"Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
zero-knowledge proof." [1]

Question:
Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?

[1]
https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/

Le 24/10/2022 à 10:24, occam a écrit :
>
> "Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
> key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
> knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
> proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
> zero-knowledge proof." [1]
>
> Question:
> Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
> principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
> convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?
>
> [1]
> https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/

The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.

I'm not sure if the idea would be useful in aue. It's reasonable to seek
guidance for a text that can't be made public, but proving one knows
something without revealing it? I'd like an example, I think.

Is there an application in blackmail? That might be interesting....

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:50:20 +0100
Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:

> Le 24/10/2022 à 10:24, occam a écrit :
> >
> > "Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
> > key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
> > knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
> > proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
> > zero-knowledge proof." [1]
> >
> > Question:
> > Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
> > principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
> > convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?
> >
> > [1]
> > https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/
>
> The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
> left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
> the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.

Not necessarily if there are several entrances you might get through
without visiting the centre.

>
> I'm not sure if the idea would be useful in aue. It's reasonable to seek
> guidance for a text that can't be made public, but proving one knows
> something without revealing it? I'd like an example, I think.
>
> Is there an application in blackmail? That might be interesting....
>
Your secret is safe with me. For now.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 24/10/2022 12:50, Hibou wrote:
> Le 24/10/2022 à 10:24, occam a écrit :
>>
>> "Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
>> key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
>> knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
>> proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
>> zero-knowledge proof." [1]
>>
>> Question:
>> Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
>> principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
>> convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/
>
> The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
> left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
> the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.
>
> I'm not sure if the idea would be useful in aue. It's reasonable to seek
> guidance for a text that can't be made public, but proving one knows
> something without revealing it? I'd like an example, I think.
>
> Is there an application in blackmail? That might be interesting....
>
>

Not necessarily just for blackmail. Consider for a moment those of us
who go under cover of a nym here in AUE. If I knew the true identity of
say, 'Hibou', and I wanted to prove this to you, without revealing the
secret to the other contributors of AUE. The zero-knowledge-proof could
come in handy.

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:50:25 AM UTC-6, Hibou wrote:
> Le 24/10/2022 à 10:24, occam a écrit :
> >
> > "Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
> > key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
> > knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
> > proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
> > zero-knowledge proof." [1]
> >
> > Question:
> > Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
> > principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
> > convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?
> >
> > [1]
> > https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/

> The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
> left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
> the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.
....

That's only true for a simply connected maze--one with no loops or islands.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/number-game/Mazes#ref396167

--
Jerry Friedman

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:50:20 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 24/10/2022 à 10:24, occam a écrit :
>>
>> "Imagine you had some useful knowledge — maybe a secret recipe, or the
>> key to a cipher. Could you prove to a friend that you had that
>> knowledge, without revealing anything about it? Computer scientists
>> proved over 30 years ago that you could, if you used what’s called a
>> zero-knowledge proof." [1]
>>
>> Question:
>> Apart from being a very interesting concept, I was wondering if this
>> principle [zero-knowledge proof] could be used in AUE discussions to
>> convey certain knowledge without revealing the facts (or sources)?
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-prove-you-know-a-secret-without-giving-it-away-20221011/
>
>The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
>left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
>the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.

No, there are some mazes that can not be solved that way. Leaving
aside the silly examples on this page, go to
https://bullshit.ist/top-10-mazes-you-cant-solve-by-following-the-right-wall-40ac5550ecf
to see some good examples.

>

Le 24/10/2022 à 15:14, Ken Blake a écrit :
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:50:20 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> The maze analogy is not good, because one can solve any maze by turning
>> left (or indeed right) at every junction; eventually one will arrive at
>> the centre; it's not necessary to resort to trial and error.
>
> No, there are some mazes that can not be solved that way. Leaving
> aside the silly examples on this page, go to
> https://bullshit.ist/top-10-mazes-you-cant-solve-by-following-the-right-wall-40ac5550ecf
> to see some good examples.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I'll be careful in mazes (and city
centres) from now on.

(Apologies for the late reply. I've somehow neglected to pass this way
since the 24th.)

Le 24/10/2022 à 12:22, occam a écrit :
> On 24/10/2022 12:50, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Is there an application in blackmail? That might be interesting....
>
> Not necessarily just for blackmail. Consider for a moment those of us
> who go under cover of a nym here in AUE. If I knew the true identity of
> say, 'Hibou', and I wanted to prove this to you, without revealing the
> secret to the other contributors of AUE. The zero-knowledge-proof could
> come in handy.

That reminds me of Bertie Wooster stopping Roderick Spoke dead in his
tracks by telling him he knew all about Eulalie.

I daresay the concept is very old, even if the proof is recent.