On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:

[WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]

Possibly geographical.

<https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>

Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> >
> > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> >
> > Possibly geographical.
> >
> > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>
> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.

Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > >
> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > >
> > > Possibly geographical.
> > >
> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> >
> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.

> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.

Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.

--
Jerry Friedman

Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:14:42 UTC+2, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > > >
> > > > Possibly geographical.
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> > > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> > >
> > > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
>
> > Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.

Indeed. (I realized that right after posting but neglected to correct myself.)
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
>> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
>> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
>> > >
>> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>> > >
>> > > Possibly geographical.
>> > >
>> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>> >
>> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
>
>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
>
>Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.

But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.

To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:

> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.

"Technically" sez who?

Since when does a denominal verb need to have some sort of
"parent verb" it was orphaned by?

delouse
unhinge

Maybe you can't properly make a denominal verb _in French_?

On 22-Aug-22 16:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
>>> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>>>> On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly geographical.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>>>> looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
>>
>>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
>>
>> Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
>
> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.

Is that a shortening of "bunkum"?
>
> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
>

--
Sam Plusnet

On 2022-08-22 12:37, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 22-Aug-22 16:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
>>>> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
>>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Possibly geographical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>>>>>>
>>>>> looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>>>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up -
>>>>> but it actually means to refute it.
>>>
>>>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
>>>> "bunk" verb.
>>>
>>> Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
>>
>> But there is a noun use of "bunk":  nonsense.
>
> Is that a shortening of "bunkum"?
>>
>> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.

Yes. Follow the link.

--
“Happiness is having a large, loving, caring, close-knit family in
another city.”
— George Burns

Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 20:11:40 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 11:12:29 AM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:
>
> > Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> "Technically" sez who?
>
> Since when does a denominal verb need to have some sort of
> "parent verb" it was orphaned by?

It doesn't need to, but can have one:

---
An unpaired word is one that, according to the usual rules of the language,
would appear to have a related word but does not.[1] Such words usually
have a prefix or suffix that would imply that there is an antonym, with the
prefix or suffix being absent or opposite. If the prefix or suffix is negative,
such as 'dis-' or -'less', the word can be called an *orphaned negative*.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word
---

>
> delouse
Orphaned negative.
> unhinge
Ditto, in only one of the meanings of the word.

>
> Maybe you can't properly make a denominal verb _in French_?

Or not.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> >> > >
> >> > > Possibly geographical.
> >> > >
> >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> >> >
> >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> >
> >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> >
> >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
>
> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.

True, and some other "de-" verbs come from nouns--
defrost, dethrone, defuse, as well as modern horrors^W
things like "debone" and "deworm". But what Bebercito
said is still true.

--
Jerry Friedman was terred from writing that.

Le mardi 23 août 2022 à 02:27:50 UTC+2, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Possibly geographical.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> > >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> > >> >
> > >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> > >
> > >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> > >
> > >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> > But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
> >
> > To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
> True, and some other "de-" verbs come from nouns--
> defrost, dethrone, defuse, as well as modern horrors^W
> things like "debone" and "deworm". But what Bebercito
> said is still true.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman was terred

> from writing
Or maybe "to write"?

> that.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> >> > >
> >> > > Possibly geographical.
> >> > >
> >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> >> >
> >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> >
> >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> >
> >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
>
> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
>

"That's a bunch of bunk" - Oprah Winfrey

She thought nonsense comes in bunches!

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:46:51 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
>> >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
>> >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>> >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Possibly geographical.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>> >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>> >> >
>> >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
>> >
>> >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
>> >
>> >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
>> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
>>
>> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
>>
>
>"That's a bunch of bunk" - Oprah Winfrey
>
>She thought nonsense comes in bunches!

That's sour grapes.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 5:46:54 PM UTC-7, Dingbat wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Possibly geographical.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> > >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> > >> >
> > >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> > >
> > >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> > >
> > >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> > But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
> >
> > To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
> >
> "That's a bunch of bunk" - Oprah Winfrey
>
> She thought nonsense comes in bunches!

She used a thoroughly idiomatic expression in North American English.
I can't say whether it is used elsewhere.

What is your objection to "a bunch of bunk"?

bill

Dingbat <ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:55:49 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Possibly geographical.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#e
tymonline_v_18084>
> > >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> > >> >
> > >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up -
> > >> > but it actually means to refute it.
> > >
> > >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
> > >> "bunk"verb.
> > >>
> > >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> > But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
> >
> > To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
> >
>
> "That's a bunch of bunk" - Oprah Winfrey
>
> She thought nonsense comes in bunches!

You still have something between the bunches?

Jan

On 8/22/2022 11:12 AM, Bebercito wrote:
> S K a écrit :
>> CDB wrote:
>>> S K wrote:

>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]

>>> Possibly geographical.

>>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>>
>>>
looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.

>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up -
>> but it actually means to refute it.

If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
left; it's refuted.

> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
> "bunk" verb.

"De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.

You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".

Le mardi 23 août 2022 à 15:22:00 UTC+2, CDB a écrit :
> On 8/22/2022 11:12 AM, Bebercito wrote:
> > S K a écrit :
> >> CDB wrote:
> >>> S K wrote:
>
> >>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>
> >>> Possibly geographical.
>
> >>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> >>
> >>>
> looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>
> >> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up -
> >> but it actually means to refute it.
> If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
> left; it's refuted.
> > Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
> > "bunk" verb.
> "De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
> said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.
>
> You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
> meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".

But "debunk" as a verb doesn't have an antonym (i.e. also a verb)
"with the prefix or suffix being absent or opposite" (Wikipedia)
and accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
>> >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
>> >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>> >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Possibly geographical.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>> >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>> >> >
>> >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
>> >
>> >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
>> >
>> >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
>> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
>>
>> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
>
>True, and some other "de-" verbs come from nouns--
>defrost, dethrone, defuse, as well as modern horrors^W
>things like "debone" and "deworm". But what Bebercito
>said is still true.

>--
>Jerry Friedman was terred from writing that.

Good thing he wasn't also fathered.

On 8/23/2022 10:03 AM, Bebercito wrote:
> CDB a écrit :
>> Bebercito wrote:
>>> S K a écrit :
>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>>> S K wrote:

>>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]

>>>>> Possibly geographical.

>>>>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>

>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.

>>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it
>>>> up - but it actually means to refute it.
>> If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
>> left; it's refuted.
>>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
>>> "bunk" verb.
>> "De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
>> said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.

>> You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
>> meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".

> But "debunk" as a verb doesn't have an antonym (i.e. also a verb)
> "with the prefix or suffix being absent or opposite" (Wikipedia) and
> accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.

"Bunk" in the compund you are talking about is a noun. The fact that
there is a verb "to bunk" is irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that
"debunk" means "move to a separate sleeping arrangement".

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 07:34:14 -0700
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> >> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> >> >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> >> >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >> >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Possibly geographical.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> >> >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> >> >
> >> >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> >> >
> >> >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> >> But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
> >>
> >> To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
> >
> >True, and some other "de-" verbs come from nouns--
> >defrost, dethrone, defuse, as well as modern horrors^W
> >things like "debone" and "deworm". But what Bebercito
> >said is still true.
>
> >--
> >Jerry Friedman was terred from writing that.
>
>
> Good thing he wasn't also fathered.

I hope no-one will de-test me for posting that 'nigrate' should be seen to
be positive. Sadly, it seems to be mostly light that is amenable to
depolarisation.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 6:40:15 PM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 23 août 2022 à 02:27:50 UTC+2, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:55:49 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:12:29 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > > >> Le lundi 22 août 2022 à 17:08:49 UTC+2, S K a écrit :
> > > >> > On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > >> > > On 8/21/2022 10:12 AM, S K wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Possibly geographical.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
> > > >> > looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up - but it actually means to refute it.
> > > >
> > > >> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no "bunk" verb.
> > > >
> > > >Not with the relevant meaning, anyway.
> > > But there is a noun use of "bunk": nonsense.
> > >
> > > To debunk is to contradict the nonsense.
> > True, and some other "de-" verbs come from nouns--
> > defrost, dethrone, defuse, as well as modern horrors^W
> > things like "debone" and "deworm". But what Bebercito
> > said is still true.
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Friedman was terred
>
> > from writing
> Or maybe "to write"?
>
> > that.

I wasn't sure which one was better. "From" made what I was doing
a bit clearer.

--
Jerry Friedman

Le mardi 23 août 2022 à 17:06:41 UTC+2, CDB a écrit :
> On 8/23/2022 10:03 AM, Bebercito wrote:
> > CDB a écrit :
> >> Bebercito wrote:
> >>> S K a écrit :
> >>>> CDB wrote:
> >>>>> S K wrote:
>
> >>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>
> >>>>> Possibly geographical.
>
> >>>>> <https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_18084>
>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>
> >>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it
> >>>> up - but it actually means to refute it.
> >> If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
> >> left; it's refuted.
> >>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
> >>> "bunk" verb.
> >> "De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
> >> said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.
>
> >> You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
> >> meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".
>
> > But "debunk" as a verb doesn't have an antonym (i.e. also a verb)
> > "with the prefix or suffix being absent or opposite" (Wikipedia) and
> > accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.
> "Bunk" in the compund you are talking about is a noun. The fact that
> there is a verb "to bunk" is irrelevant,

No, that's the other way around: the fact that "bunk" can also be a
noun is irrelevant in terms of "debunk" being an orphaned negative,
as explained in the definition I copied elsethread.

> unless you are suggesting that
> "debunk" means "move to a separate sleeping arrangement".

No, because in that case, by definition, it couldn't be an orphaned
adjective since there's indeed a "bunk" verb that means "to provide
with a bunk or bed" (M-W).

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022, at 11:06:28, CDB posted:
>On 8/23/2022 10:03 AM, Bebercito wrote:
>> CDB a écrit :
>>> Bebercito wrote:
>>>> S K a écrit :
>>>>> CDB wrote:
>
>>>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>>>>>> Possibly geographical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>><https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference
>>>>>>#etymonline_v_18084>
>
>looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>
>>>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up
>>>>>- but it actually means to refute it.
>>> If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
>>> left; it's refuted.
>>>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
>>>> "bunk" verb.
>>> "De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
>>> said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.
>
>>> You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
>>>meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".
>
>> But "debunk" as a verb doesn't have an antonym (i.e. also a verb)
>>"with the prefix or suffix being absent or opposite" (Wikipedia) and
>>accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.
>
>"Bunk" in the compund you are talking about is a noun. The fact that
>there is a verb "to bunk" is irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that
>"debunk" means "move to a separate sleeping arrangement".

Has anyone mentioned fenestrate and defenestrate? They don't fit the
pattern. To fenestrate something is to provide it with fenestration,
which is to say windows, while to defenestrate something is to pass it
out of a window.
--
Paul

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 16:50:04 +0100, Paul Wolff
<bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2022, at 11:06:28, CDB posted:
>>On 8/23/2022 10:03 AM, Bebercito wrote:
>>> CDB a écrit :
>>>> Bebercito wrote:
>>>>> S K a écrit :
>>>>>> CDB wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> [WTF kind of word is "debunk"?]
>>>>>>> Possibly geographical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><https://www.etymonline.com/word/bunk?ref=etymonline_crossreference
>>>>>>>#etymonline_v_18084>
>>
>>looks like a dethaw = thaw type thingy.
>>
>>>>>> bunk = nonsense - so to debunk something should mean clean it up
>>>>>>- but it actually means to refute it.
>>>> If it's all bunk and you "clean up" the bunk, then there is nothing
>>>> left; it's refuted.
>>>>> Technically, "debunk" is an "orphan negative" in that there is no
>>>>> "bunk" verb.
>>>> "De" isn't always prefixed to a verb, but can mean "remove X, as SK
>>>> said: defrag, debone, debug, declaw, decrown, and so on.
>>
>>>> You may say that some of those second elements are verbs, but the
>>>>meaning of the compounds is clearly "remove <noun>".
>>
>>> But "debunk" as a verb doesn't have an antonym (i.e. also a verb)
>>>"with the prefix or suffix being absent or opposite" (Wikipedia) and
>>>accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.
>>
>>"Bunk" in the compund you are talking about is a noun. The fact that
>>there is a verb "to bunk" is irrelevant, unless you are suggesting that
>>"debunk" means "move to a separate sleeping arrangement".
>
>Has anyone mentioned fenestrate and defenestrate? They don't fit the
>pattern. To fenestrate something is to provide it with fenestration,
>which is to say windows, while to defenestrate something is to pass it
>out of a window.

My computer has been fenestrated.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:03:31 AM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:

> and accordingly matches the definition of an orphaned negative.

Which is a label for a category of things that is of no use whatsoever.

As is amply demonstrated by the humorous pieces listed at the end
of the Wikiparticle, an "orphaned negative" can be deorphaned at any
moment and without confusion.