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Re: "Negosiations have commenced"

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Subject: Re: "Negosiations have commenced"
From: bruce2bo...@gmail.com (bruce bowser)
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by: bruce bowser - Tue, 22 Nov 2022 10:56 UTC

On Tuesday, September 10, 1991 at 6:32:12 AM UTC-4, Torkel Franzen wrote:
> In article <1991Sep9.0...@vax.oxford.ac.uk> dla...@vax.oxford.ac.uk
> (Rob Hutchings) writes:
> >Chambers gives -shi-at (long a) as the standard pronunciation of all forms
> >of both words, also of satiate.
> This was what I had in mind as the standard pronunciation (and the
> only one I've seen in any dictionary), although I apparently failed to
> make this clear in my article. However, I have since learned, through
> an enlightening email correspondence, that the (British?)
> pronunciation of these words is apparently in a flux as regards "si"
> and "shi", although dictionaries haven't yet included "siate" as an
> alternative pronunciation of words spelled "tiate". My having
> noticed this phenomenon only in the case of the word "negotiate" is in
> all likelihood due to the fact that this word occurs a lot in TV and
> radio newscasts.

Its easy to give up trying to follow standards. Like in Germany, with Leipzig (you hear "LIp sish", ("LIp sich") very gutteral - post 1940's?).. You thought that 'z' wasn't supposed to sound like an 's' that much (post 1940's?). Or with Englis language "s" endings always sounding like "z". And sounding like that both at the start and finish of words in German?

Re: "Negosiations have commenced"

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: "Negosiations have commenced"
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by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 22 Nov 2022 11:27 UTC

On 22/11/22 21:56, bruce bowser wrote:

[Resurrection of zombie thread ignored]

> Its easy to give up trying to follow standards. Like in Germany,
> with Leipzig (you hear "LIp sish", ("LIp sich") very gutteral - post
> 1940's?).. You thought that 'z' wasn't supposed to sound like an
> 's' that much (post 1940's?). Or with Englis language "s" endings
> always sounding like "z". And sounding like that both at the start
> and finish of words in German?

The "sounding like that" part is very simple. English tends to voice an
's' at the end of a syllable. German tends to voice an 's' at the
beginning of a syllable. Simples.

(English and German speakers will hear that last word differently.)

I won't comment on the further phenomena involved in the pronunciation
of Liepzig.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

A visit to a fresh place will bring strange work.

interests / alt.usage.english / Re: "Negosiations have commenced"

interests / alt.usage.english / Re: "Negosiations have commenced"

Subject	Author
Re: "Negosiations have commenced"	bruce bowser
Re: "Negosiations have commenced"	Peter Moylan