As anti-vaxxers have found that their old remedies (I guess ivermectin,
oxychloroquine? are meant) do not work, they've been trying new things:

Gargling with iodine
Bathing in borax solution to draw the virus out of their bodies.
Dipping babies and dogs in black water, Black Oxygen Organics. "Magic
dirt", drinking it.

I heard this on Rachel Maddow. From past shows of her saying surprising
things that turned out to be true, I'm sure there's a some truth to
this.

Yes, she didn't make it up!
This is the best one I've found:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/magic-dirt-internet-fueled-defeated-pandemics-weirdest-mlm-rcna6950
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B07845NMNL
The reviews are still there**
https://www.amazon.com/Terrahydrite-Substances-Digestive-Protection-Environmentals/dp/B07845NMNL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top
Currently unavailable. Because they can't get it, or because Amazon
will no longer sell it? But don't despair:
https://revelationhealth.com/products/restore-magic-dirt-water-8oz-bottle
Only 30 dollars for 8 ounces. "Perfect for kids". More expensive ounce
for ounce than the Pet Rock. (But at least the Pet Rock knew how to sit
when commanded.)

BTW, that someone's Amazon review is associated with a Verified Purchase
does not mean the rater is not a plant, or he's not affiliated with the
product he's praising. All he has to do is buy one via Amazon and then
he can write a Verified Purchase review. All he needs is a bunch of
email addresses and he can do it over and over, and his parents,
children, etc, can do it too.

I haven't checked the iodine gargles or borax baths. Has anyone seen ads
or articles for them?

On 12/2/2021 7:13 PM, micky wrote:
> As anti-vaxxers have found that their old remedies (I guess ivermectin,
> oxychloroquine? are meant) do not work, they've been trying new things:
>
> Gargling with iodine
> Bathing in borax solution to draw the virus out of their bodies.
> Dipping babies and dogs in black water, Black Oxygen Organics. "Magic
> dirt", drinking it.
>
> I heard this on Rachel Maddow. From past shows of her saying surprising
> things that turned out to be true, I'm sure there's a some truth to
> this.
>
> Yes, she didn't make it up!
> This is the best one I've found:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/magic-dirt-internet-fueled-defeated-pandemics-weirdest-mlm-rcna6950
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B07845NMNL
> The reviews are still there**
> https://www.amazon.com/Terrahydrite-Substances-Digestive-Protection-Environmentals/dp/B07845NMNL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top
> Currently unavailable. Because they can't get it, or because Amazon
> will no longer sell it? But don't despair:
> https://revelationhealth.com/products/restore-magic-dirt-water-8oz-bottle
> Only 30 dollars for 8 ounces. "Perfect for kids". More expensive ounce
> for ounce than the Pet Rock. (But at least the Pet Rock knew how to sit
> when commanded.)
>
>
> BTW, that someone's Amazon review is associated with a Verified Purchase
> does not mean the rater is not a plant, or he's not affiliated with the
> product he's praising. All he has to do is buy one via Amazon and then
> he can write a Verified Purchase review. All he needs is a bunch of
> email addresses and he can do it over and over, and his parents,
> children, etc, can do it too.
>
>
> I haven't checked the iodine gargles or borax baths. Has anyone seen ads
> or articles for them?
>

And tested by certified labs proving it contains significant levels of
helpful lead and arsenic, from the landfill next to the source.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:37:27 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/2/2021 7:13 PM, micky wrote:
>> As anti-vaxxers have found that their old remedies (I guess ivermectin,
>> oxychloroquine? are meant) do not work, they've been trying new things:
>>
>> Gargling with iodine
>> Bathing in borax solution to draw the virus out of their bodies.
>> Dipping babies and dogs in black water, Black Oxygen Organics. "Magic
>> dirt", drinking it.
>>
>> I heard this on Rachel Maddow. From past shows of her saying surprising
>> things that turned out to be true, I'm sure there's a some truth to
>> this.
>>
>> Yes, she didn't make it up!
>> This is the best one I've found:
>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/magic-dirt-internet-fueled-defeated-pandemics-weirdest-mlm-rcna6950
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B07845NMNL
>> The reviews are still there**
>> https://www.amazon.com/Terrahydrite-Substances-Digestive-Protection-Environmentals/dp/B07845NMNL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top
>> Currently unavailable. Because they can't get it, or because Amazon
>> will no longer sell it? But don't despair:
>> https://revelationhealth.com/products/restore-magic-dirt-water-8oz-bottle
>> Only 30 dollars for 8 ounces. "Perfect for kids". More expensive ounce
>> for ounce than the Pet Rock. (But at least the Pet Rock knew how to sit
>> when commanded.)
>>
>>
>> BTW, that someone's Amazon review is associated with a Verified Purchase
>> does not mean the rater is not a plant, or he's not affiliated with the
>> product he's praising. All he has to do is buy one via Amazon and then
>> he can write a Verified Purchase review. All he needs is a bunch of
>> email addresses and he can do it over and over, and his parents,
>> children, etc, can do it too.
>>
>>
>> I haven't checked the iodine gargles or borax baths. Has anyone seen ads
>> or articles for them?
>>
>
>And tested by certified labs proving it contains significant levels of
>helpful lead and arsenic, from the landfill next to the source.

Paging Mr. Darwin...

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>
> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?

Numbers matter.

How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?

I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.

How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.

> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 12:43:01 PM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> >
> > Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> Numbers matter.
>
> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>
> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>
> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

I never said or implied that those two drugs would have prevented the
1000 deaths a day. But unless the two drug companies are lying about
the effectiveness shown in trials, they very likely would have significantly
reduced them. And nobody in this administration, Biden, Fauci, etc shows
any interest in what the hell is taking so long. if Trump were president,
the media would be all over it, they'd be bombarding him and his press
secretary with questions.

On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>
>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>
> Numbers matter.
>
> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>
> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>
> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>
>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.

Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 12:11:18 -0800, Bob F
<bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>
>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>
>> Numbers matter.
>>
>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>
>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>
>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>
>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>
>The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>
>Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.

There have onely been about 200 million people in the US plus a few
elsehere who have taken the vaxine. I'm going to wait until it's 400
million, to be safe.

On the other hand, dirt is GRAS, generally recognized as safe. I played
in the dirt for hours as a child and it didn't hurt me.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 12:11:18 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>
>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>
>> Numbers matter.
>>
>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>
>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>
>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>
>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>
>The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>
>Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.

With all of these vaccines and treatments for this disease, when are
we going to relax and get on with our lives?

On 12/3/2021 1:57 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 12:11:18 -0800, Bob F
> <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>
>>> Numbers matter.
>>>
>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>
>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>
>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>
>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>
>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>
>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>
> There have onely been about 200 million people in the US plus a few
> elsehere who have taken the vaxine. I'm going to wait until it's 400
> million, to be safe.
>
> On the other hand, dirt is GRAS, generally recognized as safe. I played
> in the dirt for hours as a child and it didn't hurt me.
>

It is now reported that Omicron is 3 timeS as likely to cause Covid
re-infections as Delta.

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> >>
> >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> >
> > Numbers matter.
> >
> > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> >
> > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> >
> > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> >
> >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>
> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.

Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
people.

But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > >
> > > Numbers matter.
> > >
> > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > >
> > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > >
> > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > >
> > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> >
> > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> people.
>
> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.

Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
of the Omicron variant?

Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?

(Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:51:37 AM UTC-6, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > > >
> > > > Numbers matter.
> > > >
> > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > > >
> > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > > >
> > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> > >
> > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> > people.
> >
> > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> of the Omicron variant?
>
> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>
> (Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)

Omicron hasn't killed anyone yet as far as the smart people know. I've seen references to
the common cold.
<https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-infections-south-africa/2021/12/03/id/1047293/>

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 17:33:56 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/3/2021 1:57 PM, micky wrote:
>> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 12:11:18 -0800, Bob F
>> <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>>
>>>> Numbers matter.
>>>>
>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>>
>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>>
>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>>
>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>>
>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>>
>> There have onely been about 200 million people in the US plus a few
>> elsehere who have taken the vaxine. I'm going to wait until it's 400
>> million, to be safe.
>>
>> On the other hand, dirt is GRAS, generally recognized as safe. I played
>> in the dirt for hours as a child and it didn't hurt me.
>>
>
>
>It is now reported that Omicron is 3 timeS as likely to cause Covid
>re-infections as Delta.

Nobody ever tuned in at 11 to hear things would be OK.

On 12/4/2021 7:51 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>>
>>>> Numbers matter.
>>>>
>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>>
>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>>
>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>>
>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
>> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
>> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
>> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
>> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
>> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
>> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
>> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
>> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
>> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
>> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
>> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
>> people.
>>
>> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
>> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
>> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
>> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
>
> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> of the Omicron variant?
>
> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>
> (Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)
>

A recent study in South Africa indicated that the Omicron covid
increases the chance of previously infected people getting re-infected
by 3X, FWIW.

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 1:00:24 PM UTC-5, dean...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:51:37 AM UTC-6, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > > > >
> > > > > Numbers matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > > > >
> > > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > > > >
> > > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> > > >
> > > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> > > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> > > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> > > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> > > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> > > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> > > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> > > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> > > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> > > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> > > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> > > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> > > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> > > people.
> > >
> > > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> > > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> > > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> > > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> > Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> > of the Omicron variant?
> >
> > Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
> >
> > (Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)
> Omicron hasn't killed anyone yet as far as the smart people know. I've seen references to
> the common cold.
> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-infections-south-africa/2021/12/03/id/1047293/>

I've seen references that omicron resembles the coronavirus that causes
the common cold in that it's more infectious.

<https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-variant-may-have-picked-up-piece-common-cold-virus-2021-12-03/>

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > > >
> > > > Numbers matter.
> > > >
> > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > > >
> > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > > >
> > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> > >
> > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> > people.
> >
> > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> of the Omicron variant?

Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.

>
> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?

IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.

>
> (Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 06:23:44 -0800 (PST), trader_4
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>> > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>> > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>> > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>> > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>> > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>> > > >
>> > > > Numbers matter.
>> > > >
>> > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>> > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>> > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>> > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>> > > >
>> > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>> > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>> > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>> > > >
>> > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>> > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>> > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>> > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>> > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>> > >
>> > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>> > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>> > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
>> > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
>> > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
>> > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
>> > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
>> > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
>> > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
>> > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
>> > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
>> > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
>> > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
>> > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
>> > people.
>> >
>> > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
>> > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
>> > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
>> > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
>> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
>> of the Omicron variant?
>
>Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
>looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
>
>>
>> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>
>IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
>Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
>works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
>than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
>for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
>instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.

Trader? Is Trader in there? Can I talk to Trader?

Now you are starting to think like me and question the "facts" we are
being told that don't seem to ever turn out to be exactly true.

I have no problem with the vaccine and if I get sick I will take the
new drug but I am done living in fear.

angelica...@yahoo.com <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 1:00:24 PM UTC-5, dean...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:51:37 AM UTC-6, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>> > > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> > > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> > > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce
>> > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the
>> > > > >> FDA and
>> > > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90%
>> > > > >> reduction in
>> > > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three
>> > > > >> months
>> > > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA
>> > > > >> doing?
>> > > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes
>> > > > >> so long?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Numbers matter.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in
>> > > > > FDA
>> > > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the
>> > > > > fact
>> > > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm
>> > > > > hearing
>> > > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>> > > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame
>> > > > > that entire
>> > > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>> > > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it
>> > > > >> and the
>> > > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and
>> > > > >> ivermectin.
>> > > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early
>> > > > next
>> > > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and
>> > > > Pfizer by 85%.
>> > > >
>> > > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these
>> > > > that
>> > > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven
>> > > > safe.
>> > > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from
>> > > either
>> > > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The
>> > > anti-vaxer
>> > > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D.
>> > > That was
>> > > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour
>> > > about
>> > > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could
>> > > have
>> > > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same
>> > > old thing
>> > > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D
>> > > insufficiency is
>> > > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies
>> > > that show
>> > > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and
>> > > ignore the
>> > > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may
>> > > help,
>> > > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical
>> > > enough. They
>> > > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is
>> > > needlessly killing
>> > > people.
>> > >
>> > > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck
>> > > drug,
>> > > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they
>> > > are
>> > > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together
>> > > with
>> > > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to
>> > > normal.
>> > Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
>> > of the Omicron variant?
>> >
>> > Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>> >
>> > (Asking for a friend, but still getting boosted next week.)

>> Omicron hasn't killed anyone yet as far as the smart people know.
>> I've seen references to the common cold.
>> <https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-omicron-infections-south-africa/2021/12/03/id/1047293/>
>
> I've seen references that omicron resembles the coronavirus that causes
> the common cold in that it's more infectious.

There is no "the coronavirus that causes the common cold"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold

> <https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-variant-may-have-picked-up-piece-common-cold-virus-2021-12-03/>

That’s just one of the 50 mutations seen with omicron.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > > > >
> > > > > Numbers matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > > > >
> > > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > > > >
> > > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> > > >
> > > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> > > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> > > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> > > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> > > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> > > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> > > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> > > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> > > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> > > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> > > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> > > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> > > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> > > people.
> > >
> > > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> > > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> > > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> > > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> > Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> > of the Omicron variant?
> Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
> looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
> >
> > Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
> IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.

Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?

That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.

If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.

The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:

Are the current treatments good enough?
If not, when will the new ones be ready?

IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.

> Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
> works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
> than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
> for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
> instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.

That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
current mutation. Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
administration can be blamed for.

On 12/5/2021 12:01 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>>>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Numbers matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>>>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>>>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>>>> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
>>>> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
>>>> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
>>>> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
>>>> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
>>>> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
>>>> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
>>>> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
>>>> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
>>>> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
>>>> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
>>>> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
>>>> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
>>>> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
>>>> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
>>> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
>>> of the Omicron variant?
>> Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
>> looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
>>>
>>> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>> IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
>
> Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
> treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?
>
> That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
> No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
> some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.
>
> If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
> administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
> responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
> to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.
>
> The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
> looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:
>
> Are the current treatments good enough?
> If not, when will the new ones be ready?
>
> IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.
>
>> Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
>> works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
>> than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
>> for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
>> instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.

Like you have no clue what their interests are, clearly.

How about 5X?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-do-vaccines-protect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity

Or 36X hospitalizations or 28X deaths?

https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

>
> That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
> the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
> current mutation. Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
> known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
> administration can be blamed for.
>

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 11:09:51 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 12:01 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> >> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> >>>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> >>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> >>>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> >>>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> >>>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> >>>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Numbers matter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> >>>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> >>>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> >>>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> >>>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> >>>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> >>>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> >>>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> >>>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> >>>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> >>>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> >>>> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> >>>> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> >>>> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> >>>> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> >>>> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> >>>> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> >>>> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> >>>> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> >>>> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> >>>> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> >>>> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> >>>> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> >>>> people.
> >>>>
> >>>> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> >>>> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> >>>> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> >>>> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> >>> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> >>> of the Omicron variant?
> >> Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
> >> looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
> >>>
> >>> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
> >> IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
> >
> > Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
> > treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?
> >
> > That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
> > No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
> > some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.
> >
> > If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
> > administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
> > responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
> > to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.
> >
> > The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
> > looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:
> >
> > Are the current treatments good enough?
> > If not, when will the new ones be ready?
> >
> > IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.
> >
> >> Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
> >> works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
> >> than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
> >> for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
> >> instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.
> Like you have no clue what their interests are, clearly.
>
> How about 5X?
>
> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-do-vaccines-protect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity
>
> Or 36X hospitalizations or 28X deaths?
>
> https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx
> >
> > That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
> > the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
> > current mutation. Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
> > known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
> > administration can be blamed for.
> >

Who are you responding to?

On 12/5/2021 8:44 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 11:09:51 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>> On 12/5/2021 12:01 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>>>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>>>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>>>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>>>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Numbers matter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>>>>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>>>>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>>>>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>>>>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>>>>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>>>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>>>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>>>>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>>>>>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>>>>>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>>>>>> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
>>>>>> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
>>>>>> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
>>>>>> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
>>>>>> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
>>>>>> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
>>>>>> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
>>>>>> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
>>>>>> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
>>>>>> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
>>>>>> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
>>>>>> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
>>>>>> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
>>>>>> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
>>>>>> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
>>>>> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
>>>>> of the Omicron variant?
>>>> Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
>>>> looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>>>> IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
>>>
>>> Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
>>> treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?
>>>
>>> That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
>>> No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
>>> some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.
>>>
>>> If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
>>> administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
>>> responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
>>> to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.
>>>
>>> The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
>>> looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:
>>>
>>> Are the current treatments good enough?
>>> If not, when will the new ones be ready?
>>>
>>> IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.
>>>
>>>> Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
>>>> works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
>>>> than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
>>>> for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
>>>> instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.
>> Like you have no clue what their interests are, clearly.
>>
>> How about 5X?
>>
>> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-do-vaccines-protect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity
>>
>> Or 36X hospitalizations or 28X deaths?
>>
>> https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx
>>>
>>> That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
>>> the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
>>> current mutation. Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
>>> known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
>>> administration can be blamed for.
>>>
>
> Who are you responding to?
>

The paragraph you re-posted right above my response to it. Who did you
think?

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 3:01:36 PM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
> > > > > On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
> > > > > >> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
> > > > > >> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
> > > > > >> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
> > > > > >> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
> > > > > >> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Numbers matter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
> > > > > > approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
> > > > > > that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
> > > > > > most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
> > > > > > faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
> > > > > > amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
> > > > > >> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
> > > > > >> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
> > > > > The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
> > > > > year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
> > > > > won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
> > > > Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
> > > > party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
> > > > nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
> > > > a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
> > > > how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
> > > > avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
> > > > with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
> > > > correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
> > > > no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
> > > > rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
> > > > it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
> > > > have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
> > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
> > > > so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
> > > > as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
> > > > the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
> > > Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
> > > of the Omicron variant?
> > Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
> > looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
> > >
> > > Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
> > IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
> Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
> treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?
>
> That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
> No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
> some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.

You asked if we know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore, you didn't
specify that it had to be specific to new variants. So, yes, I would expect a
competent govt to know the effectiveness with Delta, which has been here
for 9 months now. From what I see, other countries like Israel are on top of it
and are collecting and putting out data. The Biden administration is putting
out mandates, without scientific backup, eg mandating workplace vaccination
and refusing to even address the fact that people who had Covid have antibodies
and that might be good enough if they don't want to get vaccinated.

>
> If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
> administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
> responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
> to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.
>
> The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
> looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:
>
> Are the current treatments good enough?
> If not, when will the new ones be ready?
>
> IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.

> > Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
> > works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
> > than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
> > for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
> > instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.
> That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
> the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
> current mutation.

I did no such thing.

Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
> known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
> administration can be blamed for.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 20:58:34 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/5/2021 8:44 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 11:09:51 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2021 12:01 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 10:51:37 AM UTC-5, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 8:38:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:11:26 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/3/2021 9:42 AM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 9:27:53 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 2:45:51 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile I'm left wondering what the hell is going on with the FDA and
>>>>>>>>>> the two new drugs from Merck and Pfizer that showed 90% reduction in
>>>>>>>>>> hospitalizations and deaths? Merck went for EUA, must be three months
>>>>>>>>>> ago. They did all the testing, gave the data to FDA, WTF is FDA doing?
>>>>>>>>>> We have 1000 a day dying, what exactly is there to do that takes so long?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Numbers matter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How many of those 1000 deaths can be attributed to the delay in FDA
>>>>>>>>> approvals and how many of those deaths can be attributed to the fact
>>>>>>>>> that so many people aren't vaccinated by choice?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not giving the FDA a pass by any means, but from what I'm hearing
>>>>>>>>> most Covid deaths are happening amongst the unvaccinated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How much would that "1000 a day" number change if the FDA moved
>>>>>>>>> faster? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that you can't blame that entire
>>>>>>>>> amount on the Merck and Pfizer situation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why are there no updates on what or what isn't being done?
>>>>>>>>>> Sleepy Joe probably doesn't even know about it or remember it and the
>>>>>>>>>> crazy Republicans are more interested in hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
>>>>>>>> The FDA panel has approved the Merck pills, Pfizer will come early next
>>>>>>>> year probably. The Merck reduced hospitalizations by 39%, and Pfizer by 85%.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Funny about the people whining they are taking too long on these that
>>>>>>>> won't get vaccinated because the vaccines have not been proven safe.
>>>>>>> Who would those people be? Like I said, I haven't seen anyone from either
>>>>>>> party or the media saying anything about these two new drugs. The anti-vaxer
>>>>>>> nuts are still talking about hydroxy, ivermectin, and now vitamin D. That was
>>>>>>> a new one. One of the right wing radio hosts was ranting for an hour about
>>>>>>> how vitamin D is highly effective against Covid, how using it could have
>>>>>>> avoided most of the deaths. So I did a bit of Googling. It's the same old thing
>>>>>>> with these buffoons. You can find studies that say Vitamin D insufficiency is
>>>>>>> correlated to Covid outcomes. And then you can find other studies that show
>>>>>>> no correlation. The lying shysters just pick the ones they want and ignore the
>>>>>>> rest. Why? Because to go on the air and suggest that vitamin D may help,
>>>>>>> it could be a good idea to take supplements, etc, isn't radical enough. They
>>>>>>> have to turn it into a political conspiracy, that the Biden govt is needlessly killing
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it's good to see that the FDA panel has approved the new Merck drug,
>>>>>>> so FDA approval should be coming shortly. These new drugs, if they are
>>>>>>> as effective as claimed, could be a real game changer, which together with
>>>>>>> the vaccines could make this all manageable so we can get back to normal.
>>>>>> Were the claims of their effectiveness made prior to the emergence
>>>>>> of the Omicron variant?
>>>>> Yes, of course. But so far, despite all the media hype, the Omicron variant
>>>>> looks to be the mildest Covid so far, so it's very likely these drugs will work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we even know the true efficacy of any of the treatments anymore?
>>>>> IDK, I guess if we don't you should ask the Biden administration why not.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? You expect *any* administration to know how previously designed
>>>> treatments will handle a mutation that wasn't known at the time of the design?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't happen in any situation, be it medical, electrical, structural, whatever.
>>>> No one can predict the future. A solution is designed for what is known (and in
>>>> some cases, what can reasonably be expected) and then things change.
>>>>
>>>> If the current treatments aren't effective against Omicron, asking (blaming?) any
>>>> administration is a waste of time and energy. It's not the current administration's
>>>> responsibility to know "why" and it's not the previous administration's responsibility
>>>> to know "why". Oh wait...I know "why": Shit happens, that's why.
>>>>
>>>> The only questions that should be asked should be asked of the scientists that are
>>>> looking at/working on a treatment that is effective against Omicron:
>>>>
>>>> Are the current treatments good enough?
>>>> If not, when will the new ones be ready?
>>>>
>>>> IOW, there's no blame to be placed when the situation was out of *everyone's* control.
>>>>
>>>>> Like they have no interest at all in figuring out how well natural immunity
>>>>> works compared to the vaccines. If natural immunity is close to or better
>>>>> than the vaccines, then they'd have to explain why that isn't an alternative,
>>>>> for people who have had it to show test results showing they have antibodies,
>>>>> instead of trying to mandate the vaccines, which is failing.
>>> Like you have no clue what their interests are, clearly.
>>>
>>> How about 5X?
>>>
>>> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-do-vaccines-protect-better-than-infection-induced-immunity
>>>
>>> Or 36X hospitalizations or 28X deaths?
>>>
>>> https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx
>>>>
>>>> That's a totally valid point but also totally unrelated to asking (blaming?)
>>>> the Biden administration about why the current treatments don't work for the
>>>> current mutation. Sure, you can ask - and get a scientific answer (once it's
>>>> known) but it's certainly nothing that the Biden's or Trump's or anybody else's
>>>> administration can be blamed for.
>>>>
>>
>> Who are you responding to?
>>
>
>The paragraph you re-posted right above my response to it. Who did you
>think?

Actually, the right answer is trader_4, but you used a post from MM to
do it, rather than the post from trader_4. I have no idea why people do
that, but fortunately it seems to be limited to just a few folks in this
group. In the other groups that I subscribe to, I don't see that.