothers you
> > can distress you. There's no point where "irksome" indicates where
> > being bothered becomes being distressed.
> >
> > If I make the statement: "I find it irksome that John doesn't reply
> > to my emails" how do you know my level of reaction? Am I mildly
> > bothered by this, or am I constantly annoyed by this? If I'm mildly
> > bothered I'm not distressed, but if I'm constantly annoyed by this it
> > does distress me.
> > --
> Agreed, and even if everyone realised that by "irksome", I only meant
> "mildly irritated", your point still makes perfect sense. Snidely might then
> (legitimately) hold the opinion that, for me to care about the issue at all,
> is an overreaction, and he is entitled to satirise this.
> The problem was that (as above) I totally misunderstood the "condolences"
> reference. If I hit on your (almost certainly correct) interpretation, I would not
> have minded at all.
>
> Paul Epstein

Just realised that the "he" isn't really justified -- "Snidely" isn't exactly a masculine
name. Probabilistically, I would think that from the picture we get from Snidely's postings, Snidely is more likely
to be male than not male, but I was wrong to assume this.
Usually I avoid masculine pronouns when I don't know, but I slipped up here.

Paul Epstein

On 21/12/2022 2:33 pm, Paul Epstein wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:29:29 PM UTC, Paul Epstein wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:14:51 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 05:57:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
>>> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
>>>>> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
>>>>>>>> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
>>>>>>>> intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
>>>>>>>> doesn't work (in my opinion).
>>>>>>>> About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>>>>>>>> no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
>>>>>>>> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>>>>>>>> can be described as "practising politics"
>>>>>>> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
>>>>>>>> and I doubt that this terrible
>>>>>>>> lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
>>>>>>>> song was made.
>>>>>>> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
>>>>>>> interpretation.
>>>>>>>> Here's a link:
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank You,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul Epstein
>>>>>>> My condolences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please explain the "My condolences." line!
>>>>>> You don't know anything about me.
>>>>>> The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
>>>>>> and certainly needs to be explained.
>>>>>> Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into your reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask others about my complaint.
>>>>>> How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Epstein
>>>>> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
>>>>> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
>>>>> family member or close friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
>>>>> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
>>>>> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
>>>>> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
>>>>> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot, Tony.
>>>>
>>>> I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
>>>> "My condolences to you for being the way you are".
>>>>
>>>> I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your interpretation
>>>> is correct.
>>>> But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies "being distressed",
>>>> and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome" before posting.
>>>>
>>>> Paul Epstein
>>> Well, see, that's the problem with using words. We don't know, when
>>> we use them, how they will be taken.
>>>
>>> Take "irksome". It can mean "bothersome". Something that bothers you
>>> can distress you. There's no point where "irksome" indicates where
>>> being bothered becomes being distressed.
>>>
>>> If I make the statement: "I find it irksome that John doesn't reply
>>> to my emails" how do you know my level of reaction? Am I mildly
>>> bothered by this, or am I constantly annoyed by this? If I'm mildly
>>> bothered I'm not distressed, but if I'm constantly annoyed by this it
>>> does distress me.
>>> --
>> Agreed, and even if everyone realised that by "irksome", I only meant
>> "mildly irritated", your point still makes perfect sense. Snidely might then
>> (legitimately) hold the opinion that, for me to care about the issue at all,
>> is an overreaction, and he is entitled to satirise this.
>> The problem was that (as above) I totally misunderstood the "condolences"
>> reference. If I hit on your (almost certainly correct) interpretation, I would not
>> have minded at all.
>>
>> Paul Epstein
>
> Just realised that the "he" isn't really justified

Sure it is. It's been the default pronoun for people of unknown
gender since forever. If it's good enough for those of centuries
past, it's good enough for us.

> -- "Snidely" isn't exactly a masculine
> name.

> Probabilistically, I would think that from the picture we get from Snidely's postings, Snidely is more likely
> to be male than not male, but I was wrong to assume this.

I agree with your odds, and what's "wrong" with assuming the most
likely case? If you're wrong and she cares, she can tell you, and
then you'll know.

> Usually I avoid masculine pronouns when I don't know, but I slipped up here.

No harm, no foul.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:

> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> when the song was made. Here's a link:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8

One
>
useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
some policy they wanted.

The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
can see that being called "practising politics".

Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
the cause of job security.

Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
respect as he deserves.

On 2022-12-21 15:08:47 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:

> On 21/12/2022 2:33 pm, Paul Epstein wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:29:29 PM UTC, Paul Epstein wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:14:51 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 05:57:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
>>>> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:10:55 PM UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 03:58:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
>>>>>> <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 8:09:19 AM UTC, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Paul Epstein formulated the question :
>>>>>>>>> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with beautiful,
>>>>>>>>> intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a line that simply
>>>>>>>>> doesn't work (in my opinion).
>>>>>>>>> About 95% of Billy Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's
>>>>>>>>> no way the waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
>>>>>>>>> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>>>>>>>>> can be described as "practising politics"
>>>>>>>> Lek the #metoo movement isn't practicing politics?
>>>>>>>>> and I doubt that this terrible
>>>>>>>>> lyric can be explained by saying how different things were when the
>>>>>>>>> song was made.
>>>>>>>> No, it has to do with "allusion", which might escape a very literal
>>>>>>>> interpretation.
>>>>>>>>> Here's a link:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank You,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul Epstein
>>>>>>>> My condolences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please explain the "My condolences." line!
>>>>>>> You don't know anything about me.
>>>>>>> The "My condolences." part does _not_ seem appropriate,
>>>>>>> and certainly needs to be explained.
>>>>>>> Until I hear further, I object to you putting "My condolences." into
>>>>>>> your reply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to ask others about my complaint.
>>>>>>> How do other readers feel about the "My condolences" line?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Epstein
>>>>>> A "condolence" is an expression of sympathy. It is normally used as
>>>>>> an expression of sympathy to someone who has experienced a death of a
>>>>>> family member or close friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, it was used by Snidely as an ironic reply to a post that
>>>>>> expressed distress over the lyrics of a song. Evidently, Snidely
>>>>>> feels that your reaction was a bit over-the-top. In using an
>>>>>> over-the-top expression for the situation as a reply, he was matching
>>>>>> your level of reaction. Appropriate, then, for the context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot, Tony.
>>>>>
>>>>> I totally misunderstood it. I somehow thought Snidely meant
>>>>> "My condolences to you for being the way you are".
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm relieved that Snidely didn't mean this, and I'm now sure your
>>>>> interpretation
>>>>> is correct.
>>>>> But did I really "express distress"? I don't think "irksome" implies
>>>>> "being distressed",
>>>>> and I did take the precaution of googling the definition of "irksome"
>>>>> before posting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Epstein
>>>> Well, see, that's the problem with using words. We don't know, when
>>>> we use them, how they will be taken.
>>>>
>>>> Take "irksome". It can mean "bothersome". Something that bothers you
>>>> can distress you. There's no point where "irksome" indicates where
>>>> being bothered becomes being distressed.
>>>>
>>>> If I make the statement: "I find it irksome that John doesn't reply
>>>> to my emails" how do you know my level of reaction? Am I mildly
>>>> bothered by this, or am I constantly annoyed by this? If I'm mildly
>>>> bothered I'm not distressed, but if I'm constantly annoyed by this it
>>>> does distress me.
>>>> --
>>> Agreed, and even if everyone realised that by "irksome", I only meant
>>> "mildly irritated", your point still makes perfect sense. Snidely might then
>>> (legitimately) hold the opinion that, for me to care about the issue at all,
>>> is an overreaction, and he is entitled to satirise this.
>>> The problem was that (as above) I totally misunderstood the "condolences"
>>> reference. If I hit on your (almost certainly correct) interpretation,
>>> I would not
>>> have minded at all.
>>>
>>> Paul Epstein
>>
>> Just realised that the "he" isn't really justified
>
> Sure it is. It's been the default pronoun for people of unknown gender
> since forever. If it's good enough for those of centuries past, it's
> good enough for us.
>
>> -- "Snidely" isn't exactly a masculine
>> name.
>
>> Probabilistically, I would think that from the picture we get from
>> Snidely's postings, Snidely is more likely
>> to be male than not male, but I was wrong to assume this.
>
> I agree with your odds, and what's "wrong" with assuming the most
> likely case? If you're wrong and she cares, she can tell you, and then
> you'll know.
>
>> Usually I avoid masculine pronouns when I don't know, but I slipped up here.
>
> No harm, no foul.

The photo at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ indicates male.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36+ years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 9:33:31 AM UTC-5, Paul Epstein wrote:

> Just realised that the "he" isn't really justified -- "Snidely" isn't exactly a masculine
> name. Probabilistically, I would think that from the picture we get from
> Snidely's postings, Snidely is more likely
> to be male than not male, but I was wrong to assume this.
> Usually I avoid masculine pronouns when I don't know, but I slipped up here.

The cartoon character "Snidely Whiplash" from which the name
is presumably borrowed is male.

ISTR that Snidely has occasionally signed a message with a
masculine name (but not what it is).

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 10:39:41 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:

> > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> > beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> > line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> > Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> > waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> > terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> > when the song was made. Here's a link:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> One
>
> useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
> before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> some policy they wanted.
>
> The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
> can see that being called "practising politics".
>
> Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
> the cause of job security.

I doubt that the women would think of it as "politicking," though --
just "doing what is [was in those days] necessary to survive," or
"going along to get along." The songwriter, however, definitely
is political (cf. "We Didn't Start the Fire"; that and "Piano Man,"
both seen on SNL (same night? different appearanxces?) were
what turned me on to Billy Joel).

> Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
> respect as he deserves.

Den 21.12.2022 kl. 14.01 skrev Richard Heathfield:

> Sometimes one's jokes seem hilarious right up until one clicks 'Send'.

Tell me about it.

--
Bertel

On 21/12/2022 03:39 pm, CDB wrote:

> On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:
>
>> I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
>> beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
>> line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
>> Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
>> waitress is "practising politics".  In the video, she's defending
>> herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
>> can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
>> terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
>> when the song was made. Here's a link:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
>>
>
> One
>>
> useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions.  I worked
> before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> some policy they wanted.
>
> The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip.  I
> can see that being called "practising politics".

Indeed. Shakespeare knew and used the word in that sense, though it was
usually used as an adjective: "politic", meaning "shrewd" or perhaps
"cunning".
>
> Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> treating him as if he were a desirable male.  Politics again, IMO, in
> the cause of job security.
>
> Thank you for posting the link.  I may not have been giving Joel as much
> respect as he deserves.
>

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:51:10 PM UTC, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 10:39:41 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> > On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:
>
> > > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> > > beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> > > line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> > > Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> > > waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > > can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> > > terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> > > when the song was made. Here's a link:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> > One
> >
> > useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> > speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
> > before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> > that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> > some policy they wanted.
> >
> > The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> > suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
> > can see that being called "practising politics".
> >
> > Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> > treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
> > the cause of job security.
> I doubt that the women would think of it as "politicking," though --
> just "doing what is [was in those days] necessary to survive," or
> "going along to get along." The songwriter, however, definitely
> is political (cf. "We Didn't Start the Fire"; that and "Piano Man,"
> both seen on SNL (same night? different appearanxces?) were
> what turned me on to Billy Joel).
> > Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
> > respect as he deserves.

Great. So you basically seem to agree with me. As far as I can recall, this is
a first (which by no means implies that your previous disagreements were
unjustified.)

Paul Epstein

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 08:51:07 -0800 (PST)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 10:39:41 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> > On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:
>
> > > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> > > beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> > > line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> > > Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> > > waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > > can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> > > terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> > > when the song was made. Here's a link:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> > One
> >
> > useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> > speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
> > before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> > that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> > some policy they wanted.
> >
> > The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> > suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
> > can see that being called "practising politics".
> >
> > Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> > treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
> > the cause of job security.
>
> I doubt that the women would think of it as "politicking," though --
> just "doing what is [was in those days] necessary to survive," or
> "going along to get along." The songwriter, however, definitely
> is political (cf. "We Didn't Start the Fire"; that and "Piano Man,"
> both seen on SNL (same night? different appearanxces?) were
> what turned me on to Billy Joel).
>
'We Didn't Start the Fire' is what put me off Mr Joel; I saw him as
an apologist for US foreign policy.

> > Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
> > respect as he deserves.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-5, Paul Epstein wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:51:10 PM UTC, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 10:39:41 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> > > On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:
> >
> > > > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> > > > beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> > > > line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> > > > Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> > > > waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > > > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > > > can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> > > > terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> > > > when the song was made. Here's a link:
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> > > One
> > >
> > > useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> > > speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
> > > before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> > > that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> > > some policy they wanted.
> > >
> > > The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> > > suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
> > > can see that being called "practising politics".
> > >
> > > Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> > > treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
> > > the cause of job security.
> > I doubt that the women would think of it as "politicking," though --
> > just "doing what is [was in those days] necessary to survive," or
> > "going along to get along." The songwriter, however, definitely
> > is political (cf. "We Didn't Start the Fire"; that and "Piano Man,"
> > both seen on SNL (same night? different appearanxces?) were
> > what turned me on to Billy Joel).
> > > Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
> > > respect as he deserves.
> Great. So you

Me, whom you replied to, or Paul, whom you answered here?

> basically seem to agree with me. As far as I can recall, this is
> a first

Not me, I guess.

> (which by no means implies that your previous disagreements were
> unjustified.)

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 2:40:06 PM UTC-5, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 08:51:07 -0800 (PST)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 10:39:41 AM UTC-5, CDB wrote:
> > > On 12/20/2022 6:26 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:

> > > > I find it irksome when I hear a generally wonderful song, with
> > > > beautiful, intelligent and heartfelt lyrics, and yet is marred by a
> > > > line that simply doesn't work (in my opinion). About 95% of Billy
> > > > Joel's Piano Man is wonderful lyrically, but there's no way the
> > > > waitress is "practising politics". In the video, she's defending
> > > > herself against physical sexual harassment, but there's no way that
> > > > can be described as "practising politics" and I doubt that this
> > > > terrible lyric can be explained by saying how different things were
> > > > when the song was made. Here's a link:
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=8
> > > One
> > > useful definition of "politics" (note small 'p') is that it is
> > > speech or behaviour intended to influence someone's reactions. I worked
> > > before my retirement around many large-P politicians, and I can testify
> > > that they naturally spoke and behaved with the intention of promoting
> > > some policy they wanted.
> > > The first waitress reacts angrily to being fondled, but quickly
> > > suppresses that reaction and smiles, because she wants a good tip. I
> > > can see that being called "practising politics".
> > > Late in the video, both waitresses are making up to the manager,
> > > treating him as if he were a desirable male. Politics again, IMO, in
> > > the cause of job security.
> > I doubt that the women would think of it as "politicking," though --
> > just "doing what is [was in those days] necessary to survive," or
> > "going along to get along." The songwriter, however, definitely
> > is political (cf. "We Didn't Start the Fire"; that and "Piano Man,"
> > both seen on SNL (same night? different appearances?) were
> > what turned me on to Billy Joel).
>
> 'We Didn't Start the Fire' is what put me off Mr Joel; I saw him as
> an apologist for US foreign policy.

A truly bizarre opinion. It is a protest song.

> > > Thank you for posting the link. I may not have been giving Joel as much
> > > respect as he deserves.
> --
> Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 22/12/22 04:03, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 21.12.2022 kl. 14.01 skrev Richard Heathfield:
>
>> Sometimes one's jokes seem hilarious right up until one clicks
>> 'Send'.
>
> Tell me about it.

It would probably do us all some good if the "Send" button had a
built-in 24-hour delay. (And if we were prompted, after that delay, with
a "Do you still want to send this?"

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org