On 2022-07-09 06:00, CDB wrote:
> On 7/7/2022 4:58 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>> occam wrote:
>>>>> HVS wrote:
>
>>>>>> There's a woman in the news today -- her mother's a TV chef
>>>>>> of Greek Cypriot descent -- named "Antigoni". (Yes, with an
>>>>>> "i"; speak-it-and- spell-it, I guess.) It seems a bit creepy
>>>>>> to me to name your child after the offspring of an incestuous
>>>>>> relationship, but there ya' go. (I've not checked to see if
>>>>>> she has a sister called "Chlamydia".)
>
>>>>> I'll see your 'Antigoni', and I'll raise you a 'Huh'.
>
>>>>> Here's the winner of the Fields Medal (the highest honour in
>>>>> Mathematics) called June Huh. Hah! Not only is his name
>>>>> out-of-the-ordinary, his first name is a real gender-bender
>>>>> too.
>
>>>>> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/june-huh-high-school-dropout-wins-the-fields-medal-20220705/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> <Huh> is an English spelling attempting to approximate the
>>>> pronunciation of the common Chinese name transliterated <He> in
>>>> pinyin.
>>>
>>> I believe that I met someone of that name yesterday, however, being
>>> of Cantonese extraction, he spells it "Ho".
>
>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese names? A
>> few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they pronounced his
>> name as "Wong". I have known a few people who pronounced their name
>> "Wong", and they have always spelled it "Wong'.
>
> Unless there was interference from Cantonese, about which I know
> nothing, their name was probably "Wang" [wAN], but respelled to avoid
> the pronunciation [w&N] ("wang" rhyming with "sang") and its vulgar
> associations.

Ahh... that's a possibility I had not considered.

--
The best way to accelerate a Windows machine is at 32 ft/sec/sec.

On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Dingbat wrote:
>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>> occam wrote:
>>>>>>> HVS wrote:

>>>>>>>> There's a woman in the news today -- her mother's a TV
>>>>>>>> chef of Greek Cypriot descent -- named "Antigoni".
>>>>>>>> (Yes, with an "i"; speak-it-and- spell-it, I guess.) It
>>>>>>>> seems a bit creepy to me to name your child after the
>>>>>>>> offspring of an incestuous relationship, but there ya'
>>>>>>>> go. (I've not checked to see if she has a sister called
>>>>>>>> "Chlamydia".)

>>>>>>> I'll see your 'Antigoni', and I'll raise you a 'Huh'.

>>>>>>> Here's the winner of the Fields Medal (the highest honour
>>>>>>> in Mathematics) called June Huh. Hah! Not only is his
>>>>>>> name out-of-the-ordinary, his first name is a real
>>>>>>> gender-bender too.

>>>>>>> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/june-huh-high-school-dropout-wins-the-fields-medal-20220705/>

>>
>>>>>>>
<Huh> is an English spelling attempting to approximate
>>>>>> the pronunciation of the common Chinese name
>>>>>> transliterated <He> in pinyin.

>>>>> I believe that I met someone of that name yesterday,
>>>>> however, being of Cantonese extraction, he spells it "Ho".
>>>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese
>>>> names? A few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they
>>>> pronounced his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who
>>>> pronounced their name "Wong", and they have always spelled it
>>>> "Wong'.

>>> Chinese people named Wong don't pronounce it like Anglophones
>>> pronounce Wong. I once practiced the pronunciation of Putonghua
>>> with the help of a Tibetan from China. It too has <ong>.

>> There is no common word in Putonghua spelled "wong", according to
>> my C-E dictionary.
> ...

> So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".

Too wh^abortabort?

Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or less.
Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese, so you may be
right. I know narthing.

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:55:18 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > CDB wrote:
> >> Dingbat wrote:
> >>> lar3ryca wrote:
> >>>> Quinn C wrote:
> >>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
> >>>>>> occam wrote:
> >>>>>>> HVS wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> There's a woman in the news today -- her mother's a TV
> >>>>>>>> chef of Greek Cypriot descent -- named "Antigoni".
> >>>>>>>> (Yes, with an "i"; speak-it-and- spell-it, I guess.) It
> >>>>>>>> seems a bit creepy to me to name your child after the
> >>>>>>>> offspring of an incestuous relationship, but there ya'
> >>>>>>>> go. (I've not checked to see if she has a sister called
> >>>>>>>> "Chlamydia".)
>
> >>>>>>> I'll see your 'Antigoni', and I'll raise you a 'Huh'.
>
> >>>>>>> Here's the winner of the Fields Medal (the highest honour
> >>>>>>> in Mathematics) called June Huh. Hah! Not only is his
> >>>>>>> name out-of-the-ordinary, his first name is a real
> >>>>>>> gender-bender too.
>
> >>>>>>> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/june-huh-high-school-dropout-wins-the-fields-medal-20220705/>
>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> <Huh> is an English spelling attempting to approximate
> >>>>>> the pronunciation of the common Chinese name
> >>>>>> transliterated <He> in pinyin.
>
> >>>>> I believe that I met someone of that name yesterday,
> >>>>> however, being of Cantonese extraction, he spells it "Ho".
> >>>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese
> >>>> names? A few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they
> >>>> pronounced his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who
> >>>> pronounced their name "Wong", and they have always spelled it
> >>>> "Wong'.
>
> >>> Chinese people named Wong don't pronounce it like Anglophones
> >>> pronounce Wong. I once practiced the pronunciation of Putonghua
> >>> with the help of a Tibetan from China. It too has <ong>.
>
> >> There is no common word in Putonghua spelled "wong", according to
> >> my C-E dictionary.
> > ...
>
> > So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".

> Too wh^abortabort?
>
> Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or less.
> Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese, so you may be
> right. I know narthing.

I was wrong when I said there was a Pinyin surname "Wong". Now that
I've said that right, I think we can all agree.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:23:14 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 08/07/22 07:41, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 07/07/2022 9:58 pm, lar3ryca wrote:

> >> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese names? A
> >> few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they pronounced
> >> his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who pronounced their
> >> name "Wong", and they have always spelled it "Wong'.
> > But that's Wight, isn't it?
>
> The White Australia still had popular support in the 1950s. A prominent
> politician - who just happens to be a distant relative of mine - is on
> record as having said "Two Wongs don't make a white".

You do know that's the punchline of a joke about the Chinese
couple to whom the wrong baby is brought from the nursery
when they're ready to go home from the hospital ...

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:55:18 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
>> On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> > CDB wrote:
>> >> Dingbat wrote:
>> >>> lar3ryca wrote:
>> >>>> Quinn C wrote:
>> >>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>> >>>>>> occam wrote:
>> >>>>>>> HVS wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>> There's a woman in the news today -- her mother's a TV
>> >>>>>>>> chef of Greek Cypriot descent -- named "Antigoni".
>> >>>>>>>> (Yes, with an "i"; speak-it-and- spell-it, I guess.) It
>> >>>>>>>> seems a bit creepy to me to name your child after the
>> >>>>>>>> offspring of an incestuous relationship, but there ya'
>> >>>>>>>> go. (I've not checked to see if she has a sister called
>> >>>>>>>> "Chlamydia".)
>>
>> >>>>>>> I'll see your 'Antigoni', and I'll raise you a 'Huh'.
>>
>> >>>>>>> Here's the winner of the Fields Medal (the highest honour
>> >>>>>>> in Mathematics) called June Huh. Hah! Not only is his
>> >>>>>>> name out-of-the-ordinary, his first name is a real
>> >>>>>>> gender-bender too.
>>
>> >>>>>>> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/june-huh-high-school-dropout-wins-the-fields-medal-20220705/>
>>
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>
>> <Huh> is an English spelling attempting to approximate
>> >>>>>> the pronunciation of the common Chinese name
>> >>>>>> transliterated <He> in pinyin.
>>
>> >>>>> I believe that I met someone of that name yesterday,
>> >>>>> however, being of Cantonese extraction, he spells it "Ho".
>> >>>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese
>> >>>> names? A few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they
>> >>>> pronounced his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who
>> >>>> pronounced their name "Wong", and they have always spelled it
>> >>>> "Wong'.
>>
>> >>> Chinese people named Wong don't pronounce it like Anglophones
>> >>> pronounce Wong. I once practiced the pronunciation of Putonghua
>> >>> with the help of a Tibetan from China. It too has <ong>.
>>
>> >> There is no common word in Putonghua spelled "wong", according to
>> >> my C-E dictionary.
>> > ...
>>
>> > So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".
>
>> Too wh^abortabort?
>>
>> Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or less.
>> Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese, so you may be
>> right. I know narthing.
>
>I was wrong when I said there was a Pinyin surname "Wong". Now that
>I've said that right, I think we can all agree.

I'm confused. I know a woman (she's from Hong Kong, and speaks
Cantonese) who spells her surname in Roman letters as "Wong." Are
you saying she spells it wrong?

* Ken Blake:

> On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:55:18 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
>>> On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> > CDB wrote:
>>> >> Dingbat wrote:
>>> >>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>> >>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> >>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>> >>>>>> occam wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> HVS wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> There's a woman in the news today -- her mother's a TV
>>> >>>>>>>> chef of Greek Cypriot descent -- named "Antigoni".
>>> >>>>>>>> (Yes, with an "i"; speak-it-and- spell-it, I guess.) It
>>> >>>>>>>> seems a bit creepy to me to name your child after the
>>> >>>>>>>> offspring of an incestuous relationship, but there ya'
>>> >>>>>>>> go. (I've not checked to see if she has a sister called
>>> >>>>>>>> "Chlamydia".)
>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I'll see your 'Antigoni', and I'll raise you a 'Huh'.
>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Here's the winner of the Fields Medal (the highest honour
>>> >>>>>>> in Mathematics) called June Huh. Hah! Not only is his
>>> >>>>>>> name out-of-the-ordinary, his first name is a real
>>> >>>>>>> gender-bender too.
>>>
>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/june-huh-high-school-dropout-wins-the-fields-medal-20220705/>
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> <Huh> is an English spelling attempting to approximate
>>> >>>>>> the pronunciation of the common Chinese name
>>> >>>>>> transliterated <He> in pinyin.
>>>
>>> >>>>> I believe that I met someone of that name yesterday,
>>> >>>>> however, being of Cantonese extraction, he spells it "Ho".
>>> >>>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese
>>> >>>> names? A few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they
>>> >>>> pronounced his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who
>>> >>>> pronounced their name "Wong", and they have always spelled it
>>> >>>> "Wong'.
>>>
>>> >>> Chinese people named Wong don't pronounce it like Anglophones
>>> >>> pronounce Wong. I once practiced the pronunciation of Putonghua
>>> >>> with the help of a Tibetan from China. It too has <ong>.
>>>
>>> >> There is no common word in Putonghua spelled "wong", according to
>>> >> my C-E dictionary.
>>> > ...
>>>
>>> > So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".
>>
>>> Too wh^abortabort?
>>>
>>> Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or less.
>>> Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese, so you may be
>>> right. I know narthing.
>>
>>I was wrong when I said there was a Pinyin surname "Wong". Now that
>>I've said that right, I think we can all agree.
>
> I'm confused. I know a woman (she's from Hong Kong, and speaks
> Cantonese) who spells her surname in Roman letters as "Wong." Are
> you saying she spells it wrong?

It means she doesn't spell it in Pinyin. Which makes a lot of sense if
your language is Cantonese, because Pinyin isn't made for that.

Also, people are free to use non-standard transcriptions of their names.
The correct "spelling" of the name Wang/Wong is 王.

--
The trouble some people have being German, I thought,
I have being human.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.130

On 10/07/22 02:04, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:23:14 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 08/07/22 07:41, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 07/07/2022 9:58 pm, lar3ryca wrote:
>
>>>> Is there any standard transliteration for spelling Chinese
>>>> names? A few days ago, Yungshin Wang was on Jeopardy, and they
>>>> pronounced his name as "Wong". I have known a few people who
>>>> pronounced their name "Wong", and they have always spelled it
>>>> "Wong'.
>>> But that's Wight, isn't it?
>>
>> The White Australia still had popular support in the 1950s. A
>> prominent politician - who just happens to be a distant relative of
>> mine - is on record as having said "Two Wongs don't make a white".
>
> You do know that's the punchline of a joke about the Chinese couple
> to whom the wrong baby is brought from the nursery when they're ready
> to go home from the hospital ...

That may well be so, but it was also a statement that was made in
Federal parliament in 1947.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 10/07/22 02:24, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:55:18 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
>>> On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>> So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".
>>
>>> Too wh^abortabort?
>>>
>>> Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or
>>> less. Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese,
>>> so you may be right. I know narthing.
>>
>> I was wrong when I said there was a Pinyin surname "Wong". Now
>> that I've said that right, I think we can all agree.
>
> I'm confused. I know a woman (she's from Hong Kong, and speaks
> Cantonese) who spells her surname in Roman letters as "Wong." Are
> you saying she spells it wrong?

The different Chinese languages differ so much from one another that
what is normal in one region will be nonstandard in another.

I remember when a Hong Kong friend of mine, fluent in both Cantonese and
English, was nervous when she had to give a talk in Mandarin. The way
she described it, it was about the same as if you or I had to give a
presentation in Latin.

The writing system is so close to uniform across China that we can be
fooled into thinking that all those regions speak the same language.
They don't.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:23:29 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 10/07/22 02:24, Ken Blake wrote:
> > On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:55:18 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> >>> On 7/9/2022 11:31 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> >>>> So I was wrong when I mentioned a surname "Wong".
> >>> Too wh^abortabort?
> >>> Putonghua (ordinary speech) is what we call Mandarin, more or
> >>> less. Others have said that the form can be "wong" in Cantonese,
> >>> so you may be right. I know narthing.
> >> I was wrong when I said there was a Pinyin surname "Wong". Now
> >> that I've said that right, I think we can all agree.
> > I'm confused. I know a woman (she's from Hong Kong, and speaks
> > Cantonese) who spells her surname in Roman letters as "Wong." Are
> > you saying she spells it wrong?
>
> The different Chinese languages differ so much from one another that
> what is normal in one region will be nonstandard in another.
>
> I remember when a Hong Kong friend of mine, fluent in both Cantonese and
> English, was nervous when she had to give a talk in Mandarin. The way
> she described it, it was about the same as if you or I had to give a
> presentation in Latin.
>
> The writing system is so close to uniform across China that we can be
> fooled into thinking that all those regions speak the same language.
> They don't.

They write the same language, because they learn it as a foreign
language in school (even the vast majority whose native language
is a form of Mandarin).