On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Brian J Goggin wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:20:13 +0000, John Davies
> <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
> >Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> >administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in this
> >sense derives from "the region about any point of the compass". I'm
> >certainly not aware of any general tendency to divide cities up into
> >fourths. I cannot in fact think of any English city which is said to
> >have "quarters", even though I grew up in one, Coventry, which dates
> >back to Saxon times.
> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations for
> the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city, esp.
> that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as the
> Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see Latin n.
> 5)."
> ===begins=====
> 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out quickly into the stretes and
> quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> parte and quarter of the same towne.
> 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v. iv, What newes with you in this quarter of
> the Citty?
> 1711 Addison Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in
> different Quarters of the Town.
> 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467 Rome is divided into
> fourteen rioni or quarters.
> 1820 W. Irving Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters
> of the city.
> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into a
> moldering quarter of the city.
> 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the
> Quarter share a studio.
> 1926 E. Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.'
> _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr. (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter
> did its best for hard-up students, and I was able to furnish my studio
> for next to nothing.
> ===ends=====
> I don't know that any of these refers to England. And of the few
> possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use "quarter" in quite
> the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".

(If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems to be East Harlem above 110th street, I guess?

On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> Brian J Goggin wrote:
>> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> [...]
>>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
>>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
>>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
>>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
>>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
>>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
>>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
>> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
>> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
>> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
>> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
>> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
>> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
>> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
>> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
>> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
>> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
>> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
>> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
>> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
>> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
>> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
>> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
>> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
>> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
>> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
>> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
>> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
>> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
>> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".

The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter

> (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> to be East Harlem above 110th street, I guess?
And what of West Side Story?

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> [...]
> >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> > to be East Harlem above 110th street, I guess?
> And what of West Side Story?

I never saw it.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> [...]
> >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
>
> The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
>
> > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
??? There is no Latin Quarter" in NYC. Spanish Harlem extends
down to 96th St. because that's where the New York Central
tracks go underground beneath Park Avenue (and run to Grand
Central Terminal.)

The Latin Quarter was a nightclub on the northern border of
Times Square, on 48th St. or so. It closded decades ago.
Presumably it was named for the neighborhood in Paris.

> > to be East Harlem above 110th street, I guess?
>
> And what of West Side Story?

The f8rst movie was filmed on the streets that were about
to be demolished to build Lincoln Center. The second, good,
movie seems to have mostly or entirely been made in the
studio, but it opens with an homage to the opening sequence
of the first movie, ending with a pan up a billboard announcing
the construction of Lincoln Center that was abut to begin on '
the site.

The Upper West Side is the blocks between Central Park and
the Hudson River. It begins at 59th St. Lincoln Center is from
63rd to 65th St. (and has attracted additional institutions on
adjacent blocks), so it's at the beginning of the UWS.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:55:37 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> > >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >> [...]
> > >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> > >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> > >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> > >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> > >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> > >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> > >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> > >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> > >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> > >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> > >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> > >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> > >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> > >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> > >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> > >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> > >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> > >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> > >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> > >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> > >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> > >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> > >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> > >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> > >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> > >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> > >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> > >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> > >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> > >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> >
> > The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> > distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> > winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
> >
> > https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> >
> > > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
>
> ??? There is no Latin Quarter" in NYC.

Then you should inform the Library of Congress in Washington that a Latin Quarter in NYC never existed. Here is their archive on the subject:

"It is true that Harlem probably has the greatest percentage of prostitution of all the five boroughs but the community itself is essentially a quiet, peace-loving, law-abiding place. Prostitution, to a great extent, is segregated to lower Lenox Avenue and that section of Harlem sometimes referred to as the Latin Quarter that extends from 110th street and Central Park North to 116th street, and from Fifth Avenue on the East side to Morningside Avenue on the West."

Library of Congress
-- https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh2.21011511/?sp=3&st=text

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:55:37 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> > > >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> [...]
> > > >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> > > >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> > > >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> > > >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> > > >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> > > >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> > > >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> > > >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> > > >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> > > >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> > > >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> > > >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv.. 21 Goo out
> > > >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> > > >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> > > >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> > > >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> > > >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> > > >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> > > >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> > > >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> > > >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> > > >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> > > >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> > > >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> > > >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> > > >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> > > >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> > > >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> > > >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> > > >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> > >
> > > The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> > > distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> > > winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
> > >
> > > https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> > >
> > > > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> >
> > ??? There is no "Latin Quarter" in NYC.
>
> Then you should inform the Library of Congress in Washington that a Latin Quarter in NYC never existed. Here is their archive on the subject:
>
> "It is true that Harlem probably has the greatest percentage of prostitution of all the five boroughs but the community itself is essentially a quiet, peace-loving, law-abiding place. Prostitution, to a great extent, is segregated to lower Lenox Avenue and that section of Harlem sometimes referred to as the Latin Quarter that extends from 110th street and Central Park North to 116th street, and from Fifth Avenue on the East side to Morningside Avenue on the West."
>
> Library of Congress
> -- https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh2.21011511/?sp=3&st=text

When is that "sometimes"? What is the date of that excerpt? The
boundaries specified there have nothing to do with today's Spanish
Harlem.

1938. It is from the introduction to a transcript of a narrative
elicited either by or from one Frank Byrd.

You'll need better evidence than that.

It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
If an area of Manhattan was called the "Latin Quarter," it was
exactly the same as the various parts of Jerusalem that were
known, and shown on many maps, as the Jewish Quarter, the
Armenian Quarter, and so on.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:47:31 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:55:37 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > > On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > > > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> > > > >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> [...]
> > > > >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> > > > >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> > > > >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> > > > >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> > > > >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> > > > >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> > > > >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> > > > >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> > > > >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> > > > >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> > > > >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> > > > >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> > > > >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> > > > >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> > > > >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> > > > >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> > > > >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> > > > >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> > > > >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> > > > >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> > > > >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> > > > >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> > > > >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E..
> > > > >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> > > > >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr..
> > > > >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> > > > >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> > > > >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> > > > >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> > > > >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> > > >
> > > > The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> > > > distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> > > > winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> > > >
> > > > > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> > >
> > > ??? There is no "Latin Quarter" in NYC.
> >
> > Then you should inform the Library of Congress in Washington that a Latin Quarter in NYC never existed. Here is their archive on the subject:
> >
> > "It is true that Harlem probably has the greatest percentage of prostitution of all the five boroughs but the community itself is essentially a quiet, peace-loving, law-abiding place. Prostitution, to a great extent, is segregated to lower Lenox Avenue and that section of Harlem sometimes referred to as the Latin Quarter that extends from 110th street and Central Park North to 116th street, and from Fifth Avenue on the East side to Morningside Avenue on the West."
> >
> > Library of Congress
> > -- https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh2.21011511/?sp=3&st=text
> When is that "sometimes"? What is the date of that excerpt? The
> boundaries specified there have nothing to do with today's Spanish
> Harlem.
>
> 1938. It is from the introduction to a transcript of a narrative
> elicited either by or from one Frank Byrd.
>
> You'll need better evidence than that.

Why? I'm satisfied with what's there.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.

Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.

One such post by Brian was made in 1999 when someone asked who
invented the phrase "Write your own ticket" and Brian replied:

"It was invented by Caleb T Whittington on 4 January 1879 when,
finding his local railroad station (in Rising Falls, Milwaukee)
deserted, he wrote his own ticket and embarked on his famous
round-the-world railway trip, about which he wrote so eloquently in
*Ticket of Leave*, published by J Pinkling & Sons, Buffalo, NY, in
1886. (The book is now, alas, out of print.) In Chapter 4, where our
hero finds himself in Dakota, he falls to musing on the means by which
he became a long-distance traveller; he realises that the phrase can
be applied metaphorically and resolves to use it as much as possible
--- starting with his own book, in each subsequent chapter of which,
except, oddly, Chapter 21, the phrase appears. The book was immensely
popular and the phrase caught on."

(Brian, culchie that he was, was not aware that "Milwaukee" is not a
state and there is more than one Dakota".)

Murray Arnow replied to Brian's post saying:

"Chapter 21 is the chapter most cherished by save-the-whalers. This
where Caleb visited Nantucket and lost his ticket. While searching for
his ticket, he was shocked to learn that baleen whales were being
slaughtered for the pupose of providing stays for women's corsets.
Caleb was overwhelmed by the whales' plight and stayed his search to
invent steel stays for the staid ladies. Soon after his invention,
Caleb returned to his hotel to find a smiling clerk holding a familiar
piece of paper. Caleb added another phrase tour language when he
exclaimed "That's the ticket!"."

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:47:31 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:55:37 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > > > On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > > > > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> > > > > >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > > > > >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> > > > > >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> > > > > >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> > > > > >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> > > > > >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> > > > > >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> > > > > >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> > > > > >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> > > > > >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> > > > > >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> > > > > >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> > > > > >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> > > > > >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> > > > > >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> > > > > >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass. v.
> > > > > >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> > > > > >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> > > > > >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> > > > > >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> > > > > >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> > > > > >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> > > > > >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> > > > > >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> > > > > >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> > > > > >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> > > > > >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> > > > > >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> > > > > >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> > > > > >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> > > > > >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> > > > > The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> > > > > distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> > > > > winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
> > > > > https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> > > > > > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> > > > ??? There is no "Latin Quarter" in NYC.
> > > Then you should inform the Library of Congress in Washington that a Latin Quarter in NYC never existed. Here is their archive on the subject:
> > > "It is true that Harlem probably has the greatest percentage of prostitution of all the five boroughs but the community itself is essentially a quiet, peace-loving, law-abiding place. Prostitution, to a great extent, is segregated to lower Lenox Avenue and that section of Harlem sometimes referred to as the Latin Quarter that extends from 110th street and Central Park North to 116th street, and from Fifth Avenue on the East side to Morningside Avenue on the West."
> > > Library of Congress
> > > -- https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh2.21011511/?sp=3&st=text
> > When is that "sometimes"? What is the date of that excerpt? The
> > boundaries specified there have nothing to do with today's Spanish
> > Harlem.
> > 1938. It is from the introduction to a transcript of a narrative
> > elicited either by or from one Frank Byrd.
> > You'll need better evidence than that.
>
> Why? I'm satisfied with what's there.

Oh, you type merely to waste time, and not to persuade or
convince people that what you write is worth looking at?

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:40:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
>
> Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
> caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
> here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.

Evidently you-lot were easily amused in those days.

> One such post by Brian was made in 1999 when someone asked who
> invented the phrase "Write your own ticket" and Brian replied:
>
> "It was invented by Caleb T Whittington on 4 January 1879 when,
> finding his local railroad station (in Rising Falls, Milwaukee)
> deserted, he wrote his own ticket and embarked on his famous
> round-the-world railway trip, about which he wrote so eloquently in
> *Ticket of Leave*, published by J Pinkling & Sons, Buffalo, NY, in
> 1886. (The book is now, alas, out of print.) In Chapter 4, where our
> hero finds himself in Dakota, he falls to musing on the means by which
> he became a long-distance traveller; he realises that the phrase can
> be applied metaphorically and resolves to use it as much as possible
> --- starting with his own book, in each subsequent chapter of which,
> except, oddly, Chapter 21, the phrase appears. The book was immensely
> popular and the phrase caught on."
>
> (Brian, culchie that he was, was not aware that "Milwaukee" is not a
> state and there is more than one Dakota".)

In 1886 there _was_ only one Dakota. Dakota Territory wasn't
split until the two states were admitted to the Union in 1889.

> Murray Arnow replied to Brian's post saying:
>
> "Chapter 21 is the chapter most cherished by save-the-whalers. This
> where Caleb visited Nantucket and lost his ticket. While searching for
> his ticket, he was shocked to learn that baleen whales were being
> slaughtered for the pupose of providing stays for women's corsets.
> Caleb was overwhelmed by the whales' plight and stayed his search to
> invent steel stays for the staid ladies. Soon after his invention,
> Caleb returned to his hotel to find a smiling clerk holding a familiar
> piece of paper. Caleb added another phrase tour language when he
> exclaimed "That's the ticket!"."
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

_Very_ easily entertained.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:44:32 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:47:31 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:27:21 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:55:37 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > > > > On 7/20/2022 12:27 PM, bruce bowser wrote:
> > > > > > > Brian J Goggin wrote:
> > > > > > >> John Davies <jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >>> Hmmm... I somehow doubt that it is really based on a former
> > > > > > >>> administrative sub-district. According to Chambers, "quarter" in
> > > > > > >>> this sense derives from "the region about any point of the
> > > > > > >>> compass". I'm certainly not aware of any general tendency to
> > > > > > >>> divide cities up into fourths. I cannot in fact think of any
> > > > > > >>> English city which is said to have "quarters", even though I grew
> > > > > > >>> up in one, Coventry, which dates back to Saxon times.
> > > > > > >> I think you're right about England. In OED, I find these citations
> > > > > > >> for the sense "A particular division or district of a town or city,
> > > > > > >> esp. that appropriated to a particular class or race of people, as
> > > > > > >> the Jewish quarter, etc.; spec. the Latin Quarter of Paris (see
> > > > > > >> Latin n. 5)." ===begins===== 1526 Tindale Luke xiv. 21 Goo out
> > > > > > >> quickly into the stretes and quarters [1611 lanes] of the citie.
> > > > > > >> 1541 Act 33 Hen. VIII, c. 15 The said sainctuarymen_enter in euery
> > > > > > >> parte and quarter of the same towne. 1602 Return fr. Parnass.. v.
> > > > > > >> iv, What newes with you in this quarter of the Citty? 1711 Addison
> > > > > > >> Spect. No. 31 _1 The several Shows that are exhibited in different
> > > > > > >> Quarters of the Town. 1756_7 tr. Keysler's Trav. (1760) II. 467
> > > > > > >> Rome is divided into fourteen rioni or quarters. 1820 W. Irving
> > > > > > >> Sketch Bk. I. 121 In the most dark and dingy quarters of the city.
> > > > > > >> 1864 D. G. Mitchell Sev. Stor. 214 A narrow court_which leads into
> > > > > > >> a moldering quarter of the city. 1919 W. S. Maugham Moon & Sixpence
> > > > > > >> xxvii. 117 Lots of fellows in the Quarter share a studio. 1926 E.
> > > > > > >> Hemingway Sun also Rises I. v. 37 _What do you do nights,
> > > > > > >> Jake?'__Oh, I'm over in the Quarter.' _1967 A. Ransome Autobiogr.
> > > > > > >> (1976) xii. 120 In those days the Quarter did its best for hard-up
> > > > > > >> students, and I was able to furnish my studio for next to nothing.
> > > > > > >> ===ends===== I don't know that any of these refers to England. And
> > > > > > >> of the few possibles (1711, 1820, 1864 ...), none seems to use
> > > > > > >> "quarter" in quite the sense found in "the Latin Quarter".
> > > > > > The first few examples seem to be exactly parallel to that usage: a
> > > > > > distinct location, from a direction, probably from the places the four
> > > > > > winds come from. OEtymDconfirms that, though not explicitly.
> > > > > > https://www.etymonline.com/word/quarter
> > > > > > > (If you're still looking at this) here in New York City, that seems
> > > > > ??? There is no "Latin Quarter" in NYC.
> > > > Then you should inform the Library of Congress in Washington that a Latin Quarter in NYC never existed. Here is their archive on the subject:
> > > > "It is true that Harlem probably has the greatest percentage of prostitution of all the five boroughs but the community itself is essentially a quiet, peace-loving, law-abiding place. Prostitution, to a great extent, is segregated to lower Lenox Avenue and that section of Harlem sometimes referred to as the Latin Quarter that extends from 110th street and Central Park North to 116th street, and from Fifth Avenue on the East side to Morningside Avenue on the West."
> > > > Library of Congress
> > > > -- https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh2.21011511/?sp=3&st=text
> > > When is that "sometimes"? What is the date of that excerpt? The
> > > boundaries specified there have nothing to do with today's Spanish
> > > Harlem.
> > > 1938. It is from the introduction to a transcript of a narrative
> > > elicited either by or from one Frank Byrd.
> > > You'll need better evidence than that.
> >
> > Why? I'm satisfied with what's there.
>
> Oh, you type merely to waste time, and not to persuade or
> convince people that what you write is worth looking at?

Those readers here who still do not doubt that a 1940s+ nightclub operating at 1580 Broadway near 47th Street comprises the only possible reference to NYC's "Latin Quarter", then *they* are wasting time. Not me.

On 22/07/22 04:49, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:40:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
>>
>> Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
>> caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
>> here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.
>
> Evidently you-lot were easily amused in those days.

Indeed we were. It was the wit and creativity that kept us faithful to
the group. The witty people - Brian Goggin springs to mind, as does
James Hogg - are sorely missed by some of us.

The catty spats are no substitute for read wit.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 2022-07-21 19:41, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/07/22 04:49, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:40:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
>>>
>>> Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
>>> caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
>>> here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.
>>
>> Evidently you-lot were easily amused in those days.
>
> Indeed we were. It was the wit and creativity that kept us faithful to
> the group. The witty people - Brian Goggin springs to mind, as does
> James Hogg - are sorely missed by some of us.

Quite.

Strangely enough, I rather miss the Bun. He used to give me great
opportunities to invent stories to answer his inane questions.

> The catty spats are no substitute for read wit.

--
ANAGRAMS
A DECIMAL POINT: I'm a dot in place.
ONE PLUS TWELVE: Two plus eleven.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 9:41:05 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/07/22 04:49, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:40:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>> It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
> >> Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
> >> caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
> >> here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.
> > Evidently you-lot were easily amused in those days.
>
> Indeed we were. It was the wit and creativity that kept us faithful to
> the group. The witty people - Brian Goggin springs to mind, as does
> James Hogg - are sorely missed by some of us.
>
> The catty spats are no substitute for read wit.

I didn't see any wit in the two paragraphs that were quoted.

There's more wit in one of CDB's little ripostes than in all
that verbiage.

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 8:50:27 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 9:41:05 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/07/22 04:49, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 2:40:15 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > >>> It seems to be Brian Goggin who made a strange assumption.
> > >> Brian was noted here for his "strange assumptions", many of which
> > >> caused severe leg-stretching to the readers of a.u.e. Brian posted
> > >> here when a.u.e. was populated by writers with wit and creativity.
> > > Evidently you-lot were easily amused in those days.
> >
> > Indeed we were. It was the wit and creativity that kept us faithful to
> > the group. The witty people - Brian Goggin springs to mind, as does
> > James Hogg - are sorely missed by some of us.
> >
> > The catty spats are no substitute for read wit.
> I didn't see any wit in the two paragraphs that were quoted.
>
> There's more wit in one of CDB's little ripostes than in all
> that verbiage.

Yet, who piled up more grant money here, huh buddy boy?