https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html

In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress and erase their religious and cultural identity.

But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And how obscene..

bmoore <bmoore@nyx.net> wrote:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html
>
> In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a
> famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of
> thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death
> by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee
> their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through
> gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress
> and erase their religious and cultural identity.
>
> But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide
> at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And
> how obscene.

<irony> I am sure Israel and "impartial" NYT are ready to pave the way
to the unavoidable followup cases. </irony> IMHO PRC may be against
guilty verdict but embarrassing genocide accusations (by others)
directed elsewhere are quite another story. So free to promote attitude
"Let's go to The Hell *together* ". I sure your success is (almost)
guaranteed *here* .

IMHO it is not in PRC interest to allow Israel escape *easily* .

--
A. Filip
| Tax reform means "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow
| behind the tree." (Russell Long)

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 6:25:19 PM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html
> >
> > In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a
> > famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of
> > thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death
> > by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee
> > their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through
> > gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress
> > and erase their religious and cultural identity.
> >
> > But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide
> > at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And
> > how obscene.
> <irony> I am sure Israel and "impartial" NYT are ready to pave the way
> to the unavoidable followup cases. </irony> IMHO PRC may be against
> guilty verdict but embarrassing genocide accusations (by others)
> directed elsewhere are quite another story. So free to promote attitude
> "Let's go to The Hell *together* ". I sure your success is (almost)
> guaranteed *here* .
>
> IMHO it is not in PRC interest to allow Israel escape *easily* .
>

Looks like some US commentators have an OVERLY SIMPLE algorithm concerning Israel. Something like, "IF Israel, it must be MORAL." And accusations must be
dismissed as obscenity. Needless to say, Israel knows better.

What’s happening at The Hague isn’t political theater/obscenity. And Israel is "Taking the Genocide Case Seriously."

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/why-israel-taking-genocide-case-seriously/677191/

"South Africa dropped a bombshell on the international community in December, claiming in the International Court of Justice, the United Nations’ highest judicial body, that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. No doubt Pretoria, a longtime supporter of Palestine and in a deteriorating diplomatic relationship with Israel, had political reasons to bring what most Israelis view as an outrageous claim. But to dismiss the case as political theater would be a mistake.

Israel did not send a team of government attorneys to put up a defense in The Hague, or hire one of the leading members of the ICJ bar, merely because of politics. Rather, Israel understands the stakes: The ICJ’s ruling will influence how states, international organizations, and the public view not only the conflict in Gaza, but also Israel itself, and more broadly, the obligation of states to prevent genocide. The case could even encourage legal action against specific Israelis in courts worldwide.

The “rules-based international order” that the United States claims to defend is one where international courts not only matter, but dispense a kind of real-time justice, enabling the dispassionate language of law to clarify state obligations in a way that the political bodies of the UN cannot."

> A. Filip
> | Tax reform means "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow
> | behind the tree." (Russell Long)

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 10:05:13 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 6:25:19 PM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> > bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> > > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html
> > >
> > > In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a
> > > famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of
> > > thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death
> > > by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee
> > > their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through
> > > gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress
> > > and erase their religious and cultural identity.
> > >
> > > But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide
> > > at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And
> > > how obscene.
> > <irony> I am sure Israel and "impartial" NYT are ready to pave the way
> > to the unavoidable followup cases. </irony> IMHO PRC may be against
> > guilty verdict but embarrassing genocide accusations (by others)
> > directed elsewhere are quite another story. So free to promote attitude
> > "Let's go to The Hell *together* ". I sure your success is (almost)
> > guaranteed *here* .
> >
> > IMHO it is not in PRC interest to allow Israel escape *easily* .
> >
> Looks like some US commentators have an OVERLY SIMPLE algorithm concerning Israel. Something like, "IF Israel, it must be MORAL." And accusations must be
> dismissed as obscenity. Needless to say, Israel knows better.

israel deserves citicism. But it is silly to condemn Israel while excusing so much other bad behavior by other countries.

>
> What’s happening at The Hague isn’t political theater/obscenity. And Israel is "Taking the Genocide Case Seriously."
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/why-israel-taking-genocide-case-seriously/677191/
>
> "South Africa dropped a bombshell on the international community in December, claiming in the International Court of Justice, the United Nations’ highest judicial body, that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. No doubt Pretoria, a longtime supporter of Palestine and in a deteriorating diplomatic relationship with Israel, had political reasons to bring what most Israelis view as an outrageous claim. But to dismiss the case as political theater would be a mistake.
>
> Israel did not send a team of government attorneys to put up a defense in The Hague, or hire one of the leading members of the ICJ bar, merely because of politics. Rather, Israel understands the stakes: The ICJ’s ruling will influence how states, international organizations, and the public view not only the conflict in Gaza, but also Israel itself, and more broadly, the obligation of states to prevent genocide. The case could even encourage legal action against specific Israelis in courts worldwide.
>
> The “rules-based international order” that the United States claims to defend is one where international courts not only matter, but dispense a kind of real-time justice, enabling the dispassionate language of law to clarify state obligations in a way that the political bodies of the UN cannot."
> > A. Filip
> > | Tax reform means "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow
> > | behind the tree." (Russell Long)

bmoore <bmoore@nyx.net> wrote:
> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 10:05:13 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 6:25:19 PM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
>> > bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
>> > > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html
>> > >
>> > > In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a
>> > > famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of
>> > > thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death
>> > > by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee
>> > > their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through
>> > > gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress
>> > > and erase their religious and cultural identity.
>> > >
>> > > But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide
>> > > at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And
>> > > how obscene.
>> > <irony> I am sure Israel and "impartial" NYT are ready to pave the way
>> > to the unavoidable followup cases. </irony> IMHO PRC may be against
>> > guilty verdict but embarrassing genocide accusations (by others)
>> > directed elsewhere are quite another story. So free to promote attitude
>> > "Let's go to The Hell *together* ". I sure your success is (almost)
>> > guaranteed *here* .
>> >
>> > IMHO it is not in PRC interest to allow Israel escape *easily* .
>> >
>> Looks like some US commentators have an OVERLY SIMPLE algorithm
>> concerning Israel. Something like, "IF Israel, it must be MORAL." And
>> accusations must be dismissed as obscenity. Needless to say, Israel
>> knows better.
>> […]
>
> israel deserves citicism. But it is silly to condemn Israel while
> excusing so much other bad behavior by other countries.

<advocatus-diaboli> PRC may deserve (some) criticism. But it silly to
condemn PRC while excusing so much other bad behavior by other
countries. </advocatus-diaboli>

What makes Israel less guilty of genocide than PRC? AFAIK PRC have not
been formally accused *in legal sense* but even "informal" accusations
at high enough level should not be easily forgotten.
PRC may be guilty of genocide in legal (obscure technical) terms but not
in "mass killing" terms (common non legal understanding).
Israel causes mass loss of civilian lives which technically *may* fail
to be considered genocide in legal terms.

Hail the law of undesired consequences.

--
| Anyone who thinks UNIX is intuitive should be forced to write 5000
| lines of code using nothing but vi or emacs. AAAAACK!
| (Discussion on the intuitiveness of commands, especially Emacs)

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 9:53:57 PM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> > On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 10:05:13 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 6:25:19 PM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
> >> > bmoore <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> >> > > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/opinion/israel-hamas-war-genocide.html
> >> > >
> >> > > In recent decades, as many as three million people perished in a
> >> > > famine in North Korea that was mainly government-induced. Hundreds of
> >> > > thousands of Syrians were gassed, bombed, starved or tortured to death
> >> > > by the Assad regime, and an estimated 14 million were forced to flee
> >> > > their homes. China has put more than a million Uyghurs through
> >> > > gulag-like re-education camps in a thinly veiled attempt to suppress
> >> > > and erase their religious and cultural identity.
> >> > >
> >> > > But North Korea, Syria and China have never been charged with genocide
> >> > > at the International Court of Justice. Israel has. How curious. And
> >> > > how obscene.
> >> > <irony> I am sure Israel and "impartial" NYT are ready to pave the way
> >> > to the unavoidable followup cases. </irony> IMHO PRC may be against
> >> > guilty verdict but embarrassing genocide accusations (by others)
> >> > directed elsewhere are quite another story. So free to promote attitude
> >> > "Let's go to The Hell *together* ". I sure your success is (almost)
> >> > guaranteed *here* .
> >> >
> >> > IMHO it is not in PRC interest to allow Israel escape *easily* .
> >> >
> >> Looks like some US commentators have an OVERLY SIMPLE algorithm
> >> concerning Israel. Something like, "IF Israel, it must be MORAL." And
> >> accusations must be dismissed as obscenity. Needless to say, Israel
> >> knows better.
> >> […]
> >
> > israel deserves citicism. But it is silly to condemn Israel while
> > excusing so much other bad behavior by other countries.
> <advocatus-diaboli> PRC may deserve (some) criticism. But it silly to
> condemn PRC while excusing so much other bad behavior by other
> countries. </advocatus-diaboli>
>
> What makes Israel less guilty of genocide than PRC? AFAIK PRC have not
> been formally accused *in legal sense* but even "informal" accusations
> at high enough level should not be easily forgotten.

High enough level would not change the obvious lack of evidence. Hence
no global uprising against China. People, after all, are not dumb. It is not
their business to defend China. At the same time, not many, in and outside
of the US, really trust such US claim, however high level.

Of course, many US commentators would repeat each other and continue the lie
per their simplistic algorithm. Politicians would also invoke the baseless accusation
whenever politically expedient.

> PRC may be guilty of genocide in legal (obscure technical) terms but not
> in "mass killing" terms (common non legal understanding).

> Israel causes mass loss of civilian lives which technically *may* fail
> to be considered genocide in legal terms.

Whatever. People who watch and read news would remember the atrocity.

>
> Hail the law of undesired consequences.
>
> --
> | Anyone who thinks UNIX is intuitive should be forced to write 5000
> | lines of code using nothing but vi or emacs. AAAAACK!
> | (Discussion on the intuitiveness of commands, especially Emacs)