"Sand is a professor at Tel Aviv university and author of The Invention of the Jewish People. His quiet earthquake of a book is shaking historical faith in the link between Judaism and Israel.
....
The modern Israeli state was founded on belief in a "Jewish people" as a unified nation, established in biblical times, scattered by Rome, stranded in exile for 2,000 years, then returned to the Promised Land.

But according to Sand there was no exile, and as he seeks to prove by dense forensic archaeological and historical analysis, it is meaningless to talk today about a "people of Israel". At least not if by that you mean the Jews.

It is hard to imagine a more fundamental challenge to the idea of a modern Jewish state on the site of ancient Judea.
....
In Sand's analysis, early Judaism pioneered the art of conversion. To spread as quickly as it did, Christianity must have exploited an earlier Jewish expansion.

Later, another mass conversion took place in the Black Sea kingdom of Khazaria towards the end of the eighth ­century. The Khazar elite acquired Judaism as a form of diplomatic neutrality in the surrounding clashes between Christianity and Islam. That conversion gradually scooped up people of mixed ethnic ­backgrounds who are, Sand believes, the main ancestors of Eastern European Jewry.

The Khazar conversion is no revelation. It was the basis for a 1976 book by Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe, which was reviled, then ignored, by mainstream Zionism. But the Jewish Khazars were recognised by early Zionist historians, albeit as a numerically insignificant curiosity. They were only dropped from the story in the 1960s. After the 1967 Six Day War, to be precise.

Sand notes that the disappearance of converts from Israeli history books coincides with increased occupation of Arab land. This is not a conspiracy theory. Zionism was a typical modern nation-building exercise. It followed the pattern by which most European national identities were forged in the 19th and 20th centuries. Intellectual elites propagated myths that met "the deep ideological needs of their culture and their society". In Israel's case that was the myth of ethnic origins in a biblical kingdom based around Jerusalem."
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/17/shlomo-sand-judaism-israel-jewish

ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> […]
> The Khazar conversion is no revelation. It was the basis for a 1976
> book by Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe, which was reviled, then
> ignored, by mainstream Zionism. But the Jewish Khazars were recognised
> by early Zionist historians, albeit as a numerically insignificant
> curiosity. They were only dropped from the story in the 1960s. After
> the 1967 Six Day War, to be precise.
>
> Sand notes that the disappearance of converts from Israeli history
> books coincides with increased occupation of Arab land. This is not a
> conspiracy theory. Zionism was a typical modern nation-building
> exercise. It followed the pattern by which most European national
> identities were forged in the 19th and 20th centuries. Intellectual
> elites propagated myths that met "the deep ideological needs of their
> culture and their society". In Israel's case that was the myth of
> ethnic origins in a biblical kingdom based around Jerusalem."
> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/17/shlomo-sand-judaism-israel-jewish

History is hard to predict. It is rewritten so frequently :-)

What makes it relevant *here* ?
Israel/Palestine is far away from China.
Does PRC need this (handy) excuse?

--
A. Filip
| If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith.
| (Albert Einstein)

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 10:44:54 AM UTC-5, A. Filip wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > […]
> > The Khazar conversion is no revelation. It was the basis for a 1976
> > book by Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe, which was reviled, then
> > ignored, by mainstream Zionism. But the Jewish Khazars were recognised
> > by early Zionist historians, albeit as a numerically insignificant
> > curiosity. They were only dropped from the story in the 1960s. After
> > the 1967 Six Day War, to be precise.
> >
> > Sand notes that the disappearance of converts from Israeli history
> > books coincides with increased occupation of Arab land. This is not a
> > conspiracy theory. Zionism was a typical modern nation-building
> > exercise. It followed the pattern by which most European national
> > identities were forged in the 19th and 20th centuries. Intellectual
> > elites propagated myths that met "the deep ideological needs of their
> > culture and their society". In Israel's case that was the myth of
> > ethnic origins in a biblical kingdom based around Jerusalem."
> > https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/17/shlomo-sand-judaism-israel-jewish
> History is hard to predict. It is rewritten so frequently :-)
>
> What makes it relevant *here* ?

Don't know the relevance to the PRC.

The parallel is between American 'City upon a hill' Exceptionalism and Jewish Chosen People
Complex. Both confer the sense of whatever they do, they can't be wrong. It is from God.
Instead, the world must change and adapt, or else.

In reality, there is no 'Jewish People' stranded in exile for 2,000 years returning to the 'Promised
Land.' And there is no 'City upon a Hill.'

> Israel/Palestine is far away from China.
> Does PRC need this (handy) excuse?
>
> --
> A. Filip
> | If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith.
> | (Albert Einstein)

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 10:26:19 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
> "Sand is a professor at Tel Aviv university and author of The Invention of the Jewish People. His quiet earthquake of a book is shaking historical faith in the link between Judaism and Israel.
> ...
> The modern Israeli state was founded on belief in a "Jewish people" as a unified nation, established in biblical times, scattered by Rome, stranded in exile for 2,000 years, then returned to the Promised Land.
>
> But according to Sand there was no exile, and as he seeks to prove by dense forensic archaeological and historical analysis, it is meaningless to talk today about a "people of Israel". At least not if by that you mean the Jews.
>
> It is hard to imagine a more fundamental challenge to the idea of a modern Jewish state on the site of ancient Judea.
> ...
> In Sand's analysis, early Judaism pioneered the art of conversion. To spread as quickly as it did, Christianity must have exploited an earlier Jewish expansion.
>
> Later, another mass conversion took place in the Black Sea kingdom of Khazaria towards the end of the eighth ­century. The Khazar elite acquired Judaism as a form of diplomatic neutrality in the surrounding clashes between Christianity and Islam. That conversion gradually scooped up people of mixed ethnic ­backgrounds who are, Sand believes, the main ancestors of Eastern European Jewry.
>
> The Khazar conversion is no revelation. It was the basis for a 1976 book by Arthur Koestler, The Thirteenth Tribe, which was reviled, then ignored, by mainstream Zionism. But the Jewish Khazars were recognised by early Zionist historians, albeit as a numerically insignificant curiosity. They were only dropped from the story in the 1960s. After the 1967 Six Day War, to be precise.
>
> Sand notes that the disappearance of converts from Israeli history books coincides with increased occupation of Arab land. This is not a conspiracy theory. Zionism was a typical modern nation-building exercise. It followed the pattern by which most European national identities were forged in the 19th and 20th centuries. Intellectual elites propagated myths that met "the deep ideological needs of their culture and their society". In Israel's case that was the myth of ethnic origins in a biblical kingdom based around Jerusalem."
> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/17/shlomo-sand-judaism-israel-jewish

"It is a young country. Many Jews see that as a weakness. The more insecure they feel, the tighter they cling to
the myth of an ancient mandate. But Israel's best hope is to acknowledge that its nationhood is invented, and
modernise even more. It must, Sand argues, reform itself so the state belongs to all its citizens, whether Jew or
Arab.

He admits that sounds utopian under current circumstances. But the alternative means Israel gambling its future
on the consolidation of a mythic "people" in their "ancestral homeland". That is 20th-century-style ethnic nationalism.
Many such projects have ended in tragedy.

ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> […]
> "It is a young country. Many Jews see that as a weakness. The more
> insecure they feel, the tighter they cling to the myth of an ancient
> mandate. But Israel's best hope is to acknowledge that its nationhood
> is invented, and modernise even more. It must, Sand argues, reform
> itself so the state belongs to all its citizens, whether Jew or Arab.
>
> He admits that sounds utopian under current circumstances. But the
> alternative means Israel gambling its future on the consolidation of a
> mythic "people" in their "ancestral homeland". That is
> 20th-century-style ethnic nationalism. Many such projects have ended
> in tragedy.

It has turned out pretty good as medium term strategy.
Very long term perspectives may be quite another story.
Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted (almost) two centuries [A].

I bet UK treated HK lease as a face saving legal fiction.
It has turned out otherwise.

[A] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem

--
A. Filip
| If built in great numbers, motels will be used for nothing but
| illegal purposes. (J. Edgar Hoover)

On Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 8:40:44 AM UTC-5, A. Filip wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > […]
> > "It is a young country. Many Jews see that as a weakness. The more
> > insecure they feel, the tighter they cling to the myth of an ancient
> > mandate. But Israel's best hope is to acknowledge that its nationhood
> > is invented, and modernise even more. It must, Sand argues, reform
> > itself so the state belongs to all its citizens, whether Jew or Arab.
> >
> > He admits that sounds utopian under current circumstances. But the
> > alternative means Israel gambling its future on the consolidation of a
> > mythic "people" in their "ancestral homeland". That is
> > 20th-century-style ethnic nationalism. Many such projects have ended
> > in tragedy.
> It has turned out pretty good as medium term strategy.
> Very long term perspectives may be quite another story.
> Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted (almost) two centuries [A].
>
> I bet UK treated HK lease as a face saving legal fiction.
> It has turned out otherwise.

Both American 'City upon a hill' Exceptionalism and Jewish Chosen People
Complex are Faith Based Fiction. Faith Based means objective reality check
regarding the process as well as the outcome do not apply. The only thing is
people's faith in the story.

In the US, its 'City upon a hill' Exceptionalism has enabled it to develop into
a tripartite state.

"This article is a critical examination of the dissimulation and the disaggregation of the state in the context of U.S. hegemony. The account builds on dual state theory which posits that alongside the “democratic state,” there exists an authoritarian “security state.” America’s post–World War II hegemony has been accompanied by the rise of a security state operating in a de facto state of emergency, ostensibly to combat global Communist/terrorist conspiracy. The term developed here to describe this phenomenon is exceptionism. Finally, this article examines the prospect of a supra-national deep state and theorizes about the implications of a tripartite state."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0095399715581042
>
> [A] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem
>
> --
> A. Filip
> | If built in great numbers, motels will be used for nothing but
> | illegal purposes. (J. Edgar Hoover)