Subject: Mighty RP of you?

This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
truth in the UK, you must speak RP.

Received by email:

I found this video very interesting,
https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU

I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent, as well
as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the local New
Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV and made the
comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it interesting that
this expert supports this claim.

In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
says...
>
> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>
> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>
> Received by email:
>
> I found this video very interesting,
> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>
> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent

which one?

, as well
> as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
> here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
> upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
> particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the local New
> Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV and made the
> comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
> accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it interesting that
> this expert supports this claim.

It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
in the link.

She's speaking RP standard English.

She does not have an "upperclass British accent".

Janet

Janet

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
> 34e8c7...@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> says...
> >
> > Subject: Mighty RP of you?
> >
> > This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
> > truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
> >
> > Received by email:
> >
> > I found this video very interesting,
> > https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
> >
> > I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
> > He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>
> which one?

The one he saw in films as a kid? Sean Connery?

On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
> says...
>>
>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>
>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>
>> Received by email:
>>
>> I found this video very interesting,
>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>
>> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>
>
> which one?

The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
attractive in the UK").

>
> , as well
>> as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
>> here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
>> upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
>> particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the local New
>> Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV and made the
>> comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
>> accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it interesting that
>> this expert supports this claim.
>
> It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
> in the link.
>
> She's speaking RP standard English.
>
> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>

Yes, for an upper class British accent, Ranjit must learn to use some
racist slurs along with RP. For a recent example, see the story of Susan
Hussey. Don't accept 'England' as an answer to the question 'where are
you from', if their skin is not white.

On 2022-12-14 16:10:57 +0000, occam said:

> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
>> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
>> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>>
>>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>>> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>>
>>> Received by email:
>>>
>>> I found this video very interesting,
>>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>>
>>> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>>> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>>
>>
>> which one?
>
> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
> attractive in the UK").

Never been to Birmingham?

>
>
>>
>> , as well
>>> as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
>>> here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
>>> upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
>>> particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the local New
>>> Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV and made the
>>> comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
>>> accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it interesting that
>>> this expert supports this claim.
>>
>> It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
>> in the link.
>>
>> She's speaking RP standard English.
>>
>> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>>
>
> Yes, for an upper class British accent, Ranjit must learn to use some
> racist slurs along with RP. For a recent example, see the story of Susan
> Hussey. Don't accept 'England' as an answer to the question 'where are
> you from', if their skin is not white.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36+ years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 14/12/2022 4:10 pm, occam wrote:
> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
>> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
>> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>>
>>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>>> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>>
>>> Received by email:
>>>
>>> I found this video very interesting,
>>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>>
>>> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>>> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>>
>>
>> which one?
>
> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
> attractive in the UK").
>
>
>>
>> , as well
>>> as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
>>> here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
>>> upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
>>> particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the local New
>>> Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV and made the
>>> comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
>>> accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it interesting that
>>> this expert supports this claim.
>>
>> It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
>> in the link.
>>
>> She's speaking RP standard English.
>>
>> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>>
>
> Yes, for an upper class British accent, Ranjit must learn to use some
> racist slurs along with RP. For a recent example, see the story of Susan
> Hussey. Don't accept 'England' as an answer to the question 'where are
> you from', if their skin is not white.

Where I come from, we cut OAPs a bit of slack. Or we used to.
Lady Hussey is 83 years old, for pity's sake.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 14/12/2022 17:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-12-14 16:10:57 +0000, occam said:
>
>> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
>>> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>>>
>>>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>>>> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>>>
>>>> Received by email:
>>>>
>>>> I found this video very interesting,
>>>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>>>
>>>> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>>>> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>>>
>>>
>>> which one?
>>
>> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
>> attractive in the UK").
>
> Never been to Birmingham?
>

Never got closer to it than the M5. Small mercies.

On 14/12/2022 17:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 14/12/2022 4:10 pm, occam wrote:
>> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
>>> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>>>
>>>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>>>>   truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>>>
>>>> Received by email:
>>>>
>>>> I found this video very interesting,
>>>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>>>
>>>>   I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>>>>   He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>>>
>>>
>>>     which one?
>>
>> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
>> attractive in the UK").
>>
>>
>>>
>>> , as well
>>>>   as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
>>>>   here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
>>>>   upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
>>>>   particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the
>>>> local New
>>>>   Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV  and made the
>>>>   comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
>>>>   accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it
>>>> interesting that
>>>>   this expert supports this claim.
>>>
>>>     It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
>>> in the link.
>>>
>>> She's speaking RP standard English.
>>>
>>> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>>>
>>
>> Yes, for an upper class British accent, Ranjit must learn to use some
>> racist slurs along with RP. For a recent example, see the story of Susan
>> Hussey.  Don't accept 'England' as an answer to the question 'where are
>> you from', if their skin is not white.
>
> Where I come from, we cut OAPs a bit of slack. Or we used to. Lady
> Hussey is 83 years old, for pity's sake.

I am officially an OAP (as are most of the people on this forum). Do
bear that in mind next time I launch into non-PC tirade.

On 14/12/2022 5:07 pm, occam wrote:
> On 14/12/2022 17:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 14/12/2022 4:10 pm, occam wrote:
>>> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
>>>> In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
>>>> 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
>>>>>
>>>>> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
>>>>>   truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
>>>>>
>>>>> Received by email:
>>>>>
>>>>> I found this video very interesting,
>>>>> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
>>>>>
>>>>>   I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
>>>>>   He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     which one?
>>>
>>> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
>>> attractive in the UK").
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> , as well
>>>>>   as other British accents.The language expert who speaks to him
>>>>>   here says that studies have shown that the same thing said with her
>>>>>   upper class British accent will be believed while said with his
>>>>>   particular Scottish accent it will not. I recently called the
>>>>> local New
>>>>>   Jersey PBS channel that daily carries BBC TV  and made the
>>>>>   comment that when the news is reported with the upper class British
>>>>>   accent it will be much more readily believed. I found it
>>>>> interesting that
>>>>>   this expert supports this claim.
>>>>
>>>>     It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
>>>> in the link.
>>>>
>>>> She's speaking RP standard English.
>>>>
>>>> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, for an upper class British accent, Ranjit must learn to use some
>>> racist slurs along with RP. For a recent example, see the story of Susan
>>> Hussey.  Don't accept 'England' as an answer to the question 'where are
>>> you from', if their skin is not white.
>>
>> Where I come from, we cut OAPs a bit of slack. Or we used to. Lady
>> Hussey is 83 years old, for pity's sake.
>
>
> I am officially an OAP (as are most of the people on this forum). Do
> bear that in mind next time I launch into non-PC tirade.

Launch away! And let the intolerant start practising what they
preach - by tolerating people who happen to be different.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Den 14.12.2022 kl. 17.10 skrev occam:

> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
> attractive in the UK").

Not by me.

--
Bertel

In article <jvuasiFtok7U1@mid.individual.net>,
occam@nowhere.nix says...
> Subject: Re: Mighty RP of you?
> From: occam <occam@nowhere.nix>
> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
>
> On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
> > In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
> > 34e8c766c7b4n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >>
> >> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
> >>
> >> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
> >> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
> >>
> >> Received by email:
> >>
> >> I found this video very interesting,
> >> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
> >>
> >> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
> >> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
> >
> >
> > which one?
>
> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
> attractive in the UK").

Glaswegian is one of a number of distinctive
Scottish accents, perhaps you didn't know that.

I asked which Scottish accent Ranjit likes to use.

Janet

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:

> She's speaking RP standard English.
>
> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".

What's the difference?

In article <7baf04bc-3ea7-4f55-955f-
1f878441d1aan@googlegroups.com>, grammatim@verizon.net
says...
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> > She's speaking RP standard English.
> >
> > She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>
> What's the difference?

https://pronunciationstudio.com/upper-received-
pronunciation/

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-
d&q=upperclass+voice#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d1a77b08,vid:g0qS
hxkuS7Q

Janet

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:07:14 AM UTC-8, Janet wrote:
> In article <jvuasi...@mid.individual.net>,
> oc...@nowhere.nix says...
> > Subject: Re: Mighty RP of you?
> > From: occam <oc...@nowhere.nix>
> > Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
> >
> > On 14/12/2022 16:12, Janet wrote:
> > > In article <7ca8a91d-a3f2-4749-9211-
> > > 34e8c7...@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> > > says...
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Mighty RP of you?
> > >>
> > >> This suggests that if you want to be perceived as speaking the
> > >> truth in the UK, you must speak RP.
> > >>
> > >> Received by email:
> > >>
> > >> I found this video very interesting,
> > >> https://youtu.be/6jd7kHjsYNU
> > >>
> > >> I heard him give an interesting lecture on BBC radio while in my car.
> > >> He is also a successful writer. I like to use a Scottish accent
> > >
> > >
> > > which one?
> >
> > The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
> > attractive in the UK").
> Glaswegian is one of a number of distinctive
> Scottish accents, perhaps you didn't know that.
>
>
> I asked which Scottish accent Ranjit likes to use.
>
I forwarded someone else's comments, not my own. He mimics accents
and wrote that he likes to mimic a Scottish one. He probably means RP
with features borrowed from Scottish accents; it's most unlikely that he
knows to authentically reproduce any regional Scottish accent, never
having resided outside the US. It's curious that something motivated him
to call a TV station and suggest that an RP accent endows a newscaster
with the image of being honest.

As for me, I like a Scottish variant of RP that retains trills substantially
lost in English RP, eg. the initial trill in RULE. I had a very hard time
comprehending my taxi driver in Edinburgh; I couldn't use that English
even if I wanted to, though his incomprehensibility could have derived
from his speaking a language that was more Scots than English.

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:22:03 AM UTC-8, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> > She's speaking RP standard English.
> >
> > She does not have an "upper class British accent".
>
> What's the difference?

I don't know of RP speakers called lower class. If Janet were to know
of many RP speakers considered lower class, she'd make that point
credibly. She hasn't identified such people or groups of people, so
the basi(e)s of her contention/ point eludes us.

On 14 Dec 2022 at 15:12:40, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>
> It's a pity you didn't pay attention to what she said
> in the link.
>
> She's speaking RP standard English.
>
> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>

Speech is an attempt to communicate with other people,
so if the person speaking is understood by the target
audience, then fine. Otherwise, the speaker needs to
make some adjustment.

Den 15.12.2022 kl. 03.29 skrev Dingbat:

> As for me, I like a Scottish variant of RP that retains trills substantially
> lost in English RP, eg. the initial trill in RULE.

A net friend of mine would like to be able to say "murder" like Jim
Taggart does.

--
Bertel

Le 14/12/2022 à 19:22, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>>
>> She's speaking RP standard English.
>>
>> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
>
> What's the difference?

RP is, I suppose, the pronunciation of educated British people, or used
to be. It is standard English, with little or no trace of a regional
accent, and is what one expects, or used to expect, from BBC announcers
and newsreaders, bank managers, academics, et al..

These people are usually middle class, not upper class. There is an
additional quality that marks upper-class accents. Talking with a gob
full of marbles isn't right, I think. It's sometimes described as
clipped. I think it can sound as if words are being handled while
wearing gloves, at a slight distance.

That's all a bit woolly, I'm afraid, and accents have changed over time.
I imagine Youtube would supply examples, if you wanted them.

On 14/12/2022 19:31, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 17.10 skrev occam:
>
>> The video is about the Glaswegian accent ("considered the least
>> attractive in the UK").
>
> Not by me.
>

Your proclivities aside, the Glaswegian accent is - without a doubt -
the most threatening sounding of the lot. Next to the Russian accent,
it's the accent I'd least like to hear when accosted by a stranger in a
dark alley.

Den 15.12.2022 kl. 10.39 skrev occam:

> Your proclivities aside, the Glaswegian accent is - without a doubt -
> the most threatening sounding of the lot. Next to the Russian accent,
> it's the accent I'd least like to hear when accosted by a stranger in a
> dark alley.

I had tio look up "proclivities" though I pretty much understood what it
meant. As always I checked the origin where Oxford Learner's said:

late 16th cent.: from Latin proclivitas, from proclivis
‘inclined’, from pro- ‘forward, down’ + clivus ‘slope’.

I then knew the Danish translation, "tilbøjelighed" -
directly "til-bend-ly-ness" and again marvelled at the indentical
underlying thought with two words from different languages.

--
Bertel

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:14:23 AM UTC-8, Hibou wrote:
> Le 14/12/2022 à 19:22, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> >>
> >> She's speaking RP standard English.
> >>
> >> She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
> >
> > What's the difference?
> RP is, I suppose, the pronunciation of educated British people, or used
> to be. It is standard English, with little or no trace of a regional
> accent, and is what one expects, or used to expect, from BBC announcers
> and newsreaders, bank managers, academics, et al..
>
> These people are usually middle class, not upper class. There is an
> additional quality that marks upper-class accents. Talking with a gob
> full of marbles isn't right, I think. It's sometimes described as
> clipped. I think it can sound as if words are being handled while
> wearing gloves, at a slight distance.
>
> That's all a bit woolly, I'm afraid, and accents have changed over time.
> I imagine Youtube would supply examples, if you wanted them.

Ah, you're dividing British society into more than 2 classes. If
everyone not considered lower class were called upper class,
bank managers and academics would be upper class.

Le 15/12/2022 à 11:05, Dingbat a écrit :
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:14:23 AM UTC-8, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> That's all a bit woolly, I'm afraid, and accents have changed over time.
>> I imagine Youtube would supply examples, if you wanted them.
>
> Ah, you're dividing British society into more than 2 classes. If
> everyone not considered lower class were called upper class,
> bank managers and academics would be upper class.

It's simpler on the railways - first class and standard class. (Yes, I
know, puzzles me too.)

A guide for the uninitiated:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIHrX-Jp2E> (1m 37s)

In article <tnf6ee$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:
> Le 15/12/2022 à 11:05, Dingbat a écrit :
> > On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:14:23 AM UTC-8, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >> That's all a bit woolly, I'm afraid, and accents have changed over time.
> >> I imagine Youtube would supply examples, if you wanted them.
> >
> > Ah, you're dividing British society into more than 2 classes. If
> > everyone not considered lower class were called upper class,
> > bank managers and academics would be upper class.

> It's simpler on the railways - first class and standard class. (Yes, I
> know, puzzles me too.)

> A guide for the uninitiated:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIHrX-Jp2E> (1m 37s)

It used to be 1st Class, 2nd Class & 3rd Class. They dropped 2nd class
(inthe 1930s I think). Much later 3rd became "Standard".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 3:15:06 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> In article <7baf04bc-3ea7-4f55-955f-
> 1f8784...@googlegroups.com>, gram...@verizon.net
> says...
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> >
> > > She's speaking RP standard English.
> > >
> > > She does not have an "upperclass British accent".
> >
> > What's the difference?
> https://pronunciationstudio.com/upper-received-
> pronunciation/

So you think "Upper RP" isn't RP?

Shaw (who was on the BBC committee that made these decisions)
urged that BBC pronunciation, which is now called RP, be based on
the speech of George V -- who was dead and had made very few
recordings. You can't get any more "Upper" than that.

> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-
> d&q=upperclass+voice#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d1a77b08,vid:g0qS
> hxkuS7Q

In article <8739ae21-5063-49a4-a284-
d1d64327a5a8n@googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
says...
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:22:03 AM UTC-8, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> > > She's speaking RP standard English.
> > >
> > > She does not have an "upper class British accent".
> >
> > What's the difference?
>
> I don't know of RP speakers called lower class. If Janet were to know
> of many RP speakers considered lower class, she'd make that point
> credibly. She hasn't identified such people or groups of people, so
> the basi(e)s of her contention/ point eludes us.

You don't speak for me.

Janet