All leaders should be required to attend regular
meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
(alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
productive members of society.
--
--

On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 10:45:20 PM UTC, David P. wrote:
> All leaders should be required to attend regular
> meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> productive members of society.
> --
> --
Or all Voters should learn to be smart voters.
The following article describes the death of smart shoppers:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/02/online-amazon-shopping-informed-consumer-quality-control/673017/

If people cannot shop intelligently on items they use and consume on a daily basis, how could one expect them to vote
intelligently on people who make policy which effects is far more complex and would reverberate over time and place
unexpectedly.

As is, no candidate has to show that he or she has the ability to solve the country's problems big and small. One only has
to be better the other candidate, often in one's ability in collecting money from donors.

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:47:52 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 10:45:20 PM UTC, David P. wrote:
> > All leaders should be required to attend regular
> > meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> > more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> > of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> > (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> > productive members of society.
> > --
> > --
> Or all Voters should learn to be smart voters.
> The following article describes the death of smart shoppers:
> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/02/online-amazon-shopping-informed-consumer-quality-control/673017/
>
> If people cannot shop intelligently on items they use and consume on a daily basis, how could one expect them to vote
> intelligently on people who make policy which effects is far more complex and would reverberate over time and place
> unexpectedly.
>
> As is, no candidate has to show that he or she has the ability to solve the country's problems big and small. One only has
> to be better the other candidate, often in one's ability in collecting money from donors.

And then, it is the presses. The following is about New York Times but it is likely that the same could be said concerning
media on the other side of the political divide.

https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/12/14/when-the-new-york-times-lost-its-way

"Since Adolph Ochs bought the paper in 1896, one of the most inspiring things the Times has said about itself is that
it does its work “without fear or favour”. That is not true of the institution today – it cannot be, not when its journalists
are afraid to trust readers with a mainstream conservative argument such as Cotton’s, and its leaders are afraid to say
otherwise. As preoccupied as it is with the question of why so many Americans have lost trust in it, the Times is failing
to face up to one crucial reason: that it has lost faith in Americans, too.

For now, to assert that the Times plays by the same rules it always has is to commit a hypocrisy that is transparent to
conservatives, dangerous to liberals and bad for the country as a whole. It makes the Times too easy for conservatives
to dismiss and too easy for progressives to believe. The reality is that the Times is becoming the publication through
which America’s progressive elite talks to itself about an America that does not really exist."

On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 10:45:20 PM UTC, David P. wrote:
> All leaders should be required to attend regular
> meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> productive members of society.
> --
> --
Alcoholics attend meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous because they are the victim of their
vice. In contrast, politicians are, more likely than not, benefactors for play the game of politics.
They are the permanent state, or ruling class of America.

"As political analyst Michael Anton recently pointed out, the permanent state, or ruling class, in this country
has “captured everything, run everything, and get their way on everything.” And their appetite has grown with
eating. Dissenting from the program simply will not do. And so, the unrelenting message from the permanent
state to the people: Washington is ours, not yours.

The hold the permanent state and its adepts have on American life, particularly as it pertains to the formulation
and conduct of American national security policy, is seemingly unbreakable.. What we have ruling Washington is
our very own nomenklatura, and these elites are currently in the process—now quite far along—of consolidating
its grip on public discourse."

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-sources-of-american-estrangement/

ltlee1 wrote:
> David P. wrote:
> > All leaders should be required to attend regular
> > meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> > more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> > of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> > (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> > productive members of society.
> > --
> > --
> Alcoholics attend meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous because they are the victim of their
> vice. In contrast, politicians are, more likely than not, benefactors for play the game of politics.
> They are the permanent state, or ruling class of America.
---------------------------
Politics is a group activity; substance abuse, gambling, sex, overeating are individual activities.
The PEOPLE are the victims of the game of politics, but the PEOPLE outnumber the
politicians by about 4 or 5 magnitudes!
--
--

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 2:16:49 PM UTC-5, David P. wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > David P. wrote:
> > > All leaders should be required to attend regular
> > > meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> > > more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> > > of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> > > (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> > > productive members of society.
> > > --
> > > --
> > Alcoholics attend meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous because they are the victim of their
> > vice. In contrast, politicians are, more likely than not, benefactors for play the game of politics.
> > They are the permanent state, or ruling class of America.
> ---------------------------
> Politics is a group activity; substance abuse, gambling, sex, overeating are individual activities.
> The PEOPLE are the victims of the game of politics, but the PEOPLE outnumber the
> politicians by about 4 or 5 magnitudes!

Let me clarify. Politicians play the game of politics to benefit THEMSELVES.. Not the People.
You are certainly right that politicians are outnumbered by the people by about 4 or 5 magnitude.

But "the permanent state, or ruling class, in this country
has “captured everything, run everything, and get their way on everything.” And their appetite has grown with
eating. Dissenting from the program simply will not do. And so, the unrelenting message from the permanent
state to the people: Washington is ours, not yours. "

Who can really force them to reform themselves and remove "The Sources of American Estrangement" before
to late?

> --
> --

ltlee1 wrote:
> David P. wrote:
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > David P. wrote:
> > > > All leaders should be required to attend regular
> > > > meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> > > > more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> > > > of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> > > > (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> > > > productive members of society.
> > > > --
> > > > --
> > > Alcoholics attend meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous because they are the victim of their
> > > vice. In contrast, politicians are, more likely than not, benefactors for play the game of politics.
> > > They are the permanent state, or ruling class of America.
> > ---------------------------
> > Politics is a group activity; substance abuse, gambling, sex, overeating are individual activities.
> > The PEOPLE are the victims of the game of politics, but the PEOPLE outnumber the
> > politicians by about 4 or 5 magnitudes!
> Let me clarify. Politicians play the game of politics to benefit THEMSELVES. Not the People.
-----------------------------
Right. They make selfish decisions at the expense of others, either their own people
or people in other countries, and that's the cause of conflict! That's what we talk about
in the recovery meetings,...how we made those selfish decisions in the past and how that
caused our troubles,.....because we don't want to live that way any more. We want to live in peace!

> You are certainly right that politicians are outnumbered by the people by about 4 or 5 magnitude.
---------------------

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 6:47:32 PM UTC, David P. wrote:
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > David P. wrote:
> > > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > David P. wrote:
> > > > > All leaders should be required to attend regular
> > > > > meetings of Politicians Anonymous, to become
> > > > > more honest & less selfish, just as that other group
> > > > > of chronic troublemakers who play the blame game
> > > > > (alcoholics/addicts) has to do to become
> > > > > productive members of society.
> > > > > --
> > > > > --
> > > > Alcoholics attend meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous because they are the victim of their
> > > > vice. In contrast, politicians are, more likely than not, benefactors for play the game of politics.
> > > > They are the permanent state, or ruling class of America.
> > > ---------------------------
> > > Politics is a group activity; substance abuse, gambling, sex, overeating are individual activities.
> > > The PEOPLE are the victims of the game of politics, but the PEOPLE outnumber the
> > > politicians by about 4 or 5 magnitudes!
> > Let me clarify. Politicians play the game of politics to benefit THEMSELVES. Not the People.
> -----------------------------
> Right. They make selfish decisions at the expense of others, either their own people
> or people in other countries, and that's the cause of conflict! That's what we talk about
> in the recovery meetings,...how we made those selfish decisions in the past and how that
> caused our troubles,.....because we don't want to live that way any more. We want to live in peace!

If only and only if people allergic to power and wealth can become politicians.

> > You are certainly right that politicians are outnumbered by the people by about 4 or 5 magnitude.
> ---------------------